England's Winter

by **LondonTiger** Mon 16 Sep 2019, 2:22 pm

New Zealand

T20 Internationals

Friday November 1st - Christchurch
Sunday November 3rd - Wellington
Tuesday November 5th - Nelson
Friday November 8th - Napier
Sunday November 10th - Auckland

Squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Tom Banton (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Pat Brown (Worcestershire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)

Tests

Wednesday November 20th - Tauranga
Thursday November 28th - Hamilton

Squad
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Warwickshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)

South Africa

Tests

Thursday 26th December - Centurion
Friday January 3rd - Cape Town
Thursday January 16th - Port Elizabeth
Friday January 24th - Johannesburg

Squad
TBC

ODI
Tuesday 4th February - Cape Town
Friday 7th February - Durban
Sunday 9th February - Johannesburg

Squad
TBC

T20 Internationals

Wednesday 12th February - East London
Friday 14th February - Durban
Sunday 16th February - Centurion

Sri Lanka

March 7th - Warm up 1, Katunayake (3 day)
March 12th - Warm up 2, Colombo (3 day)
March 19th - 1st Test, Galle
March 27th - 2nd Test, Colombo

by Gooseberry Mon 16 Sep 2019, 2:27 pm

No ODIs in NZ? Its the only proper form of cricket Whistle

! And what an insult to New Zealander of the year and world cup winner Ben Stokes.

That Sri Lanka tour is f'ing ridiculous and another nail in county crickets coffin.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 16 Sep 2019, 2:29 pm

Not sure when the squads for the first leg of the winter activity will be named - probably before the new Head Coach. With the World T20 late next year the selectors and team management will be looking to spend the whole year getting ready. However we do need to "fix" the test lineup. Apart from Joe Root I would probably play all the multi format players in the 5 T20s in NZ, but anyone who wants to be in the test team I would omit from both sets of limited overs fixtures in SA. This would send the message that we are serious about test cricket and also allow some other players to be looked at.

Morgan should be the limited overs skipper for the rest of this year and through to the T20 World Cup - then a decision on his fitness can be made.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 16 Sep 2019, 2:30 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
That Sri Lanka tour is f'ing ridiculous and another nail in county crickets coffin.

Especially crazy as we were there last winter. I assume the intention is to try and fit some games in for the World Test Championship.

by robbo277 Mon 16 Sep 2019, 2:50 pm

It's Wikipedia but if you look at reference 2 you can get the ICC future tours programme.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_cricket_team_in_Sri_Lanka_in_2019%E2%80%9320

Two tests in Sri Lanka in March/early April. No white ball at all. Literally just getting the WTC matches signed off and moving on. Probably won't interfere with county cricket at all? Might be more worrying for people looking for IPL contracts, depending on the exact dates.

Scrolling through that future tours programme, the next Ashes series down under is scheduled to start just after the World T20 tournament concludes...

by Duty281 Mon 16 Sep 2019, 2:58 pm

Wow, so there's a T20 World Cup taking place in 2020 and in 2021. Bloody pointless.

IPL and the Big Bash - there's your World T20.

by Gooseberry Mon 16 Sep 2019, 3:39 pm

Some test players will likely miss the first few fixtures for rest and others will be at the IPL.

The summer schedule is a bit odd with just two low key tests series and a lot of short white ball series as prep for the world T20 and chumps trophy.

Maybe the CC won't be as depleted as it was this year and hopefully the 100 wont be unduly affected (cough) but all round it's a really odd schedule which will require a fair bit of good management to juggle players and avoid more burn out.

I guess it's about as easy a bunch of tests as a new coach could have hoped for in a bedding in period, but not an easy schedule and a bit of a hospital pass of a squad to inherit.

by robbo277 Mon 16 Sep 2019, 4:41 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Some test players will likely miss the first few fixtures for rest and others will be at the IPL.

The summer schedule is a bit odd with just two low key tests series and a lot of short white ball series as prep for the world T20 and chumps trophy.

Maybe the CC won't be as depleted as it was this year and hopefully the 100 wont be unduly affected (cough) but all round it's a really odd schedule which will require a fair bit of good management to juggle players and avoid more burn out.

I guess it's about as easy a bunch of tests as a new coach could have hoped for in a bedding in period, but not an easy schedule and a bit of a hospital pass of a squad to inherit.

Someone in cricket I follow (can't remember who) tweeted that the county championship would be more marginalised next year. Can't find anything to support this though.

by Soul Requiem Mon 16 Sep 2019, 6:24 pm

Good to see Joe Clarke return to form today, too soon to be selected I presume but a definite option if the future if his blacklisting is only temporary.

by Gooseberry Mon 16 Sep 2019, 8:18 pm

Think about it ...theres "only" 8 tests in the winter but they are more spread out an over 3 continents. Theres also a bunch of T20s to play before this season ends and some other domestic nonsense.
Theres hardly a break before the trip to NZ.
Even those players not already on the I hired list will need testing, an actual proper break not just a week over Christmas.
The test schedule ends as the county season and ipl starts. Although theres not many tests theres a lot of white ball and the Australia trip for the world cup at the end of the season...expect players to be rested.
But more than that itll be the scheduling of the domestic season. White ball and internationals will boss the weekends with CC matches relegated largely to weekdays and clashes with the tests.
The 50 overs games are all in July and August, ie the school holidays and theoretical best weather so I assume very little CC in that period.

The change to the structure of the CC season in theory improves stability for the top counties ( no more Surrey relegation fights!) but to my mind diminishes the level of play further and dilutes the talent even more. The clashes with IPL make it harder to attract top talent too, and theres no way with a T20 world cup looming they will restrict any EQPs from attending. Prices will be high for the world cup stars too.
Counties just aren't going to invest big money in attracting top overseas talent when they can win the thing without it and the income from it is minimal. That's not good for providing an environment where players have to be of test standard to thrive. The economics of first class cricket is to my mind the biggest reason why England have some amazing cricketers and a very patchy test side. It just doesn't pay the players or counties to focus on that and things will only get worse year on year till someone has the guts and honesty to do something real about it and make the CC a competitive environment with elite players. That might mean a much reduced first division and regional franchises.

Mind the 100 is going to be the only thing anyone cares about anyway.

by king_carlos Tue 17 Sep 2019, 1:43 am

Openers: Burns, Denly, Sibley
Batsman: Bairstow, Northeast, Pope, Root
All rounders: Stokes
Wicket-keepers: Buttler, Foakes
Seamers: Anderson, Archer, Broad, Curran, Woakes
Spinners: Leach

That's what I'd like to see as a 16 man squad for the NZ Tests. I'd rest Bairstow, Root and Woakes for the 5 T20s. Then go full strength for the tests.

To get the best out of Bairstow I think he needs to bat 5 and concentrate on batting not keeping. Similarly for Buttler, I think that if his best place in the order is 7 then he needs to be keeping. As a bit of wicket-keeping zealot I would select Foakes as the long term keeper but I do see the huge potential that Buttler offers at 7 with the bat.

If a seamer were to miss out for a spinner then I'd love to see Matt Parkinson given a shot in the squad.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 17 Sep 2019, 7:29 am

robbo277 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Some test players will likely miss the first few fixtures for rest and others will be at the IPL.

The summer schedule is a bit odd with just two low key tests series and a lot of short white ball series as prep for the world T20 and chumps trophy.

Maybe the CC won't be as depleted as it was this year and hopefully the 100 wont be unduly affected (cough) but all round it's a really odd schedule which will require a fair bit of good management to juggle players and avoid more burn out.

I guess it's about as easy a bunch of tests as a new coach could have hoped for in a bedding in period, but not an easy schedule and a bit of a hospital pass of a squad to inherit.

Someone in cricket I follow (can't remember who) tweeted that the county championship would be more marginalised next year. Can't find anything to support this though.

With no CC during the 100, it apparently means we will see the games pushed to April and September even more. There is talk of moving into March with each side having a home and away fixture in UAE

by **LondonTiger** Tue 17 Sep 2019, 7:40 am

Reports that Root, Stokes and Archer ser to miss T20s in NZ.

by Gooseberry Tue 17 Sep 2019, 7:50 am

Presumably so they will be fit for the hastily arranged 100 ball fixtures to be shoehorned into the schedule

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 17 Sep 2019, 10:19 am

Parkinson, Mahmood and Stone - how likely?

I’d drop Bairstow and Woakes at least, for a rest, and maybe Buttler too. Tempted by Crawley

by VTR Tue 17 Sep 2019, 10:23 am

If they want to give Stokes a break, what about Darren Stevens? Very Happy

by dummy_half Tue 17 Sep 2019, 10:35 am

VTR wrote:If they want to give Stokes a break, what about Darren Stevens?

Must be careful rushing these guys in before they are ready

by Gooseberry Tue 17 Sep 2019, 1:07 pm

Jokes aside I see little evidence to suggest crawley is ready or needed.
Hes got a first class average of 32 and 36 this season. Denly Burns and Sibley are all justifying selection with far better performances. He may have a future, but it shouldn't be as a drinks carrier / new ball fodder this winter.
Get him coached and playing any lions 4 day games.

by **Afro** Tue 17 Sep 2019, 1:11 pm

Are we going to see any of the new young guns given a go in the T20 series in NZ.

Thinking about the likes of Banton, who is rumoured to be on the list of some BBL and IPL franchises

by **LondonTiger** Tue 17 Sep 2019, 1:28 pm

The Times wrote:Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid are set to lose their central Test contracts when the new list is announced this week.

The ECB is to reveal the list of 11 players who will be given lucrative longer-form contracts, worth up to £650,000 a year. There are ten players on the Test contract list at present: Ali, Rashid, Joe Root, James Anderson, Stuart Broad, Jonny Bairstow, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes, Sam Curran and Jos Buttler.

Ali, 32, and Rashid, 31, will be removed from that list and given white ball-only contracts, with Joe Denly, Rory Burns and Jofra Archer set to be added to the Test list. Ali was dropped from England’s Test team after defeat in the first Ashes match at Edgbaston and he has been surpassed by Jack Leach as the frontline spinner. Eleven white-ball only contracts will also be announced on Friday by Ashley Giles, the director of England men’s cricket, with Alex Hales, 30, set to lose his ECB deal after failing a recreational drugs Test earlier this year and being removed from England’s World Cup squad.

Some new faces will be named in England’s touring party for New Zealand when it is announced next week, with Ashley Giles wanting to give an extended rest to a number of players who were involved throughout the World Cup and Ashes.

Root, Stokes and Archer will not play in the five-match Twenty20 series which begins on November 1. England will use the opportunity, with one eye on the World T20 in 13 months’ time, to blood new players such as the Somerset opening batsman Tom Banton, 20, and the Lancashire seam bowler Saqib Mahmood, 22.

After the T20 series, England will play two Tests against New Zealand starting in mid-November, which are not part of the new World Test Championship.

The Surrey middle-order batsman Ollie Pope is likely to be recalled to the Test squad, probably at the expense of Jason Roy, his county team-mate. James Anderson is not expected to fully recover from a calf injury in time for the New Zealand tour, with the South Africa tour in December earmarked for his comeback.

Stokes dedicated England’s 135-run victory in the final Test at the Oval to the departing head coach Trevor Bayliss, who has left the role after four years in charge.

“I’m really glad that we managed to win this last game for him,” Stokes said. “There were a lot of things that we were playing for out there and Trev was one of them.

“I’m so glad that we got to send him off with a win because he has been amazing for English cricket.

“I’m not sure that I am looking forward to life without him in the dressing room because he’s been an amazing person to have around over the last four years.”

by **Afro** Tue 17 Sep 2019, 1:48 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
The Times wrote:Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid are set to lose their central Test contracts when the new list is announced this week.

The ECB is to reveal the list of 11 players who will be given lucrative longer-form contracts, worth up to £650,000 a year. There are ten players on the Test contract list at present: Ali, Rashid, Joe Root, James Anderson, Stuart Broad, Jonny Bairstow, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes, Sam Curran and Jos Buttler.

Ali, 32, and Rashid, 31, will be removed from that list and given white ball-only contracts, with Joe Denly, Rory Burns and Jofra Archer set to be added to the Test list. Ali was dropped from England’s Test team after defeat in the first Ashes match at Edgbaston and he has been surpassed by Jack Leach as the frontline spinner. Eleven white-ball only contracts will also be announced on Friday by Ashley Giles, the director of England men’s cricket, with Alex Hales, 30, set to lose his ECB deal after failing a recreational drugs Test earlier this year and being removed from England’s World Cup squad.

Some new faces will be named in England’s touring party for New Zealand when it is announced next week, with Ashley Giles wanting to give an extended rest to a number of players who were involved throughout the World Cup and Ashes.

Root, Stokes and Archer will not play in the five-match Twenty20 series which begins on November 1. England will use the opportunity, with one eye on the World T20 in 13 months’ time, to blood new players such as the Somerset opening batsman Tom Banton, 20, and the Lancashire seam bowler Saqib Mahmood, 22.

After the T20 series, England will play two Tests against New Zealand starting in mid-November, which are not part of the new World Test Championship.

The Surrey middle-order batsman Ollie Pope is likely to be recalled to the Test squad, probably at the expense of Jason Roy, his county team-mate. James Anderson is not expected to fully recover from a calf injury in time for the New Zealand tour, with the South Africa tour in December earmarked for his comeback.

Stokes dedicated England’s 135-run victory in the final Test at the Oval to the departing head coach Trevor Bayliss, who has left the role after four years in charge.

“I’m really glad that we managed to win this last game for him,” Stokes said. “There were a lot of things that we were playing for out there and Trev was one of them.

“I’m so glad that we got to send him off with a win because he has been amazing for English cricket.

“I’m not sure that I am looking forward to life without him in the dressing room because he’s been an amazing person to have around over the last four years.”

Fair enough! Was that posted earlier and I missed it. When was that report published by the Times?

by Soul Requiem Tue 17 Sep 2019, 2:38 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Jokes aside I see little evidence to suggest crawley is ready or needed.
Hes got a first class average of 32 and 36 this season. Denly Burns and Sibley are all justifying selection with far better performances. He may have a future, but it shouldn't be as a drinks carrier / new ball fodder this winter.
Get him coached and playing any lions 4 day games.

Far too soon for Crawley, not sure he'd be in contention at the moment if it wasn't for his surname.

by Gooseberry Tue 17 Sep 2019, 3:16 pm

I wouldve thought his surname was enough to put the selectors off really. But he was batting alongside Sibley opening for the Lions against Aus XI in what many had assumed was an audition for a test call up to partner Burns for one or the other. Hes clearly got something about him thats making the pundits eyebrows raise, but he hasnt yet turned that into anything like the weight of runs Burns did last season and Sibley has this which frankly demanded they get a go in the tests side.
I guess its as much the desperate poverty of alternatives coupled with a real need to address Englands top 3 thats led to him getting pushed as a legitimate potential test player.

But I entirely agree he hasnt done enough yet even if he has some nice technical points to earn a test place.

On that note theres a piece on cricinfo about the 26 players who debuted in the Bayliss era. You certainly cant say that England having been willing to give people a go (although maybe were a bit grudging with Burns and inexplicably havent with Sibley) .

The Bayliss era has been marked by awful talent spotting it seems. Archer aside he hasnt really bought many new in whos done much of note. Oddly one of the few guys who maybe did better than expected (Foakes) got dropped quicker than anyone.
Four spinners picked who average between 40 and 100 making Moeen and Rashid look brilliant. Leach is his 7th spinner pick and best of the bunch by a mile.

Curran, Archer, Leach, Foakes , Toblerone Jones and Hameed are the only ones who have really got great returns. One of them is pretty much out of pro cricket altogether now and two look a long way off the test team. Burns is heading in the right direction and theres an assumption that Pope will come back and be brilliant now hes a year older. The rest have been somewhere between disappointing and awful. Although Roy did do better than Warner.

by JDizzle Tue 17 Sep 2019, 3:28 pm

Crawley is on an upwards curve and looks like he will be a prospect:

31 in D2 in 2018
38 in D1 in 2019

Which is exciting for a young player, but he needs more time with the Lions and to have a big season with Kent next year. If it wasn't for the dearth in batting talent he would have been allowed to carry on improving with no-one (bar Rob Key) mentioning his name.

Northeast is the one I want to see tour, he has proven himself across several seasons now and has done the Burns thing of just scoring consistent runs.

2019 - 930 @ 55 (Div 1)
2018 - 451 @ 25 (Div 1) - suffered a broken finger in April after an early 100 in the CC, so can kind of cut him some slack for one off year.
2017 - 1017 @ 51 (Div 2)
2016 - 1337 @ 84 (Div 2)
2015 - 1168 @ 47 (Div 2)

I'm not as sold on Clarke as others - has only cracked 1000 runs once and was on a bit of a downward curve, even before all the stuff that went on this winter (although that has been going on for a while behind the scenes) and he will be playing D2 cricket next year so will be tough for him to force his way into the reckoning for a while yet.

2019 - 509 runs @ 27 (Div 1)
2018 - 853 @ 34 (Div 1)
2017 - 920 @ 44 (Div 2)
2016 - 1206 @ 48 (Div 2)
2015 - 930 @ 35 (Div 1)

by Gooseberry Tue 17 Sep 2019, 3:49 pm

Drizzle the figures season on season need some context. Openers as a whole have scored much higher this year with the change to the new dukes ball with a lower seam. Sibley is averaging 55 and even Lyth is out scoring Crawley.
Still a prospect rather than a player evidencing hes due a test call up IMO.

Northeast I'm more inclined to agree is scoring such a weight of runs that he has to be in the conversation with Pope. At the moment though the middle order spots are congested and I'd be surprised to see more than one of the two given a chance over the winter unless theres injuries.

by Soul Requiem Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:06 pm

Sam Hain is another middle order player who could in time get a call up but it does sum up the county championship that averaging mid 30's is now seen as an achievement, until they start playing at a better time for batting that won't be changing any time soon.

by JDizzle Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:57 pm

They are about the only two though? The rest of the guys at the top of the averages who have played any decent amount of games are middle order players. It’s still been tough for openers and Crawley’s figures are pretty impressive for a 21 year old - it’s not his fault the paucity of options mean he is pushed more. I agreed he isn’t ready yet, in an ideal world.

Sam Hain has such a elite List A record (averages nearly 60) I think he will work it out as he plays more red ball cricket. Having a good year this year back in Div 1, so hopefully he can do the same next year. The trouble, as with Crawley, is we have exhausted so many options we have to turn to guys before they are ready now!

by Gooseberry Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:08 pm

Only IMO we dont as we have 3 players ahead of him and dont need 4 openers.

And being the fifth best averaging opener in a a D1 season whilst not bad is hardly a ringing endorsement. Especially when it's your best season to date. Theres also Rhodes in D2 averaging 65, which maybe sums up how limp D2 is but again if we are scrapping the barrel then theres others who have done more than just show some technical promise.

Should someone get ran over or Denly revert to bring Denly he should be seriously in the conversation. Sibley Burns and Denly have all in different ways earned selection. Crawley hasn't.

What worries me is that we seem to loose players ...Hameed the most startling but remember just over a year ago it was Gubbins who was supposed to get Denlys place after the lions invested heavily in him. Hes absolutely dropped too....averaging 25 in D2!

by robbo277 Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:23 pm

Well Sibley has another ton today. BBC have him on 1000 runs for the season, although I don't know when that has been updated. He must tour with Burns and Denly, and to be honest they should be the top 3 unless Root is desperate to continue.

With Root at 4 and Stokes at 5 (assuming they only sit out the T20s) our top 5 actually starts to look like it could be halfway competent, assuming Burns and Denly kick on and improve their returns (Burns average of 39 as an opener was good enough in this series, while Denly had his best series and scored 3x 50s in his last 5 knocks).

Decisions to be made at 6 and 7 with Pope, Buttler, Bairstow and Foakes all competing for those positions. It won't surprise me if we took that top 5 and then all 4 of these guys as the 7 batsmen in the travelling squad.

Bowlers will depend on who's fit and any planned rotations. Anderson isn't fit according to LT's extract above and either Broad or Woakes could potentially sit this one out depending on fitness and their planned workloads over the summer. I'd like to see Archer and Curran in the starting team with one of Broad or Woakes and Leach as the spinner. Maybe take Stone as an option and try to out and out quicks in one of the tests?

Potential touring party (16) for two test tour of New Zealand:
Root (C), Burns, Denly, Sibley, Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Bairstow, Foakes, Woakes, Curran, Archer, Broad, Stone, Leach.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:29 pm

Tough to see Foakes cracking the XI at the moment - he’s had a awful year with the bat this year, albeit glovework is top notch as ever. But chosen a bad time to go off the boil with the bat!

Does anyone else find it a bit disconcerting they haven’t got a new coach lined up? It’s been common knowledge Bayliss has been leaving for what 9-12 months now? And they seem to be going to NZ with an interim in place. Poor planning imo

by JDizzle Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:57 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Only IMO we dont as we have 3 players ahead of him and dont need 4 openers.

And being the fifth best averaging opener in a a D1 season whilst not bad is hardly a ringing endorsement. Especially when it's your best season to date. Theres also Rhodes in D2 averaging 65, which maybe sums up how limp D2 is but again if we are scrapping the barrel then theres others who have done more than just show some technical promise.

Should someone get ran over or Denly revert to bring Denly he should be seriously in the conversation. Sibley Burns and Denly have all in different ways earned selection. Crawley hasn't.

What worries me is that we seem to loose players ...Hameed the most startling but remember just over a year ago it was Gubbins who was supposed to get Denlys place after the lions invested heavily in him. Hes absolutely dropped too....averaging 25 in D2!

I’m not saying to pick Crawley! Just highlighting he has had a good season for a 21 year old opener and is definitely on an upward curve. Not every 21 year old has to be producing Pope numbers to be a good prospect.

Rhodes averages 65 having scored 65 runs?

My team would be - Burns, Sibley, Northeast, Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Archer, Broad, Woakes, Leach.

With Curran, Bairstow, Denly, Ali, Jamie Overton. Presuming Anderson and Stone will be unfit for NZ. Jamie is a bit of a wildcard but has bowled well this year and has genuine pace, unlike Craig, and has never told an opposition player to go back to his win country, unlike Craig.

Giles has had informal meetings with some guys though hasn’t he? Certainly McDonald, so no doubt more will have happened that we don’t know about - but it does seem a bit odd, even if the party line was they didn’t want to distract from the Ashes. I wonder if Strauss will get much of a say on the final decision in his new role...

by Duty281 Tue 17 Sep 2019, 6:06 pm

Latest odds on the next permanent England test head coach (SkyBet):

Graham Ford 11/4; Silverwood 4/1; Thorpe 4/1; Stewart 6/1; Collingwood 9/1; Mickey Arthur 10/1; Gary Kirsten 12/1; Stephen Fleming 12/1...then the rest.

Selected others: Gillespie 16/1; Jayawardene 20/1; Ponting 28/1; Vaughan 50/1; Freddie 66/1; Ian Botham 150/1; KP 200/1; Tuffers 200/1.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 17 Sep 2019, 7:01 pm

Hundred for James Vince in an innings where nobody else has currently made over 22 - very impressive. He continues to hover on the periphery...

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed 18 Sep 2019, 1:26 am

Unless Vince can come in and play top 3, he’s surely out of contention just with the pure number of batsmen waiting to play beyond that. Root and Stokes are set, so there’s basically 6 and 7 up for grabs and one needs to keep.

Or they decide Root is a three and then maybe Vince is four. I’d rather Denly plays if it means Root isn’t three. But he obviously has so much talent, it’s got to be a frustration for all involved that it doesn’t kick on in tests

by king_carlos Wed 18 Sep 2019, 3:11 am

Unless one of Bairstow or Buttler are rested for the tests, I think the only change will be Pope coming in. From there the order is anyone's guess!

If Root, Stokes and Archer are rested for the T20s against NZ it would open up interesting opportunities.

1.Roy
2.Banton
3.Bairstow
4.Buttler (wk)
5.Morgan (c)
6.Billings
7.Moeen
8.Woakes
9.T Curran
10.Rashid
11.Mahmood

Will the likes of David Willey or Chris Jordan still be involved in the shortest form?

Matt Parkinson has a pretty stellar T20 record similar to Tom Banton.

by Soul Requiem Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:25 am

You'd expect that Sibley has confirmed his place in the touring party, serving notice of his return to form.

by Gooseberry Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:36 am

I hope England are moving on from the spare parts like Billings, Jordan and Willey. Plunkett too may be put going forward, he looked to past his best coming into the world cup.
Mo Rashid Dawson Denly ...is their anyone challenging them for spinner positions? Mo is a flake, Rashid is getting on and has the shoulder issue, Dawson and Denly again fit into that not quite good enough band.
Having checked Mo's blast stats though hes had a monster season, I guess the T20s would be an ideal time to start bringing him back into international cricket. I still have my doubts about him all formats but it's good to see he hasn't fallen off completely following his awful run with england.

Where the existing core players aren't available or aren't good enough I hope it's new or newish faces given a go, not the ones who have consistently not done enough in the past or who are now past their prime. Wood in that bracket too now theres other pace options standing up (Archer, Curran potentially Stone)

Hales is a difficult case. If he ends the season strongly then purely as a player it's hard to look past him as a squad member. But his recent past possible relationships with those he accuses of betraying him could be a barrier to a recall. Maybe an early difficult decision for a new coach.

Places for the t20 world cups should be open. It's hard to imagine Bairstow Roy Root (despite some criticism he cant score rapidly enough) Morgan Stokes Buttler Archer not making it, that still leaves half a squad to fill and in my opinion some well established players could be displaced, certainly those bit part place fillers from the wider squad.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 18 Sep 2019, 2:01 pm

Plunkett was very good in the World Cup, but he should be put out to pasture. Willey is still a possibility for T20 but he really should not feature in ODIs.

With Root I feel people sometimes forget 1) Just how good he was in the last T20 World Cup (3rd highest run scorer in the competition with a rate of close to 150) and 2) How little T20 he has played (Root and Roy have both played 32 T20Is but Root just 40 other T20 games with Roy an additional 160)

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 18 Sep 2019, 2:27 pm

I personally think Moeen should tour with all squads this winter - when on form, I would suggest he is still our best spinner, but when off clearly shouldn't be playing. In tests you can choose between him and Leach as to who is bowling best (Leach with first dibs, being in possession of the shirt), and in ODIs/T20s I wonder if it is now Rashid or Moeen rather than both.

Mahmood, Parkinson and Banton getting a go in the NZ T20s makes sense. Banton is a Roy-esque talent in the white ball stuff

by robbo277 Wed 18 Sep 2019, 2:29 pm

Jordan hasn't played an ODI since 2016 but has stayed in and around the T20 team all this time.

He had a couple of expensive games last summer, but had a good winter. Took 8 wickets across 4 games (despite not always bowling his full allocation) and went at about 7 an over.

Not much T20 happened in England this year (Pakistan came over and he took 1-41 off 4 in a high scoring game), but I'd be surprised if he didn't tour NZ at least.

by king_carlos Wed 18 Sep 2019, 2:45 pm

Gooseberry wrote:I hope England are moving on from the spare parts like Billings, Jordan and Willey. Plunkett too may be put going forward, he looked to past his best coming into the world cup.
Mo Rashid Dawson Denly ...is their anyone challenging them for spinner positions? Mo is a flake, Rashid is getting on and has the shoulder issue, Dawson and Denly again fit into that not quite good enough band.
Having checked Mo's blast stats though hes had a monster season, I guess the T20s would be an ideal time to start bringing him back into international cricket. I still have my doubts about him all formats but it's good to see he hasn't fallen off completely following his awful run with england.

Where the existing core players aren't available or aren't good enough I hope it's new or newish faces given a go, not the ones who have consistently not done enough in the past or who are now past their prime. Wood in that bracket too now theres other pace options standing up (Archer, Curran potentially Stone)

Hales is a difficult case. If he ends the season strongly then purely as a player it's hard to look past him as a squad member. But his recent past possible relationships with those he accuses of betraying him could be a barrier to a recall. Maybe an early difficult decision for a new coach.

Places for the t20 world cups should be open. It's hard to imagine Bairstow Roy Root (despite some criticism he cant score rapidly enough) Morgan Stokes Buttler Archer not making it, that still leaves half a squad to fill and in my opinion some well established players could be displaced, certainly those bit part place fillers from the wider squad.

I'd agree on Jordan, Willey and Plunkett. Particularly with Tom Curran looking a very good death bowler and Archer coming to the fore. Saqib Mahmood looks an excellent shorter form bowler too. Plunkett was excellent in the World Cup, so may make the T20 World Cup but there are youngsters pushing hard.

On the spinners Mo has shown fantastic form for Worcs since returning to them and Rashid is a key member of the attack. I most certainly think that Matt Parkinson can challenge Rashid going forward though as that wicket taking option in the middle overs.

Billings I'm more torn on. With Buttler and Bairstow he should be surplus to requirements but having that option to rest one of them for a series and keep Billings around isn't a bad choice. He's not an option to open in T20i and ODI such as Buttler and Bairstow but he could be a dangerous batsman down the order.

Malan must have put himself back in the equation this season if England want to rest Root for T20i.

1.Roy
2.Bairstow
3.Root
4.Morgan
5.Stokes
6.Buttler (wk) (c)
7.Moeen
8.Woakes
9.Curran
10.Archer
11.Rashid

I reckon we will be looking at something like that for the T20 World Cup. I think the batting order will be fairly flexible depending on the situation with regards to where Buttler comes out to bat.

by JDizzle Wed 18 Sep 2019, 3:08 pm

I’m intrigued to see how Parkinson goes. His record in the RL was a bit middling this season, although he’s dominated in the T20 again everytime I have seen him and the numbers back it up.

My concern is he does give it a good rip, but he does bowl really bloody slowly. Which is fine against puny county batsman but against international players they might just wallop it. You don’t see many slow leggies play international cricket. I look forward to seeing how he goes - it’ll be entertaining either way!

I did see him play last year vs Worcs, and I am not sure if he was carrying an injury or not, but he was fielding very poorly. Could barely through the ball in from the boundary. That might count against him too.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 18 Sep 2019, 3:22 pm

JDizzle wrote:I’m intrigued to see how Parkinson goes. His record in the RL was a bit middling this season, although he’s dominated in the T20 again everytime I have seen him and the numbers back it up.

My concern is he does give it a good rip, but he does bowl really bloody slowly. Which is fine against puny county batsman but against international players they might just wallop it. You don’t see many slow leggies play international cricket. I look forward to seeing how he goes - it’ll be entertaining either way!

I did see him play last year vs Worcs, and I am not sure if he was carrying an injury or not, but he was fielding very poorly. Could barely through the ball in from the boundary. That might count against him too.

When I saw him play for Lancs vs Surrey in the county championship in the summer of 2018, he was on fine leg to fine leg duty even when not bowling...so I think fielding might not be a strong suit!

by Gooseberry Wed 18 Sep 2019, 7:29 pm

In regard to Jordan I do feel the ampuntvof T20 he got in recent years was as much down to folk being rested as much as anything else. Despite what people think about him and tests Byaliss was pretty dismissive of bilateral T20s and put more stock in IPL BBL performances, he even said he isn't thi k any should be played outside the world cup.
Jordan's role in the team has been as a death bowler too, something I'm pretty sure archer has shown the range of balls and sheer pace to cover pretty well. Jordan did keep that second string team going for a while but I'd be surprised if hes persisted with. It's not even like he cant bat much, despite constantly being referred to as an all rounder hes never scored much in any format.
Billings just hasn't ever cut it at international level in any format. Theres a point where broken promiss just become Boris Johson. And yeah OK he did get some in the west indies ..but Roy did that in his second test innings and has us all going for a minute.
If they do need a third choice keeper or spare bat this winter there surely has to be an eye to the future and players who haven't fallen short in the past given a go.
If Jordan and Billings weren't good enough for a team that didn't win the last t20 cup I dont see them being good enough for one that aspires to win the next. It might be that those tried are worse, but surely it's better to give them a chance rather than continuing to better the same brick wall.

Malan is one who could get another go though I agree. It's always been a bit of a case that theres been too many world class batsmen for him to get a look in for white ball. And tests with the benefit of hindsight he was given a rough deal, hell the depths we have sunk to in the top three this year so was Hales.
In theory this years blast should be a good showcase for those looking to get a chance before the established stars start focusing on the t20 world cup.
I feel a bit for Denly that hes missed out this year. It was his white ball performances a year ago that stood out far more than his first class. He was unlucky to miss out on the 50 over world cup too, he might even have been able to get an Ipl spot if they hadn't messed him around. It looks now like hes pigeon holed as a test player and has done just enough to secure a short term future on the basis that England are desperately short of options. It's better than nothing but I do feel he had more potential to do special things in white ball than tests.

Anyway exciting times ahead in the silliest of formats.

by Jetty Thu 19 Sep 2019, 3:18 pm

Anderson not recovered!!! He had a grade one calf tear and came back too early. By the time the Test starts NZ at the end of November he will have had 3 months recuperation. Erm

Also I can't see Ali not getting central contract, since new contracts 1/10/2019 he has taken 36 wickets at 26.69, the most from all the England bowlers.

by king_carlos Thu 19 Sep 2019, 4:16 pm

Sibley surely cementing his place on tour. He's 79* from 112 balls in a day 4, 4th innings run chase. That following a century in the first innings.

I've some concerns about his trigger movement, his front leg coming across his stumps, and proclivity for trying to drive through mid-on from his stumps. He's definitely earnt his tour place though.

by robbo277 Fri 20 Sep 2019, 11:13 am

Central contracts:

Archer has been awarded a central contract across all formats. Burns red ball only. Denly white ball only.
Moeen and Rashid have been downgraded to white ball only.
Plunkett, Willey and Hales lose their white ball contracts.

Full story to follow, but it broke 40 minutes ago and the BBC haven't updated: https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/49766373

by robbo277 Fri 20 Sep 2019, 11:14 am

Thanks Sky: https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12123/11814702/jofra-archer-and-rory-burns-win-first-england-central-contracts-but-moeen-ali-loses-test-deal

Test Match
James Anderson (Lancashire), Jofra Archer (Sussex), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Rory Burns (Surrey), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Sam Curran (Surrey), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire).

ODI / T20
Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jofra Archer (Sussex), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Joe Denly (Kent), Eoin Morgan (Middlesex), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri 20 Sep 2019, 11:29 am

Denly getting a white ball only contract is real weird to me. Do they see him as a ODI/T20 player only going forward?

Looks like Moeen has gone firmly behind Leach (who with Tom Curran, have been awarded incremental contracts).

Does seem to indicate the end of Plunkett/Willey's white ball hopes for the moment

by Soul Requiem Fri 20 Sep 2019, 11:35 am

Not a fan of Bairstow and Buttler retaining their test contracts, the former seems to lack focus and assumes he'll always be picked.

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