The Ashes - official thread

[Soul Requiem]

First topic message reminder :

I don't understand why Buttler isn't hogging the strike here.

[VTR]

Exactly, Leach's batting actually embarrasses Denly, Bairstow, Woakes, Curran and Archer for their performances today. Just half the team then

[guildfordbat]

Cheapskate’s question from me as I’m going tomorrow - although there were no weather interruptions, we were still 8 overs down today. Is anything added on tomorrow?

[Pal Joey]

The Great Wall of Leach. Hats off to him.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Cricket is a weird game. Mitch Marsh is the player of the day after the Aussies wrongly put England in to bat on a decent pitch. England settle well then implode. Just as you think it’s a nightmare, Buttler tries to be Atokes and keeps them going till close.

England are favourites for the test with the bookies, which seems mad

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

If you’d have said at the start of the day Cummins, Hazlewood, Siddle and Lyon would only take 4 wickets between them all day...we’d all have taken that.

Bloody Mitchell Marsh ffs lads

[Pal Joey]

He bowled pretty well though. Got some swing and plodded away.
I saw earlier (think it was during his first over) the speed clock said 89 mph. Must be an error. More like 82-84 I'd say.

[compelling and rich]

is marsh know for getting good swing? he seemed to be getting loads where the others didnt. and does this mean we will get similar movement?

[guildfordbat]

Fair play to Marsh but as I just heard someone here say - if he's running through you, you've got trouble with your batting technique.

[Duty281]

Australia well in front, though Buttler has played the sort of counter-attacking hand that England desperately needed to stay competitive. But frustration that all of the top five got starts and didn't go big is the main feeling of the day.

Not surprised that the bookmakers have England favourites - they simply don't understand the sport. Who knows, though, another 20-30 runs and England might just get level with what Steve Smith is going to score on this!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

“Since Jos Buttler made his return to the England Test team last year the only England player to face more balls and score more runs than him is Joe Root; no one has a higher batting average than Buttler and no one has scored more fifties than Buttler. #Ashes”

We correctly derided Ed Smith, because the majority of his selections have been poo. But Buttler is one he got right, shame he lost form in the second half of the World Cup, because it meant he went into this series in no form, with no red ball cricket...not great preparation. He’s not played well, but also got some good deliveries (at Edgbaston especially), and of course was totally stuffed by Stokes for the run out at Headingley. Showed signs of form at Old Trafford last week, and has got back to near his best today.

Definitely a role for him in England’s test future...in what role is the big question ?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Two of Pope, Bairstow and Buttler? Bairstow needs to really focus on his game for a while. I’d have Jos ahead and think Pope deserves his go.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Two of Pope, Bairstow and Buttler? Bairstow needs to really focus on his game for a while. I’d have Jos ahead and think Pope deserves his go.

Personally (this is me), going to NZ (or our best lineup) this top 7 should be what we’re going with

1. Burns
2. Sibley
3. Crawley
4. Root
5. Pope
6. Stokes
7. Buttler (wk)

Really I have Burns, Root, Stokes and Buttler as definitely in, Pope too, then you have Sibley/Crawley/Denly/Bairstow and a few others fighting it out for the other spots. The way I see it is we should aim for a youngster to come in at 2 and 3, as long term we need to find fixes for those positions. Pope gets a go ahead of Bairstow at 5, Bairstow as you say I think needs some time away and if he finds form in the county game gets a go in the red ball stuff again next summer.

[VTR]

Agree that Bairstow has to go now. Buttler has gone miles ahead of him in the last two matches. There's no place for both, so Buttler it is keeping wicket per that top 7

[GSC]

Does Root as captain really work? Looks like a heavy burden at the moment though not sure there are other candidates

[JDizzle]

Two of Pope, Bairstow and Buttler? Bairstow needs to really focus on his game for a while. I’d have Jos ahead and think Pope deserves his go.

Personally (this is me), going to NZ (or our best lineup) this top 7 should be what we’re going with

1. Burns
2. Sibley
3. Crawley
4. Root
5. Pope
6. Stokes
7. Buttler (wk)

Really I have Burns, Root, Stokes and Buttler as definitely in, Pope too, then you have Sibley/Crawley/Denly/Bairstow and a few others fighting it out for the other spots. The way I see it is we should aim for a youngster to come in at 2 and 3, as long term we need to find fixes for those positions. Pope gets a go ahead of Bairstow at 5, Bairstow as you say I think needs some time away and if he finds form in the county game gets a go in the red ball stuff again next summer.

Northeast ahead of Crawley for me. I like the improvement Crawley is showing in FC Cricket (averaged 31 in D2 last year, 38 in D1 this year) and is only 21 - but I'd let him have one more year and tell him to start the season averaging 50 and he is right in the frame.

[Gooseberry]

Northesast doesnt play top 3 though does he?

If we were looking for a 4/5 grand ...but Popes kinda head of the pack for that. Its 2/3 that needs to be filled, and Sibley is where Burns was this time last year, and Crawley the next best / potential to be better opener available.

[Gooseberry]

Does Root as captain really work? Looks like a heavy burden at the moment though not sure there are other candidates

No and youre right the only candidates that are sure of a place in all conditions are Stokes and a tin of custard. Unfortunatly one is an inamiate object and the other is a bit of an ar se when drunk. Broad would tell you he should be captain Im sure, but it would only be a short term thing with him.

Roots said he wants to stay on as captain. Its a big thing for a new coach to come in and demote the only functional batsman for the rest of his team being rubbish. Lets not forget although his returns have dipped since taking in the captaincy hes still scored more than anyone else in that time, and is yet again getting stick for only getting 50 something.

[JDizzle]

Northeast has spent the season at 4 this year. But I'm not convinced there is a huge difference between 3 and 4, Root's contention was he likes to relax after captaining the side in the field for a bit longer - more mental than physical - and he has opened plenty in the past.

Plus Northeast has the proven 'Burns' like quality where has scored run over multiple seasons in the CC:

2019 - 930 @ 55 (Div 1)
2018 - 451 @ 25 (Div 1) - suffered a broken finger in April after an early 100 in the CC, so can kind of cut him some slack for one off year.
2017 - 1017 @ 51 (Div 2)
2016 - 1337 @ 84 (Div 2)
2015 - 1168 @ 47 (Div 2)

[alfie]

Didn't see all the days play but what I did has me wondering if England fans aren't being a bit too negative about it . Australia sent them in , kept their pace bowlers going all day - Lyon hardly bowled - and took 8 wickets despite dropping several catches. Top seven all got starts but only two have passed fifty : couple of rank bad shots true but also a few out to good deliveries ; and in key periods the main bowlers kept things very tight. All suggests to me that this isn't quite the road some are assuming. As Jos said after close of play he thinks it is a pitch on which you can be score runs when set but good bowling can also be rewarded. Three hundred - still possible - would perhaps be a decent score . OK , from 170/3 you'd want 400 ; but no one is calling this a great batting side . Neither are Australia : let us see how they bat on it.

As to the team makeup I am pleased to see Burns making another handy score. Still has work to do but he's looking like the most solid opener since Cook and has come out of this series better than many expected. Needs to work on combatting the short ball.
And Buttler at last did what he is presumably in the team for : mounting a fight back from the late middle order. Still seems peculiar to me to have a specialist bat coming in after the keeper ; but today it has worked. Is this a long term plan ? Maybe not (though today was a little distorted as Stokes' injury meant one bat short and everyone a place too high anyway) ...but some combination of the two JBs at six/ seven doesn't seem unreasonable provided they can settle a top five which at the moment consists of Root Burns and Stokes plus two question marks...
Anyway leave the team picking until this one is over. I think we could have a match on our hands provided Broad and Archer still have some petrol left.

And you have to love the determination of Jack Leach ! Pity he seems to be just a little short of true Test class in his main role as he has the character they need going forward...

[No name Bertie]

Jack Leach demonstrated his ability with his 92 as an England opener and night watchman when Ireland threatened to beat England in the single test before the Ashes started. He top scored for England.

[VTR]

I think the negativity comes from the fact we'd seen off Hazelwood and Cummins only to collapse to M Marsh whilst performing a series of Ravi Bopara impersonations

[KP_fan]

Was it Aus' day or Eng's?
I think more Aus's than Eng's for they erred ( or even blundered) putting Eng in and were staring down the barrel & inspite of Butler-Leac rear-guard could still be restricting Eng under 300.

From Eng's P.O.V they at-least have runs on the board...not a a lot but a reasonable amount & Unless Aus get a lead of upwards of 100...Eng would have their nose ahead.
and if Eng can get Aus to chase 250+ in the 4th inning...Eng will most likely win.

On the other hand I would believe Aus is likely to get a lead of 100+....and will most certainly do if for a change Eng do not get Smith early.

Some other observations....
Aus erred in leaving out Starc for Siddle who seemed to be lacking control that comes with match practise....but this mistake was cancelled pout by maligned Marsh's unexpected swing bowling bonanza.

Leach is a bloody thorn in the flesh of opposition with his dogged batting and one who you would love to have in the side.
and should the 250+ target scenario for Aus in 4th inning play-out...Leach would probably the one with most wickets in bowling out Aus.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

As has been the case all series, *if* we can get Smith out for a relatively human score, this 1st innings score looks alright - but, as has been the case all series, Smith will probably score a hundred with little to no fuss

[guildfordbat]

As has been the case all series, *if* we can get Smith out for a relatively human score, this 1st innings score looks alright - but, as has been the case all series, Smith will probably score a hundred with little to no fuss

Yep, I'll be interested to see at close quarters how the former Surrey second eleven player gets on today at his old ground. On my way now.

[Pal Joey]

* * Yes, surely he's due for a failure.

I heard some rubbish on the radio yesterday with Paine saying something like "Davey's been hitting them well in the nets." He didn't sound convincing enough to get me to change my tipping selection, however, like Dolphin, I omitted him yet again in the hope that he scores some runs.

Enjoy the day out there, Guildford. Don't forget the sunscreen, hat... and proper shoes.

[Duty281]

As has been the case all series, *if* we can get Smith out for a relatively human score, this 1st innings score looks alright - but, as has been the case all series, Smith will probably score a hundred with little to no fuss

Juicy tempter on SkyBet - Steve Smith to score 150+ in the first innings @ 7/1.

[dummy_half]

As has been the case all series, *if* we can get Smith out for a relatively human score, this 1st innings score looks alright - but, as has been the case all series, Smith will probably score a hundred with little to no fuss

Juicy tempter on SkyBet - Steve Smith to score 150+ in the first innings @ 7/1.

Well, he's gone past that once in 5 innings and fallen just short twice, so that looks generous.

Are they offering similar odds on Warner passing 15?

[Duty281]

As has been the case all series, *if* we can get Smith out for a relatively human score, this 1st innings score looks alright - but, as has been the case all series, Smith will probably score a hundred with little to no fuss

Juicy tempter on SkyBet - Steve Smith to score 150+ in the first innings @ 7/1.

Well, he's gone past that once in 5 innings and fallen just short twice, so that looks generous.

Are they offering similar odds on Warner passing 15?

Haha, unfortunately not. 10/1 that Warner makes a century though! Would need 100/1 to be tempted with that one...

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Dolph was saying somewhere was offering 11/4 on Broad getting Warner out again yesterday - might be worth a flutter...

[Soul Requiem]

Smith is the key yet again, get him cheaply and England are favourites. Vitally important that Root opens with Woakes and then uses Archer as first change, it blunts the attack too much doing it the other way round.

[eirebilly]

As much as I agree with you SR, I do not see Root opening with Woakes. Archer is Roots favourite right now and I feel Woakes will be wasted again.

[guildfordbat]

Phew, what a scorcher! Ground looks immaculate. A batting day for sure and then some - or so it should be.

[compelling and rich]

Phew, what a scorcher! Ground looks immaculate. A batting day for sure and then some - or so it should be.

enjoy Guildford

yeah looks perfect for batting unfortunately. ive took that smith 150 plus bet, hopefully i've cursed him (and not 149)

[eirebilly]

Have a great day there Guildford. Unfortunately I will not see any play today as I am travelling :-(

[robbo277]

Smith is the key yet again, get him cheaply and England are favourites. Vitally important that Root opens with Woakes and then uses Archer as first change, it blunts the attack too much doing it the other way round.

I'd definitely have Woakes and Broad opening, but if it is swinging early on I'd be tempted to bring Curran on first change.

If Mitch Marsh can get the ball to swing we should be getting our best swing bowlers into the action early and trying to run through the line-up.

Hold Archer back. Bring him on for a few four over spells and tell him to bowl quick.

Australia don't open with Cummins every time, and he's the best bowler in the world. We need to be more flexible with the new ball and bowling order - something we haven't really had to do with Anderson and Broad for so long.

[Soul Requiem]

I have the upmost admiration for Leach and how he goes about things, he should be above Archer in the order based on how they're actually playing.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Buttler does his best to hold an an end whilst Leach bats, but inside edges a Cummins delivery to go for 70. England still a few runs short of 300

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Gah unlucky that, inside edge onto pad, then just clips off stump.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Marsh getting considerably less swing than yesterday. Maybe the Aussies knew

[compelling and rich]

needed more there, cant see broad sticking around and even marsh isn't getting any swing this morning

[robbo277]

Normally we expect the new ball to swing more, but Marsh found swing with the old ball yesterday and not so much with the new ball today.

I'd still get one of the main swing bowlers on to open, but if it's not moving then I'd get Archer on at first change, rather than Curran as I suggested if it were swinging.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Well, if they needed it, luck comes with Australia today, Leach defends one down and it bounces up to knock his bails off

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Massively enjoying all the "why did Buttler play that stroke" takes, like he didn't make literally most of his runs yesterday batting with Leach, playing that exact way. Score the 6's without playing the attacking strokes Jos, jeez!

[eirebilly]

I would say that England are around 80 short of par here but they have runs on the board and that's all that matters.

Over to Broad now.

[Duty281]

Marsh gets five-for - his first Michelle in test cricket. Truly the end times.

England at least fifty light and conditions look ripe for batting today.

[king_carlos]

1. Put into bat on a road
2. Actually make a good start for a change
3. Get bowled out for under 300 with Mitch Marsh taking a five-fer.

The most England of England batting performances.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Massive fan of Mitch Marsh having a five-fer in this series, yet Pat Cummins somehow hasn't

[eirebilly]

I am not upset at the way Buttler got out, he was taking the attack to the Aussies which was exactly what he had to do.

[king_carlos]

I would say that England are around 80 short of par here but they have runs on the board and that's all that matters.

Over to Broad now.

I hope that England juggle Archer more intelligently than last test. Broad, Woakes and Curran should allow them to use Archer in sparing bursts so he can keep his pace up a bit more.

Marsh found movement so Curran should definitely get some purchase.

A part of me almost hopes young Sam doesn't remove Smith as the TMS feed I'm following will be bombarded with messages about him having been the answer all series!

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Broad has decided to take the piss

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