The Ashes - official thread

[Soul Requiem]

First topic message reminder :

I don't understand why Buttler isn't hogging the strike here.

[sirfredperry]

Don't think England will get anywhere near this target but still a bit surprised Australia declared as early as they did.

Can't imagine, say, Alastair Cook, setting the opposition less than 400.

From a statistical points of view, still a little upset Smith didn't get a 100. Not sure anyone has made a hundred in each innings TWICE in an Ashes series.

Of course, Bradman made so many in the first innings that he rarely had to bat again against England.

[Guest]

0-2 Burns and Root gone

[Duty281]

No luck today for Rory - first edge finds the fielder. One of the few batsmen actually capable of batting long enough to save this gone. Ashes nearly gone.

Ah, 0/2. Absolute pearler of a ball and another golden duck for Root. Game over.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

This one is over folks

[Duty281]

Moving Roy down to 4 and he still has to face up in the first over!

I won't hold my breath for another Stokes innings from the Gods.

[guildfordbat]

Utterly brilliant over from Cummins.

Denly and Roy left to take us to lunch - yeah, well ....

[Gooseberry]

Someone said Roy and Denly were playing for their careers....yeah that

[Gooseberry]

Olly it's also more than England have made in 3 in innings this year. And one of those was without Roy

[Duty281]

It's a pity 'rest days' have gone out of the game. Sunday's weather in Manchester is beautiful, Monday's is wet, wet, wet.

[robbo277]

The things in England's favour:

It isn't too long since Australia's 4 man attack got through 100 overs. They got about 4 hours off.

Lyon hasn't fired since Edgbaston and it's slow turn at Old Trafford, nothing to get anyone too worried about. He'll have to hold an end but if he cant threaten wickets it will put more pressure on the seamers.

Denly and Roy are playing for their careers. If they mess this up the Ashes are gone and there is no need to keep flogging a dead horse. Both need to be there at lunch tomorrow or they're probably done. Buttler could also be in this boat when he gets to the crease. Hopefully that pressure motivates them and focuses their minds.

The hope of bad light. Cloudy tomorrow evening if the game gets that far.

Sir Benjamin Stokes.

So yeah, call it a draw now basically and move on to the oval.

[KP_fan]

The Game situation has an Australian win written all over it and hence Bet365 is allowing a cashout @2.3 times return already on an original 2.5  return bet.


BUT the game situation has a decent sized Aussie win written over it last game also.

I have feeling though that there is a slight chance of Eng escaping with a draw.....if Lyon doesn't find his rhythm. The 3 Aussie  pacers are one better than the 2 that Eng has......BUT Lyon is the key...if he doesn't pluck out at least 3 tomm.....Eng on the back of Stokes, Butler and Bairstow with the doughty lower  order will see it through with one or two wickets in hand.

There can't be a better platform than this for Lyon....mountain of runs....D5 pitch on a venue that has conventionally spun.....but he is lacking rhythm...ain't getting the loop and generally dropping it juts a bit short...his revs count is also lower than normal....and lacking the usual bite.

He understands as does Aussie management and so in the one over today he was consciously trying to bowl "not short" and in the process overcompensating with too full and even a full toss....... and was duly and easily swept by Denly.

Roy and Overton are waste of space for Eng and Leach after promise disappointed in this game...
Wade confirms fighting / doughty gutsy / busy character in domestic FC and T20s does not alone make a test match batsman...he is lacking the innings building and perseverance of a test match batsman.....he will go,,,and Khawaja will surely be back.

Tim Paine is neither a good batsman nor an exceptional captain...actually he is a mediocre captain with little to do as he is steered from Langer, Ponting, Waugh etal in the background....but even the few thngs he is meant to do on the ground like dRS and keeping calm amidst the Stokes onslaught......he messes up.

The aftermath of this series should see Carey as WK and a new captain
and who would that Captain be?....Khawaja Or Cummins?

On the game tomm 80-20 Aus's way

[No name Bertie]

I think it would be fair if Australia won this series. They just seem that bit better than England - and this has mainly been due to Steve Smith. If England draw the series then good for them.

[Duty281]

I give Australia about a 98% chance of winning, with 1% each on the England win and the draw.

England essentially have three batsmen in their XI capable of batting for very long periods - Burns, Root and Stokes. Yeah, two of them are already out!

What's left? Roy and Denly - useless passengers. Horrible feeling they'll make flashy 40/50s tomorrow and 'justify' their selection for another test. Bairstow and Buttler - both have poor defensive technique, neither in the best of form or well-equipped to bat time. And a very long tail with Overton, Archer, Broad and Leach - I only have faith in one of those to be obdurate for a decent length of time!

Australia have four very skilled bowlers, a deteriorating wicket, seven hours of play and a second new ball (if needed) to take eight wickets. It's pretty much a done deal. Even if bad light hits, that won't be until around 75/80 overs have been bowled.

If England get out of this one unscathed, it'll be a minor miracle. Minor compared to Headingley, anyway! It's all down to Ben Stokes. Again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sEEDZr03xA

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Well, I think we can look at Overton and say that didn’t work

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Saw someone draw a comparison that actually makes a lot of sense - this is a similar series to when England toured Australia in 2010/11. A clearly superior touring side with more talent, pulls ahead in the final two games of the series after a superhuman effort in the 3rd test pulled the flaky, in transition home side level

[VTR]

I can see some similarities, but that England side had a very strong top 7. This Aussie batting lineup is mostly garbage outside of Smith. I don't think this is a very strong Aussie team overall, but it is a pretty poor England one. Denly, Roy and Overton, it's like playing with 8

[GSC]

Really the difference is all Smith. He drags the Australians to a score everytime he bats.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The difference is mainly Smith, although their bowlers are now a notch ahead of ours because we have so many injuries.

Lyon > Leach/Ali
Cummins & Hazlewood = Archer & Broad
Starc/Siddle > Woakes/Overton

But, had that been an uninjured English list, I think Anderson being available, Wood or Stone being one of the changes in there too, makes that possibly much more level and then their weak batting lineup gets more often exposed.

Smith is the difference, undoubtedly, but injuries have certainly played their part.

[Duty281]

Smith is the main difference, but Australia's all-round bowling attack and fielding (both ground and catching) has also been better than England. Even if Smith was absent for the entirety of this summer, I reckon Australia would have still won the series, albeit in a much closer manner.

[VTR]

The best bowling side will usually win over a long series. As long as the top 6 isn't entirely made up of Ravi Boparas, and the tail can at least hold a bat, workable totals still tend to happen. It's going to be the difference. Change bowling of Starc or Overton. Hmmm...

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Again, that ridiculous injury list adds a note.

Can’t see how the Aussies would be doing any better if Smith wasn’t there. Not just his runs but the attitude he could inject into his teammates.

They don’t win this or their other win without him, in my opinion

[compelling and rich]

yeah in this series smith has dug Australia out of trouble so many times when England have had their tales up and bowling well. without smith we could have blown out this batting line up a couple of times with the new ball and some of the conditions we have had.

[VTR]

Smith's captaincy has been far better than Root's as well. We all know who the real captain is

[guildfordbat]

That was terrible cricket - very wide ball from Starc, Denly doing an impression of Vince in reaching for and edging it and then no reaction from Labuschagne as it flew past him.

[Duty281]

Australia's seamers are bowling too well to Denly and Roy. They need to serve up some full, wide rubbish outside off and tempt them into expansive drives, which will inevitably go wrong.

Denly all at sea against Lyon. Playing rash, pre-meditated sweeps because he doesn't trust his defence.

[compelling and rich]

That was terrible cricket - very wide ball from Starc, Denly doing an impression of Vince in reaching for and edging it and then no reaction from Labuschagne as it flew past him.

nearly getting caught on the boundary now!

[guildfordbat]

Encouraging and effective start by Denly and Roy using up a dozen overs. Still the constant fear though that the next ball is going to change things and Lyon had Roy, Denly and me on edge in his last over. 86 overs still left in the day if required (assuming light allows and the Aussies don't sneak an extra 1 or 2 in which seems most unlikely).

Odd that additional overs can be added to the last day of a Test to make up lost time (and quite right too) but not a County Championship match.

[Duty281]

Good first hour from these two. Not many would have expected them to make it through unscathed. Lyon and Starc not quite getting it right at the minute. Impressed by Roy's effort and application - he's clearly struggling, but he's trying his damnedest to tough it out.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

And there he goes, hopefully for the last time, but if ever again then I’d hope he’s down, down, down the order.

[compelling and rich]

fantastic ball, but still that gap was huge

if roy had applied himself like this for the rest of the series id be more willing to give him abit of leeway

[Duty281]

Puncture the hope balloon as Cummins lands one through Roy's substandard defences. He looks heartbroken as that's probably the end of his test career.

80 overs left. 320 to win. Come on, Stokes.

[Duty281]

if roy had applied himself like this for the rest of the series id be more willing to give him abit of leeway

Agreed. His usual thing is to sell his wicket cheap - he made it a bit more difficult for the opposition today.

[guildfordbat]

Puncture the hope balloon as Cummins lands one through Roy's substandard defences. He looks heartbroken as that's probably the end of his test career.

80 overs left. 320 to win. Come on, Stokes.

As Gower said of Roy's partnership with Denly - ''used up some time, used up some overs'' although still giving the distinct impression that it wasn't enough for England or Roy.

I went to a Boycs & Aggers show early last year where the former was asked of Roy's prospects about playing Tests. Sir Geoffrey gave one of his annoying chuckles and viewed the possibility as a non-starter referring to Roy being ''too loose and open for Test cricket''. Even more annoyingly, he appears to have been right as he actually so often is.

[JDizzle]

Not sure I'd have been walking off Ben, given Paine's record on reviews!

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

You watch Patrick Cummins bowl and you feel all those injuries, which robbed him of 6 years of Test cricket, have made him an even better bowler. I remember him bursting on the scene bowling well over 150kph. Cummins has reigned it back to consistently around 140-145kph but with incredible skill.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Not sure I'd have been walking off Ben, given Paine's record on reviews!

Professional cricketers should never walk

[guildfordbat]

To England's credit they are making Australia fight for their wickets but still the visitors' session, especially given the state of the game. Looks like there's one session too many left for us to hold out for the draw.

It may have been honourable by Stokes to walk (it's always easier to show honour and dignity soon after a match winning undefeated century) but I still didn't like it. Do what your opponents would have done and make Paine and the third umpire work for the review and the wicket.

Meanwhile, Goose may not be too chuffed but Denly is close to inking his name on the teamsheet for the Oval Test.

[sirfredperry]

Just a matter of time now, alas.

Some stats. Smith was equal second-fastest to reach 6,000 runs in terms of innings.

His latest burst has put him well on the way to becoming the fastest to 7,000. Now Bradman is out of the way ( the Don was fastest to 2,3,4,5 and 6,000 but, of course, fell four runs short of 7,000) more records await Smith.

[Duty281]

Agree that Stokes shouldn't have walked. Also don't think it was a great act of amazing sportsmanship that some are lauding it to be - it just saved a couple of minutes as Australia would have surely reviewed. If Australia had zero reviews left, then yes it would have been a great act of amazing sportsmanship.

71 overs left. England need to hope for some dark clouds and a lot of luck. Denly doing as I feared and possibly keeping himself in the side.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I’d keep Denly over quite a few of the soon to be (hopefully) discarded based solely on attitude. Not that I’d be desperate to keep him, by any means

[Duty281]

Seven starts for Denly in this series - no big scores.

[VTR]

Craig Overton to come in with a hundred ball blockathan to solve the mystery of why he was picked in the first place.

[No name Bertie]

Disappointing from Ben Stokes.  He should have stood his ground.  If Paine didn't review he would have been not out and then batted out the day for a draw.  

If Paine had reviewed and Stokes was given out based on the snickometer, he should have feigned shock and stepped back onto his wicket falling over and demolishing them.  

Then while he was prone on the ground he should have feigned a life-threatening injury - forcing a temporary halt to play as specially trained English medical doctors examined him - and then ordered in a helicopter for an emergency evacuation or maybe better just to stretcher him off.  

Then when on the stretcher one of the stretcher bearers should then have feigned a heart attack.  This could have repeated itself until they ran out of stretcher bearers and helicopters forcing an abandonment of the match - with the field full of prone stretcher bearers and one Ben Stokes requiring urgent medical attention.

[Duty281]

Labuschagne and Head wasting overs and time by being sent on to bowl. I'm very ok with that. Shows why Australia would have been silly to enforce the follow-on if it were an option.

England have still got about two and a half hours worth of batting to do before we can entertain the possibility of bad light rescuing the hosts. And we need some dark clouds for that.

[guildfordbat]

Disappointing from Ben Stokes.  He should have stood his ground.  If Paine didn't review he would have been not out and then batted out the day for a draw.  

If Paine had reviewed and Stokes was given out based on the snickometer, he should have feigned shock and stepped back onto his wicket falling over and demolishing them.  

Then while he was prone on the ground he should have feigned a life-threatening injury - forcing a temporary halt to play as specially trained English medical doctors examined him - and then ordered in a helicopter for an emergency evacuation or maybe better just to stretcher him off.  

Then when on the stretcher one of the stretcher bearers should then have feigned a heart attack.  This could have repeated itself until they ran out of stretcher bearers and helicopters forcing an abandonment of the match - with the field full of prone stretcher bearers and one Ben Stokes requiring urgent medical attention.

Thanks for that, Bertie. I'll stick to the beer.

[Duty281]

Tough one that for Bairstow. Looked high in real time, though not to the umpire. Into the tail.

[Duty281]

Australia's old trick of getting the ball changed coming to fruition again. Suddenly there's extreme movement for the seamers.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Probably going to put the mockers on him, but Buttler looking a let better this test. Seemingly finding the form of his past 12 months in the red ball stuff again

[guildfordbat]

Tea at 4.10 today, that right?

[Duty281]

Tea at 4.10 today, that right?

Indeed.

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