Japan 2019 - Pool A Ireland Japan Russia Samoa Scotland

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Team	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	Tries	PF	PA	+/-	BP	Points
Japan	3	3	0	0	9	87	41	+46	2	14
Ireland	3	2	0	1	11	74	22	+52	3	11
Scotland	3	2	0	1	13	98	27	71	2	10
Samoa	3	1	0	2	7	53	81	-28	1	5
Russia	3	0	0	3	1	19	125	-106	0	0

Japan 30-10 Russia              
Ireland 27-3 Scotland  
Russia 9-34 Samoa                        
Japan 19-12 Ireland                          
Scotland 34-0 Samoa
Ireland 35-0 Russia
Japan 38-19 Samoa
Scotland 61-0 Russia  

                                       
                     
12 October 2019         Ireland v Samoa                         Fukuoka Hakatanomori Stadium, Fukuoka
13 October 2019         Japan v Scotland                         International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama


Two games left. If Ireland get a TBP win on Saturday they qualify for the quarter finals irrespective of the result on Sunday. Any other result and they need to wait and see what happens between Japan and Scotland.
Any win for Japan and they will top the group (in fact a draw or losing with two bonus points will guarantee the same)
Most interesting scenario is if Ireland win without a bonus point - opening up a chance for Scotland to top the group if all 3 teams end up on 15pts and Scotland are able to keep their points difference ahead of Ireland.

SecretFly wrote:

Pie wrote:I hope Japan win the group as IMO only team of the 3 contenders that would get past Boks at the moment

If Japan keep being a contender in their last two games, then neither Ireland nor Scotland will meet the Boks.

So?   Kind of a worthless point IF Japan remains the best side through the Pool.

You cant actually be that

Okay its try this again with feeling....

I hope Japan win the group as they might beat SA whereas I dont think Ireland or Scots would if they won the group

Got it now

Oh I got it, I got it. Playing with your loose selection of words...geddit? A lot of Welsh elite coaches about lately on these threads . Enjoy the show

Love how committed Japan are to the game, and how the crowd are responding to it.

tigertattie wrote:Fan A and fan B - different supporting styles entirely

This guy was at the SA v Italy game and the Japan v Samoa game too. Different body paint each game.

Collapse2005 wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Fan A and fan B - different supporting styles entirely

This guy was at the SA v Italy game and the Japan v Samoa game too. Different body paint each game.

Best kinda fan. Just goes to enjoy the rugby

He like a lot of Japanese fans pick a team to support at the game they go to and they go all out in their support for that side. Good craic.

tigertattie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Fan A and fan B - different supporting styles entirely

This guy was at the SA v Italy game and the Japan v Samoa game too. Different body paint each game.

Best kinda fan. Just goes to enjoy the rugby

Rumour has it that he didn't enjoy the Ireland v Russia game.

Good win by Japan, they’ve taken control of this group. I’d love to see them stay undefeated in the pool stage.

Am i right if Scotland lose to Japan, Scotland are out is that right?

majesticimperialman wrote:Am i right if Scotland lose to Japan, Scotland are out is that right?

In all probability, yes. Ireland would have to lose to Russia for that not to be a certainty.

Ireland already beat Russia. You mean Samoa.

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland already beat Russia. You mean Samoa.

My apologies, I did mean Samoa.

Well hopefully we will get the 5 point win against Samoa.
I still think Scotland will edge out japan, but go out on lbp’s, bp’s.

Scotland are out in all circumstances apart from the following

1. Bonus point vs russia
And
2. 4 try bonus vs japan without japan getting any losing bp

Very tall order

alive555 wrote:Scotland are out in all circumstances apart from the following

1. Bonus point vs russia
And
2. 4 try bonus vs japan without japan getting any losing bp

Very tall order

Barring an unlikely Irish loss to Samoa in which case Scotland could theoretically lose to Japan and still get through if they received a losing bonus point (or 2 if Ireland were to get 1 against Samoa) and beat Russia with a bonus point.

Japan v Samoa was a great game to watch.

A sign that Samoa offered more than they did v Scotland. I'd take that as a positive sign for the Scots, if anything. But a really enjoyable game to watch with good play by both sides.

Cannot see Samoa taking points off Ireland. Bonus point win for the Irish.

The neutral has to hope Japan goes through - sorry Scotland. They play great rugby, look like great hosts, and would give SA a good game.

alive555 wrote:Scotland are out in all circumstances apart from the following

1. Bonus point vs russia
And
2. 4 try bonus vs japan without japan getting any losing bp

Very tall order

If they get 5 points v Russia won't a win without Japan getting a LBP be enough? As if they finish level on points the winner of the head-to-head goes through?

Yes, i think that is right

miaow wrote:

The neutral has to hope Japan goes through - sorry Scotland. They play great rugby, look like great hosts, and would give SA a good game.

Japan giving SA a good game and perhaps winning? At a World Cup? That's a good one. It'd never happen.

And, oh, we did laugh...

miaow wrote:Japan v Samoa was a great game to watch.

A sign that Samoa offered more than they did v Scotland. I'd take that as a positive sign for the Scots, if anything. But a really enjoyable game to watch with good play by both sides.

Cannot see Samoa taking points off Ireland. Bonus point win for the Irish.

The neutral has to hope Japan goes through - sorry Scotland. They play great rugby, look like great hosts, and would give SA a good game.

True, being coached, captained and choc full of SHers helps. well, it’s the primary reason for it.

All Scotland, Wales and Ireland bring to this tournament is their 6N teams. Nothing more, nothing less. Always have. That’s why they get nowhere. Other sides do the work, thats why England is the only NH chance.

Sorry Scotland, Ireland and Wales. While we’re doing the sorrys that is.

miaow wrote:And, oh, we did laugh...

Being beaten but Japan is a rite of passage. We're honoured to have joined the list.

"Other sides do the work"?

Explain please. I'm very tired. Hard day's work. Saw no blasted games. Why Japan puts their games on so early in the morning bamboozles me............

Taylorman wrote:

miaow wrote:Japan v Samoa was a great game to watch.

A sign that Samoa offered more than they did v Scotland. I'd take that as a positive sign for the Scots, if anything. But a really enjoyable game to watch with good play by both sides.

Cannot see Samoa taking points off Ireland. Bonus point win for the Irish.

The neutral has to hope Japan goes through - sorry Scotland. They play great rugby, look like great hosts, and would give SA a good game.

True, being coached, captained and choc full of SHers helps. well, it’s the primary reason for it.

All Scotland, Wales and Ireland bring to this tournament is their 6N teams. Nothing more, nothing less. Always have. That’s why they get nowhere. Other sides do the work, thats why England is the only NH chance.

Sorry Scotland, Ireland and Wales. While we’re doing the sorrys that is.

I'm sure I'm not the only struggling to figure out what you're on about now?

What a great event it would be if Japan were to top the pool and go on to face their old rivals SA in the QF. I don't think it will be a repeat of the pre-world cup game, this Japan team is different now. SA will probably win of course. The boks do play a bit like Ireland though, so if Japan bring their A game again then there's no reason to not believe it will be a contest. By this point it's a Japan team at home, in their world cup, with all the momentum they've ever had.

Taylorman wrote:True, being coached, captained and choc full of SHers helps. well, it’s the primary reason for it.

All Scotland, Wales and Ireland bring to this tournament is their 6N teams. Nothing more, nothing less. Always have. That’s why they get nowhere. Other sides do the work, thats why England is the only NH chance.

Sorry Scotland, Ireland and Wales. While we’re doing the sorrys that is.

How can a man be so consistently wrong, yet so consistently confident?



Oh...

SecretFly wrote:

miaow wrote:And, oh, we did laugh...

Being beaten but Japan is a rite of passage.  We're honoured to have joined the list.

Yeah Im not too fussed, we arent to only side to lose to lower ranked teams in the RWC. Take it on the chin and move on.

SecretFly wrote:

Being beaten but Japan is a rite of passage.  We're honoured to have joined the list.

I was meant to ask you... how's the next life as a ghost?

You do realise (although I suspect collapse mightn't) that all Irelanders are now merely spiritual non-entities... puffs of dust...  having been vanquished by the mighty Samurai sword. It will be as though you never existed.  

You can never return to your favourite sushi train restaurant now and even if you somehow managed to do it you'd never be able to capture the attention of the waitress for the bill. (maybe not a bad thing, huh?)

Hang on... I see our wimmin got beat by the Geishas in da basketball the other day. Free sushi forever!!

Amen.

Pal Joey wrote:



Hang on... I see our wimmin got beat by the Geishas in da basketball the other day. Free sushi forever!!

Amen.

Ya see!  Feels good, doesn't it.  The Japanese.  They smile so warmly and cut you into a thousand pieces before your eyes bounce to the ground.  Painless.  Everybody loves getting beat by the Japanese; at least those of us lucky enough to experience it.[/quote]

For people interest in such things, Ireland carried the Raeburn Shield into the World Cup and lost it in their pool match to Japan.

If Scotland beat Japan without a bonus point and get eliminated, they'll take the Raeburn Shield home with them. Therefore 2019 would be the first time a team has won a World Cup Final without either holding the Shield or winning both simultaneously.

http://www.raeburnshield.com/

Nice stat. Think its Japans 2nd time to hold it?

Collapse2005 wrote:Nice stat. Think its Japans 2nd time to hold it?

Yes they held it in 2013, which was news to me.

They beat Wales that year, who beat England in Cardiff (in a match that has been expunged from my memory...) who got it from NZ in December 2012 (Lancaster's finest moment?).

Weirdest former winner has to be Romania who won it from Scotland - although that was before my time and I hear they used to be fairly handy?

Samoa are the only other Tier 2 team to have won it.

robbo277 wrote:For people interest in such things, Ireland carried the Raeburn Shield into the World Cup and lost it in their pool match to Japan.

If Scotland beat Japan without a bonus point and get eliminated, they'll take the Raeburn Shield home with them. Therefore 2019 would be the first time a team has won a World Cup Final without either holding the Shield or winning both simultaneously.

http://www.raeburnshield.com/

So you are saying if we get knocked out of the pool stages of this sham competition but beat Japan then we'll go home with the title of heavyweight champions of the world?

I'll take it!

Typhoon forecast course is now more towards Japan. If any game is going to be affected, then it'll most likely be Ireland against Samoa in Fukuoka.

https://www.jma.go.jp/en/typh/

The course can change - that's what happened to the last one - and the typhoon is currently expected to weaken before it makes landfall. One to watch over the next few days.

We'll have the added bonus of saying that its a devalued World Cup win too, only counts if you also take the Raeburn shield home too obviously

(Unless England win of course)

Rugby Fan wrote:Typhoon forecast course is now more towards Japan. If any game is going to be affected, then it'll most likely be Ireland against Samoa in Fukuoka.

https://www.jma.go.jp/en/typh/

The course can change - that's what happened to the last one - and the typhoon is currently expected to weaken before it makes landfall. One to watch over the next few days.

Typhoon Hagibis

The Scots are up to something nefarious

robbo277 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Nice stat. Think its Japans 2nd time to hold it?

Yes they held it in 2013, which was news to me.

They beat Wales that year, who beat England in Cardiff (in a match that has been expunged from my memory...) who got it from NZ in December 2012 (Lancaster's finest moment?).

Weirdest former winner has to be Romania who won it from Scotland - although that was before my time and I hear they used to be fairly handy?

Samoa are the only other Tier 2 team to have won it.

Romania used to have teams in the Heineken cup so back then in the early days they were a bit better.

Exactly.  A Typhoon called Hagibis in Fukuoka.  I mean, come on - coincidences like that don't happen in Nature.  I have a feeling Ireland are going to get Fuked over with this artificially created storm.

SecretFly wrote:Exactly.  A Typhoon called Hagibis in Fukuoka.  I mean, come on - coincidences like that don't happen in Nature.  I have a feeling Ireland are going to get Fuked over with this artificially created storm.

The storm was created with hot air produced by some posters on here I think!

In all seriousness though, if (big IF) Scotland beat Japan with a BP but Japan also get a LBP, and Ireland vs Samoa is a draw due to Typhoon "fecked ya" could that result in Ireland going home???

Conspiracy theorists believe weather manipulation for war fare already exists. The HAARP research facility in Alaska is there for that reason.

tigertattie wrote:

robbo277 wrote:For people interest in such things, Ireland carried the Raeburn Shield into the World Cup and lost it in their pool match to Japan.

If Scotland beat Japan without a bonus point and get eliminated, they'll take the Raeburn Shield home with them. Therefore 2019 would be the first time a team has won a World Cup Final without either holding the Shield or winning both simultaneously.

http://www.raeburnshield.com/

So you are saying if we get knocked out of the pool stages of this sham competition but beat Japan then we'll go home with the title of heavyweight champions of the world?

I'll take it!

Pretty much

tigertattie wrote:In all seriousness though, if (big IF) Scotland beat Japan with a BP but Japan also get a LBP, and Ireland vs Samoa is a draw due to Typhoon "fecked ya" could that result in Ireland going home???

If the Samoa match is declared a draw, there is definitely a scenario where Ireland gets knocked out.

Rugby Fan wrote:

tigertattie wrote:In all seriousness though, if (big IF) Scotland beat Japan with a BP but Japan also get a LBP, and Ireland vs Samoa is a draw due to Typhoon "fecked ya" could that result in Ireland going home???

If the Samoa match is declared a draw, there is definitely a scenario where Ireland gets knocked out.

See, part of me now really wants Ireland vs Samoa to get typhooned off! Scotland would go through and Japan who have been great also go through.

Japan going through would be great for the World Cup

Ireland not going through on a technicallity would be horrendous for the world cup though!

It would make the organizers look very bad.

Current standings

Japan - Pld 3, Pts 14, PD +46
Ireland - Pld 3, Pts 11, PD +52
Scotland - Pld 2, Pts 5, PD +10

Let's take as read Scotland beat Russia with a TBP.

Updated standings

Japan - Pld 3, Pts 14, PD +46
Ireland - Pld 3, Pts 11, PD +52
Scotland - Pld 3, Pts 10, PD +10 (+20?)

The next game is Ireland vs Samoa. Ranking the possibilities from most likely to least likely:

Ireland win with a bonus point

Ireland - Pld 4, Pts 16, PD +52 (+20?)
Japan - Pld 3, Pts 14, PD +46
Scotland - Pld 3, Pts 10, PD +10 (+20?)

Ireland are through.

If Japan win, draw or lose with 2 bonus points, they'll go through as group winners due to either a superior points total or a superior head-to-head in the tied points scenario. Scotland will be out.

If Scotland beat Japan and Japan don't pick up 2 bonus points, then Scotland are in with a chance. They'll need to take 4 more match points than Japan (5-1 or 4-0) to finish level with Japan and second on a head-to-head record.

Ireland win without a bonus point

Ireland - Pld 4, Pts 15, PD +52 (+10?)
Japan - Pld 3, Pts 14, PD +46
Scotland - Pld 3, Pts 10, PD +10 (+20?)

If Japan win, draw or lose with 2 bonus points, they'll go through as group winners due to a superior points total. Scotland will be out as the best they can do will be 15 points and tie with Ireland, which will see them out.

If Japan finish with no match points, they'll definitely be out as Scotland will take at least 4 and Japan will have the worse head-to-head record. Scotland will definitely be second, as they'll either have 14 points (and trump Japan on head-to-head) or 15 points (but lose out to Ireland on head-to-head).

If Scotland win 4-1 on match points, Japan top the group on head-to-head, Ireland come second and Scotland finish on the bubble with 14 points.

If Scotland win 5-1 on match points, then all three teams will be tied on 15 points. Then it will come down to points difference TO DETERMINE FIRST ONLY. This is important (if it arises). The team with the best points difference will be first. Second will then come down to results between the two teams to be separated. Ireland have a superior points difference to Japan and - in this scenario - are winning and Japan are losing. Therefore Ireland will finish with a better PD than Japan. If Ireland have the best points difference, they'll go through as first and Scotland will go through as second regardless of PD due to the head-to-head. If Scotland put a hatful of points on Russia and have the best PD, they'd top the pool in this scenario and then Japan, with a worse points difference, would still overtake Ireland on their head-to-head.

The madness here comes if Japan have 4 tries and Scotland have a hatful. The second bonus point (lose by 7) is way out of Japan's reach. It's in their interest to concede enough points to allow Scotland to overhaul Ireland's points difference. Because if Ireland top the points difference stakes, Japan are out. But if Scotland do, Japan go through. So we could have a scenario where Japan are 43-28 down after 75 minutes and Japan, knowing 2 scores for the bonus point would be a stretch, are actually better off letting Scotland score 1 or 2 to see them through.

Ireland and Samoa draw (the washout)

Japan - Pld 3, Pts 14, PD +46
Ireland - Pld 4, Pts 13, PD +52
Scotland - Pld 3, Pts 10, PD +10 (+20?)

Now this could be an actual draw or a washout, the equation doesn't change (unless Ireland get a 4 try bonus point draw...) But let's assume it's a standard two-pointer.

Japan qualify regardless. Scotland qualify with a win. If they deny Japan a bonus point or take a 5-1 match point win, they'll top the pool. If Scotland fail to win (even with a 3 point draw) they'll be out and Ireland will go through.

Ireland and Samoa high scoring draw

Japan - Pld 3, Pts 14, PD +46
Ireland - Pld 4, Pts 14, PD +52
Scotland - Pld 3, Pts 10, PD +10 (+20?)

So a high scoring draw would see Ireland on 14 points, but Japan ahead on results between the teams. This is an absolute mess.

Any Japan point would see them qualify. Scotland taking 5 points would see them qualify. The Scotland 4-0 would be the mess as described above with all three teams on 14. Essentially, it would be the same scenario, with all the quirks of the points difference and then results coming back into play.

Ireland lose

Japan - Pld 3, Pts 14, PD +46
Ireland - Pld 4, Pts 11/12, PD +52 (-5?)
Scotland - Pld 3, Pts 10, PD +10 (+20?)

Japan qualify.

Scotland need to overhaul Ireland's points total to qualify. So probably still need the win realistically, unless Ireland fail to get the bonus point.

---

TL;DR summary

*Scotland really need the TBP against Russia
*Ireland really could do with the TBP against Samoa. If they get it they're through
*If Ireland win but miss out on the TBP, then it opens up a whole mess of potential outcomes, including Japan incentivised to let Scotland score to ensure both teams qualify
*If the washout happens, Ireland fans better get their white and red facepaint out, because Ireland's fate will be decided by that Japan/Scotland game
*Japan will definitely go through if they win or draw. A bonus point in a low scoring game would always be enough to see them through

tigertattie wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

tigertattie wrote:In all seriousness though, if (big IF) Scotland beat Japan with a BP but Japan also get a LBP, and Ireland vs Samoa is a draw due to Typhoon "fecked ya" could that result in Ireland going home???

If the Samoa match is declared a draw, there is definitely a scenario where Ireland gets knocked out.

See, part of me now really wants Ireland vs Samoa to get typhooned off! Scotland would go through and Japan who have been great also go through.

Japan going through would be great for the World Cup

Ireland not going through on a technicallity would be horrendous for the world cup though!

In this scenario, Scotland and Japan would both have three wins and 1 loss. Ireland would also have that 1 loss, but would be denied the same number of wins by the weather.

It would be quite harsh on them but if you lose a game then there are no guarantees, as Japan found out last time.

Now I have a head ache

ok whose idea was it to stage an RWC during typhoon season in a typhoon ridden country. If any top 8 team's destiny is decided by wind firstly it will put Sir Clive out of a job and secondly it will mean that the entire RWC is a farce which, with the refereeing decisions such as they are (Canada v NZ is actually quite worrying) it is fast becoming.

Collapse2005 wrote:Conspiracy theorists believe weather manipulation for war fare already exists. The HAARP research facility in Alaska is there for that reason.

Precisely. Always leave some snippets of potential truth in the middle of some horseplay comments. Now also, if weather could be manipulated it obviously wouldn't be just handy in warfare, it might prove also very lucrative and beneficial in propaganda terms to yonder Globalist Panic Soothsayers that push climate change agendas and alternative 'green' technologies.

Now I have a head ache

We need Ireland to win with a bonus point or the washout draw. The Ireland 4 point win would cause too many problems!

Anyone out In Japan able to confirm the rumours of Townsend running around town doing a rain dance while chanting “I want to keep my job”