Japan V Scotland (if it's on)

First topic message reminder :

MATCH 40
SUNDAY 13 OCTOBER
KICK OFF (UK TIME)
11:45

SCOTLAND
WORLD RANKING 9TH

Referee: Ben O'Keeffe
International Stadium Yokohama, Kanagawa Prefecture, Yokohama City

(Or not at all)

Is this Schrodinger's game in that it can be considered both on and cancelled at the same time? I'm sure Jimbo will correct me in my interpretation....

Strange feeling.  Scotland v Japan determines who Ireland play.  Most observers feel Ireland's best chance is against SA.  
Hmmm.... ain't necessarily so.  
Ireland already have a gameplan that beats themselves up, regardless of opposition.  We go looking for trouble in the close proximity battles and strife.  SA is certainly one side that would only add to that workload and make 80 minutes of injury free fitness a real dice throw for important Irish players.
It really is much of a muchness as both SA and NZ are tails up and winning bigly!  But at this point - win or lose one shot game? - think I'd prefer a shot at NZ.  
So I'll have to look for my Japan kit body paint in my wardrobe......

I fancy Scotland to win.

With the mention of the stars aligning, doesn't it seem like the stars are aligning for Scotland? Game could've been called off and wasn't. Scotland have a chance to qualify, that they might not have got.

I would prefer SA not to play Ireland in the QF, I am not that confident of Rassie's men yet

You Scots almost ready to get beat?

I think the Scots will win today

Nothing against the posters on here but that toy out of pram throwing was unnecessary, given the bigger picture. Come on Japan.

EnglishReign wrote:Nothing against the posters on here but that toy out of park throwing was unnecessary, given the bigger picture. Come on Japan.

You are referring to the threat of legal action?

Well whatever happens this sure is the freakiest prelude to any World Cup match I’ve ever seen.
Medial frenzy, legal threats, typhoons... just waiting for the Hulk and Iron man to turn up.

This will be fun

Mikey
For me it's win win scenario. We win and deny Japan enough points and we on to face a hammering from the blackness. We lose and Toonie gets the boot (fingers crossed). I think the latter outcome is more likely.
I've just thought there is a nightmare scenario: we win but Japan gets bonus point to quality, Toonie blames typhoon baabag affecting the build up and the SRU happily let's Toonie continue as coach as they don't have the nads to do the right thing.

Taylorman wrote:Well whatever happens this sure is the freakiest prelude to any World Cup match I’ve ever seen.
Medial frenzy, legal threats, typhoons... just waiting for the Hulk and Iron man to turn up.

This will be fun

Yep, with a bit of luck its the last time this world cup has to deal with typhoons and humidity.

RiscaGame wrote:I fancy Scotland to win.

With the mention of the stars aligning, doesn't it seem like the stars are aligning for Scotland? Game could've been called off and wasn't. Scotland have a chance to qualify, that they might not have got.

Yes but 1. Japan are no a fluke team.  They've proven resilient and are in the form that puts them legitimately in with the chance of topping their group.
2.  Crowds are let watch and it's a home game
3.  After a storm that has caused serious damage in their Nation they'll feel even more buoyed to try put some smiles back on the faces of their countrymen.

I won't be shocked by any result here.  Scotland could actually run away with it and finally make Japanlook very ordinary.  They get a rhythm going and it's very possible.  
But Japan also; if they get a sniff of dominance, they too could build a nice score line for themselves.  Like all great natural attacking sides, they work like sharks.  Play around trying to scent blood, and when they do, it becomes a feeding frenzy - but an impressively controlled feeding frenzy.  You still need to be technically smart to pull off the frenzies.  Japan appear to be so far.

Collapse2005 wrote:I think the Scots will win today

So do I. With the amount of drama already wouldn’t be surprised if bonus points determine someone’s fate here. Japan effectively get a seven point start if no one scores four tries.

Yeah thats true they do. Who do you want to win Taylorman?

Surely the kiwis would rather play Scotland - if we thought the Japanese were well up for this game can you imagine a QF against NZ!

I’d resigned to playing Ireland as soon as they lost to Japan so have warmed to that since. I’d say most kiwis would most prefer Japan because their game is more familiar, coach captain and several are PI players etc. they play a NZ style.

Yet the other two have both lost, Japan hasn’t. I’d prefer someone else knock the hosts out after all that’s gone on. NZ might just squash them too much while they’re a bit brittle if you know what I mean.

Either way, not really fussed. We either face a tier two side, or someone has lost in pool play.

Imagine if it ends 0-0 after all the fuss.

123456789. wrote:Imagine if it ends 0-0 after all the fuss.

Haha

Taylorman wrote:I’d resigned to playing Ireland as soon as they lost to Japan so have warmed to that since. I’d say most kiwis would most prefer Japan because their game is more familiar, coach captain and several are PI players etc. they play a NZ style.

Yet the other two have both lost, Japan hasn’t. I’d prefer someone else knock the hosts out after all that’s gone on. NZ might just squash them too much while they’re a bit brittle if you know what I mean.

Either way, not really fussed. We either face a tier two side, or someone has lost in pool play.

So had I, bring on NZ so.

Yeah, I’d rather this long wait be used with one of the original contenders in mind.

Collapse2005 wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:Nothing against the posters on here but that toy out of pram throwing was unnecessary, given the bigger picture. Come on Japan.

You are referring to the threat of legal action?

I am indeed. Totally classless.

EnglishReign wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:Nothing against the posters on here but that toy out of pram throwing was unnecessary, given the bigger picture. Come on Japan.

You are referring to the threat of legal action?

I am indeed. Totally classless.

Do you honestly believe that England, Wales, Ireland or any of the other big boys would not have done the same thing had they been in that situation?

Pointing out that there was actually plenty of options to re-schedule the games had there been the willingness to do so and that the competition rules were perhaps not quite as legally watertight as they thought they might be does not make Scotland the bad guys.

This was almost always likely to be the deciding game for us and Japan in our group and to avoid playing it was simply ludicrous and would have devalued the whole competition.

I feel equally gutted for the other players who missed their opportunities in the WC because of the cancellations many of them having spent years preparing for this tournament.

It is not incompatible to feel that way, whilst being equally respectful of the situation in Japan with the dangers of the Typhoon.

This was a mess created by the poor planning of World Rugby and is not the fault of the SRU to speak up on behalf of its team.

Scotland were right in my view, agree with you completely Biggee

Collapse2005 wrote:Scotland were right in my view

Dodson was 100% in the wrong to threaten legal action in my view. He could push them to look at alternatives, but he should have been fully aware of the rules before hand. Fans were. 

The option of moving to 22km away was obviously flawed, but the logistics of moving further afield in a country where they were trying to move 10m people and were stopping frivolous travel were extremely difficult.

Dodson could have gained the moral high ground, instead he chose to behave like a lady garden. In doing so he belittled the deaths and destroyed homes we have seen. He has been shown over the last few years to be an incompetent administrator more interested in his perks than the health of Scottish Rugby. 

IMO he is morally bankrupt disgrace.

sensisball wrote:Mikey
For me it's win win scenario. We win and deny Japan enough points and we on to face a hammering from the blackness. We lose and Toonie gets the boot (fingers crossed). I think the latter outcome is more likely.
I've just thought there is a nightmare scenario: we win but Japan gets bonus point to quality, Toonie blames typhoon baabag affecting the build up and the SRU happily let's Toonie continue as coach as they don't have the nads to do the right thing.

You know what would be crazy? The result being 6-6 draw.

Dodson could have gained the moral high ground, instead he chose to behave like a lady garden.



Love that.

Come LT. Stop sitting on the fence.

LondonTiger wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Scotland were right in my view

Dodson was 100% in the wrong to threaten legal action in my view. He could push them to look at alternatives, but he should have been fully aware of the rules before hand. Fans were. 

The option of moving to 22km away was obviously flawed, but the logistics of moving further afield in a country where they were trying to move 10m people and were stopping frivolous travel were extremely difficult.

Dodson could have gained the moral high ground, instead he chose to behave like a lady garden. In doing so he belittled the deaths and destroyed homes we have seen. He has been shown over the last few years to be an incompetent administrator more interested in his perks than the health of Scottish Rugby. 

IMO he is morally bankrupt disgrace.

The game did not need to be moved, merely re-scheduled for the following day, where it could have been played behind closed doors if necessary.

I am curious as to what you would have regarded as acceptable had England been in that situation and facing going out through no fault of their own?

Very easy to say when your team has already qualified. World Rugby screwed up and Scotland were right to put them on notice given how much is at stake. Thats the world we live in these days.

Tbf it's all moot now. Lesson learned from the administrators of each of the unions to ensure they know what they're signing up to however.

Collapse2005 wrote:Very easy to say when your team has already qualified. World Rugby screwed up and Scotland were right to put them on notice  given how much is at stake. Thats the world we live in these days.

There are different ways to achieve the same result.

Going to threats f legal action should have been their last resort, not their first move. That is what made is distasteful.

Old Man wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Very easy to say when your team has already qualified. World Rugby screwed up and Scotland were right to put them on notice  given how much is at stake. Thats the world we live in these days.

There are different ways to achieve the same result.

Going to threats f legal action should have been their last resort, not their first move. That is what made is distasteful.

It was most certainly not their first move, an awful lot of discussion happened between WR and the Unions prior to that and it was the intransigence from WR that caused Dodson to up the ante. Japan by all accounts were not comfortable with the situation and were also happy to move the game.

WR backed themselves into a corner when they binned the Italians and Paraise was right in my opinion when he said that that would not have been done to NZ or England!

BigGee wrote:

Old Man wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Very easy to say when your team has already qualified. World Rugby screwed up and Scotland were right to put them on notice  given how much is at stake. Thats the world we live in these days.

There are different ways to achieve the same result.

Going to threats f legal action should have been their last resort, not their first move. That is what made is distasteful.

It was most certainly not their first move, an awful lot of discussion happened between WR and the Unions prior to that and it was the intransigence from WR that caused Dodson to up the ante. Japan by all accounts were not comfortable with the situation and were also happy to move the game.

WR backed themselves into a corner when they binned the Italians and Paraise was right in my opinion when he said that that would not have been done to NZ or England!

If that was the case their cause would have been better served and supported by the public if there was more transparency in the processes that was followed.

Well said Collapse.

I have absolutely no idea how this match will play out.But then again I have absolutely no idea how Pritti Patel got sacked from Theresa may's Cabinet for using her position in the MOD to sell "privileged information" to lobbyists working for private firms but then got made Home Secretary by Boris Johnson (she's in charge of the police now) and had the nerve to stand on stage at the Tory conference and begin her speech by saying that she was "glad to see the party of Law And Order is back in government".

I think the side who really want it, and turn up will win. Japan NEVER fail to turn up: Scotland

IF Scotland turn up they will win. If we repeat Cardiff, Twickenham, Ireland in the group stages....

Can't wait.

Old Man wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Very easy to say when your team has already qualified. World Rugby screwed up and Scotland were right to put them on notice  given how much is at stake. Thats the world we live in these days.

There are different ways to achieve the same result.

Going to threats f legal action should have been their last resort, not their first move. That is what made is distasteful.

If thats why you find it disrespectful then thats your view no issues with that but I believe the SRU had already engaged with world rugby. I also think that given world rugby had already cancelled games that could have been postponed that effectively already eliminated one team Scotland needed to make their position clear that it wasnt going to be ok for them.

BigGee wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Scotland were right in my view

Dodson was 100% in the wrong to threaten legal action in my view. He could push them to look at alternatives, but he should have been fully aware of the rules before hand. Fans were. 

The option of moving to 22km away was obviously flawed, but the logistics of moving further afield in a country where they were trying to move 10m people and were stopping frivolous travel were extremely difficult.

Dodson could have gained the moral high ground, instead he chose to behave like a lady garden. In doing so he belittled the deaths and destroyed homes we have seen. He has been shown over the last few years to be an incompetent administrator more interested in his perks than the health of Scottish Rugby. 

IMO he is morally bankrupt disgrace.

The game did not need to be moved, merely re-scheduled for the following day, where it could have been played behind closed doors if necessary.

I am curious as to what you would have regarded as acceptable had England been in that situation and facing going out through no fault of their own?

I would have been upset, and hoped the RFU handled it in a respectful manner. However going out because your team performed crap, like 2015, is worse than being on the downside of fate. 

If this had been England then the interweb would have torn us a new arse hole.

Collateral damage was the expression that Dodson, who is actually pretty articulate, used and it was probably the appropriate expression!

Anyway, the match is on and who goes through will be decided on the pitch, as it should be, so time to move on.

We will have no complaints now and on-one to blame but ourselves if we now fail to qualify and I will wish Japan all the best going forward if that is the case.

Hopefully lessons will be learnt all round from this situation.

LondonTiger wrote:

BigGee wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Scotland were right in my view

Dodson was 100% in the wrong to threaten legal action in my view. He could push them to look at alternatives, but he should have been fully aware of the rules before hand. Fans were. 

The option of moving to 22km away was obviously flawed, but the logistics of moving further afield in a country where they were trying to move 10m people and were stopping frivolous travel were extremely difficult.

Dodson could have gained the moral high ground, instead he chose to behave like a lady garden. In doing so he belittled the deaths and destroyed homes we have seen. He has been shown over the last few years to be an incompetent administrator more interested in his perks than the health of Scottish Rugby. 

IMO he is morally bankrupt disgrace.

The game did not need to be moved, merely re-scheduled for the following day, where it could have been played behind closed doors if necessary.

I am curious as to what you would have regarded as acceptable had England been in that situation and facing going out through no fault of their own?

I would have been upset, and hoped the RFU handled it in a respectful manner. However going out because your team performed crap, like 2015, is worse than being on the downside of fate. 

If this had been England then the interweb would have torn us a new arse hole.

Completely correct LT. The world would be chastising England because everyone hates us.

Come on Japan....

Worth remember that we only see snippets and headlines from press conferences - the Mark Dodson one was 2 hours long. He talked in detail about all the things they'd been doing behind the scenes with world rugby. This was very much a last resort given they were hitting a brick wall.

WR relied on chance for this game to go ahead, which isn't great after 10 years of preparation!

Those who believe the SRU behaved badly should take a moment to enlighten us on what they believe that their own union would have done when it appeared for all intents and purposes that they were being ignored, as 4 other nations were in the days prior. They have to be seen to support their players and once the match had been cancelled it would have been too late for that to change.

Amazing what a threat of a large claim will do to clarify the thinking of just about anyone. Nobody will ever know what happened in the black box of the tournament organiser's committee but it would certainly have been one component in their decision making. Those people who think it had no bearing are being naive.

I think that most of us are older than 7 and realise that these are exceptional circumstances and WR have been put in a very difficult situation by circumstances which nobody can control. That's not what we're talking about and it's not what the SRU were talking about either. Nobody could possibly criticise the organisers if there were no other options. But there were other options.

If Wales or England were looking down the barrel of being thrown out of a tournament they had been preparing a year for at huge sunken expense when a number of other practical alternatives at least deserved to be talked about, these boards would have spontaneously combusted. Let's not be disingenuous about the SRU's position - just pointless, woke posturing for anyone with no skin in the game to suggest otherwise.

Good luck to both sides and there's no other team I would rather see progress at the expense of Scotland.

LondonTiger wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Scotland were right in my view

Dodson was 100% in the wrong to threaten legal action in my view. He could push them to look at alternatives, but he should have been fully aware of the rules before hand. Fans were. 

Don't really get the anti-legal tak. Who says that pressure didn't focus WR's minds on getting the decision spot on? Well within their rights to do it, even if it's unseemly against the back drop of death and destruction.

Should be a cracking game anyway. I want scotland to go through but at least theres the back up of having ireland face New Zealand should they do it. You would imagine japan have a lot of contrasting emotions this morning and we've seen teams go 1 of 2 ways with that sort of thing. Hope both teams turn up.

Onto the big one then. Would love to see Japan win and top the group, sorry Scots.

mikey_dragon wrote:Onto the big one then. Would love to see Japan win and top the group, sorry Scots.

Most neutrals will be going for Japan and why wouldn't they!

Very excited for this game, Scotland, Japan, Wallabies and the All Blacks all play a very similar style of running game so it'll be sad to see one leaving the comp today. I am hoping Scotland just go for it and play their fast paced expansive game with some excellent kicking from Hogg and Russell. This should be a firecracker of a test match for the neutral. I just hope Scotland can start well for a change against strong opposition.

I think a lot of us wouldn't be too upset if that's the way we conceded tbf. I have a lot of time for Japan, obviously I'd like Scotland to win but if Japan finish the pool on a high and a 1st place qf, my hat would be off to them.

Scotland were fully justified in threatening legal action, i'll admit I want Japan to win today but were it England on the verge of being knocked out i'd be far from happy especially when the match could be brought forward or moved back by a day.

If Japan can cope with the expectation/pressure, they should win.

Should be a good game. The nation of Japan and World Rugby needs it to be a cracker.

I like Japan's anthem. Strange it's on first though.

SRU will need to roll out the marketing boys after rolling out the lawyers.

Every other nation would have done the same in our position but we were the only ones in the position so we’ve come out looking like the bad boys here.

Not only have we been lacking in compassion but we could be the ones knocking out the hosts.

I don’t like this feeling of the world against us. Makes me feel like an English supporter!

I don't think I have ever been so nervous before a game. I feel this just isn't going to go our way.