Glasgow and Edinburgh banter thread no. 23 - New season, new thread

[BigGee]

First topic message reminder :

Well a new season is probably time to start off a new thread.

2 weeks to the start of the season and both sides with one more pre season game to go. A lot of unknowns this season again, due to the number of players away with Scotland and other countries for the WC.

For Glasgow, can they continue their general excellence that took them on a fantastic end of season run to the Pro 14 Final, where they just fell short. It might be their last campaign under Dave Rennie, so can they go one better?

Edinburgh also have questions to ask, the main one being whether they can ever pass the ball past the FH and how soon before their wingers are likely to go blue from hypothermia? On a more positive note though, they may finally be playing in Mini Murrayfield by autumn 2020. So only one more year to bear playing in the library!

Good luck to both teams for the coming season, though Edinburgh are more likely to need it than Glasgow!

[BigGee]

Pro 14 a bit different to internationals, so much travelling and with Italy and now Ireland going into lockdown, not much that could be done though.

Can't see the wales v Scotland game being cancelled at thus stage and from what the Govs was saying today, they are going to let sport run on for a while, but not in Scotland.

[RDW]

You look good in green Biggee!

[tigertattie]

You look good in green Biggee!

Woah there!

We're getting a bit top heavy with Weird West Coast Supporting badge wearers in here!

What next? Jimbo as a Mod???????

[tigertattie]

No more pro14 then this year. Would be very surprised if the sco wales game continued after that announcement

I say we call it now - Edinburgh joint winners

Edinburgh were due to be flying out to SA for a double header next week. Not the easiest if trips to reschedule, if that ever becomes an option.

Play Edinburgh Vs Leinster in a grand final once everything blows over in the summer.

No point in any other teams being involved really as they are that far back.

might as well let the current top 3 in each conference join the champs cup next year too, even if it does devalue it somewhat by including Glasgow!

[BigGee]

According to reports in France, Nakarawa is staying in Glasgow for at least another season, signed on till June 2021.

Could be first bit of good new for a while!

[RDW]

Thinking about the frustrating ending to the 6N, Scotland have actually been quite lucky. We (just) played both home games so haven't missed out on any revenue, plus we managed to end on a high against France and have something to build on.

Domestically the biggest issue would be if the season is null and void, particularly if that would mean euro qualification stays at it was this season and Edinburgh stay in the challenge cup.

Obviously there's much more serious things to worry about just now, but this is a rugby forum so trying to talk some rugby...!

[EWT Spoons]

If anyone is looking for a rugby fix, Edinburgh rugby are streaming the Edinburgh vs Racing game (won't share the score to avoid spoilers ) game from 2011. 3pm Saturday on Youtube.

[RDW]

If anyone is looking for a rugby fix, Edinburgh rugby are streaming the Edinburgh vs Racing game (won't share the score to avoid spoilers ) game from 2011.  3pm Saturday on Youtube.

I missed that game to go to my wife's horse riding instructor's birthday party in Dunfermline.

True story.

[EWT Spoons]

If anyone is looking for a rugby fix, Edinburgh rugby are streaming the Edinburgh vs Racing game (won't share the score to avoid spoilers ) game from 2011.  3pm Saturday on Youtube.

I missed that game to go to my wife's horse riding instructor's birthday party in Dunfermline.

True story.

There is so much to unpick in that sentence.  

3pm GMT might be a challenge to watch this game 'live' from your new location, but I'm sure it'll be left on YouTube for a bit.

Apparently they're adding the BBC Scotland radio commentary to it.   Worth a watch

[BigGee]

To keep us all vaguely interested in rugby during this hiatus, Glasgow just announced another player who will be staying on.

Ratu Tagive gets another two years.

Bit of an enigma is our RT. The coaches all seem to love him and yet he hardly ever seems to play. I guess the fact that he is SQ now is to his advantage.

DTH has been hinting on his social media that his time in Glasgow is nearly done, which is in itself no great surprise. Maybe RT will get more game time next season if he is not there.

It would be an awful shame if DTH does not get some sort of send off as well before he heads back to Canada to become a fireman. The way things are looking though, they may have to bring him back for that!

[jimbopip]

I find one thing that cheers me up at the moment is the prospect of Uncle Naknaks and Ritchie Gleek playing together.
As for Ratu... Wilson is another coach who sees a good player there. Let's hope he stays injury free next season.

[jimbopip]

If anyone is looking for a rugby fix, Edinburgh rugby are streaming the Edinburgh vs Racing game (won't share the score to avoid spoilers ) game from 2011.  3pm Saturday on Youtube.

I missed that game to go to my wife's horse riding instructor's birthday party in Dunfermline.

So now we know the penalty for any Luvvies socialising outside Stockbridge: exile to the colonies. Puts a whole new slant on Social Distancing.

True story.

[jimbopip]

Quote fail! No extra charge

[tigertattie]

Quote fail! No extra charge

well done Grandad

In other news, what do we do about the pro 14 and the title? Surely now Edinburgh shuld be declared champions of the league or at least of Scotland?

[RDW]

Tagive won't be on a huge salary but his cost/minute played must be astronomical!

[Hazel Sapling]

Well, it now comes to what to do at the end of the season in terms of clearing out players and sorting out what our squads are going to look like.

Glasgow are losing

- Big earner in J Gray and replacing him with his brother

- Fairly big earner in Gibbins to be replaced by Nakarawa

- Decent earner in DTH who is not being replaced directly and could be the salary for the new TH from Exeter

Likely off?:
Fusaro (Retiring)
M Smith
Frisbee (Please)
R Hughes (?)
Swinson (Retiring)
Ashe (?)
Thomson

[jimbopip]

Well, it now comes to what to do at the end of the season in terms of clearing out players and sorting out what our squads are going to look like.

Glasgow are losing

- Big earner in J Gray and replacing him with his brother

- Fairly big earner in Gibbins to be replaced by Nakarawa

- Decent earner in DTH who is not being replaced directly and could be the salary for the new TH from Exeter

Likely off?:
Fusaro (Retiring)
M Smith
Frisbee (Please)
R Hughes (?)
Swinson (Retiring)
Ashe (?)
Thomson

Hazel, with Gibbins and Fozzie off I would be delighted to see Matt Smith back. He really looked a player ( in the same way Lord Stafford, the House Elf and Grant Stewart have) before his injury. I think he suffered from Dunbar-Oblomov syndrome in that; Gibbins, Mullett, Fozzie and Batman can all play 7. I really believe that Smith could have a big future at Scotstoun and should be given another chance.

As for Why? Can you imagine being an older pro and turning up at training to be told you'll be competing for the second spot with Little Big Horne and the House Elf? MadMadMata is a better fourth choice 9 since he can play at the pace demanded. However, DR didn't see him as a 9 so that was that.

Swinson has been a great player for the club and should retire with all our thanks and respect. Naka-Cummings-Gray in the 23 won't look too pedestrian.

Brandon Thompson? Is he another who might have stepped up if DR had rotated players a bit more? We'll never know.

[Hazel Sapling]

I agree on Former Dr Who Jimbo but it looks like he is off. I do wonder how Wynne has been getting on at London Scots where he has been starting and whether that would be a good swap if he has been doing well.

Thomson is a weird one. At one point, he looked like he could turn into a true second option but his development has not kicked on and he is NSQ I think. We really need to find a young Scots options for that spot. Surely there is a recent u20 FH who is worth a shot?

[BigGee]

I agree on Former Dr Who Jimbo but it looks like he is off. I do wonder how Wynne has been getting on at London Scots where he has been starting and whether that would be a good swap if he has been doing well.

Thomson is a weird one. At one point, he looked like he could turn into a true second option but his development has not kicked on and he is NSQ I think. We really need to find a young Scots options for that spot. Surely there is a recent u20 FH who is worth a shot?

Chamberlain, this years model did indeed look pretty handy and certainly has potential, he scored a hat trick in the hammering of Wales and nailed every kick. He is currently with Bristol Bears, but hard to see him getting any game time there. They really should be looking at him.

Nothing confirmed or otherwise for Gibbens, so not clear if he will be coming or going. Fusaro does actually have another year on contract, so I would imagine will be around for that time and in truth is a good squad playing back up at times of crisis. With the two highly promising 7s in the U20s Darge and Boyle, surely some room is going to have to be made for them somewhere and ideally one to each professional team.

[jimbopip]

Agreed Hazel. Wynn-Fagerson-Smith looked like a back row to be reckoned with. However, two of them were let go.
It looks like DR's stewardship will end not with a bang but with a whimper. A poor first season, a good second but very much a meh finale. My biggest concern was always the way he flogged players to exhaustion and when squad players came in they never really got a decent run: see Brandon Thompson.
From what I can gather Wynn has been playing well at LS but it's way below Pro 14 level.

[Hazel Sapling]

Who is in and out for Edinburgh entering next season?

[mikey_dragon]

Is Blade Thomson joining you? He seems to have disappeared. Did he get concussion and take some time off, I think that was it?

[mikey_dragon]

I agree on Former Dr Who Jimbo but it looks like he is off. I do wonder how Wynne has been getting on at London Scots where he has been starting and whether that would be a good swap if he has been doing well.

Thomson is a weird one. At one point, he looked like he could turn into a true second option but his development has not kicked on and he is NSQ I think. We really need to find a young Scots options for that spot. Surely there is a recent u20 FH who is worth a shot?

Chamberlain, this years model did indeed look pretty handy and certainly has potential, he scored a hat trick in the hammering of Wales and nailed every kick. He is currently with Bristol Bears, but hard to see him getting any game time there. They really should be looking at him.

Nothing confirmed or otherwise for Gibbens, so not clear if he will be coming or going. Fusaro does actually have another year on contract, so I would imagine will be around for that time and in truth is a good squad playing back up at times of crisis. With the two highly promising 7s in the U20s Darge and Boyle, surely some room is going to have to be made for them somewhere and ideally one to each professional team.

Protheroe was a 10/15 has moved on so Chamberlain could break into the Bristol team. Lam likes to promote the young guys from within. I imagine Ioan Lloyd could move on by the time he is 20/21 too, I think he's 19 now. Madigan has also moved on but didn't feature this season anyway.

Your big lock forward in the U20 game vs Wales was pretty good too, you should keep an eye on him.

[BigGee]

Is Blade Thomson joining you? He seems to have disappeared. Did he get concussion and take some time off, I think that was it?

He had a really long concussion lay off last year, then hardly played for the Scarlets at all post WC. All gone a bit quiet on him really, but I think he took another head knock and you have got to be worried about his career from here onwards.

Edinburgh certainly don't need another No.8 nor backrow, they are overflowing with them atm and can't give the ones they have got the game time they need. If he was to come to Scotland Glasgow would be a better fit, but I think unfortunately that injury may have done him.

[RDW]

Great quiz

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/quiz/the-big-fat-scottish-rugby-quarantine-quiz/

27/40 - thought I did better than that!

[tigertattie]

24 for me and that was with some good guesses.

Some of those questions are pretty darn difficult!

I didnt know any player lead a Romanian through the vaults to defect to the UK let alone his name!!!

[jimbopip]

Gadzooks lads I only managed a paltry n-n-n- nineteen.

Maybe there is too much poetry rolling and tumbling between my ears.
I'll eject some to make room for Scottish Rugby trivia.

The boy stood on the burning deck
His lip was all a quiver
He gave a cough
His leg fell off
And floated down the river.

That's cleared 80% of my RAM.

[tigertattie]

Gadzooks lads  I only managed a paltry n-n-n- nineteen.

Maybe there is too much poetry rolling and tumbling between my ears.
I'll eject some to make room for Scottish Rugby trivia.

The boy stood on the burning deck
His lip was all a quiver
He gave a cough
His leg fell off
And floated down the river.

That's cleared 80% of my RAM.

There once was a man from Nantucket..........

[jimbopip]

They call her Nell
From Camberwell
Although she comes from Twickers

[RDW]

There's been some major announcements from the SRU today - surprised no one has picked them up.

The first is that all senior executives and head coaches are taking a 'deferred' pay cut of 25-30%, which will be paid back in August. Not sure what the point of that is as I can't imagine we're going to get a new influx of cash by that point. They're also the only sports organisation I have seen who have deferred the pay as opposed to just made a cut.

Edinburgh's new stadium is on hold, which is a massive shame.

The domestic club season has been declared null and void, which is a shame just as it was almost finished.

[Tramptastic]

Yeh im really not understanding the point of the deferral? its just pushing costs further down the line, do we know yet if the players are going to be taking a cut or a deferral?

I can understand why the stadium progress has halted, a shame but a necessary one!

Absolutely ragin about the club season, certainly speaking to players from other clubs too the mood is certainly choleric! We've finished 2nd but the team in in our league who finished top, Dalkeith, had completed all their games and were unassailable from the remaining games to be played.

Apparently the vote was split. There was 5/6 solutions, 1 solution was "declare the season null/void" the other 4/5 were various forms of how to finish the season. This split the "complete the season" vote so the null vote won easily. Absolute erseholes.

[tigertattie]

It was a loaded vote where the sensible bit not given option would have been to end the season with the current points teams
Had already won with unfinished games declared draws.

Funnily enough the teams at risk of relegation voted to void the season which took the most votes so here we are.

SRU have in the last few years gone from Making progress, balancing the books and bringing on talent to alienating the member clubs, firing Vern, failing to get to the WC QF and dragging us through Sue-nammy-gate

Well done SRU. Well done.

[RDW]

It was a loaded vote where the sensible bit not given option would have been to end the season with the current points teams
Had already won with unfinished games declared draws.

Funnily enough the teams at risk of relegation voted to void the season which took the most votes so here we are.

SRU have in the last few years gone from Making progress, balancing the books and bringing on talent to alienating the member clubs, firing Vern, failing to get to the WC QF and dragging us through Sue-nammy-gate

Well done SRU. Well done.

You say that but the club my dad coaches at were looking forward to relegation as they had been getting pumped all season - that's no fun and happens quite a lot at the lower levels of rugby due to fluctuations in players year on year.

Similarly I'm sure there are clubs who need to be promtoed because they're pumping everyone else.

[Tramptastic]

It was a loaded vote where the sensible bit not given option would have been to end the season with the current points teams
Had already won with unfinished games declared draws.

Funnily enough the teams at risk of relegation voted to void the season which took the most votes so here we are.

SRU have in the last few years gone from Making progress, balancing the books and bringing on talent to alienating the member clubs, firing Vern, failing to get to the WC QF and dragging us through Sue-nammy-gate

Well done SRU. Well done.

You say that but the club my dad coaches at were looking forward to relegation as they had been getting pumped all season - that's no fun and happens quite a lot at the lower levels of rugby due to fluctuations in players year on year.

Similarly I'm sure there are clubs who need to be promtoed because they're pumping everyone else.

Yeh so our league was happy for the league winners Dalkeith to get promoted and for Inverleith to be relegated from the league above - Inverleith not having won a single game all season due to a player exodus. You'd have thought a general gentlemans agreement would have prevailed, i.e. Dalkeith asking Inverleith directly if they want to be relegated which you'd have suspected they would have been happy to.

Introducing 4 alternate options split the vote and very much seems an intentional maneuver by the SRU to avoid difficult discussions with the clubs

[Tramptastic]

Biggar appealing the decision suggesting they weren't aware it was a formal vote! https://www.theoffsideline.com/biggar-decide-to-appeal-sru-decision-to-block-promotion-into-premiership/

[king_carlos]

It was a loaded vote where the sensible bit not given option would have been to end the season with the current points teams
Had already won with unfinished games declared draws.

Funnily enough the teams at risk of relegation voted to void the season which took the most votes so here we are.

SRU have in the last few years gone from Making progress, balancing the books and bringing on talent to alienating the member clubs, firing Vern, failing to get to the WC QF and dragging us through Sue-nammy-gate

Well done SRU. Well done.

You say that but the club my dad coaches at were looking forward to relegation as they had been getting pumped all season - that's no fun and happens quite a lot at the lower levels of rugby due to fluctuations in players year on year.

Similarly I'm sure there are clubs who need to be promtoed because they're pumping everyone else.

I was in that position to a few years back. I was one of the early players involved in my Edinburgh club developing a 3rd team when I first moved to Uni up her. We developed a really strong reserve squad consisting largely of students. It was great fun, things fell together with a varied group of blokes both undergrad and postgrad with a few hanging around after studying. Attacking rugby, solid set-piece coached by a recently retired 1st teamer who was cutting his teeth coaching.

The team got promoted a couple of times but the second promotion came as a large number of guys had to leave Edinburgh for work. The next season was diabolical and by the time relegation came around it was a blessing. Due to the reserve leagues often being restructured we got given the choice of staying in the higher league (now under a new name) but asked to go down so we could rebuild it as a development side.

Biggar have invested a fair bit of money in facilities and players in recent years from my understanding so unsurprising they are appealing really. Given the lack of money in club rugby I think Biggar going up to the new Premiership would be the best thing for Scottish rugby. Their set-up has improved a lot in a few years.

Similar with Highland coming up the rails. Were they to finish 2nd behind a Super 6 sides 'club XV' next season I'd hope they would go up to the Premiership instead for the good of the club game.

[jimbopip]

I have heard two rumours today.
Nomaits is returning north of the wall. Whether a Luvvie or a rugby player remains to be ironed out.
Matt Smith looks set to pursue a career as a knitwear model on the east coast.

[RDW]

Don't need him at Edinburgh. Glasgow definitely need wingers! Although they've already got their share of geriatrics.

[RDW]

Biggar are appealing their lack of promotion, and rightly so - they had already won the league and been presented the trophy! Surely common sense has to prevail.

[jimbopip]

Don't need him at Edinburgh. Glasgow definitely need wingers! Although they've already got their share of geriatrics.

I've got a feeling both NoMaits and Matt Smith are contracted to the SRU so either they play in Scotland or their loaned out to someone. Both will be on decent salaries, which might make them expensive for some premiership clubs.

NoMaits is a gamble because he's, in all likelihood, looking at a last contract and some clubs might wonder about his motivation.

Matt Smith, conversely, is in the very early stages of his career and clubs might ask themselves, "Why were Glasgow so keen to get shot of him?".

Persnally, I'd take both of them back at Scotstoun; NoMaits has always wanted to play 15 and until Ollie Smith comes through it's Bryce or Jacko. That's if Jacko gets another year. So we could use a wing/full back squad payer. At 7 we have; Mullet, Batman or Fozzie. I am assuming that Gibbins is offski. Batman and Fozzie are getting long in the tooth and Toonie has already started to include Mullet in Scotland squads: another 7 would come in handy.

[NeilyBroon]

Matt Smith at Edinburgh concerns me, there's already a wealth of backrow options there especially when you consider the international competition. That being said, he'd have a good chance to break through during the international windows. Cockers has been good at bringing forwards through like Haining, Crosbie etc and was doing a good job with Bradbury although who knows what Bradbury will show up to a game. Let's hope if this is true he gets enough opportunity otherwise he'll be another case of "What might have been". I'm surprised Maits isn't plumbing for a French club, he's certainly got the pedigree, maybe the SRU have had a quiet word. He could definitely be first choice FB at Warriors and would be a great mentor for Smith, who I definitely think is ready to break into the pro league. Again, I'd be concerned if they wanted to shoehorn him in at Edinburgh - Kinghorn needs to keep playing at FB there as I get the impression he could fall by the wayside with Hogg captaining Scotland, unless he makes wing his permanent position. Very much a 2020 Chris Paterson situation.

[jimbopip]

Personally, I think Blarehorn is less effective at wing. It's a bit like playing Matt Scott12 at 13 because...well, he's such a good centre we have to play him.

[NeilyBroon]

Personally, I think Blarehorn is less effective at wing. It's a bit like playing Matt Scott12 at 13 because...well, he's such a good centre we have to play him.

I agree but he'd get about 5 minutes at fullback a game for Scotland if he played there. Its a rock and a hard place really. Unless Hoggy ends up injured again he won't get the chance but when Kinghorn is on song he's a brilliant player to have. When Graham comes back though it's hard to see how he'll fit in other than as a utility back on the bench, Paterson style.

[BigGee]

Probably worth notinv the passing of an ex Scotland Dougie Morgan.

I remember him well from my early dsys of watching Scotland play in the 1970s and i may be wrong on this one but is he not Charlie Sheils Grandfather?

He was a very good player and captain in his day and seems to have gond to sokn unfortunately

[jimbopip]

Dougie Morgan, I seem to remember he was captain when Scotland were losing 6-3 in the final minutes at Landsdowne Road and Scotland were awarded a penalty right in front of the posts. Rather than draw the match he elected to scrum. When the Irish crowd realised what he had done they gave him a huge ovation. Bill MacLaren was glowing in his comments about the "spirit of the game and the sportsmanship of the crowd".

Scotland failed to score from the scrum and lost the game....but it's not always about winning or losing. Or drawing.

[BigGee]

Yes, i remember that about him as well.

I bet he would not do that today!

[RDW]

Dougie Morgan, I seem to remember he was captain when Scotland were losing 6-3 in the final minutes at Landsdowne Road and Scotland were awarded a penalty right in front of the posts. Rather than draw the match he elected to scrum. When the Irish crowd realised what he had done they gave him a huge ovation. Bill MacLaren was glowing in his comments about the "spirit of the game and the sportsmanship of the crowd".

Scotland failed to score from the scrum and lost the game....but it's not always about winning or losing. Or drawing.

Good to know some things have always been!

[123456789.]

Apparently the Pro14 could plump for an Edinburgh-Leinster final to tie up the season. I actually think it would be fairer not to play it at all. Winning a league should be an achievement not a box ticking exercise. I'd be delighted if Edinburgh did win it mind. Although it should prompt a re-evaluation of the respective mottos. Glasgow's 'Whatever it takes' involved rugby games. Edinburgh's 'Whatever it takes' would have involved a long term journey from oblivion and journeymen, Cockerill and the green shoots of recovery and then an international pandemic and months of self-isolation, all to reach a Pro14 final.

[RDW]

I'd take that, but they should at least have a playoff of some kind instead of straight final. You can't go months with no Rugby then straight into a final!

Could do it over a month

Week 1 - warmup game
Week 2 - final interpro derby (so all teams get a season ender)
Week 3 - semi finals, 1 v 2 in each conference
Week 4 - final

[123456789.]

Yeah I like that idea, depending on the situation at that point would be nice to see a best of the rest Conference One vs Conference Two fixture before or after with any proceeds going to Coronavirus victims families, or to an area particularly hit by the disease.

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