Champions Cup Rounds 1 & 2

First topic message reminder :

Friday 15th November

19:45 Gloucester v Toulouse


Saturday 16th November

13:00 Bath v Ulster
13:00 Glasgow v Sale
15:15 Leinster v Benetton
15:15 La Rochelle v Northampton
17:30 Ospreys v Munster
17:30 Clermont v Harlequins


Sunday 17th November

13:00 Connacht v Montpelier
13:00 Northampton v Lyons
15:15 Racing 92 v Saracens




Friday 22nd November

19:45 Ulster v Clermont


Saturday 23rd November

13:00 Saracens v Ospreys
13:00 Benetton v Northampton
13:00 Toulouse v Connacht
15:15 Lyon v Leinster
15:15 Exeter v Glasgow
17:30 Munster v Racing 92
17:30 Harlequins v Bath


Sunday 24th November

13:00 Sale v La Rochelle
15:15 Montpelier v Gloucester

Only rhetorical if you support Man Utd and England in football as well. No drama

Cyril wrote:Only rhetorical if you support Man Utd and England in football as well. No drama

I definitely don’t.

Fair enough. It must be a poster with a similar name who used to post about travelling over to Old Trafford and being an England football fan as well as supporting all four provinces. I was sure it was you! Maybe they don’t post any more or have changed their name?

Pot Hale wrote:

Cyril wrote:Pot Hale, this is a club competition. Why do you always turn it around to national or league terms?

I would have thought that was fairly obvious, Cyril.

Or was yours a rhetorical question?  

Because the Irish national team has had very few bragging rights in 2019?

Mods wumming? Very naughty.

Cyril wrote:Mods wumming? Very naughty.

Indeed.

LondonTiger wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Cyril wrote:Pot Hale, this is a club competition. Why do you always turn it around to national or league terms?

I would have thought that was fairly obvious, Cyril.

Or was yours a rhetorical question?  

Because the Irish national team has had very few bragging rights in 2019?

Very few? You're being generous.

They were abysmal. Full stop.

Pot Hale wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Cyril wrote:Pot Hale, this is a club competition. Why do you always turn it around to national or league terms?

I would have thought that was fairly obvious, Cyril.

Or was yours a rhetorical question?  

Because the Irish national team has had very few bragging rights in 2019?

Very few?  You're being generous.

They were abysmal.  Full stop.

Scotland fans avoiding this comment

LondonTiger wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Cyril wrote:Pot Hale, this is a club competition. Why do you always turn it around to national or league terms?

I would have thought that was fairly obvious, Cyril.

Or was yours a rhetorical question?  

Because the Irish national team has had very few bragging rights in 2019?

We didn't win a World Cup, like we thought we might about a year ago.......

Oh cheer up, Fly! Just remembered a few others had that feeling too......

Gooseberry wrote:

Scotland fans avoiding this comment

Are you from Scotland, Goose?

ULSTER RUGBY
15. Will Addison, 14. Louis Ludik, 13. Luke Marshall, 12. Stuart McCloskey, 11. Jacob Stockdale, 10. Billy Burns, 9. John Cooney, 1. Eric O'Sullivan, 2. Rob Herring, 3. Marty Moore, 4. Alan O'Connor, 5. Iain Henderson (c), 6. Sean Reidy, 7. Jordi Murphy, 8. Marcell Coetzee.

Replacements:
16. Adam McBurney, 17. Kyle McCall, 18. Tom O'Toole, 19. Kieran Treadwell, 20. Nick Timoney, 21. David Shanahan, 22. Bill Johnston, 23. Craig Gilroy,

ASM CLERMONT AUVERGNE
15. Nick Abendanon, 14. Peter Betham, 13. Isaiah Toeava, 12. George Moala, 11. Alivereti Raka, 10. Jake McIntyre, 9. Greig Laidlaw, 1. Etienne Falgoux, 2. John Ulugia, 3. Rabah Slimani, 4. Paul Jedrasiak, 5. Sitaleki Timani, 6. Peceli Yato, 7. Arthur Iturria, 8. Fritz Lee (c).

Replacements:
16. Mike Tadjer, 17. Loni Uhila, 18. Davit Zirakashvili, 19. Thibault Lanen, 20. Lucas Dessaigne, 21. Morgan Parra, 22. Camille Lopez, 23. Apisai Naqalevu,

Clermont change both half backs and bring in Iturria, otherwise same starting XV that beat Quins.

SARACENS
15. Elliot Daly, 14. Roti Segun, 13. Duncan Taylor, 12. Brad Barritt (c), 11. Alex Lewington, 10. Manu Vunipola, 9. Tom Whiteley, 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Jack Singleton , 3. Titi Lamositele, 4. Will Skelton, 5. George Kruis, 6. Nick Isiekwe, 7. Ben Earl, 8. Jackson Wray.

Replacements:
16. Jamie George, 17. Richard Barrington, 18. Josh Ibuanokpe, 19. Joel Kpoku, 20. Andrew Christie, 21. Richard Wigglesworth, 22. Alex Lozowski, 23. Matt Gallagher

OSPREYS
15. Cai Evans, 14. Hanno Dirksen, 13. Owen Watkin, 12. Kieran Williams, 11. Tom Williams, 10. James Hook, 9. Aled Davies, 1. Nicky Smith, 2. Scott Otten, 3. Ma'afu Fia , 4. Adam Beard, 5. Bradley Davies, 6. Marvin Orie, 7. Olly Cracknell (c), 8. Morgan Morris.

Replacements:
16. Ifan Phillips, 17. Gareth Thomas, 18. Tom Botha, 19. Lloyd Ashley, 20. Sam Cross, 21. Shaun Venter, 22. Luke Price, 23. Tiaan Thomas-Wheeler,

BENETTON RUGBY
15. Jayden Hayward, 14. Iliesa Ratuva Tavuyara, 13. Nacho Brex, 12. Tommaso Benvenuti, 11. Monty Ioane, 10. Tommy Allan (c), 9. Dewaldt Duvenage, 1. Federico Zani, 2. Hame Faiva, 3. Marco Riccioni, 4. Ira Herbst, 5. Federico Ruzza, 6. Giovanni Pettinelli, 7. Braam Steyn, 8. Toa Halafihi.

Replacements:
16. Michele Mancini Parri, 17. Cherif Traore, 18. Tiziano Pasquali, 19. Niccolò Cannone, 20. Eli Snyman, 21. Marco Lazzaroni, 22. Tito Tebaldi, 23. Ian Keatley,

NORTHAMPTON SAINTS
15. Ahsee Tuala, 14. Ollie Sleightholme, 13. Matt Proctor, 12. Rory Hutchinson, 11. Tom Collins, 10. Dan Biggar, 9. Cobus Reinach, 1. Francois van Wyk, 2. Mikey Haywood, 3. Owen Franks, 4. Alex Moon, 5. Api Ratuniyarawa, 6. Jamie Gibson, 7. Lewis Ludlam, 8. Teimana Harrison (c).

Replacements:
16. Michael Van Vuuren, 17. Alex Waller, 18. Paul Hill, 19. Lewis Bean, 20. Mitch Eadie, 21. James Mitchell, 22. Fraser Dingwall, 23. George Furbank

TOULOUSE
15. Thomas Ramos, 14. Yoann Huget, 13. Sofiane Guitoune, 12. Lucas Tauzin, 11. Maxime Médard, 10. Romain Ntamack, 9. Sébastien Bézy, 1. Cyril Baille, 2. Peato Mauvaka, 3. Charlie Faumuina, 4. Richie Gray, 5. Joe Tekori, 6. Alban Placines, 7. Rynhardt Elstadt, 8. Jerome Kaino (c).

Replacements:
16. Julien Marchand, 17. Thomas du Toit, 18. Dorian Aldegheri, 19. Rory Arnold, 20. Selevasio Tolofua, 21. Francois Cros, 22. Pita Ahki, 23. Pierre Pages,

CONNACHT RUGBY
15. Matt Healy, 14. John Porch, 13. Tom Farrell, 12. Tom Daly, 11. Kyle Godwin, 10. Conor Fitzgerald, 9. Caolin Blade, 1. Peter McCabe, 2. David Heffernan, 3. Dominic Robertson-McCoy, 4. Ultan Dillane, 5. Quinn Roux (c), 6. Eoghan Masterson, 7. Colby Fainga'a, 8. Robin Copeland.

Replacements:
16. Shane Delahunt, 17. Matthew Burke, 18. Finlay Bealham, 19. Joe Maksymiw, 20. Paul Boyle, 21. Angus Lloyd, 22. Jack Carty, 23. Peter Robb,

EXETER CHIEFS
15. Stuart Hogg, 14. Jack Nowell, 13. Henry Slade, 12. Ian Whitten, 11. Tom O'Flaherty, 10. Joe Simmonds, 9. Nic White, 1. Alec Hepburn, 2. Jack Yeandle (c), 3. Harry Williams, 4. Dave Dennis, 5. Jonny Hill, 6. Dave Ewers, 7. Jacques Vermeulen, 8. Sam Simmonds.

Replacements:
16. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 17. Ben Moon, 18. Marcus Street, 19. Jannes Kirsten, 20. Don Armand, 21. Jack Maunder, 22. Gareth Steenson, 23. Sam Hill,

GLASGOW WARRIORS
15. Tommy Seymour, 14. Ratu Tagive, 13. Nick Grigg, 12. Samuel Johnson, 11. DTH van der Merwe, 10. Adam Hastings, 9. George Horne, 1. Oli Kebble, 2. Fraser Brown, 3. Zander Fagerson, 4. Robert Harley, 5. Scott Cummings, 6. Ryan Wilson (c), 7. Chris Fusaro, 8. Matt Fagerson.

Replacements:
16. George Turner, 17. Alex Allan, 18. D'Arcy Rae, 19. Kiran McDonald, 20. Tom Gordon, 21. Ali Price, 22. Peter Horne, 23. Kyle Steyn,

LondonTiger wrote:SARACENS
15. Elliot Daly, 14. Roti Segun, 13. Duncan Taylor, 12. Brad Barritt (c), 11. Alex Lewington, 10. Manu Vunipola, 9. Tom Whiteley, 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Jack Singleton , 3. Titi Lamositele, 4. Will Skelton, 5. George Kruis, 6. Nick Isiekwe, 7. Ben Earl, 8. Jackson Wray.

Replacements:
16. Jamie George, 17. Richard Barrington, 18. Josh Ibuanokpe, 19. Joel Kpoku, 20. Andrew Christie, 21. Richard Wigglesworth, 22. Alex Lozowski, 23. Matt Gallagher

OSPREYS
15. Cai Evans, 14. Hanno Dirksen, 13. Owen Watkin, 12. Kieran Williams, 11. Tom Williams, 10. James Hook, 9. Aled Davies, 1. Nicky Smith, 2. Scott Otten, 3. Ma'afu Fia , 4. Adam Beard, 5. Bradley Davies, 6. Marvin Orie, 7. Olly Cracknell (c), 8. Morgan Morris.

Replacements:
16. Ifan Phillips, 17. Gareth Thomas, 18. Tom Botha, 19. Lloyd Ashley, 20. Sam Cross, 21. Shaun Venter, 22. Luke Price, 23. Tiaan Thomas-Wheeler,

Can’t believe I’m supporting Ospreys. I feel dirty

When Aled Davies is considered one of your good players and he buys dummy's from a LH prop like that, there is no hope.

Ben Earl is a really classy player, and for all the hate shown his way by England fans so is Daly.

mikey_dragon wrote:When Aled Davies is considered one of your good players and he buys dummy's from a LH prop like that, there is no hope.

Some players just seem to be rated by coaches but on game day they are repeatedly knickers.

I’ve never understood it

Meanwhile James Hook looking as mobile as the Torrey Canyon.

Connacht and Bennetton doing better than I expected
Hope Bennetton get the TBP win

Connacht squad has really come on in the last few years (still expect them to lose)

LondonTiger wrote:Ben Earl is a really classy player, and for all the hate shown his way by England fans so is Daly.

Goode and Williams both being injured long term will give Daly an opportunity to develop as a fullback outside the international spotlight. I rate Daly very highly, don't think he's a specialist number 23 as some argue, but have never thought his best position is fullback.

Away to Allianz missing AWJ, Tipuric, Anscombe, North, Lydiate, Baker, King, Scott Williams, Cory Allen...

It was bound to be a tough day for Ospreys even with Itoje, Billy V and Farrell still rested.

Among these you will find my facial expression every time Aled Davies is even near the ball. He'll always do something that brings on that reaction.

Rotmi Segun has been impressive for Sarries this season. He's got serious pace but as you'd expect from the Sarries coaching set-up his all round game is strong as well.

king_carlos wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Ben Earl is a really classy player, and for all the hate shown his way by England fans so is Daly.

Goode and Williams both being injured long term will give Daly an opportunity to develop as a fullback outside the international spotlight. I rate Daly very highly, don't think he's a specialist number 23 as some argue, but have never thought his best position is fullback.

Away to Allianz missing AWJ, Tipuric, Anscombe, North, Lydiate, Baker, King, Scott Williams, Cory Allen...

It was bound to be a tough day for Ospreys even with Itoje, Billy V and Farrell still rested.

So teams are about evenly matched then, so it's no excuse. Plus they've been this way for a few seasons now. If you can't pass and catch then you shouldn't be wearing the jersey, simple.

From 25-8 up just 1 minute before ht, Benetton are now 25-32 down.

Brendan wrote:Connacht and Bennetton doing better than I expected
Hope Bennetton get the TBP win

Connacht squad has really come on in the last few years (still expect them to lose)

Looks like Benetton are losing massive momentum and falling apart a bit

Great work from Kpoku. He's going to be a fantastic signing for Saints. Lawes and Kpoku will be a great partnership.

Isiekwe was excellent at blindside. It will be interesting to see where his career goes. At full strength he's probably Sarries starting blindside but if he thinks his long term future lies at lock he may well move on.

His last contract was coming out of the academy anyway so he will be due a big wage increase that Sarries will struggle to meet. He's top of my wish list for Tigers to target.

Really like Isiekwe.

Harsh call against Benetton at the end allows Saints to sneak a win.

Bizarre game at Benetton. The final penalty call was probably OK but I thought I saw Saints pass forward twice before we got to that point. Benetton will regret not trying a drop goal just a minute earlier.

What happens is Saracens win the cup and get relegated?

Listened to the bbc commentary earlier and they mentioned that Jackson Wray had played in more than half of Saracens 100 european games, which is pretty incredible really. Theres a few more this year to come this year and hes still only 29.

Daly had a good day at full back although rarely tested by the sounds of it. Ospreys never really at the party missing most of their big names

Leinster with a narrow enough win away to Lyon and manage to concede an LBP in the last minute or two.

Scrappy enough.

Munster manage to claw back a try - down by 3 at half time to Racing.

11-14

Shocking ref in the Quin's game.

This seems quite impressive by Racing. It looks like Ospreys might have to play a team that's actually better than Munster and Saracens lol.

Racing putting them through the mincer.

14-21 in second half on 55 mins

What a dummy sold to the Ref, where is the TMO? Marler had Louw in a head lock f f s .

That's high !

A bit of Munster grit and grunt gets them another out wide. Need the conversion to tie it up. Hanrahan nails it with superb kick.

21-21.

Yet another simply stunning performance from Bath, what a signing making Hooper the headcoach!

Working out really well putting someone in that role with no previous experience.

All square at Thomond.   Good away result for Racing but in truth they should have taken all 5points.

Champions Cup Round 1 & 2 wins/draws/losses so far

English 7W 7L
French 5W 1D 6L
Irish 6W 1 D 1L
Scottish 1W 1L

Connaught smashed and Munster drew at home. The Irish ‘run’ has stalled dramatically.

Cyril wrote:Connaught smashed and Munster drew at home. The Irish ‘run’ has stalled dramatically.

Acutely observed, young Cyril.

Glad to see you getting into the nationalistic shenanigans. Knew it wouldn’t take long. . All-French opposition this week - makes a difference.

It’s Connacht Rugby btw. Thought they had a good game given their injury problems and it was Toulouse at home.

Exeter looking good.

Both Connaught and Connacht are correct, old Pot.

Excellent weekend so far for English sides.

Will be interesting to see how many British/Italian sides qualify for the top table once the SA sides join the club for the Pro(howevermany)

Gooseberry wrote:What happens is Saracens win the cup and get relegated?

Listened to the bbc commentary earlier and they mentioned that Jackson Wray had played in more than half of Saracens 100 european games, which is pretty incredible really. Theres a few more this year to come this year and hes still only 29.

Daly had a good day at full back although rarely tested by the sounds of it. Ospreys never really at the party missing most of their big names

All that holds Daly back from being the best FB in the world are the trivial positional tasks of fielding high balls and making last up tackles.  There does seem to be a number of opposition who don't want to demean him by drawing him into such lowly activities.

It's a shame there isn't another central playmaking type position he could play outside the halfbacks. One with less high ball and last ditch tackling stuff, where he could employ his arcing runs against outside defenders, and his passing & kicking game to release strike runners outside him. He'd probably have to play such a position for several years to be any good at it though.

As I walked out the house sales try was disallowed despite the conversion already taken. Has the rule changes on that? Cant find that it has on the wr website.

Cyril wrote:Both Connaught and Connacht are correct, old Pot.

Excellent weekend so far for English sides.

Will be interesting to see how many British/Italian sides qualify for the top table once the SA sides join the club for the Pro(howevermany)

No - they’re not both correct.  Connacht is how they spell the name of the club in English - Rugbaí Connachta in Irish. https://www.connachtrugby.ie/

Sale have put away La Rochelle quite handily.