Wales RWC 2019 thread Number II

[maestegmafia]

First topic message reminder :

WALES’ 2019 RWC SQUAD:

Forwards: Jake Ball, Adam Beard, Rhys Carre, James Davies, Elliot Dee, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Cory Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Dillon Lewis, Ross Moriarty, Josh Navidi, Ken Owens, Aaron Shingler, Nicky Smith, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Wainwright.

Backs: Josh Adams, Hallam Amos, Dan Biggar, Aled Davies, Gareth Davies, Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, George North, Hadleigh Parkes, Rhys Patchell, Owen Watkin, Liam Williams, Tomos Williams.

Pool D

AUSTRALIA, WALES, GEORGIA, FIJI, URUGUAY

Match 1

Australia vs Fiji... Sapporo Dome... Saturday, September 21... 5.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 2

Wales vs Georgia... City of Toyota Stadium... Monday, September 23... 11.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 3

Fiji vs Uruguay... Kamaishi Recovery Memorial Stadium... Wednesday, September 25... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 4

Georgia vs Uruguay... Kumagaya Rugby Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 5

Australia vs Wales... Tokyo Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 8.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 6

Georgia vs Fiji... Hanazono Rugby Stadium... Thursday, October 3... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 7

Australia vs Uruguay... Oita Stadium... Saturday, October 5... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 8

Wales vs Fiji... Oita Stadium... Wednesday, October 9... 10.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 9

Australia vs Georgia... Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa... Friday, October 11... 11.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 10

Wales vs Uruguay... Kumamoto Stadium... Sunday, October 13... 9.15am BST... (ITV)

[Pie]

I also don't think we can rule out the possibility of playing England in the QF. By design.

How so....we both top groups

[Guest]

England are likely to rotate heavily, France apparently picking their strongest team.

[Guest]

And it sounds like JD2 is also toast and frankly his bro can do one, he is not up to this level.

Where have you read that?

[Pie]

England are likely to rotate heavily, France apparently picking their strongest team.

What you mean is England trying to throw a game lol. Sad as %^&*

[mikey_dragon]

Been saying that for years about 'cubby'. Inconsistent performances from Parkes and Moriarty this season and last, not sure why their places in the team are so assured. Adams and North weren't great today, but Adams did enough to redeem himself. Carre was on for a short space of time but definitely looked more solid than Smith has done before and during this world cup.

[RiscaGame]

Gatland seemed pretty positive on JD2’s fitness, so fingers crossed.

[Afro]

JD2 is more of a worry than the other two. He is the one that I don’t think there is a clear replacement for, and his defensive game epitomises the strengths in Wales game. With Biggar and Adams, in comes Patchell and Halfpenny, and the drop in quality is not as great

[majesticimperialman]

Apart from Dan Biggar, how many other injuries did Wales pick up today, and how many are long term? and will those who got injured be surely missed in the next game?

[Afro]

Adams, Biggar and JD2 all went off with injuries.

Not sure how bad they are yet. Only seen about Biggar having to miss the next game due to it being his second HIA in successive games

[Guest]

JD2 is more of a worry than the other two. He is the one that I don’t think there is a clear replacement for, and his defensive game epitomises the strengths in Wales game. With Biggar and Adams, in comes Patchell and Halfpenny, and the drop in quality is not as great

Definitely. Irreplacables in this team are JD2 and AWJ. Closely followed by Ken, North, Biggar, and Tipuric. Faletau would be there as well - we've seen average control at the base of the scrum so far, better by Moriarty today but don't really want Navidi at 8 for the busines end of the tournament. It's a very specific, but very expensive, skill to get wrong, and not an easy one to expect him to master so quickly. Biggar still hard to replace as Patchell is still a drop in terms of test match mentality.

[Guest]

And it sounds like JD2 is also toast and frankly his bro can do one, he is not up to this level.

Where have you read that?

""Josh just got a dead leg and Jonathan with his knee, something similar. But you never know with knees," he said."

Sounds like we'll have to wait and see. Did the Davies's bar you or something, Pie?

[Guest]

In all honesty, as solid as Parkes can be, I'd have Scott Williams in that starting 12 shirt. Seems a massive shame he's not even with the squad. To a man, Wales were physically inferior to the Fijians. There aren't many test 12s Scott isn't at least physically on par with - he's lost a yard of pace, but still rapid, still strong, still a good reader of the game. Exactly the kind of centre you want in the latter end of a tournament. Just solid all round.

[Afro]

I’d have Scott Williams. Just assumed he is still having injury problems?

[Guest]

Probably hasn't helped, but Gatland's never rated him. He won't do the straight line running that Roberts and now Parkes bring, and so he's never liked him. Other issues as well, but a bit like Tipuric, Scott's face has just never fit with Gatland, despite being one of the best out and out rugby players in Wales. Should really have been a Lion considering his ability.

[Guest]

I too would have taken Scott Williams. Still think he has something to offer. And I don’t feel that any of our current 10s (and we only took two ) are able to play the role of a ‘2nd 5/8th’ so I personally would have taken more centre cover. If we lose one, which we might have with JD2, the we’re down to just Parkes and Watkin for the remainder of the tournament. We then have have North or one of our 10s covering any mishaps. Too risky for me.

Silly question, and I’m guessing the answer is yes, but is/was there a limit to WC squad numbers? How could we have managed this better? Did we overstock in other positions or have we a dearth of multi-position utility type players? Just don’t get the feeling that other 6N teams are as stretched as we are with just one injury in a position.

[BamBam]

You've taken 18 forwards and 13 backs if the squad in the OP is right, with 3 of the backs being scrum halves

England took 17/14 split, with 2 9s. Think England have a bit more versatility with the likes of Slade, Daly and Nowell able to play centres / back 3 to varying degrees

You maybe have gone heavy on back row / locks but it's probably the two most physically attritional areas of a squad so you can see the logic

[majesticimperialman]

So is it 31 players total? i thought is was 33. can some confirm which it is?

[Guest]

Looks like 31 then Maj.

[majesticimperialman]

OK, thank's for that.

[Guest]

You've taken 18 forwards and 13 backs if the squad in the OP is right, with 3 of the backs being scrum halves

England took 17/14 split, with 2 9s. Think England have a bit more versatility with the likes of Slade, Daly and Nowell able to play centres / back 3 to varying degrees

You maybe have gone heavy on back row / locks but it's probably the two most physically attritional areas of a squad so you can see the logic

Yeah, I think England are a good example of a team with players who can play back 3 AND centre. Whereas Wales has versality in the back 3 but that’s it. Our wings and fullbacks are interchangeable and we have players who have a decent amount of experience playing both (Amos, Liam W and Halfpenny). But none are centres. North has been tried there before but his defence is not great infield. Too flappy with the arms!

Hmmmm. Could Amos cut it at 13 if needed? He’s bulked up a bit but obviously that position is not all about bulk. I think he’s had a brief stint or two at 13 for the Dragons under Jackman but not sure it was that successful. He’d have the pace for a good backup 13 I reckon.

I’ve always liked a footballing 12 but they’re pretty rare. Henson, Matt Giteau, Luke McAllister, Jonny Wilkinson, Farrell. There’s not been a huge amount in recent years. I really think that’s one thing Wales could do with as an alternative to Parkes who, in fairness, was a bit of a breath of fresh air from Roberts. But not sure there’s anyone in that mould currently or on the way up.

[Guest]

Gatland post match alluded to Parkes and someone else filling in at 10, and saying they've been training with Hal Amos at 10 and they've been happy with him there. Stuart Hogg situation by the looks of things.

If Halfpenny goes down injured we're in serious, serious trouble in terms of game management and control from 10/goal-kicking.

Can Rhys Priestland be our Stephen Donald?

[Guest]

To confirm as well, the QFs are 10 days away. I really can't see Biggar passing the return to play protocol based on the collision he had.

[BamBam]

Do you think it was an error to take 3 scrum halves? It's a specialist position, but taking only 3 centres (I think?) and 2 10s leaves you quite light in midfield, as may now seem to be the case, all with the benefit of hindsight obviously 

You can only bring Priestland in if someone else's tournament is over, I reckon Biggar will be given as much time as possible. You can beat France without him

[Blueschief]

I seem to recall Sanjay playing flyhalf once or twice, I know he can kick at goal.

At a push Tipuric at centre would be no bad thing in an emergency.

[Guest]

Good point, forgot about that. He's not a great kicker but push comes to shove he can have a go.

Ideally we don't want to be doubling up first XV players though, that's the issue. You want versatility in your replacements. Wales don't really have that. It's not an issue for Uruguay, it's the knockouts that are the worry shoud we suffer further injury.

I'd say it was a mistake to take only 2 players who can play 10. No issue with the 9s per se as who knows how useful they've been in training etc., which often gets overlooked - you spend more time training than you do playing, after al.

But then who could you pick? Patchell would likely have gone ahead of Amos had Anscombe stayed fit, and you solve the issue that way. If you don't have the players, you don't have the players.

[mikey_dragon]

Do you think it was an error to take 3 scrum halves? It's a specialist position, but taking only 3 centres (I think?) and 2 10s leaves you quite light in midfield, as may now seem to be the case, all with the benefit of hindsight obviously 

You can only bring Priestland in if someone else's tournament is over, I reckon Biggar will be given as much time as possible. You can beat France without him

Yes, especially when the 3rd scrum half is Aled Davies. That’s a Josh Adams opening 20 minute howler x 10 as far as I’m concerned. I think we could have taken one less flanker, but we’ve also been a bit unlucky with back 5 injuries.

I wouldn’t risk anything in the KO stage, but next in line is probably Jarrod Evans.

[mikey_dragon]

I seem to recall Sanjay playing flyhalf once or twice, I know he can kick at goal.

At a push Tipuric at centre would be no bad thing in an emergency.

Against France in a KO do we really wanna be doing this? If Biggar has to miss just that game only, Parkes as 10 cover seems the most logical option - either on the bench or just switching positions when necessary. If he’s on the bench then it finally gives Watkin his actual shot. Hopefully we don’t see a repeat of 2015 where we almost lost the entire backline.

[Taylorman]

So likely Scotland miss out due to a cancellation. Thats tough. If England France is off England get to avoid having to win 5 on the trot vs tier one sides.

Theyd have probably beaten Japan with the ambush factor absent. Ireland get to play the ABs after all. South Africa get to avenge 2015 pool win. Cant see Japan winning that.

Weird if all that happens.

[Blueschief]

I was thinking of Uruguay re Sanjay, but defo not France I agree. Cupboard is bare as far as reserves go. Getting a bit worrying for sure.

[mikey_dragon]

Whoever is supposedly covering 10 for the KO stage should probably get a run against Uruguay.

[Guest]

Eng-Fra game off. Means it's Wales v France in the QF. Let's hope they go stir crazy in the interim rather than resting up and throwing all their frustration at us in one go.

[Pie]

I bet Jamie Roberts has texted Gats already

I brought my boots boss

[Gooseberry]

Do you think it was an error to take 3 scrum halves? It's a specialist position, but taking only 3 centres (I think?) and 2 10s leaves you quite light in midfield, as may now seem to be the case, all with the benefit of hindsight obviously 

You can only bring Priestland in if someone else's tournament is over, I reckon Biggar will be given as much time as possible. You can beat France without him

Yes, especially when the 3rd scrum half is Aled Davies. That’s a Josh Adams opening 20 minute howler x 10 as far as I’m concerned. I think we could have taken one less flanker, but we’ve also been a bit unlucky with back 5 injuries.

I wouldn’t risk anything in the KO stage, but next in line is probably Jarrod Evans.

More a hindsight "error" than an actual one. You don't take players who aren't good enough to be selected for any reason other than " what happens if we get two injuries right before a game and don't have time to fly them out" is rule one. Its more a case of misfortune than anything else. Englands came with two scrum halves, one with almost zero test experience and the other is having a meltdown. And Two fly halves, both of whome play in the first XV when they can convince the medical staff to look the other way in concussion protocols. There were a few questions about their lack of cover at the time but right now noone is questioning their squad as a "mistake" because they've been luckier with injuries and get a freww week off instead of their toughest group game. 

If Wales are serious about winning the world cup then they need to be thinking past the quarter final on a margin call IMO. France just aren't very good and should be beatable even with a makeshift backline. If Presitland wasnt good enough to make the squad at all even with others missing then do you want him over Biggar for the semi and final? If Biggar is goign to be fit for the later rounds then he stays to my mind. Wales have to trust themselves and the squad they picked to beat a second rate side like France, if they dont then I cant see how they back themselves to beat better sides in the following rounds.

[RiscaGame]

I bet Jamie Roberts has texted Gats already

I brought my boots boss

He’s not in Japan now.

[RiscaGame]

I think Wales wouldn’t have taken an extra flanker, if Cory Hill had been fit. That way, they would’ve had emergency cover at six and could’ve taken an extra back from that (probably could’ve taken Jarrod Evans or Scott Williams).

[Guest]

Do you think it was an error to take 3 scrum halves? It's a specialist position, but taking only 3 centres (I think?) and 2 10s leaves you quite light in midfield, as may now seem to be the case, all with the benefit of hindsight obviously 

You can only bring Priestland in if someone else's tournament is over, I reckon Biggar will be given as much time as possible. You can beat France without him

Yes, especially when the 3rd scrum half is Aled Davies. That’s a Josh Adams opening 20 minute howler x 10 as far as I’m concerned. I think we could have taken one less flanker, but we’ve also been a bit unlucky with back 5 injuries.

I wouldn’t risk anything in the KO stage, but next in line is probably Jarrod Evans.

More a hindsight "error" than an actual one. You don't take players who aren't good enough to be selected for any reason other than " what happens if we get two injuries right before a game and don't have time to fly them out" is rule one. Its more a case of misfortune than anything else. Englands came with two scrum halves, one with almost zero test experience and the other is having a meltdown. And Two fly halves, both of whome play in the first XV when they can convince the medical staff to look the other way in concussion protocols. There were a few questions about their lack of cover at the time but right now noone is questioning their squad as a "mistake" because they've been luckier with injuries and get a freww week off instead of their toughest group game. 

If Wales are serious about winning the world cup then they need to be thinking past the quarter final on a margin call IMO. France just aren't very good and should be beatable even with a makeshift backline. If Presitland wasnt good enough to make the squad at all even with others missing then do you want him over Biggar for the semi and final? If Biggar is goign to be fit for the later rounds then he stays to my mind. Wales have to trust themselves and the squad they picked to beat a second rate side like France, if they dont then I cant see how they back themselves to beat better sides in the following rounds.

Yeah, was going to post something similar. It's just sod's law. If we'd gone with 2 scrum halves and 3 10s I expect Gareth Davies would have got a knock and we'd be looking for someone to cover 9 instead. Just one of those things you can try to cover for but it's in the hands of the gods who will pick up injuries. In hindsight 3 scrum halves was not needed. But who knows.

[BamBam]

Just looking at the other squads, it does seem the choice to take the extra lock / back row was the decision rather than the extra scrum half

Most of the other Tier 1 teams seem to have gone with a 17 / 14 split, with some going with 2 fly halves and some with 2 scrum halves

[Guest]

Yeah, I think it was the Cory Hill injury and doubts about regaining fitness that led us down this path. Ah well, it is what it is. Could be worse. At least we're not being sent home early without being able to complete the pool. Nightmare.

[mikey_dragon]

Priestland isn't in contention right now, hasn't been for years. Not sure who brought that up, obviously a Scarlets fan .

Hopefully our game against Uruguay goes ahead. There are a few players that need a run, plus the 10 days off clearly didn't work for us.

[Guest]

Priestland was a squad member in the 2018 6Ns but injury kept him from playing. 'Years'. That deserves a report, unfortunately. Stupid personal point to make.

Priestland's still the only other proven test 10 we have. We saw Jarrod Evans have an emotional meltdown in the pressure of a warm up game where he knew his selection was hinging on his performance. Sam Davies has never really cut it and is now at the Dragons hoping to rebuild his career. Dan Jones is my pick - was always deemed better than Evans in the age grades - and I feel he is well worth a test cap at some point. But, at this stage, as it's a real possibility Biggar might be out of the tournament considering his head knock was devastating, I'd go for Priestland.

[RiscaGame]

I feel like Evans would be better against most teams. Ireland could swarm most tens and he possibly wouldn't face that pressure again. Totally take your point about Priestland, Miaow, but just offering my opinion on Jarrod Evans.

Sam Davies has looked good thus far for Dragons, but wouldn't suit a Gatland team. Might be a shout for Pivac's stewardship though.

[Guest]

Miaow, did you really report Mikey's post for saying Priestland hasn't been in contention for years???

[RiscaGame]

No news on Jonathan Davies yet. Hoping no news is good news.

Team I think will be selected tomorrow.

Halfpenny, North, Watkin, Parkes, Amos, Patchell, A Davies , Carre, Elias, Lewis, Beard, Davies, Shingler, Tipuric, Moriarty.

Dee, Smith, Jones (given a try at tighthead), Ball, Wainwright, Davies, T Williams, L Williams.

If they get a comfortable lead, then move a winger to centre and Parkes to ten. As I've said, give Wyn Jones a try at tighthead as he's cover for that too. Hopefully Tomos Williams starts and Aled Davies is bench, but I suspect it will be the way I have gone.

[Guest]

Miaow, did you really report Mikey's post for saying Priestland hasn't been in contention for years???

Nope, reported it for WUMming and getting spiteful and pathetically personal as he is wont to do when he gets riled up.

[Guest]

Personally thought JD2's injury didn't look great, hence wanting to know where the 'tournament's over' chat came from from Pie. And muscle injury to the knee now - rather than a knock - and it's game over and months of rehab.

He did it when offloading for Adams' 3rd. Hes basically running at pace, takes the tackle, and then twists his body to offload. Presumably his knee was stuck in the ground and it's minor moveent in the knee as he twists his upper body. That's basically a guaranteed tear as far as I can tell in terms of movement, which means tournament over unfortunately. Hope I'm wrong.

[Guest]

Miaow, did you really report Mikey's post for saying Priestland hasn't been in contention for years???

Nope, reported it for WUMming and getting spiteful and pathetically personal as he is wont to do when he gets riled up.

Ah, ok. His message must have been 'MOD'd' before I read it.

[mikey_dragon]

Miaow, did you really report Mikey's post for saying Priestland hasn't been in contention for years???

Nope, reported it for WUMming and getting spiteful and pathetically personal as he is wont to do when he gets riled up.

Ah, ok.  His message must have been 'MOD'd' before I read it.

Oracle; It hasn't been MOD'd, the comment is as it was when I first posted it. That's a ridiculous and inaccurate accusation from miaow there, again. Just yesterday after the Fiji game he was getting extremely upset over people rightfully alluding to Adams' opening 20 mins. He dragged this on to midnight with spiteful and pathetic comments against me, as he so often does when people don't 100% agree with him. Those comments have been removed now, but beggars belief how this type of person comes out with that accusation over another justifiable comment. Priestland hasn't been in contention for years, so I do believe it is a bit silly to expect him to waltz in and save the day, skipping over Jarrod Evans along the way. Plus we know Scarlets' fans to be ridiculously biased in favour of their own players. Oh boy.

[TightHEAD]

Ask any Bath fan about Preistland and I suspect they will not hold back with their comments.

As for Miaow Mikey is bang on.

[mikey_dragon]

I feel like Evans would be better against most teams. Ireland could swarm most tens and he possibly wouldn't face that pressure again. Totally take your point about Priestland, Miaow, but just offering my opinion on Jarrod Evans.

Sam Davies has looked good thus far for Dragons, but wouldn't suit a Gatland team. Might be a shout for Pivac's stewardship though.

When did Priestland last play for Wales? Is he eligible? Obviously that's relevant. Some people just don't rate him, and aren't going to agree with him coming into the squad over Jarrod Evans. I mean a person can write some essays about why they believe RP should be in there right now, but that isn't going to changes the minds of some fans who rate JE over him. That's just how it is. Does that honestly deserve a lot of crying, snide insults, and more essays? Miaow has a history for doing this to people who don't agree with him. He should get over it mun.

[Guest]

Priestland's the only test capped 10 we have available back home. He last played in the autumn of 2017, was called up in 2018 6Ns. Probably played his best stuff for Wales in those last 2 years. He's not perfect, but it's not that contentious to say he's next in line, or that I'd like him to be.

I compared him to Stephen Donald as he literally could be the shaky, unreliable 10 who comes out of the shadows of an underwhelming test career due to multiple outside half injuries, and plays a key role in Welsh success. It was a lighthearted comment initially drawing parallels between the two, atlhough now I think about it, I'd probably give the edge to Priestland over the other 3 10s - Sam Davies, Dan Jones, and Jarrod Evans - based on experience and what an injury replacement would actually be tasked with if they were to be called up this late.

Look at bile you are vomiting up on here. Have a word with yourself. You were rattled because you can't accept your own words being repeated back to you and held up against, you know, reality?

Mikey, just calm down. It's a rugby forum. You win nothing with your outrage. Nothing you could say could possibly hurt, offend, or impact my life in any way, but I feel you take this all a bit too seriously and invest too much emotional wellbeing in this forum. Just relax. It's ok. We're both supporting Wales here. You don't need to concoct some me v them binary every time someone disagrees with you. Just relax. You said something silly, that's fine - this was in the heat of a game after all. You're not fighting for pride here, or losing face by just letting it go. You don't have to turn every little point in to some horrible, snide, bitter exchange because you feel *something* negative when realising, yes, you did say something silly.

Much more important things to discuss. Let's not drag this thread down and have it become a breeding ground for WUMmery from other posters as well.

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