2019 General Election

by Duty281 Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:40 am

First topic message reminder :

Now it's confirmed for December 12th (pretty much), I thought we should have a shiny new thread for the fourth and final UK GE of this tumultuous decade; a decade which has also included three referendums and four (maybe five) different Prime Ministers.

News this morning that Amber Rudd won't be defending her seat. Oh well.

Opinion polls currently have the Tories in a double digit lead, but it's anticipated to be a lot tighter than that by the time we reach the actual polling day.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:25 am

dyrewolfe wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Everyone expected them to do as well as they did in the European elections. I certainly did.

UKIP's "decent" election netted them exactly zero seats.

Farage has also shown his true colours by refusing to stand again. He's a coward. He's taken deposits from so many people, then reneged on them standing by stepping aside for the Tories on all those seats. Bet he's still keeping their money though. What a snake.

Ha! You're really salty about this, aren't you? What did Farage do to upset you so much?

First off, You =/= Everyone.

1. Can think of 350 million reasons but these will do for now..

2. Made a name for himself by crapping on hard working immigrants..

3. Puking on an NHS he doesn't have to use...Free Healthcare for all at the point of use is something any respectable Country should aspire to..

4. Takes money off all kinds of scumbags..Aaron Banks etc.

5. The Brexit 'Victory' will hurt the UK for decades to come..

6. Admires Trump..

7. Just a bigoted. low life...narcissist with a Messiah complex.

by dyrewolfe Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:43 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Everyone expected them to do as well as they did in the European elections. I certainly did.

UKIP's "decent" election netted them exactly zero seats.

Farage has also shown his true colours by refusing to stand again. He's a coward. He's taken deposits from so many people, then reneged on them standing by stepping aside for the Tories on all those seats. Bet he's still keeping their money though. What a snake.

Ha! You're really salty about this, aren't you? What did Farage do to upset you so much?

First off, You =/= Everyone.

1. Can think of 350 million reasons but these will do for now..

2. Made a name for himself by crapping on hard working immigrants..

3. Puking on an NHS he doesn't have to use...Free Healthcare for all at the point of use is something any respectable Country should aspire to..

4. Takes money off all kinds of scumbags..Aaron Banks etc.

5. The Brexit 'Victory' will hurt the UK for decades to come..

6. Admires Trump..

7. Just a bigoted. low life...narcissist with a Messiah complex.

Erm...those are opinions, not reasons. Unless you have any actual proof.

Okay he likes Trump...but no-one's perfect.

by **Pr4wn** Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:56 am

Re number 5 there have been countless studies about the economic impact of Brexit, overwhelmingly stating that the UK will be worse off as a result.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:12 am

dyrewolfe wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Everyone expected them to do as well as they did in the European elections. I certainly did.

UKIP's "decent" election netted them exactly zero seats.

Farage has also shown his true colours by refusing to stand again. He's a coward. He's taken deposits from so many people, then reneged on them standing by stepping aside for the Tories on all those seats. Bet he's still keeping their money though. What a snake.

Ha! You're really salty about this, aren't you? What did Farage do to upset you so much?

First off, You =/= Everyone.

1. Can think of 350 million reasons but these will do for now..

2. Made a name for himself by crapping on hard working immigrants..

3. Puking on an NHS he doesn't have to use...Free Healthcare for all at the point of use is something any respectable Country should aspire to..

4. Takes money off all kinds of scumbags..Aaron Banks etc.

5. The Brexit 'Victory' will hurt the UK for decades to come..

6. Admires Trump..

7. Just a bigoted. low life...narcissist with a Messiah complex.

Erm...those are opinions, not reasons. Unless you have any actual proof.

Okay he likes Trump...but no-one's perfect.

Rhetoric on Immigrants...Romanians in particular is proof enough...HIV remarks etc....

Wants to privatise the NHS.

Aaron Banks gave him personal expenses during the EU referendum.

On record as admiring Trump.

Maybe learn some things about Farage before commenting ??

Just a thought.

by Luke Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:05 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Everyone expected them to do as well as they did in the European elections. I certainly did.

UKIP's "decent" election netted them exactly zero seats.

Farage has also shown his true colours by refusing to stand again. He's a coward. He's taken deposits from so many people, then reneged on them standing by stepping aside for the Tories on all those seats. Bet he's still keeping their money though. What a snake.

Ha! You're really salty about this, aren't you? What did Farage do to upset you so much?

First off, You =/= Everyone.

Nobody with an ounce of common sense expected BP to perform as well as they did. They're a new party that had only been in existence for a few months at the time...yet they got half the seats. Contrast that with the Change / Barcode Party who got zilch. Could just as easily have been BP, but the fact it wasn't shows their message resonates with a lot of voters.

UKIP didn't win any seats, but they scared the Tories into adopting a more right-wing stance. You can argue thats a kind of success in itself.

Finally, can you provide a plausible argument as to why not wanting to stand makes you a coward? Farage has stated multiple times that he has no wish to be an MP. He has served as an MEP for over 20 years. He's been involved in politics for a good deal of his life and has said he's looking to wind down his active involvement. He's already retired once and only came back to try and ensure we get a Brexit thats not just in name only.

If anything, its a smart move to simply support new / younger candidates. He can also continue to influence and shape policy behind the scenes.

Difference is, given that it's a general election. You need more than we want to leave Europe as the only thing your party stands for. You need things about the economy,NHS, public transport etc. They haven't got that. They will get some votes,but especially since he's done what he's done alot if people won't vote for him. As basically he lied and stood half his party and didn't even tell them within 3 days.

As for the coward, he didn't put himself in the firing line. And you'd want your leader to lead from the front, and put himself into battle. Than just stand behind the trenches. Even Boris is standing.

by JDizzle Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:39 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Everyone expected them to do as well as they did in the European elections. I certainly did.

UKIP's "decent" election netted them exactly zero seats.

Farage has also shown his true colours by refusing to stand again. He's a coward. He's taken deposits from so many people, then reneged on them standing by stepping aside for the Tories on all those seats. Bet he's still keeping their money though. What a snake.

Ha! You're really salty about this, aren't you? What did Farage do to upset you so much?

First off, You =/= Everyone.

Nobody with an ounce of common sense expected BP to perform as well as they did. They're a new party that had only been in existence for a few months at the time...yet they got half the seats. Contrast that with the Change / Barcode Party who got zilch. Could just as easily have been BP, but the fact it wasn't shows their message resonates with a lot of voters.

UKIP didn't win any seats, but they scared the Tories into adopting a more right-wing stance. You can argue thats a kind of success in itself.

Finally, can you provide a plausible argument as to why not wanting to stand makes you a coward? Farage has stated multiple times that he has no wish to be an MP. He has served as an MEP for over 20 years. He's been involved in politics for a good deal of his life and has said he's looking to wind down his active involvement. He's already retired once and only came back to try and ensure we get a Brexit thats not just in name only.

If anything, its a smart move to simply support new / younger candidates. He can also continue to influence and shape policy behind the scenes.

Given the BP were polling around what they got in the election for at least a month before polling day, I think everyone expected them to do exactly as well as they did.

And I can’t wait to see these younger and newer candidates like *squints* Ann Widdecombe.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:43 pm

Well, the £500 that Duty has explained is just a little money to the local governing body seems to not have been reiterated to the candidates who have called him a traitor now, have spent thousands in preparation for campaigning and don't agree with the Tory Brexit stance.

I certainly suspect the other alliances are coming about a bit more willingly and after much more discussion with MPs and members. Probably no peerages being offered...

On the Canterbury candidate pulling himself out of the race: figures within the party and local members arguing against the party heads to fill that gap. Equally, it's a rather big move to tell local voters that they should go vote for someone else, which is what he's done. They'll listen, undoubtedly.

by JDizzle Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:56 pm

Think the Libs are doing the right thing by standing in Canterbury to be honest. I know it is fairly engrained in us now that politicians will say one thing and do another, but it’s impossible to square Swinson’s statement that Corbyn isn’t fit to be PM by standing down a candidate to let Labour win a seat - however pro EU the candidate is, and Rosie Duffield does seem a good one.

by Duty281 Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:01 pm

Luke wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Everyone expected them to do as well as they did in the European elections. I certainly did.

UKIP's "decent" election netted them exactly zero seats.

Farage has also shown his true colours by refusing to stand again. He's a coward. He's taken deposits from so many people, then reneged on them standing by stepping aside for the Tories on all those seats. Bet he's still keeping their money though. What a snake.

Ha! You're really salty about this, aren't you? What did Farage do to upset you so much?

First off, You =/= Everyone.

Nobody with an ounce of common sense expected BP to perform as well as they did. They're a new party that had only been in existence for a few months at the time...yet they got half the seats. Contrast that with the Change / Barcode Party who got zilch. Could just as easily have been BP, but the fact it wasn't shows their message resonates with a lot of voters.

UKIP didn't win any seats, but they scared the Tories into adopting a more right-wing stance. You can argue thats a kind of success in itself.

Finally, can you provide a plausible argument as to why not wanting to stand makes you a coward? Farage has stated multiple times that he has no wish to be an MP. He has served as an MEP for over 20 years. He's been involved in politics for a good deal of his life and has said he's looking to wind down his active involvement. He's already retired once and only came back to try and ensure we get a Brexit thats not just in name only.

If anything, its a smart move to simply support new / younger candidates. He can also continue to influence and shape policy behind the scenes.

Difference is, given that it's a general election. You need more than we want to leave Europe as the only thing your party stands for. You need things about the economy,NHS, public transport etc. They haven't got that. They will get some votes,but especially since he's done what he's done alot if people won't vote for him. As basically he lied and stood half his party and didn't even tell them within 3 days.

As for the coward, he didn't put himself in the firing line. And you'd want your leader to lead from the front, and put himself into battle. Than just stand behind the trenches. Even Boris is standing.

Of course Johnson is standing - he's got a safe seat which requires zero work, and he needs to stand in order to continue being PM.

by Duty281 Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:06 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Well, the £500 that Duty has explained is just a little money to the local governing body seems to not have been reiterated to the candidates who have called him a traitor now, have spent thousands in preparation for campaigning and don't agree with the Tory Brexit stance.

Well the original point related to the mandatory deposits that, for some reason, one poster thought Farage was personally pocketing, when of course the £500 goes to the local governing body. I can agree with any (now withdrawn) candidates who are a bit hacked off and who don't agree with the Tory Brexit stance. Any one who has spent thousands in preparation for campaigning, however, is a clueless idiot.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:08 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Finally, can you provide a plausible argument as to why not wanting to stand makes you a coward? Farage has stated multiple times that he has no wish to be an MP. He has served as an MEP for over 20 years. He's been involved in politics for a good deal of his life and has said he's looking to wind down his active involvement. He's already retired once and only came back to try and ensure we get a Brexit thats not just in name only.

Firstly, he should be salty, it should anger most moderate people that Farage exists in the public sphere.

Secondly, this line is a bit trite. He's led us to believe MEPs do nothing, anyway. And considering he's not even been an MP, I doubt he's had quite the tiring political life of others.

The man can't win so won't bother, that's it. Good as that. He's not winding down, unless you truly believe you'll be seeing less of him any time soon, and he's not had a hard political life he deserves a rest from.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:10 pm

The 606 poll is probably the only Poll in the Country with Labour ahead..

This Lib Dem Canterbury row is awkward for Swinson...After all Brexit would ruin millions of lives according to her and yet she wants the 'remain Labour MP' to lose to an arch Brexiteer by the look of it.

by Samo Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:18 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Finally, can you provide a plausible argument as to why not wanting to stand makes you a coward? Farage has stated multiple times that he has no wish to be an MP. He has served as an MEP for over 20 years. He's been involved in politics for a good deal of his life and has said he's looking to wind down his active involvement. He's already retired once and only came back to try and ensure we get a Brexit thats not just in name only.

This is your daily PSA that per the terms on the ballot paper there is no such thing as "Brexit in name only".

by Duty281 Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:20 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The 606 poll is probably the only Poll in the Country with Labour ahead..

This Lib Dem Canterbury row is awkward for Swinson...After all Brexit would ruin millions of lives according to her and yet she wants the 'remain Labour MP' to lose to an arch Brexiteer by the look of it.

Awkward and damaging row for Swinson to be dragged into. It's a seat that is going blue whether the LDs stand or not - all these negative headlines are ultimately doing harm to her cause.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:23 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
This Lib Dem Canterbury row is awkward for Swinson...After all Brexit would ruin millions of lives according to her and yet she wants the 'remain Labour MP' to lose to an arch Brexiteer by the look of it.

You know that's not the case, Truss. Labour rejecting any reciprocity a while back means they have to stand as a legitimate third choice. Once a pact was refused, it was going to go like this. On a case by case level, candidates will definitely have that feeling, but Swinson can't do it outwardly. Especially as the party itself needs not be seen supporting Corbyn

by MrInvisible Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:23 pm

Whether you're a Remain-minded Tory, an ardent Farage fan, a died-in-the-wool Lib Dem, a passionate Green, a Corbynista or a New Labourite, it seems obvious to me that the various official and unofficial electoral pacts going on really highlight how unfit for purpose our First Past the Post electoral system is - the various pacts going on are trying to 'game' this illogical system.

Unless you're in one of the marginals your vote more often than not counts for v little. If you're a Labour voter in a rural Lincolnshire seat or a Tory voter in Liverpool your vote counts for nothing. I live in an ultra-safe seat so my vote makes little difference, whereas my parents live in an ultra-marginal where the winning party is likely to get a majority of less than 1,000.

A shame that Clegg blew an excellent chance for Lib Dems by accepting the unsatisfactory AV as an option in the referendum that everyone forgot rather than insisting on full PR as a red-line for serving in coalition. If Swinson gets a similar chance this December in a hung parliament will she also blow it?

by Luke Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:34 pm

Yes. She seems alot like Clegg to me. More interested in getting power however she can than having a moral standard.
But I do feel, sooner or later it will move to pr. The first past the post system only really works if you have 2 party's standing at an election. Though the problem with it, is you'd never have a ruling party. And every election would result in a coalition. Wether that's a good thing or not is open to debate.

by Luke Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:02 pm

I should expand that. Or is possibly the only way to make people feel like there vote matters for reasons mrinvsible said. You want more people to vote and be interested in politics. This is the way to go to me.

Coalition government works if the main aim is to improve and provide a balanced government.
Our lot it's just one upmanship, who to blame, and sneering. Which is why I don't believe it will work in this country for along time unfortunately.

by Luke Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:03 pm

Pr,stupid autocorrect

by **navyblueshorts** Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:05 pm

MrInvisible wrote:Whether you're a Remain-minded Tory, an ardent Farage fan, a died-in-the-wool Lib Dem, a passionate Green, a Corbynista or a New Labourite, it seems obvious to me that the various official and unofficial electoral pacts going on really highlight how unfit for purpose our First Past the Post electoral system is - the various pacts going on are trying to 'game' this illogical system.

Unless you're in one of the marginals your vote more often than not counts for v little. If you're a Labour voter in a rural Lincolnshire seat or a Tory voter in Liverpool your vote counts for nothing. I live in an ultra-safe seat so my vote makes little difference, whereas my parents live in an ultra-marginal where the winning party is likely to get a majority of less than 1,000.

A shame that Clegg blew an excellent chance for Lib Dems by accepting the unsatisfactory AV as an option in the referendum that everyone forgot rather than insisting on full PR as a red-line for serving in coalition. If Swinson gets a similar chance this December in a hung parliament will she also blow it?

Agreed. Why is more not being made about these sh!tty pacts being proposed/made? Until, and unless, we somehow get a grown up political system, we'll get what we deserve again and again.

by MrInvisible Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:25 pm

With regards to coalitions, in addition to Lib Dem/Tory 2010-15 coalition, we do have experience elsewhere within this country, of SNP/Green in Scottish Parliament and Labour/Plaid in Wales - looking from the outside over in England these look pretty stable and effective to me, and the different voting system there (along with that of London Assembly) looks attractive to me.

Looking at SNP purely from a political representation point of view, the Scottish Parliament is a more realistic reflection of support than Westminster (and similarly for Labour when they used to dominate the Scottish Westminster constituencies).

I dislike Farage/UKIP/Brexit with a passion but got to admit that considering the number of votes UKIP have received in general elections its not right they only ended up with the 1 MP. Likewise, the Greens, who only have Caroline Lucas to show for all the support they have nationally.

by Luke Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:33 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
MrInvisible wrote:Whether you're a Remain-minded Tory, an ardent Farage fan, a died-in-the-wool Lib Dem, a passionate Green, a Corbynista or a New Labourite, it seems obvious to me that the various official and unofficial electoral pacts going on really highlight how unfit for purpose our First Past the Post electoral system is - the various pacts going on are trying to 'game' this illogical system.

Unless you're in one of the marginals your vote more often than not counts for v little. If you're a Labour voter in a rural Lincolnshire seat or a Tory voter in Liverpool your vote counts for nothing. I live in an ultra-safe seat so my vote makes little difference, whereas my parents live in an ultra-marginal where the winning party is likely to get a majority of less than 1,000.

A shame that Clegg blew an excellent chance for Lib Dems by accepting the unsatisfactory AV as an option in the referendum that everyone forgot rather than insisting on full PR as a red-line for serving in coalition. If Swinson gets a similar chance this December in a hung parliament will she also blow it?
Agreed. Why is more not being made about these sh!tty pacts being proposed/made? Until, and unless, we somehow get a grown up political system, we'll get what we deserve again and again.

Agree, all parties should stand in all seats. And whoever wins fair play. I hate that I might not be able to vote for whoever I want to, simply because they may not be standing due to a pact.

by **Afro** Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:40 pm

Luke wrote:Yes. She seems alot like Clegg to me. More interested in getting power however she can than having a moral standard.
But I do feel, sooner or later it will move to pr. The first past the post system only really works if you have 2 party's standing at an election. Though the problem with it, is you'd never have a ruling party. And every election would result in a coalition. Wether that's a good thing or not is open to debate.

This is one of the reasons why I'm in favour of PR. It would require the political parties to grow up and work together a little bit more rather than spend their time slagging each other off. They would also have to compromise and develop policies that match the political spectrum and therefore the public, a little closer, rather than just the 30-40% of people who voted for them

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:03 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
This Lib Dem Canterbury row is awkward for Swinson...After all Brexit would ruin millions of lives according to her and yet she wants the 'remain Labour MP' to lose to an arch Brexiteer by the look of it.

You know that's not the case, Truss. Labour rejecting any reciprocity a while back means they have to stand as a legitimate third choice. Once a pact was refused, it was going to go like this. On a case by case level, candidates will definitely have that feeling, but Swinson can't do it outwardly. Especially as the party itself needs not be seen supporting Corbyn

Either Brexit is going to ruin millions of lives or it isn't...

She can't have it both ways...

Bollox to Corbyn and a Labour pact..She is the one who has warned of 'Armageddon'..

This guy in Canterbury can see the bigger picture...Not a good look replacing him..

by Soul Requiem Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:20 pm

So undermining the party leader is fine as long as it's not Corbyn then eh Truss?

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:28 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:So undermining the party leader is fine as long as it's not Corbyn then eh Truss?

Good job you are here to extrapolate and simplify..

by **Pr4wn** Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:10 am

Afro wrote:
Luke wrote:Yes. She seems alot like Clegg to me. More interested in getting power however she can than having a moral standard.
But I do feel, sooner or later it will move to pr. The first past the post system only really works if you have 2 party's standing at an election. Though the problem with it, is you'd never have a ruling party. And every election would result in a coalition. Wether that's a good thing or not is open to debate.

This is one of the reasons why I'm in favour of PR. It would require the political parties to grow up and work together a little bit more rather than spend their time slagging each other off. They would also have to compromise and develop policies that match the political spectrum and therefore the public, a little closer, rather than just the 30-40% of people who voted for them

This.

Coalitions aren't a bad thing at all. Yes they're less stable and might result in more elections overall, but parties will have to work together, compromise and negotiate.

by Luke Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:15 am

Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Everyone expected them to do as well as they did in the European elections. I certainly did.

UKIP's "decent" election netted them exactly zero seats.

Farage has also shown his true colours by refusing to stand again. He's a coward. He's taken deposits from so many people, then reneged on them standing by stepping aside for the Tories on all those seats. Bet he's still keeping their money though. What a snake.

Ha! You're really salty about this, aren't you? What did Farage do to upset you so much?

First off, You =/= Everyone.

Nobody with an ounce of common sense expected BP to perform as well as they did. They're a new party that had only been in existence for a few months at the time...yet they got half the seats. Contrast that with the Change / Barcode Party who got zilch. Could just as easily have been BP, but the fact it wasn't shows their message resonates with a lot of voters.

UKIP didn't win any seats, but they scared the Tories into adopting a more right-wing stance. You can argue thats a kind of success in itself.

Finally, can you provide a plausible argument as to why not wanting to stand makes you a coward? Farage has stated multiple times that he has no wish to be an MP. He has served as an MEP for over 20 years. He's been involved in politics for a good deal of his life and has said he's looking to wind down his active involvement. He's already retired once and only came back to try and ensure we get a Brexit thats not just in name only.

If anything, its a smart move to simply support new / younger candidates. He can also continue to influence and shape policy behind the scenes.

Difference is, given that it's a general election. You need more than we want to leave Europe as the only thing your party stands for. You need things about the economy,NHS, public transport etc. They haven't got that. They will get some votes,but especially since he's done what he's done alot if people won't vote for him. As basically he lied and stood half his party and didn't even tell them within 3 days.

As for the coward, he didn't put himself in the firing line. And you'd want your leader to lead from the front, and put himself into battle. Than just stand behind the trenches. Even Boris is standing.

Of course Johnson is standing - he's got a safe seat which requires zero work, and he needs to stand in order to continue being PM.

A) his seat might not be as safe as he thinks, given what happened with Heathrow runway 4, and his non voting pickle. I still expect him to win, but not by as bigger majority.
B) he's the leader of the party, so even if he doesn't stand, as long as the Tories win he will still be on.
C) given the reasons behind farage not standing, he could quite easily use the same excuse of he's campaigning and coordinating the Tories election policies.

by Luke Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:24 am

Afro wrote:
Luke wrote:Yes. She seems alot like Clegg to me. More interested in getting power however she can than having a moral standard.
But I do feel, sooner or later it will move to pr. The first past the post system only really works if you have 2 party's standing at an election. Though the problem with it, is you'd never have a ruling party. And every election would result in a coalition. Wether that's a good thing or not is open to debate.

This is one of the reasons why I'm in favour of PR. It would require the political parties to grow up and work together a little bit more rather than spend their time slagging each other off. They would also have to compromise and develop policies that match the political spectrum and therefore the public, a little closer, rather than just the 30-40% of people who voted for them

Agree in theory. For exactly the reasons you say, it seems to work in other countries, and if anything this election has shown we need to move on from the current way parties are.And the way politics as a whole is in this country. Into a more grown up, beneficial for the country system. Which this country certainly needs.

by Soul Requiem Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:03 am

Luke wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Everyone expected them to do as well as they did in the European elections. I certainly did.

UKIP's "decent" election netted them exactly zero seats.

Farage has also shown his true colours by refusing to stand again. He's a coward. He's taken deposits from so many people, then reneged on them standing by stepping aside for the Tories on all those seats. Bet he's still keeping their money though. What a snake.

Ha! You're really salty about this, aren't you? What did Farage do to upset you so much?

First off, You =/= Everyone.

Nobody with an ounce of common sense expected BP to perform as well as they did. They're a new party that had only been in existence for a few months at the time...yet they got half the seats. Contrast that with the Change / Barcode Party who got zilch. Could just as easily have been BP, but the fact it wasn't shows their message resonates with a lot of voters.

UKIP didn't win any seats, but they scared the Tories into adopting a more right-wing stance. You can argue thats a kind of success in itself.

Finally, can you provide a plausible argument as to why not wanting to stand makes you a coward? Farage has stated multiple times that he has no wish to be an MP. He has served as an MEP for over 20 years. He's been involved in politics for a good deal of his life and has said he's looking to wind down his active involvement. He's already retired once and only came back to try and ensure we get a Brexit thats not just in name only.

If anything, its a smart move to simply support new / younger candidates. He can also continue to influence and shape policy behind the scenes.

Difference is, given that it's a general election. You need more than we want to leave Europe as the only thing your party stands for. You need things about the economy,NHS, public transport etc. They haven't got that. They will get some votes,but especially since he's done what he's done alot if people won't vote for him. As basically he lied and stood half his party and didn't even tell them within 3 days.

As for the coward, he didn't put himself in the firing line. And you'd want your leader to lead from the front, and put himself into battle. Than just stand behind the trenches. Even Boris is standing.

Of course Johnson is standing - he's got a safe seat which requires zero work, and he needs to stand in order to continue being PM.

A) his seat might not be as safe as he thinks, given what happened with Heathrow runway 4, and his non voting pickle. I still expect him to win, but not by as bigger majority.
B) he's the leader of the party, so even if he doesn't stand, as long as the Tories win he will still be on.
C) given the reasons behind farage not standing, he could quite easily use the same excuse of he's campaigning and coordinating the Tories election policies.

You can only be PM if you're an MP and you can only be Tory party leader if you're an MP too.

by Luke Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:17 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
Luke wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Everyone expected them to do as well as they did in the European elections. I certainly did.

UKIP's "decent" election netted them exactly zero seats.

Farage has also shown his true colours by refusing to stand again. He's a coward. He's taken deposits from so many people, then reneged on them standing by stepping aside for the Tories on all those seats. Bet he's still keeping their money though. What a snake.

Ha! You're really salty about this, aren't you? What did Farage do to upset you so much?

First off, You =/= Everyone.

Nobody with an ounce of common sense expected BP to perform as well as they did. They're a new party that had only been in existence for a few months at the time...yet they got half the seats. Contrast that with the Change / Barcode Party who got zilch. Could just as easily have been BP, but the fact it wasn't shows their message resonates with a lot of voters.

UKIP didn't win any seats, but they scared the Tories into adopting a more right-wing stance. You can argue thats a kind of success in itself.

Finally, can you provide a plausible argument as to why not wanting to stand makes you a coward? Farage has stated multiple times that he has no wish to be an MP. He has served as an MEP for over 20 years. He's been involved in politics for a good deal of his life and has said he's looking to wind down his active involvement. He's already retired once and only came back to try and ensure we get a Brexit thats not just in name only.

If anything, its a smart move to simply support new / younger candidates. He can also continue to influence and shape policy behind the scenes.

Difference is, given that it's a general election. You need more than we want to leave Europe as the only thing your party stands for. You need things about the economy,NHS, public transport etc. They haven't got that. They will get some votes,but especially since he's done what he's done alot if people won't vote for him. As basically he lied and stood half his party and didn't even tell them within 3 days.

As for the coward, he didn't put himself in the firing line. And you'd want your leader to lead from the front, and put himself into battle. Than just stand behind the trenches. Even Boris is standing.

Of course Johnson is standing - he's got a safe seat which requires zero work, and he needs to stand in order to continue being PM.

A) his seat might not be as safe as he thinks, given what happened with Heathrow runway 4, and his non voting pickle. I still expect him to win, but not by as bigger majority.
B) he's the leader of the party, so even if he doesn't stand, as long as the Tories win he will still be on.
C) given the reasons behind farage not standing, he could quite easily use the same excuse of he's campaigning and coordinating the Tories election policies.

You can only be PM if you're an MP and you can only be Tory party leader if you're an MP too.

Right. So if he doesn't win his seat he's out then. Okay, wasn't fully sure if they changed that or not. My mistake.

by Soul Requiem Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:25 am

It's always been the way, the first lord of the treasury has to be a sitting member of the house of commons or lords, the latter has been against convention for over 65 years now; the last being Douglas Home who became an MP.

by **Afro** Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:26 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
Luke wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Everyone expected them to do as well as they did in the European elections. I certainly did.

UKIP's "decent" election netted them exactly zero seats.

Farage has also shown his true colours by refusing to stand again. He's a coward. He's taken deposits from so many people, then reneged on them standing by stepping aside for the Tories on all those seats. Bet he's still keeping their money though. What a snake.

Ha! You're really salty about this, aren't you? What did Farage do to upset you so much?

First off, You =/= Everyone.

Nobody with an ounce of common sense expected BP to perform as well as they did. They're a new party that had only been in existence for a few months at the time...yet they got half the seats. Contrast that with the Change / Barcode Party who got zilch. Could just as easily have been BP, but the fact it wasn't shows their message resonates with a lot of voters.

UKIP didn't win any seats, but they scared the Tories into adopting a more right-wing stance. You can argue thats a kind of success in itself.

Finally, can you provide a plausible argument as to why not wanting to stand makes you a coward? Farage has stated multiple times that he has no wish to be an MP. He has served as an MEP for over 20 years. He's been involved in politics for a good deal of his life and has said he's looking to wind down his active involvement. He's already retired once and only came back to try and ensure we get a Brexit thats not just in name only.

If anything, its a smart move to simply support new / younger candidates. He can also continue to influence and shape policy behind the scenes.

Difference is, given that it's a general election. You need more than we want to leave Europe as the only thing your party stands for. You need things about the economy,NHS, public transport etc. They haven't got that. They will get some votes,but especially since he's done what he's done alot if people won't vote for him. As basically he lied and stood half his party and didn't even tell them within 3 days.

As for the coward, he didn't put himself in the firing line. And you'd want your leader to lead from the front, and put himself into battle. Than just stand behind the trenches. Even Boris is standing.

Of course Johnson is standing - he's got a safe seat which requires zero work, and he needs to stand in order to continue being PM.

A) his seat might not be as safe as he thinks, given what happened with Heathrow runway 4, and his non voting pickle. I still expect him to win, but not by as bigger majority.
B) he's the leader of the party, so even if he doesn't stand, as long as the Tories win he will still be on.
C) given the reasons behind farage not standing, he could quite easily use the same excuse of he's campaigning and coordinating the Tories election policies.

You can only be PM if you're an MP and you can only be Tory party leader if you're an MP too.

Technically not true. The Tory party leader bit yes, but technically you do not need to be Tory leader to be PM, nor an MP. You can also be PM, or any other cabinet member, if you are a member of the House of Lords.

Conventionally though, you are right, but the Tories have shown in the last 4 months they don't always stick to convention.

by **superflyweight** Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:26 pm

Farage stating that he can't understand why the UK would 'shackle' itself to 15% of the world's economy (meaning the EU).

If he genuinely believes that this is the case then he is almost certainly retarded.

by lostinwales Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:34 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The 606 poll is probably the only Poll in the Country with Labour ahead..

This Lib Dem Canterbury row is awkward for Swinson...After all Brexit would ruin millions of lives according to her and yet she wants the 'remain Labour MP' to lose to an arch Brexiteer by the look of it.

The narrative is going to be that Labour would have won if it wasn't for those evil yellow Tories. Nothing to do with all the hard work they have put into making themselves virtually unelectable.

Unfortunately this kind of behaviour seems to have been a feature of much of Corbyn's career. Always on the right side of history, or would have been if everyone else had the sense to follow the same path. (But we'll never find out because they didn't).

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:05 pm

lostinwales wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The 606 poll is probably the only Poll in the Country with Labour ahead..

This Lib Dem Canterbury row is awkward for Swinson...After all Brexit would ruin millions of lives according to her and yet she wants the 'remain Labour MP' to lose to an arch Brexiteer by the look of it.

The narrative is going to be that Labour would have won if it wasn't for those evil yellow Tories. Nothing to do with all the hard work they have put into making themselves virtually unelectable.

Unfortunately this kind of behaviour seems to have been a feature of much of Corbyn's career. Always on the right side of history, or would have been if everyone else had the sense to follow the same path. (But we'll never find out because they didn't).

Doesn't matter who is to blame...Though putting out fake bar charts in places they can't win and crapping on Labour 24//7 does promote the idea that Brexit 'Armageddon' isn't quite the motivating factor behind the Lib Dem campaign.

Yes Corbyn is crap we know that..

With the new NHS figures being the worst ever...Homelessness and Poverty at record levels I'm not really bothered about the blame game.

Worried more about an ultra right wing clown and a damaging few years ahead.

New poll gives the Tories a 20% lead with the Working class...Sad to see so many Turkeys voting for Christmas

by GSC Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:16 pm

pretty sad that neither is prepared to compromise with the other. Labour won't have a majority on it's own and the Lib Dems have no chance.

only chance of stopping boris is to work together

by dyrewolfe Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:19 pm

GSC wrote:pretty sad that neither is prepared to compromise with the other. Labour won't have a majority on it's own and the Lib Dems have no chance.

only chance of stopping boris is to work together

The clearest indicator yet of just how broken Parliament (and UK politics in general) has been for the last few years. Everyone is so ideologically blinkered, selfish and exhibiting the closest thing you'll see to hatred in MPs, that they can't even contemplate co-operating / compromising, in order to achieve a bigger endgame goal.

And yes I include the Conservatives in that.

The SNP are particularly hilarious - refusing to have anything to do with anyone, unless they promise to let them have IndyRef II. Also being blatantly disrespectful and rude to the other main parties. Can't even bring themselves to admit they need Westminster's permission to have the referendum. Laugh

The only person taking anything like a pragmatic stance (with a view to winning / getting their way) is Nigel Farage.

So at this time, I still believe a Tory / BP alliance has the best chance of forming a workable coalition...even if Boris still wants to deny it.

Still, its very early days and plenty can change.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:43 pm

I'd support a Battle Royale contest - stick the lot of them on Ascension island (or similar) with only meleé or medieval projectile weapons. Last man/woman standing gets to form the next Government.

As good a method as anything I think.

by Luke Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:27 pm

Nigel Farage is insinuating that conservatives are ringing Brexit party candidates and abusing, terrifying them. To stop them standing for election in labour marginal seats.

If true, this is disgusting behaviour, and in a way shows just how scared, and afraid of the fight the Tories are.

Though did find it a bit rich for him to say " trying to prevent free men and woman putting themselves forward for the vote".
2 days after stopping 317 candidates from doing the same.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:46 pm

Britain Elects Poll of Polls, updated today:

Conservative - 37.2% - down 0.2%

Labour - 28.6% - up 2.2%

Lib Dem - 16.1% - no change

Brexit Party - 9.3% - down 1.3%

Green Party - 3% - down 0.5%

Others - 5.9% - down 0.2%

http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

by Soul Requiem Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:49 pm

Luke wrote:Nigel Farage is insinuating that conservatives are ringing Brexit party candidates and abusing, terrifying them. To stop them standing for election in labour marginal seats.

If true, this is disgusting behaviour, and in a way shows just how scared, and afraid of the fight the Tories are.

Though did find it a bit rich for him to say " trying to prevent free men and woman putting themselves forward for the vote".
2 days after stopping 317 candidates from doing the same.

Sounds legitimate if you ask me Doh

by Duty281 Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:06 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Britain Elects Poll of Polls, updated today:

Conservative - 37.2% - down 0.2%

Labour - 28.6% - up 2.2%

Lib Dem - 16.1% - no change

Brexit Party - 9.3% - down 1.3%

Green Party - 3% - down 0.5%

Others - 5.9% - down 0.2%

http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

Going forward, I hope polling companies are intelligent enough to only offer respondents a voting choice based on that respondent's specific constituency, otherwise the results could be skewed.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:17 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Britain Elects Poll of Polls, updated today:

Conservative - 37.2% - down 0.2%

Labour - 28.6% - up 2.2%

Lib Dem - 16.1% - no change

Brexit Party - 9.3% - down 1.3%

Green Party - 3% - down 0.5%

Others - 5.9% - down 0.2%

http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

Going forward, I hope polling companies are intelligent enough to only offer respondents a voting choice based on that respondent's specific constituency, otherwise the results could be skewed.

I saw something to that end on the YouGov website - they've changed their methodology.

It's far too early to tell, but if, as suggested here, a dropoff in support for the Brexit Party isn't matched by an upswing in support for the Tories, which is what you'd expect to happen, then that really does make things interesting.

by Soul Requiem Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:03 am

Free broadband laughing

by **superflyweight** Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:58 am

Given that its almost essential to modern living and will become even more so - why would you have a problem with free broadband?

by **Pr4wn** Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:01 am

He doesn't know, hence the infantile post.

by **superflyweight** Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:09 am

Yeah, he's just done that thing of seeing Labour announce a policy and immediately rubbish it without applying any thought.

I can be guilty of that with his posts.

by Samo Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:10 am

Something something taxes something something.

by **Pr4wn** Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:12 am

Whereas anyone who has had any experience with Openreach can attest to its need of complete reform.

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