Japan 2019 - Pool A Ireland Japan Russia Samoa Scotland

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Team	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	Tries	PF	PA	+/-	BP	Points
Japan	3	3	0	0	9	87	41	+46	2	14
Ireland	3	2	0	1	11	74	22	+52	3	11
Scotland	3	2	0	1	13	98	27	71	2	10
Samoa	3	1	0	2	7	53	81	-28	1	5
Russia	3	0	0	3	1	19	125	-106	0	0

Japan 30-10 Russia              
Ireland 27-3 Scotland  
Russia 9-34 Samoa                        
Japan 19-12 Ireland                          
Scotland 34-0 Samoa
Ireland 35-0 Russia
Japan 38-19 Samoa
Scotland 61-0 Russia  

                                       
                     
12 October 2019         Ireland v Samoa                         Fukuoka Hakatanomori Stadium, Fukuoka
13 October 2019         Japan v Scotland                         International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama


Two games left. If Ireland get a TBP win on Saturday they qualify for the quarter finals irrespective of the result on Sunday. Any other result and they need to wait and see what happens between Japan and Scotland.
Any win for Japan and they will top the group (in fact a draw or losing with two bonus points will guarantee the same)
Most interesting scenario is if Ireland win without a bonus point - opening up a chance for Scotland to top the group if all 3 teams end up on 15pts and Scotland are able to keep their points difference ahead of Ireland.

Odd emotions from that game.
Being Irish it absolutely sucks to see us so devoid of ideas.
Loving rugby it was amazing to watch Japan play

Congratulations to Japan, great for the team and the tournament. Good luck in the quarter final.

Collapse2005 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Have  to say Japan were fantastic.
Ireland after the first 20 ran out of energy and ideas.
Carty I thought did well but we were taking the ball standing still.
The pack looked absolutely shot by half time.
In hindsight we should have rotated more player's

Thought Carty looked good too

Yes the conditions took all the oomph out of Ireland (and the non-indigenous Japanese).
Even with the playing schedule arranged to give Japan at least two more days rest than their opponents, can they maintain that intensity every game?

With Ireland losing, Schmidt would still have been damned if he has rotated the team more - there is no guarantee they would have been better.
Carty put in a good showing as did all the guys not heavily involved on Sunday, but then there was no indication through the week that the conditions would sap their energy to the extent it did.

Any one know if Angus Gardner is mates with Rob Howley?

Taylorman wrote:Amazing considering many are from the Sunwolves who again finished last Super rugby.

I thought the whole problem with the Sunwolves was that few of them play for the national side.

Why did carberry kick that ball out. Seems a big brain f@rt to me.

No9 wrote:Why did Carty kick that ball out. Seems a big brain f@rt to me.

Some one suggested it was to stop Ireland not getting a losing bonus point. 

Japan was so close to scoring in the dying second's which would of been a lot worst for Ireland.

majesticimperialman wrote:

No9 wrote:Why did carberry kick that ball out. Seems a big brain f@rt to me.

Some one suggested it was to stop Ireland not getting a losing bonus point. 

Japan was so close to scoring in the dying second's which would of been a lot worst for Ireland.

If that’s the case, then Ireland have a serious mental attitude problem....

I was shouting for Japan to take a drop goal in those dying moments in front of the post.

majesticimperialman wrote:

No9 wrote:Why did Carty kick that ball out. Seems a big brain f@rt to me.

Some one suggested it was to stop Ireland not getting a losing bonus point. 

Japan was so close to scoring in the dying second's which would of been a lot worst for Ireland.

It may turn out to be a very smart move if Japan lose a game and there is a three way tie in the group.

lostinwales wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

No9 wrote:Why did carberry kick that ball out. Seems a big brain f@rt to me.

Some one suggested it was to stop Ireland not getting a losing bonus point. 

Japan was so close to scoring in the dying second's which would of been a lot worst for Ireland.

It may turn out to be a very smart move if Japan lose a game and there is a three way tie in the group.

Yep... could be a 3 way battle in the last round

No9 wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

No9 wrote:Why did carberry kick that ball out. Seems a big brain f@rt to me.

Some one suggested it was to stop Ireland not getting a losing bonus point. 

Japan was so close to scoring in the dying second's which would of been a lot worst for Ireland.

If that’s the case, then Ireland have a serious mental attitude problem....

I was shouting for Japan to take a drop goal in those dying moments in front of the post.

Not really. That bonus point could end up being essential for qualification, so it was a bird in the hand/two in the bush decision.

Robshaw was roundly criticised for not taking the easy 3 and the draw against Wales and instead changing his arm for the win. In retrospect, this was definitely the wrong call as England had the bonus point against Fiji and with the way the remaining results fell this would have been enough.

I don't know if Carberry was thinking this, but banking the LBP after the try bonus point against Scotland (where they got nothing) wasnt the worst move.

If Ireland get 10 points from their remaining two games they'll finish on 16.

If Scotland and Japan both take 5 off Samoa and Scotland take 5 off Russia, Japan will be on 14 points and Scotland will be on 10 points with their game left to play. There is no way in that situation Ireland wouldn't qualify.

Rugby Fan wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Amazing considering many are from the Sunwolves who again finished last Super rugby.

I thought the whole problem with the Sunwolves was that few of them play for the national side.

None of the Japan side played for the Sunwolves this year which is why they have been kicked out of super rugby.

robbo277 wrote:Robshaw was roundly criticised for not taking the easy 3 and the draw against Wales and instead changing his arm for the win. In retrospect, this was definitely the wrong call as England had the bonus point against Fiji and with the way the remaining results fell this would have been enough.

I don't know if Carberry was thinking this, but banking the LBP after the try bonus point against Scotland (where they got nothing) wasnt the worst move.

If Ireland get 10 points from their remaining two games they'll finish on 16.

If Scotland and Japan both take 5 off Samoa and Scotland take 5 off Russia, Japan will be on 14 points and Scotland will be on 10 points with their game left to play. There is no way in that situation Ireland wouldn't qualify.

It was the right thing to do in that position.

I think Scotland will beat Samoa and then Russia. Japan for me will also beat Samoa which makes the final match, Japan vs Scotland an absolute huge one. With the 8 days rest before that you have to admit that it's looking promising for Japan.

Old Man wrote:If Japan beat Scotland they will top the group and Ireland will be second.

Might suit SA

Ireland...losing to Japan, lol, that is hilarious

That two teams that regularly beat NZ lately that have lost to Japan now. Interesting symmetry.

Guns, good effort, but Ireland are toast now

ebop wrote:Guns, good effort, but Ireland are toast now

I would say so. after losing today there is no coming back.

Lets see, until they are out there is still all to play for. Playing NZ might suit us better.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Old Man wrote:If Japan beat Scotland they will top the group and Ireland will be second.

Might suit SA

Japan will be so up for that rematch, though. And if they can weather the physical onslaught, they have the fitness to strike back, if not quite the composure of the All Blacks.

Not really. Can still top the group.

ebop wrote:Guns, good effort, but Ireland are toast now

I’d say anyone with half a brain who isn’t on the WUM would say Ireland are right in the hunt still

Yeah, Ireland are great, #1 team recently

France got to a final after losing 2 pool games. Keep trucking

If you watch the warm up game with England, England put 57 points on Ireland. 

Ireland had no answers, no responce , to England attack, England's style of play. It is like Ireland could not be bothered  once they went behind.

If you take the game today Ireland looked good for the first 20 minutes, when Ireland went 12-3 up, every one including myself thought Ireland would run away with the game.

When Japan got that try Ireland just seemed  deflated and gave up. Although Ireland did put up a fight it seemed too little to late.

Ireland have really gone off the boil since last year, and i do not know how they can fix it in this rugby world cup

Collapse2005 wrote:France got to a final after losing 2 pool games. Keep trucking

And were robbed in the final.

majesticimperialman wrote:If you watch the warm up game with England, England put 57 points on Ireland. 

Ireland had no answers, no responce , to England attack, England's style of play. It is like Ireland could not be bothered  once they went behind.

If you take the game today Ireland looked good for the first 20 minutes, when Ireland went 12-3 up, every one including myself thought Ireland would run away with the game.

When Japan got that try Ireland just seemed  deflated and gave up. Although Ireland did put up a fight it seemed too little to late.

Ireland have really gone off the boil since last year, and i do not know how they can fix it in this rugby world cup

The England game was fairly meaningless unless you think Wales have no hope now after losing 2 v Ireland?

I dont think Ireland reacted well to Gardner. It was obvious early on that he wasnt going to give them anybof the fifty fifty calls and they froze.

Collapse2005 wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:If you watch the warm up game with England, England put 57 points on Ireland. 

Ireland had no answers, no responce , to England attack, England's style of play. It is like Ireland could not be bothered  once they went behind.

If you take the game today Ireland looked good for the first 20 minutes, when Ireland went 12-3 up, every one including myself thought Ireland would run away with the game.

When Japan got that try Ireland just seemed  deflated and gave up. Although Ireland did put up a fight it seemed too little to late.

Ireland have really gone off the boil since last year, and i do not know how they can fix it in this rugby world cup

The England game was fairly meaningless unless you think Wales have no hope now after losing 2 v Ireland?

To be fair  before today's game i thought Ireland had more chance than Wales. But after today's game you have to fancy Wales have more of a chance than Ireland do.

profitius wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:France got to a final after losing 2 pool games. Keep trucking

And were robbed in the final.

Wrong world cup. NZ put 60 on France in the QF (in Cardiff) in the tournament that France lost 2 pool games.

*Actually you guys are correct. In 2011 France lost to NZ and Tonga in the pool stage. France lost to Ireland in pool stage in 2015. I had my world cups mixed up. Honestly these sort of things seem French, not Irish. I wouldn't take hope from that but yes Ireland are more likely to top the group this year.

majesticimperialman wrote:If you watch the warm up game with England, England put 57 points on Ireland. 

Ireland had no answers, no responce , to England attack, England's style of play. It is like Ireland could not be bothered  once they went behind.

If you take the game today Ireland looked good for the first 20 minutes, when Ireland went 12-3 up, every one including myself thought Ireland would run away with the game.

When Japan got that try Ireland just seemed  deflated and gave up. Although Ireland did put up a fight it seemed too little to late.

Ireland have really gone off the boil since last year, and i do not know how they can fix it in this rugby world cup

None of the warm up games really matter though. (except for one maybe). I do think on current evidence that neither Ireland nor South Africa are going to win this RWC

lostinwales wrote:None of the warm up games really matter though. (except for one maybe). I do think on current evidence that neither Ireland nor South Africa are going to win this RWC

So Wales are your new favourites then?

profitius wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:France got to a final after losing 2 pool games. Keep trucking

And were robbed in the final.

Cue the loser bitter Irish

mikey_dragon wrote:

lostinwales wrote:None of the warm up games really matter though. (except for one maybe). I do think on current evidence that neither Ireland nor South Africa are going to win this RWC

So Wales are your new favourites then?

No but I have not written them off. Lets see how they go tomorrow first.

I don't know if someone else has posted this yet but Conan now confirmed as going home with a broken foot. (someone stood on it in training) Jordi Murphy expected to be the replacement

Why is it when certain posters, both NH and SH join in a thread it disintegrates and just becomes boring?

What a game, what a win.

Keeping the ball moving with a wonderful understanding of space and support line running.

Wonderful discipline - with aggression - in defence.

That's what won the game. Great to see rugby played that way. Thought they missed a trick not going for a drop goal at the end, and you know Schmidt gave the call to kick it off instead of going for the draw, which always seemed unlikely.

Group, and knockouts, now wide open. Think we'll still see Ireland top the group and Scotland will do a job on a possibly tiring Japan, but they deserve a QF after both 2015 and now this game. Fair play Jamie Joseph. Look in to what he's done in Japan - he's basically been coaching them like a club team this season. Deserves huge credit.

For Ireland, major worries. Your 'last chance' players like Carbery, Beirne etc. who are there to come on when it's loose and you need scores haven't been naturalised in the Ireland squad/test team yet, and it's showing. Going to have to pull out something special to get past either NZ or SA now.

lostinwales wrote:I don't know if someone else has posted this yet but Conan now confirmed as going home with a broken foot. (someone stood on it in training) Jordi Murphy expected to be the replacement

Its a bad break as Ireland have looked better with Conan at 8

Losing to Japan though Guns. Is that worse than Conan? Who is Conan?

Its not the end of the world losing today but it will surely be a huge dent in the Ireland teams confidence.

Ireland are toast

Pal Joey wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Does this mean Japan are ranked #1 now?

1 New Zealand 90.98
2 (↑3) England 88.13
3 (↑4) Wales 87.32
4 (↓2) Ireland 85.93 (-4.00)
5 (↑6) Australia 85.07
6 (↓5) South Africa 83.75 (-2.00)
7 (--)  France 81.04
8 (↑10) Japan 80.70 (+4.00)
9 (↓8) Scotland 80.54
10 (↓9) Argentina 76.79

If Japan beat Scotland and go out at the QFs (rather than SF, where the likelihood is they lose twice in a row with double points for RWC), is there a possibility they can be in the top 8 come rankings for 2023? What is their schedule looking like? It's not out of the question that Scotland and Argentina keep losing in 2020, and the rankings are made at the end of 2021.

Maybe too far away at this stage, but for all the talk of Georgia, it's pretty clear who the best tier 2 nation is. I'd say Japan look just a shade under Italy, and considering the way they play, would definitely be able to beat them with regularity if they played each year.

Nothing less than 10 points in the remaining 2 games.

Not many people giving Scotland much hope of beating Japan in final game. Hopefully they can spoil the party.

Soul Requiem wrote:

A tier one team shouldn't get rewarded for losing to a tier 2 team.

Bonus points for wokeness? The less privilege you have, the more points you get?

Taylorman wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Does this mean Japan are ranked #1 now?

1 New Zealand 90.98
2 (↑3) England 88.13
3 (↑4) Wales 87.32
4 (↓2) Ireland 85.93 (-4.00)
5 (↑6) Australia 85.07
6 (↓5) South Africa 83.75 (-2.00)
7 (--)  France 81.04
8 (↑10) Japan 80.70 (+4.00)
9 (↓8) Scotland 80.54
10 (↓9) Argentina 76.79


Japan are 8th... just overtaken Argentina and Scotland. Ireland slip to 4th.

Japan top 8 huh?
16 out of 31 foreign born, as are coach, co coach.
The trend continues...

Jeez, someone pull him out at the socket...

robbo277 wrote:Robshaw was roundly criticised for not taking the easy 3 and the draw against Wales and instead changing his arm for the win. In retrospect, this was definitely the wrong call as England had the bonus point against Fiji and with the way the remaining results fell this would have been enough.

I don't know if Carberry was thinking this, but banking the LBP after the try bonus point against Scotland (where they got nothing) wasnt the worst move.

If Ireland get 10 points from their remaining two games they'll finish on 16.

If Scotland and Japan both take 5 off Samoa and Scotland take 5 off Russia, Japan will be on 14 points and Scotland will be on 10 points with their game left to play. There is no way in that situation Ireland wouldn't qualify.

For all the stick he gets, I don't believe it was the wrong call. Kick within the 15m channel, on the right hand side, with a right footed kicker. They should have thrown to the back, peeled the maul, and they would have won the game.

It's even the draw that would help Ireland. 2 points v 1 point. Yeah, you deny Japan an extra 3, but they didn't score for, what, the last 50 minutes of the game?

They'll qualify, as you say. They'll probably qualify top of the group. The point makes that more likely.

Would still be shocked for Japan to beat Scotland. Amazed that Japan won this game tbh and have to think that Schmidt got his team selection wrong as well. 'Resting' players now means he has to flog the side against Samoa just to qualify.

I'd also be amazed if Schmidt didn't tell them to kick it off based on the lack of dissent among the Irish ranks, and that Carbery seemed fairly focused in what he was doing, not looking for a chip or a long pass or whatever - it was get it back and kick it off.

miaow wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

A tier one team shouldn't get rewarded for losing to a tier 2 team.

Bonus points for wokeness? The less privilege you have, the more points you get?

Japan are a tier 2 team in name only. They are better even now than Italy could ever could ever wish to be. Won't be long before they are invited to the rugby championship.

majesticimperialman wrote:Ireland had no answers, no responce , to England attack, England's style of play. It is like Ireland could not be bothered  once they went behind.

Tone aside, I think this is the key issue for Ireland.

At 16-12, I remember Henderson taking it in around the 10m line, and just thinking...Ireland don't know what to do when they have to chase the lead. They're the anti-Wales in that - though both teams play similarly - they don't have that last quarter comeback in them. Even with Berine, Cronin, Stockdale, Carbery, Ringrose etc. all on the field, there's just no spark, individually and collectively, to know literally how to manipulate defences by going through phases at speed, by running it wide, by creating pressure with interesting running lines, offloading, whatever.

It's all a bit carry, ,carry, grind, kick it, carry, grind, spoil, grind. They can look brilliant when they do that, but you need a bit of that Scottish panic flair AT LEAST when the game is going to sheet. Ideally, you should play a bit of rugby before it gets to that point.

But if Ireland don't have the lead - and if you stop them behind the gainline by hammering at them: take note, Gregor, what an embarrassment this has made of Scotland's performance as well - they look half the team they look when they're on the front foot.

I wouldn't be so sure of Scotland beating Japan. For one thing, Japan have an ultra-disciplined playing style that is unlikely to afford Scotland the broken play they like to exploit. For another, Scotland were woeful against Ireland, and Japan weren't. For a third, Scotland have already lost nearly 20% of their squad to injury. For a fourth, Japan have home advantage and will have a stadium full of fans who will have been targeting this game for 4 years.

But the big one for me is that when they met in the last RWC, Japan were coming off a 4 day turnaround from their epic match against South Africa.

This time, they have a full 8 days to prepare before the game. Scotland play Russia on 9th October and have to face Japan on 13th.

Barring a miraculous change in form, Scotland will go in as underdogs.

Poorfour wrote:I wouldn't be so sure of Scotland beating Japan. For one thing, Japan have an ultra-disciplined playing style that is unlikely to afford Scotland the broken play they like to exploit. For another, Scotland were woeful against Ireland, and Japan weren't. For a third, Scotland have already lost nearly 20% of their squad to injury. For a fourth, Japan have home advantage and will have a stadium full of fans who will have been targeting this game for 4 years.

But the big one for me is that when they met in the last RWC, Japan were coming off a 4 day turnaround from their epic match against South Africa.

This time, they have a full 8 days to prepare before the game. Scotland play Russia on 9th October and have to face Japan on 13th.

Barring a miraculous change in form, Scotland will go in as underdogs.

Who is sure of Scotland beating Japan? As a Scotland fan I’ve seen nothing to suggest that we’re going into the match as favourites

Nailed it miaow