Wales RWC 2019 thread Number II

[maestegmafia]

First topic message reminder :

WALES’ 2019 RWC SQUAD:

Forwards: Jake Ball, Adam Beard, Rhys Carre, James Davies, Elliot Dee, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Cory Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Dillon Lewis, Ross Moriarty, Josh Navidi, Ken Owens, Aaron Shingler, Nicky Smith, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Wainwright.

Backs: Josh Adams, Hallam Amos, Dan Biggar, Aled Davies, Gareth Davies, Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, George North, Hadleigh Parkes, Rhys Patchell, Owen Watkin, Liam Williams, Tomos Williams.

Pool D

AUSTRALIA, WALES, GEORGIA, FIJI, URUGUAY

Match 1

Australia vs Fiji... Sapporo Dome... Saturday, September 21... 5.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 2

Wales vs Georgia... City of Toyota Stadium... Monday, September 23... 11.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 3

Fiji vs Uruguay... Kamaishi Recovery Memorial Stadium... Wednesday, September 25... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 4

Georgia vs Uruguay... Kumagaya Rugby Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 5

Australia vs Wales... Tokyo Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 8.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 6

Georgia vs Fiji... Hanazono Rugby Stadium... Thursday, October 3... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 7

Australia vs Uruguay... Oita Stadium... Saturday, October 5... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 8

Wales vs Fiji... Oita Stadium... Wednesday, October 9... 10.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 9

Australia vs Georgia... Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa... Friday, October 11... 11.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 10

Wales vs Uruguay... Kumamoto Stadium... Sunday, October 13... 9.15am BST... (ITV)

[Guest]

Think yesterday blew the fitness idea out of the water. Wales can loosen up against any NH team and run them off the field, but the best SH sides will always be better at that kind of lactic-running-rugby than Wales. Basically, that means NZ and Oz, although SA would probably be there as well.

Not sure what the solution to the scrum is. I think Ryan Elias has a long, long career in a Wales shirt, and could add a bit of bulk from hooker, but not sure there are better props in the side. Rhys Carre over Smith? Clearly not yet. Serious lack of THs in Wales unfortunately. Which is a shame, as being fairly short and stocky, you'd think we'd be able to breed at least a few tough fattys who can hold up a scrum in the modern game.

[Guest]

Think yesterday blew the fitness idea out of the water. Wales can loosen up against any NH team and run them off the field, but the best SH sides will always be better at that kind of lactic-running-rugby than Wales. Basically, that means NZ and Oz, although SA would probably be there as well.

Not sure what the solution to the scrum is. I think Ryan Elias has a long, long career in a Wales shirt, and could add a bit of bulk from hooker, but not sure there are better props in the side. Rhys Carre over Smith? Clearly not yet. Serious lack of THs in Wales unfortunately. Which is a shame, as being fairly short and stocky, you'd think we'd be able to breed at least a few tough fattys who can hold up a scrum in the modern game.

True!


I think this is just another example of the 'wave' of players we have in certain positions in certain years. We never seem to be able to get a good number of options in ALL positions at the same time. Maybe few teams do? But we seem to have waves of being well stocked in certain positions while having a dearth of options in others. Sometimes its at 9. Sometimes at 10. At one time we struggled for more than 3 decent backrowers then all of a sudden in the 2018 6 nations we had about 8 good backrowers and we couldn't decide who to choose! If we count Webb (which I probably shouldn't) then we're OK at 9, fine at 10 when Anscombe is back but we're struggling at centre. Front row is another area where we're not stocked but no doubt in a few years we'll be spoilt for choice and will struggle for 9s!

[Guest]

Tbf, I remember the likes of Dillon Lewis for the U20s, and they always look good at that level. But rarely make the step up. Rhys Carre going to Sarries will harden him right up and you'd think he's going to make the grade now as a proper test prop.

That's true though, a small playing pool of players, so we get very 'streaky' with depth.

At the moment, I'd say we have some of the best 9s in the world. England would have killed for Tipuric and/or Warburton for years, and now they've eventually found proper flankers. Now, I think they'd kill for Tomos Williams, and with Kieran Hardy behind him - not to mention Gar who's great at what he does, and Rhys Webb, test Lion - and we're well stocked at 9.

[mikey_dragon]

I don't think our props are small, some of them are on the average spectrum for weight whilst some other individuals are well above it (Carre, Francis). Dee is a traditional style hooker (like Best and Cronin) and he's pretty good, I've never seen him be outmuscled in the contact area. If you're comparing them with props Leinster produce I guess they might come across as small, but Leinster seem to be in a league of their own for international-prop production. It might be worth pointing out that some of the promising props that come through for us go elsewhere. There was Joe Jones who's now at Sale, plus Wainwright and Carre at Saracens. They were big strong boys, and dominant in the scrum whenever I seen them play. Besides Carre we don't know what they're up to now. I certainly think some regions would benefit from bringing back other Welsh props like Will-Griff John, in an attempt to add depth.

[Guest]

In all honesty, I think Welsh props benefit from being in England. Much higher standard of forward play. Dee's solid enough and explosive, but doesn't have that solid strength that means you can grind someone in a scrum from a static position. That's the kind of strength we lack compared to England and Ireland. Beef. Moriarty has it, despite being lean. Lean beef, if you want. AWJ has it. And I think Elias has it. Carre might. But the Australians showed us up up front yesterday. Couldn't throw straight to save their lives, but their beanpole second rows, and tidy little PI-heritage front rowers, were more than a match for us.

[Guest]

I'm not really basing it on size, although you do hear people and commentators comment on them being mobile which I suppose is a polite way of saying small in relative terms for their position! But I'm basing it more on my perception of their ability to scrummage at the top level. Maybe I'm being a bit unfair as they often get put together as a unit. I'm sure Dee would be fine as hooker between Francis and Wyn Jones. And maybe Smith would be OK in a unit with Ken and Francis. But when we start our best (which seems to be Jones, Ken and Francis currently) then inevitably those other 3 get time together as a unit later in the game. Maybe its size, or technique, but all 3 together does not seem to be the best and they go backwards and/or give away penalties. We maybe need an out and out scrummager in there with two of them to help balance things a bit otherwise its all mobility at the expense of our scrum platform.

[Guest]

Yep, fair point.

I do think size is pretty key when it comes to scrummaging, weight, shape, strength etc. all relates to size, but there's something missing in the way we close out games.

That said, I think Australia's new front rowers are infinitely better than what they've been in recent years. No shame in getting a bit of a pasting towards the end there, and it really looked like both teams - Australia in particular - were doing their best to move around and affect the hit/drive before the ball went in.

Wonder how many changes we'll see for Fiji.

The obvious thing to do would be to go with the same again, but I think we might possibly see Carre brought in, and Aled (eesh) Davies as well. Him on the bench, with a start against Uruguay. Is it harsh hoping for an injury and a call up for Hardy?

[Pie]

Id pick Carre, Dee, Francis , Bradley and Ball v Fiji. With Davies taking over for Tipuric, Moriarty and Wainwright. Good lumpy pack. Tomos, Patchell, Watkin, Davies, Hallam, Half and Adams. Back this up with bench of Owens, Wyn Jones, Lewis, Alun Wyn, Shingler, Gareth Davies, Bigs, North

[mikey_dragon]

I'm not sure. I'd maybe rest AWJ, or put him on the bench at least - either way he misses out against Uruguay. I'd rest Biggar, with perhaps Parkes or Halfpenny as 10 cover. The next games are ideal to put Shingler to 6, and introduce Beard or Bradley Davies. I wouldn't make many more changes but I'd certainly change the bench up a little, have Carre there instead of Smith, and perhaps others.

I wouldn't use Aled at all unless other become unavailable. Should Aled somehow get cropped then that must be the extenuating circumstances for Webb to come in.

[Guest]

Bradley Davies looked shocking againt Ireland. Lost the physical battle tme after time. Hopefully he's stayed in top condition knowing Hill was seriously injured and there was a good chance of him being called up, but I think Fiji is exactly the game he shouldn't be playing. He's tall, slow, and deceptively a bit soft, and that makes him a target for Fijians to absolutely level. If the biggest man on your team is getting hammered around, it's not a good mental boost for your team.

Case in point:

I wouldn't mess around for Fiji tbh. First team again with maybe one or two changes, that's it. Cannot take Fiji lightly, they will perform just under the level they showed against Australia, so Wales have to man up for the first 60-70 minutes and finish it off later in the game. You want your first team doing that. Then it's a case of fully resting the team for Uruguay in prep for what's likely to be France. The fixtures have been kind to Wales, have to say.

I wouldn't have Amos anywhere near the Fijians. Too small, too slow. Would be a field day.

[RiscaGame]

There’ll be no changes for the Fijians, unless there are injuries. Gatland isn’t going to risk undoing Sunday’s result by tinkering, especially when a better game to do it is four days later.

[majesticimperialman]

There’ll be no changes for the Fijians, unless there are injuries. Gatland isn’t going to risk undoing Sunday’s result by tinkering, especially when a better game to do it is four days later.

Will Biggar be fit enough to play? I also understand Liam Williams picked up a knock on his ankle.

[mikey_dragon]

I don't think there should be wholesale changes, but it is likely Patchell will start and Biggar misses out entirely, he'll need 2 weeks at least. With that Wales may have Halfpenny at full-back with Williams or Parkes (still has a hand injury) covering 10. Bradley Davies is certainly a hot and cold player. One week he's a big bruiser smashing rucks and gaining ground, the next week he's a big softie. If guys like him, Beard and Carre are expected to play in the final pool game then they should be involved in the 23 for Fiji. Hopefully we can finally start with Watkin too. I don't think AWJ will be rested for this game but he should be rested at some point.

Jones, Owens, Francis, Ball, AWJ, Shingler, Davies, Navidi - Davies, Patchell, Adams, Watkin, JD2, North, Halfpenny. Subs: Elias, Carre, Lewis, Beard, Moriarty, T Williams, L Williams, Amos.

[majesticimperialman]

Can the likes of AWJ, Owens, keep on playing every game with out getting a rest at some time.

Surely  you want your best players to be avalible for the toughest games, and not on the side line knackered.

[maestegmafia]

Can the likes of AWJ, Owens, keep on playing every game with out getting a rest at some time.

Surely  you want your best players to be avalible for the toughest games, and not on the side line knackered.

Wales have nine days until they play Fiji

[Guest]

Wales' likely QF fixture is Oct 20th. The Oz game was 29th Sep. Can't afford to rest anyone for Fiji, and there's no need, anyway. Not AWJ, not Biggar. Keep them playing, keep them winning. The players will want to play as well. Too much is spoken about rotation as if it's an exact science. The players can play a test match every 10 days. That's ideal in fact. The fixtures are falling nicely for Wales. Tentatively, we should have enough in the tank to beat France - and England, if that's who we play - and then it's 2 more games.

[Pie]

I'd start with Patchell and rest Owens then. AWJ can bench it ffs. A bit of common sense we cant lose these guys. JD2 and North the same

[maestegmafia]

Wales' likely QF fixture is Oct 20th. The Oz game was 29th Sep. Can't afford to rest anyone for Fiji, and there's no need, anyway. Not AWJ, not Biggar. Keep them playing, keep them winning. The players will want to play as well. Too much is spoken about rotation as if it's an exact science. The players can play a test match every 10 days. That's ideal in fact. The fixtures are falling nicely for Wales. Tentatively, we should have enough in the tank to beat France - and England, if that's who we play - and then it's 2 more games.

I agree there is loads of rest time and wrapping players in cotton wool rarely helps. The lads will be wanting to get on the pitch and play.

[Guest]

I agree. Rest players now for the final two games and, if we're lucky enough to get to a QF, then they will have been off for 3 weeks. They'll be rusty!

[Guest]

There's more benefit to be had in winning well against Fiji with the 1s than there is in scraping past them by resting 5+ first team players and dislocating the flow of the team.

I think, at most - barring injury - we'll see 3 changes. I can see James Davies possibly coming in, I can see Tomos being dropped for Aled - as that's what he did in the autumn, I believe - and I can maybe see Halfpenny back in. Maybe an argument for Bradley on the bench with Shingler pushed out or to #20. But really, I'd change nothing, and I hope Gatland thinks the same.

Wholesale changes for Uruguay, then, and a fast and loose game for the reserves to get a good runout. Likelihood is a few of them will see game time n the latter end of the tournament as we've been lucky wth injuries so far, but they will happen.

Issues with #10 at the moment though. Biggar's head knock wasn't great. Can see him possibly being out for the Fiji game, maybe Uruguay too.

[chris_501]

If I was selecting the team I would go for

Fiji
1. W Jones
2. Owens
3. Francis
4. AWJ
5. Ball
6. Moriarty
7. Tips
8. Navidi
9. G Davies
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Parkes
13. J Davies
14. Adams
15. Halfpenny
16. Dee
17. Carre
18. Lewis
19. B Davies
20. Shingler
21. T Williams
22. Patchell
23. Watkin


For Uruguay

1. Smith
2. Dee
3. Lewis
4. B Davies
5. Beard
6. Shingler
7. J Davies
8. Moriarty
9. T Williams
10. Patchell
11. Amos
12. Watkin
13. North
14. Amos
15. Halfpenny
16. Elias
17. Carre
18. W Jones
19. Ball
20. Wainwright
21. A Davies
22. Parkes
23. L Williams

Really a case of resting Owens, Francis, AWJ, Tips, Navidi, G Davies, Biggar and J Davies for Uruguay.

[mikey_dragon]

It's become noticeable how very well-drilled the forward pack is, that is Gatland's doing for sure. Our scrum has become an 'under-strength' but how our guys work together is a strength of ours. Our aerial game and defence also being the others. That's usually enough to win KO rugby, although it seems strong packs like Eng and Fra would be good at negating our strength there.

[maestegmafia]

I agree, there is a very handsome looking sense of team work and goal.

[Guest]

Same old France. Glad they got the win. Hope we're facing them in the QFs. Pretty comfortable comeback against them in the 6Ns, despite the scoreline at half time. Looks like all Wales will have to do is keep them pegged back in their own half. Would like to see some more tactical kicking to touch rather than keeping it in play. Make them box kick from their 22 because they ffffffaaaaaaaakin hate it, and can't do it.

Scrum wobbled against the USA, so not sure what to make of that. Wales will hopefully deal well enough with the starting scrum for the first 60 minutes that France's penchant for knocking the ball on isn't coounteracted by Wales' inability to scrummage.

3 banana skins now. Or maybe 1 banana skin in Fiji, and a winnable game againt a strong but sloppy France. Have to back Wales to make a SF now, at least. And support Ireland to top their group.

[maestegmafia]

Scrum wobbled against the USA, so not sure what to make of that.

i have a feeling that much of the scrum wobbling issues we are seeing are to do with the relationship between the players and the refs on the pitch.

This is the first RWC where all the teams competing are well trained, well coached and have had a decent amount of time together as a squad to improve prior to the tournament. I think that has had a massive effect on the quality of all the sides.

[maestegmafia]

Very hard being the team that’s not playing for the week.

Don’t wish the four day turn around on any team but ten days is insufferable.

The players must be going nuts....

[majesticimperialman]

Very hard being the team that’s not playing for the week.

Don’t wish the four day turn around on any team but ten days is insufferable.

The players must be going nuts....

maes.

you are saying if i read you right,  10 days is to long a rest time for any team.

How long a rest time should it be? in your opinion i mean.

[mikey_dragon]

1 day of rest.

[RiscaGame]

Very hard being the team that’s not playing for the week.

Don’t wish the four day turn around on any team but ten days is insufferable.

The players must be going nuts....

To be fair, they did well against Georgia for a long break. Albeit they switched off when the job was done. I expect them to start well and if they do, they won’t switch off so soon because the win will be harder to get. Plus I doubt Gatland will make changes as soon either.

[maestegmafia]

Very hard being the team that’s not playing for the week.

Don’t wish the four day turn around on any team but ten days is insufferable.

The players must be going nuts....

To be fair, they did well against Georgia for a long break. Albeit they switched off when the job was done. I expect them to start well and if they do, they won’t switch off so soon because the win will be harder to get. Plus I doubt Gatland will make changes as soon either.

I’m sure the est will do them good especially the time to build towards the next games

[mikey_dragon]

I watched the scarlets last night, Lee was really struggling. Rob Evans should probably be in this Wales squad though. I didn’t watch the Ospreys game. I wonder what’s going on there? Against Ulster they didn’t look like they were well drilled enough, and half the players didn’t seem interested (Lydiate especially). Who’s making the decisions regarding recruitment of coaches and players?

[maestegmafia]

I watched the scarlets last night, Lee was really struggling. Rob Evans should probably be in this Wales squad though. I didn’t watch the Ospreys game. I wonder what’s going on there? Against Ulster they didn’t look like they were well drilled enough, and half the players didn’t seem interested (Lydiate especially). Who’s making the decisions regarding recruitment of coaches and players?

God only knows what’s going on there.

[majesticimperialman]

When do Wales next play?

[maestegmafia]

When do Wales next play?

Wednesday vs Fiji

[majesticimperialman]

cheers maes.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Wales: L Williams; North, Jonathan Davies, Parkes, Adams; Biggar, G Davies; Wyn Jones, Owens, Francis, Ball, Alun Wyn Jones (C), Navidi, James Davies, Moriarty.

Replacements: Carre, Dee, Lewis, Shingler, Wainwright, T Williams, Patchell, Watkin.

Fiji: Murimurivalu; Tuisova, Nayacalevu, Botia, Radradra; Volavola, Lomani; Ma'afu, S Matavesi, Saulo, Cavubati, Nakarawa, Waqaniburotu (C), Kunatani, Mata

Replacements: Dolokoto, Mawi, Ravai, Ratuniyarawa, Yato, Matawalu, Vatubua, J Matavesi

[LordDowlais]

Is anybody else bricking it for Wednesday ? Or is it just me ?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'm still worried about this match, but less so now that the team's been announced. We're giving Fiji the respect they deserve.

[RiscaGame]

I am a bag of nerves already and am not sure how I am meant to work before the game. The Georgia game was bad enough and that was always going to be less stressful.

[Guest]

Quietly confident about this one, but AWJ is probably the key mental/emotional heartbeat in making it comfortable v nailbiting. Without Tipuric, not really sure we have too many players in the pack who can match the Fijians and keep going for 80 minutes. Ken's all heart and ballast but he'll have a tough day against the mobility of the Fijians. Moriarty loves a big hit but could get drawn in to losing focus.

Probably only really Gareth Davies and Josh Adams who have that mental grit about them that I like to see when facing teams like Fiji, the neutrals' favourite.

Tipuric's been Wales' best player so far for me, so it's an odd one. Always get the sense he's not too far from being fobbed off by Gatland. Hard to say with this. Hopefully the decision to rotate him doesn't come back to hurt us in any way, in any of the next 3 games we're going to play.

In terms of nerves, there genuinely hasn't been a game - warm ups aside - I've felt Wales were destined to lose this year. Probably the Australia game last autumn came closest, where they really rode their luck having failed to jut put the game to bed. SA and England obviously come close as well, but even games like France in Paris...always confident with how they look on the field. Take the clock and scoreboard away, and I really like the way Wales play. Just feel the nerves are perhaps misplaced. Was confident we'd put pressure back on Australia when we had the ball, and that's what happened with the final drop goal.

Let's wait and see in this game. It'll be pretty clear on 20 minutes and 60 minutes how we're doing.

[Pie]

I wonder with Tips, I've always felt he hasn't been Gats favorite. He is brilliant but in a Richard Hill way, h rarely shows his regional class at national level. He may have a tight quad as stated but he was declared 100% fit, you do wonder what he has to do to make 7 his shirt.

Davies better stump up hard at the breakdown. This game will be won by doing the basics accurately and pinning the Fijians back so a smart kicking game is required....we dont want to be facing counter attacking Fijians no thanks.

[No9]

We need to beat Fiji with a BP, as there is a good chance we wont get to play our last game. Fingers crossed we'll have our QF place after Wed, but we may not go through as top spot, if this Cyclone hits.. 

[maestegmafia]

“We had a few days off to recover, recuperate and travel after Australia,”

“We had a day of training with tailor made sessions and now we’re into the latter stages of our Test week. With regards to where we are we’re very aware we’ve only done half a job.

“We’re halfway through the pool stages with two games down and two to go. We’ve had two great starts, but potentially taken our foot off the gas in the latter parts of those two games.

“We want an 80-minute performance in defence. Shaun Edwards has urged that from us, but Stephen Jones has also told us still to keep on playing in attack.

“The nice thing is we still have improvement to make in key areas to take us to the end of the pool stages.”

“We’ve had two incomplete performances. I don’t think there is such a thing as a perfect game, but we just need to keep working hard and use the time wisely,” Jones added.

“Time is increasingly finite at this stage of the campaign, but hopefully we can put the product out on the park.”.

“If you look at the leagues the Fiji players play in across the world, their players usually focus around the most exciting aspects in those leagues,”

“We know their offload ability and how dangerous they can be and if you couple that with some interesting set-piece plays, we will have to be on our guard.

“Whether you’re playing in an autumn campaign or a World Cup, Fiji are always dangerous and we’re well aware of the individual threats they have.”

[Guest]

Good to see such honesty, particularly with regard to the specifics. The attacking persistence is literally the one part of Wales' game that would take them up a level and really give them a serious chance of winning this trophy.

[maestegmafia]

Good to see such honesty, particularly with regard to the specifics. The attacking persistence is literally the one part of Wales' game that would take them up a level and really give them a serious chance of winning this trophy.

He’s a hell of a man. World class in so many ways.

[Pie]

So why do we need x3 9s, x 3 hookers and x6 back 3 players North, Adams, Liam, Amos, Patchell, Half and having lost our first pick 10 we seem only to need x 2 10s.....someone hasn't thought this through.

Clearly Biggar may not make the France game which is fine as I am happy with Patchell's performances, but who will take up the bench? Amos has been twiddling his thumbs for a month and one wonders why not bring 5 back 3 players when they are so interchangeable and an extra 10 in Evans.

If Bigs makes it they don't call him up then what for Uruguay? Liam to cover 10 from bench or more likely Parkes meaning that North has to play 13. And North v Fiji yet again showed he may be a big boy but he's a puppy in the aggression stakes.

Lastly what idiot gave an RWC to a country IN TYPHOON SEASON

That is all

[Guest]

Good point, Pie. Think the plan was always to have Patchell as the third #10 and with Anscombe getting injured, Wales didn't have anyone else. Liam Williams and Halfpenny can't fill in at 10, nor can Parkes or Watkin.

It's a poor situation, really, compared to every other team. But it's also dictated to by the players we have. Jarod Evans showed he's not mentally/emotionally ready for test rugby, and Patchell is still a way in front. Dan Evans had a tough season last year and is probably in the same boat as Evans. Sam Davies wasn't in the position to be called up, but maybe, at this stage, if Biggar is out, he's the one we'd turn to? Or Priestland?

I would have been tempted to take Jonah Holmes as the 3rd #9, dropping Aled, who's not really cut it at test level, while covering the 3/4s. It also frees up another spot in the backs. Could really do with a utility 10-12-13 but we just don't have one. But then that's a risk as an injury to one of the 9s and you end up with Holmes as your bench 9. Gatland seemingly values 9 more than 10, and the way Wales play, it's true that much more is dictated by the 9 than the 10, so makes sense to take 2 10s and 3 9s than vice versa.

Can only think Hadleigh Parkes will be #10 cover at the weekend having played there for the Scarlets last season, and being just about the only versatile back we have. It's all a bit amateurish really as Parkes looked shocking at club level, let alone test level. Uruguay are no mugs and if we have a glaring weakness in one area, they'll exploit it and made it a tough day.

By and large it's gone well though. Injuries have killed us and we're desperately unlucky pre tournament, have to hope Biggar pulls through for the QFs, although I'd back Patchell against the French. No place to hide, time to show his mettle sort of thing.

[Guest]

I also don't think we can rule out the possibility of playing England in the QF. By design.

[Pie]

Agree on all fronts. But having decided we need 3 10s when did we abandon that. Honestly at this point id be calling Priest I think. Bigs is tough but so are those protocols.

[Pie]

And it sounds like JD2 is also toast and frankly his bro can do one, he is not up to this level.

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