Georgia Double Header - Scotlands last warm up games 31st August and 6th September

First topic message reminder :

So after a mixed bag in the first two games, we now face a difficult away trip to Tiblisi followed 6 days later by hosting the same team at home at Murrayfield.

With the travelling involved, a 6 hour flight apparently, as well as a Georgian team with a lot to prove playing in front of a crowd of 50,000, this ill no doubt be a serious test and an indication of what playing in a hostile environment in unpleasant conditions will be like. A dress rehersal for the Japan game in many ways.

So who does he play first up?

The squad is being finalised after the away game, but you would imagine that he is not going to want to waste any spaces on players that he has already made his mind up about.

He certainly is not going to risk any injured players, so that rules out Thompson, Skinner, Seymour for sure, along with the possibity of Taylor, Bradbury, Gray and we are not sure if Brown and Johnson will be fit either.

I am going to assume that none of them are ready to travel and have a stab at a team along these lines:

1. Reid
2. McInally
3. Fagerson Z
4. Gilchrist
5. Cummings
6. Wilson
7. Ritchie
8. Fagerson M
9. Horne G
10. Hastings
11. Graham
12. Hutchinson
13. Jones
14. Maitland
15. Kinghorn

Subs
Berghan
Turner
Nel
Toolis
Barclay
Price
Horne P
Harris

EWT Spoons wrote:

BigGee wrote:https://www.theoffsideline.com/rwc2019-winners-and-losers-from-the-toony-tombola/

I am sure a lot of this is speculation

Here is TOL selection, which is probably closer to what most of us would have picked.

I'd be happy with that selection.

Their starting side for Ireland of

S Hogg: D Graham, D Taylor, S Johnson, S Maitland; F Russell, G Laidlaw; A Dell, S McInally, W Nel, G Gilchrist, J Gray, J Barclay, H Watson, B Thomson.

Subs: F Brown, G Reid, Z Fagerson, S Cummings, J Ritchie, A Price, A Hastings, T Seymour.

Now that could be something special.

That team is too obvious, if supporting Scotland tells us anything it’s that Peter Horne will be starting blindside

123456789. wrote:That team is too obvious, if supporting Scotland tells us anything it’s that Peter Horne will be starting blindside

Agreed Numbers, he'll have his shoulder on his younger brother's backside too.

jimbopip wrote:

123456789. wrote:That team is too obvious, if supporting Scotland tells us anything it’s that Peter Horne will be starting blindside

Agreed Numbers, he'll have his shoulder on his younger brother's backside too.

Inside a trenchcoat

Selecting Horne over Hutchinson is like my old club coach picking the team captain to travel to a sevens tournament over me because he could down a pint!

It’s speculation I suppose but with Toonie in charge it is possible. Either he’s rolling the dice to try keep his job or he’s decided “sod it” and out out anyone he’s did a favour to !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49541590

Tom English tends to be on the money. Here are his thoughts!

Selecting Harris for his solidity in the same squad as Peter Horne is similar to to a story I was taught in RE at school in which Mark Bennett warns of not building house on the sand because it will fall. There's no point having an outside centre picked for his defence if your inside centre is doing his big autumn giveaway.

BigGee wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49541590

Tom English tends to be on the money. Here are his thoughts!

that article isn’t by Tom English?!

I think I'm going to have to make peace with Chris Harris being in the squad. How can Huw Jones and Mark Bennett have fallen so far??

I feel mark at least has a reasonable excuse. Plus he was hitting a decent run before he got reinjured. I have confidence he'll be back to decent form before the end of this season provided he doesn't suffer another injury. Also if Matt Scott hits his straps again we could have great competition.

There was one article I read that listed the centres we’ve jettisoned since 2015. It’s mental to think that Dunbar, Bennett and Scott are nowhere near the reckoning these days. Even more insane to think Bennett is now at best fifth choice outside centre. Whatever the decision is, it’s worthwhile remembering that in 2011 we literally had one Scottish professional inside centre and it was Graham Morrison. Now there’s Taylor, Johnson, Horne, Scott, Dunbar, McDowall just off the top of my head who I’d pick ahead of G-dog. Similarly, I’d put Jones, Hutchinson, Harris, Bennett, Steyn and Johnstone ahead of De Luca. Maybe not Grigg though.

To be honest, I would pick my partner's 13 year old pet dog as an international centre before Nich De Luca. She has no probs catching the ball ever, and will defend to the death if you try and get her to let go.
Two basic skills that Nick 'no-hands' failed to master.

I'm getting really nervous now about the possibility of Harris (28) and Horne (29 and 3/4) trumping Jones (25) and Hutchinson (23). Harris does look like he is playing his best rugby at the moment but I think at least one of Jones or Hutchinson should be travelling. My pick would be Jones. He has lost some form, but when you consider he was injured during the 6N and then had to fight off the in form Grigg and new boy Steyn at Glasgow, it seems a little unfair to give him a warmup game away in Nice with a 2nd string side vs a near full strength French side. Then he was dealt 33mins of broken play in Georgia where both sides were making a lot of substitutions and Russell was benched. Has he even played more than 10 mins with Russell at 10?

In my opinion, Jones is undoubtedly our best 13 in the modern era and has been rightly compared to BOD. He has accumulated 50 points for Scotland in 17 caps. Horne and Harris combined have accumulated 53 points in 51 caps. I've read a few articles mentioning Jones last scored against England in 2018. Well they've clearly forgotten the Scotland vs SA game as he played a big role in that close loss last Autumn, including a round the back pass to Maitland and the assist for Horne in the same phase of play. No try for him but a very good game which was less than 10 months ago.

Personally, I think he should be on that plane over Harris. On form alone, probably not, but which of the two players will still be wearing a 13 shirt for Scotland in 4-5 years time?

I want to see both Jones and Hutchinson. Fgs if we are it we need to be in it to win it and i cant see Harris starring in a QF against one of the big three. Also really hope we have 2 of Bradbury Thompson and Fagerson at no 8. Suspect Toonie will have to drop either Thompson or Bradbury on account of fitness and lack of game time

I would personally take Johnson, Taylor, Hutchinson and Jones, bearing in mind that Hastings can cover 12 if needed and Hogg can cover 13.

I have heard that Harris trains well, that he is physically fit and that he is a good one on one tackler. Lovely. Problem is that England have Jospeh and Tuilagi, Wales have JD2, Ireland have Ringrose and Henshaw, France have Fickou. I wont even start with the SH teams.

13 is the position for a danger man. Either a strike runner or creativity. Not since 2003 has a team won a World Cup with a non-entity at 13. Our game plan is founded on a loose attacking game, and we can't afford merely a steady eddy at 13. We need Hutchinson, Jones or Taylor. I hear the arguments regarding Jones' form, but Harris has frankly never had the form to lose.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I would personally take Johnson, Taylor, Hutchinson and Jones, bearing in mind that Hastings can cover 12 if needed and Hogg can cover 13.

I have heard that Harris trains well, that he is physically fit and that he is a good one on one tackler. Lovely. Problem is that England have Jospeh and Tuilagi, Wales have JD2, Ireland have Ringrose and Henshaw, France have Fickou. I wont even start with the SH teams.

13 is the position for a danger man. Either a strike runner or creativity. Not since 2003 has a team won a World Cup with a non-entity at 13. Our game plan is founded on a loose attacking game, and we can't afford merely a steady eddy at 13. We need Hutchinson, Jones or Taylor. I hear the arguments regarding Jones' form, but Harris has frankly never had the form to lose.

Very harsh - Greenwood was a class player.

The swuad is leaking out like a sive now

Jones, Hutch, Bradbury and Fagerson M all missing out!

BigGee wrote:The swuad is leaking out like a sive now

Jones, Hutch, Bradbury and Fagerson M all missing out!

I'll be really disappointed if that is true.

Not taking Hutchinson is madness. Not taking someone who can’t get past Nick Grigg to get a game for Glasgow, less so

bsando wrote:I'm getting really nervous now about the possibility of Harris (28) and Horne (29 and 3/4) trumping Jones (25) and Hutchinson (23). Harris does look like he is playing his best rugby at the moment but I think at least one of Jones or Hutchinson should be travelling. My pick would be Jones. He has lost some form, but when you consider he was injured during the 6N and then had to fight off the in form Grigg and new boy Steyn at Glasgow, it seems a little unfair to give him a warmup game away in Nice with a 2nd string side vs a near full strength French side. Then he was dealt 33mins of broken play in Georgia where both sides were making a lot of substitutions and Russell was benched. Has he even played more than 10 mins with Russell at 10?

In my opinion, Jones is undoubtedly our best 13 in the modern era and has been rightly compared to BOD. He has accumulated 50 points for Scotland in 17 caps. Horne and Harris combined have accumulated 53 points in 51 caps. I've read a few articles mentioning Jones last scored against England in 2018. Well they've clearly forgotten the Scotland vs SA game as he played a big role in that close loss last Autumn, including a round the back pass to Maitland and the assist for Horne in the same phase of play. No try for him but a very good game which was less than 10 months ago.

Personally, I think he should be on that plane over Harris. On form alone, probably not, but which of the two players will still be wearing a 13 shirt for Scotland in 4-5 years time?

Going forward? Oh yes.

Defending? Jackalling for the ball on the ground and winning turnovers? back in the day Bill McLaren would say that Mike Gibson was the best Irish player he had ever seen, and on of the best centres ever, to a large extent because as well as his attacking skills (which were sublime) he defended "like a small, forest animal rooting on the ground for the ball". I think if an attacker runs straight at Shug then the outcome is pretty predictable: Shug played in Saarf Effrika in his younger days and learned how to deal with players running straight at him. No, for me the biggest weakness in Shug's game is when teams run complex patterns. he tends to go all deer in the headlights and often gets caught flat-footed.

If BOD's attacking play had been no better than average he'd still have got into most Irish sides on the strength of his defence.
If Shug's attacking play was average he'd still be playing for a Saarf Effrikan club side.

With Shug the gamble always is, does he score or create more tries than he costs you. At the moment he can't buy a try.

BigGee wrote:The swuad is leaking out like a sive now

Jones, Hutch, Bradbury and Fagerson M all missing out!

Where are you hearing that Gee?

This means; Johnson- Taylor and Furra-Harris as centres and Dancer then Haircut as 10's.

All the usual sources on Twitter are saying it - Mark palmer especially.

You can to some extent understand Shug not going.

But to take neither Shug nor Hutchie is just madness. I am really dissapointed in him.

Our centres consist of:

1. Solid snd dependable
2. Injury prone and hardly match fit
3. Seriosly flakey
4. Quality IC

It is not exactly inspiring, is it?

Something tells me i'm going to be massively disappointed after the squad announcement.

Leaving out Jones on current form I can just about understand, taking Horne and Harris over Hutch in his current form seems totally mad, Ted.

If Fagerson and Bradbury are both missing out and we are presuming that Strauss hasn't done enough...where is our BR carrying option?

oh Gee.

Is this a new thing? A reader's contest? Match the player to the number? You'll need to give us more detailed breakdowns, that's all just too cryptic.

BigGee wrote:You can to some extent understand Shug not going.

But to take neither Shug nor Hutchie is just madness. I am really dissapointed in him.

Our centres consist of:

1. Solid snd dependable
2. Injury prone and hardly match fit
3. Seriosly flakey
4. Quality IC

It is not exactly inspiring, is it?

It is really, really disappointing. What should be a position of strength suddenly looks comparatively weak.

BigGee wrote:You can to some extent understand Shug not going.

But to take neither Shug nor Hutchie is just madness. I am really dissapointed in him.

Our centres consist of:

1. Solid snd dependable 13
2. Injury prone and hardly match fit mainly 12 has never lined up beside our first choice 12
3. Seriosly flakey 12
4. Quality IC 12

It is not exactly inspiring, is it?

Full tilt turbo charged batshitFinnsanity.

jimbopip wrote:oh Gee.

Is this a new thing? A reader's contest?  Match the player to the number? You'll need to give us more detailed breakdowns, that's all just too cryptic.

If I can work it out, I know you can - unless living in the land of the white stiletto has had a massive impact on cognitive ability  

1) Harris
2) Taylor
3) Horne
4) SJ (not sure on spelling of his surname)


Of course I may be a fecking eejit who has got it wrong

It was not to hard!

LondonTiger wrote:

jimbopip wrote:oh Gee.

Is this a new thing? A reader's contest?  Match the player to the number? You'll need to give us more detailed breakdowns, that's all just too cryptic.

If I can work it out, I know you can - unless living in the land of the white stiletto has had a massive impact on cognitive ability  

1) Harris
2) Taylor
3) Horne
4) SJ (not sure on spelling of his surname)


Of course I may be a fecking eejit who has got it wrong

And the winner of the Sybil Fawlty Mastermind Specialist Subject "Stating The Bleedin Obvious" prize goes to....

According to the Glasgow Warriors forum Matt Fagerson has already been spotted back at Scotstoun.

The lad is an immense talent and I hope he spends the coming season proving a point.

Harris and Horne over Hutch!

Down with this sort of thing!

And it’s not an ecumenical matter!!!

I have been to the mountain top and I have looked down into the valley....

Dancer pulls a hamstring after a dazzling first 40 against Ireland.
Taylor's knee pops out against Samoa.
Sam Johnson does a Strokosh against Grant Gilchrist's noggin celebrating his ninth try against Russia. (Johnson's ninth not Gilchrist, obvs)

The deciding match against the hosts sees Haircut-Furra-Harris in midfield.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/49563533

Jesus Feck

In
Horne
Harris

Out
Hutchinson
Jones

Also out
Strauss
Fagerson
Bradbury

alive555 wrote:https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/49563533

Jesus Feck

In
Horne
Harris

Out
Hutchinson
Jones

Also out
Strauss
Fagerson
Bradbury

I think this is perhaps more surprising than the midfield - are we going with Thomson as our only 8?

EST wrote:

alive555 wrote:https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/49563533

Jesus Feck

In
Horne
Harris

Out
Hutchinson
Jones

Also out
Strauss
Fagerson
Bradbury

I think this is perhaps more surprising than the midfield - are we going with Thomson as our only 8?

Wilson

EST wrote:Something tells me i'm going to be massively disappointed after the squad announcement.

Leaving out Jones on current form I can just about understand, taking Horne and Harris over Hutch in his current form seems totally mad, Ted.

If Fagerson and Bradbury are both missing out and we are presuming that Strauss hasn't done enough...where is our BR carrying option?

Obviously we don't need one, we play the fastest brand of rugby in the world don't you know?

We just run round teams defences because we're so so fast and that's despite picking a scrum-halve who likes to slow the game down to a snail's pace.

Not the decision I would have made. There's little point going over it though.  But if he's buggered it then he's buggered his career. It must be quite liberating being a relatively high profile figure in Britain currently knowing you can do pretty much anything ridiculous and still not be the biggest tw*t on the News.

RDW wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I would personally take Johnson, Taylor, Hutchinson and Jones, bearing in mind that Hastings can cover 12 if needed and Hogg can cover 13.

I have heard that Harris trains well, that he is physically fit and that he is a good one on one tackler. Lovely. Problem is that England have Jospeh and Tuilagi, Wales have JD2, Ireland have Ringrose and Henshaw, France have Fickou. I wont even start with the SH teams.

13 is the position for a danger man. Either a strike runner or creativity. Not since 2003 has a team won a World Cup with a non-entity at 13. Our game plan is founded on a loose attacking game, and we can't afford merely a steady eddy at 13. We need Hutchinson, Jones or Taylor. I hear the arguments regarding Jones' form, but Harris has frankly never had the form to lose.

Very harsh - Greenwood was a class player.

Greenwood wore 13 but played 12, for superstitious reasons. I was talking about Mike Tindall, whose only discernible skill was being big and a defensive "leader".

Horne and Harris. Utter and complete mediocrity.

I'm disappointed for Bradbury but I get it. He's struggled with fitness. Matt Fagerson must be wondering what more he needed to do. Certainly if raw effort and training well were enough for Harris and Horne. Fagerson showed up well.

I don't think the squad is particularly clever. I suspect when the dust settles on the World Cup there will be a distinct feeling of having gone backwards in the last 4 years.

Oh dear, that's a really disappointing set of midfield options.

Toonie probably thinks it's 'safe'. If you'd have said a year ago that Scotland's quickest try scoring test midfielder and the Guinness Premiership Young Player of the Season would miss out to Stodgy McHarris and Mister Dog's Chew Toy you'd have been dragged off to sit with Jim and his nurse.

I really think that Townsend has bottled this one and that's sad. Johnson and Taylor are a potentially excellent midfield but they cannot play every game.

It is a bit hard to be excited about this

So if Taylor who has played 50mins in 2yrs, and Sam Johnson dont score, the replacements certainly wont. Yes that bad. ffs centre was a position of strength. Not a position of weakness ;((

Someone really has lost the bottle badly here, shocking lack of confidence in the ability of potential match winning types such as Hutchison and Jones.. Dont know about anyone else but I want to see our best players, not the ones who are proven to be decent club players, but not international quality.

We really are not going into this with out best shot at winning are we??

On reflection I'm more worried about back row. One of our major failings the last few years has been lack of physicality and carrying on the pack. If you don't get go forwards your backs can't do anything.  Bradbury gives ball carrying and physicality in spades. Fagerson doesn't quite have the physicality but his athleticism and footwork gets him over the gainline.

I worry with Barclay, Wilson and Thomson as our 'big lads' we're jsut going to be running onto brick walls against Ireland.

I'm assuming our back row will be Barclay, Wilson, Ritchie, Watson, Thomson then?

McInally is a good carrier but neither props are particularly good carriers and the locks (assuming Gray and Gilchrist) are more tight carriers than getting over the gainline types.

So rugby pass was right all along!!!

All the doubters should applaud them now.

But in regards to the selection, Jesus wept.

We’re wanting to play the fastest brand of rugby and the two attacking centres of Hutch and Jones get binned for Harris and Horne!!!

Ok jones as been a bit poopy recently, but no less than Horne who has the hands of Dave Denton and the ball skills of Allen Jacobson

Hutch has been on form and attacks the spaces and he’s dumped for an all together dull Harris????

And the back row. Blade will need to play some big big games. Wilson is just garbage.

Bradbury is still coming back from injury so can’t really grumble there. Fagerson is still a bit underpowered for an international no 8 but hey, least he’s better all over than Ryan bloody Wilson!!!!

So a bit of a stale midfield and a back row with little firepower. Good luck getting yer high tempo game forced into teams such as Ireland and SA with that selection.

TT’s WC prediction, Scotland scrape into the QF where we’re humped by 20 by the blackness or the Bokke.

Stream for the official announcement >>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/rugby-union/49558976

Lost interest already. A chance to redeem himself and toonie is already well on his way to f-ing it up. I've not felt this down about scotland since robinson was in charge

Robertson in the Scottish Mail was trying to talk up the selection of Pete Horne on twitter this morning.

He said something along the lines that Horne was one of our best centres and deserved to be in the squad.

I replied that might be the case until he does another interception pass, which gathered a fair few likes from Scottish Rugby fans, including one from a certain David Sole!

That would suggest what his feelings are on the subject!

Any idea what time the announcement is?

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