What a waste of rugby talent

First topic message reminder :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50455162

No way back for Folau now.

LondonTiger wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:I remember the eye incident which happened at Cross Keys, but I don't remember much else about his playing days before then. I thought his pro career was done before that as he had been sent back to play in the prem.

Yeah he had bounced around, even being released in Italy iirc.

People are speaking of him as if it was some great potential lost, I just don't remember him making headlines back then... until he lost his eye.


On another note, was it the Honeybadger that popularised the term meat pie for when a try was scored, or was it already an aussie thing anyway?

mikey_dragon wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:I remember the eye incident which happened at Cross Keys, but I don't remember much else about his playing days before then. I thought his pro career was done before that as he had been sent back to play in the prem.

Yeah he had bounced around, even being released in Italy iirc.

People are speaking of him as if it was some great potential lost, I just don't remember him making headlines back then... until he lost his eye.


On another note, was it the Honeybadger that popularised the term meat pie for when a try was scored, or was it already an aussie thing anyway?

I suggested big Gavin because he clearly had the pedigree and the sheer size to be decent, but never materialised. I never saw enough of him to actually determine whether or not he was good! We are also struggling to find forwards to put into our 15, so kind of clutching at straws. 

Cummins is a good shout Cyril. I can imagine him and Henson getting into it though, considering both have graced the screen on 'The Bachelor'.

Cummins made the most of his career I thought. It's not as if he was a lost great, jut a fairly tidy, up and down winger. Won a decent number of caps for his talent.

I'd think Digby Ioane would be a more obvious candidate for a player who was electric, but retired/left Oz too early.

Henson would hardly go down as a lost great either though. Good player, but the myth surrounding him is out of proportion to his actual talents.

Na you're talking turds there. Would have been equal to BOD had he had the right attitude. No 12 has come close in the NH since. You could say only a few from the SH have as well.

So we agree that Tuilagi is a 13 then?

Na, Tuilagi's not fit to lace Henson's boots.

Keep it on topic.

Ha ha, Tuilagi is the best NH midfielder after BOD this millennium. Henson, like his muppet makers namesake, doesn’t need a mask. The ‘joke’ of Welsh rugby. Look at me folks, I’m a star...watch me go. Between he, joc and cips on trains, planes and buses they fully qualify for the team of waste, just not sure about the talent. Henson the muppet, apt.

...said the keyboard warrior.

Jack Nicholson said it first actually...'Truth?, you can't handle the truth!'

...said the truther conspiracy theorist keyboard warrior.

Stick to rugby please. You have pushed that agenda for weeks. Now you get someone talking rugby, you throw your toys like a little boy cos you dont like other peoples comments.

Further up...'You're talking turds'

Really?

Reported.

Cyril wrote:Delon Armitage is another that probably could have been a very, very fine international had his attitude been a little (a lot) better. He had the skills to be a complete full back at the highest level.

Agreed. One of our best players in an otherwise poor-performing England side at the 2011 World Cup. We could have used his skills and versatility in the next cycle.

Taylorman wrote:Stick to rugby please. You have pushed that agenda for weeks. Now you get someone talking rugby, you throw your toys like a little boy cos you dont like other peoples comments.

Further up...'You're talking turds'

Really?

Reported.

Dunnon cuz. Whatever gets you to realise you're a middle aged keyboard warrior with a really unhealthy, hemisphericl chip in their shoulder who works in IT, calling a professional rugby player a 'muppet'. You have to be seriously deluded about your own worth and situation to get off on that.

If that's the best 'talking rugby' you've got you should go back to Mumsnet where you're clearly more comfortable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50568029

Israel Folau raises compensation bid over Rugby Australia sacking

Rugby player Israel Folau has upped his demands for compensation from Rugby Australia to A$14m (£7.4m; $9.5m), following his high-profile sacking.
The former Wallabies star is suing after being fired in May for making anti-gay remarks on social media.
Folau, a Christian, argues that the termination of his contract is a case of religious discrimination.
In raising his compensation claim, Folau asserted that he could have become captain of the national side.

Matthew 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Whoever gets made captain of the Aus national side should be the one demanding compensation

Soul Requiem wrote:I would suggest Cipriani but I too would choose Kelly Brook over taking my rugby career seriously.

Two good reason to pick Kelly (.)(.)

He is entitled to his opinions, just not sure they are worth millions of $$

So ARU and Folau settle there case with a joint statement.

No mention of any compensation, though that does not mean there was not any paid, the statement is very neutral and does not imply any fault on either sides behalf.

I think they have both taken the sensible option of backing out of a very long, damaging and expensive legal case for all parties.

There is no suggestion either that IF will resume his ruby career in Australia.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50653762

Report from the Beeb

Would love to know what he did with the $2M raised for him to cover the court case. I'm sure there are some wildfire care packages set up to help the thousands of people whose homes have been destroyed - they could do with some money and would help restore some of his public image given the comments he made about them. 

There must have been a money settlement in this, which I'm sure wasn't handed over willingly from the ARU.

I doubt there was very much money. Australia rugby probably choose to be pragmatic so whatever they have him, would hsve been less than what they thought their legal fees might be!

The statement was so neutral, it does suggest that both sides wanted out of it without lossing any face.

It would be a massive come down from Folau then given he was demanding $14M!

RDW wrote:Would love to know what he did with the $2M raised for him to cover the court case. I'm sure there are some wildfire care packages set up to help the thousands of people whose homes have been destroyed - they could do with some money and would help restore some of his public image given the comments he made about them. 

There must have been a money settlement in this, which I'm sure wasn't handed over willingly from the ARU.

Maybe his 'crime' is far less serious than a bunch of people who might have purposefully lit some fires for political 'environmental soldier' reasons?  Now that would be a crime and a half, wouldn't it.  

Given the induced paranoia  globally about climate change in the media, in politics, ingrained in the theme of every damn program on TV (whether it be cookery, fashion, drama or natural history) in schools etc etc.  A Global pandemic of Fear that needs constant 'oxygen' to stay alive; -given the truth that everyone acknowledges is saturation coverage of the topic, it's surprising then how many professional journalists refuse to even ponder the possibility that fires in California, South America and Austalia might potentially be orchestrated to keep 'oxygen' on the topic.

Yep..... how much should conscious firestarters contribute to wildfire care packages, I wonder?

Ooft we're really getting into tinfoil hat territory here! Folau's comments about the wildfires caused a lot of pain and outrage in Australia. My comment about him donating to their cause was a bit of an offhand comment.

But to suggest people are deliberately starting fires to push a climate change agenda...I don't think a rugby forum is the place for that type of debate!

SecretFly,

We said you needed to have a brazilian, not become one

RDW wrote:Ooft we're really getting into tinfoil hat territory here! Folau's comments about the wildfires caused a lot of pain and outrage in Australia. My comment about him donating to their cause was a bit of an offhand comment.

But to suggest people are deliberately starting fires to push a climate change agenda...I don't think a rugby forum is the place for that type of debate!

I'm not debating. I'm saying it's a real and present possibility and that journallists should go back to being journalists...as in investigating the duck under the water as much as they give free publicity to the glide of the duck above the water.
I simply don't believe all the fires are natural ones. Simples. Therefore I obviously have to believe much more serious 'crimes' are being perpetuated than the one that keeps Folau in the limelight as arch villain.

LondonTiger wrote:SecretFly,

We said you needed to have a brazilian, not become one

Me?  Becoming a Brazilian?  And sharing a World Cup Football stand with a herd of lovely Brazilian ladies??????

Heaven!!!!!!

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:SecretFly,

We said you needed to have a brazilian, not become one

Me?  Becoming a Brazilian?  And sharing a World Cup Football stand with a herd of lovely Brazilian ladies??????

Heaven!!!!!!

are you man enough? Or is SecretFly on the Ipanema reminiscent of Borat in a mankini

LondonTiger wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:SecretFly,

We said you needed to have a brazilian, not become one

Me?  Becoming a Brazilian?  And sharing a World Cup Football stand with a herd of lovely Brazilian ladies??????

Heaven!!!!!!

are you man enough? Or is SecretFly on the Ipanema reminiscent of Borat in a mankini

Don't be a fool, Tiger. These are Brazilian women we're talking about! You insult their power, sir!
They could rise a dead gay man from the grave with just a wink. I'm on safe ground. No effort required. Just stand there ....and be eaten alive by their soft zones!

Am I being a trifle sexist?

Hmmm, I don't care. I'm a man and it's time we championed our Sexist Rights!

SecretFly wrote:

RDW wrote:Ooft we're really getting into tinfoil hat territory here! Folau's comments about the wildfires caused a lot of pain and outrage in Australia. My comment about him donating to their cause was a bit of an offhand comment.

But to suggest people are deliberately starting fires to push a climate change agenda...I don't think a rugby forum is the place for that type of debate!

I'm not debating.  I'm saying it's a real and present possibility and that journallists should go back to being journalists...as in investigating the duck under the water as much as they give free publicity to the glide of the duck above the water.
I simply don't believe all the fires are natural ones.  Simples.  Therefore I obviously have to believe much more serious 'crimes' are being perpetuated than the one that keeps Folau in the limelight as arch villain.

That is a fact - people have been charged with setting some of them off.

There is a mega jump to make however to claim that this is part of a global conspiracy on climate change, as opposed to 16 year olds being idiots (which one of the people charge was).

RDW wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

RDW wrote:Ooft we're really getting into tinfoil hat territory here! Folau's comments about the wildfires caused a lot of pain and outrage in Australia. My comment about him donating to their cause was a bit of an offhand comment.

But to suggest people are deliberately starting fires to push a climate change agenda...I don't think a rugby forum is the place for that type of debate!

I'm not debating.  I'm saying it's a real and present possibility and that journallists should go back to being journalists...as in investigating the duck under the water as much as they give free publicity to the glide of the duck above the water.
I simply don't believe all the fires are natural ones.  Simples.  Therefore I obviously have to believe much more serious 'crimes' are being perpetuated than the one that keeps Folau in the limelight as arch villain.

That is a fact - people have been charged with setting some of them off.

There is a mega jump to make however to claim that this is part of a global conspiracy on climate change, as opposed to 16 year olds being idiots (which one of the people charge was).

You think it a mega jump if you wish to, RDW.  I think it a series of easy logical steps.
Climate change is a massive Global issue.  It has massive, powerful invested interests either perpetuating it as truth or indeed denying it as bunk.  It has a massive global machine giving it a platform...again, positive or negative.  Billions if not Trillions invested in the message and in methodologies, industries, sciences and future concepts meant to supposedly lessen the impact.  People have money, reputations and political systems invested in it.  It feeds easily into all other Global topics, like Global Governance, wars, refugees, migrations of peoples, new technologies, new methods of farming etc, etc, etc, etc.

To say there is not sufficient cause even in cold monetary terms either at Government level, corporate level or even the urges of small 'environmentalist groups to be in a position to 'prove' their concerns is to me a bit of burying one's head in the sand.  But still...you're still free to think such thoughts a massive jump in logical steps.

But back to Folau...

Australia apologise to Israel Folau and settlement reached.

So who was wrong ?

LordDowlais wrote:Australia apologise to Israel Folau and settlement reached.

So who was wrong ?

Time to move on, seems to be the hidden meaning of it all.

So two things seem to emerge.

When will Folau be invited back into the Australian Rugby Team?

Will Folau defer from blunt public pronouncements on his religious beliefs in the future?

First one is an 'I don't know', from me.  But I'll bet there'll be talks to plan a suitable strategic time.

Second one, going on his personality and the power of his beliefs and his understanding that he needs to be a public witness to his religious beliefs..... I'd say No, he won't hold his tongue into the future.

So there will be a next instalment in the saga I think. And it may begin when the first boos come from the crowds that 'welcome' him back to an Australian shirt.

What he needs is an openly gay teammate in the Oz team. Yeah, that would be the perfect next installment to the saga. Because surely the gay teammate would have cause for grievance for his sexuality not being respected? Who would be 'right' and have the right to freedom of expression then? Both of them?!

Crazy times we live in.

I can't see Israel ever playing rugby union again for Australia - he is a man of principles (principles that most of us may not agree with) and he will see that he has been stabbed in the back by Rugby Australia. I think a return to rugby league is much more likely, where the customer is slightly less PC than the average rugby union fan.

Not really crazy times oracle, one person is saying I want to live my life the other one wishing harm on them. Crazy would be how things have been until quite recently when wishing and at time actively engaging in causing harm to others was seen as ok and just getting on living your life against the law.
Theres not that much of a moral fog when it comes to freedom of expression when you stop thinking of it as making what you say ok and consequence free.
If your using it to defend and protect people from harm that's good, if you're using it to cause harm and promote violence then it's probably not.
And if your Miaow then well youre probably best off just not having an internet or you might end up arguing with yourself on a thread about Wales world cup 2 months after it ended.

Just to be clear the settlement was a no fault ending to the legal drama. He got an undisclosed payout to save them the time and cost of going through the courts . Fallout gets his money now rather than in decades after protracted legal wrangling. ARU still asserts its rights to discipline its employees on matters like this, theres no green light for everyone to start talking about bumboys and picaninnies.

Theres also zero chance they will take him back. Theres a chance he could get a league contract but those clubs will be concerned about impact on sponsors etc and having seen him sting ARU for what will have been a sizeable wedge they'd surely think twice. From what I understand the league sides arent anywhere near as short of talent as the union ones either, he may be a superstar in union but wouldnt be one of those players that a league side would see as a must have.

Honestly hes best off just investing his money wisely in the church and getting on with his hate filled life without having to shower with other men every saturday.

I didn't mean crazy times from the point of view of people being openly gay, if that's what you're implying Gooseberry? I meant crazy times if/when we have to try to accommodate all rights to freedom of expression, even extreme ones. It would be crazy if we have to accommodate extremist views for fear of offending the extremists, but I can see it happening. A bit like the calls for the banning of Christmas-related events and activities for fear of offending other religions groups, when on the other hand we need to embrace and recognise other religious festivals so that we do not discriminate (and rightly so).

Right sorry misunderstood a bit Oracle.
This isn't saying that Isreal had a right to express what he did without consequence, just that it wasnt worth ARUs time and money to go through the courts defending their decision. They have not admitted any wrong on their part.

Gooseberry wrote:Not really crazy times oracle, one person is saying I want to live my life the other one wishing harm on them. Crazy would be how things have been until quite recently when wishing and at time actively engaging in causing harm to others was seen as ok and just getting on living your life against the law.
Theres not that much of a moral fog when it comes to freedom of expression when you stop thinking of it as making what you say ok and consequence free.
If your using it to defend and protect people from harm that's good, if you're using it to cause harm and promote violence then it's probably not.
And if your Miaow then well youre probably best off just not having an internet or you might end up arguing with yourself on a thread about Wales world cup 2 months after it ended.

Just to be clear the settlement was a no fault ending to the legal drama. He got an undisclosed payout to save them the time and cost of going through the courts . Fallout gets his money now rather than in decades after protracted legal wrangling. ARU still asserts its rights to discipline its employees on matters like this, theres no green light for everyone to start talking about bumboys and picaninnies.

Theres also zero chance they will take him back.  Theres a chance he could get a league contract but those clubs will be concerned about impact on sponsors etc and having seen him sting ARU for what will have been a sizeable wedge they'd surely think twice. From what I understand the league sides arent anywhere near as short of talent as the union ones either, he may be a superstar in union but wouldnt be one of those players that a league side would see as a must have.

Honestly hes best off just investing his money wisely in the church and getting on with his hate filled life without having to shower with other men every saturday.

So what was the apology for then ?

Folau apologised for any upset his statements caused.

ARU apologised for the hurt feelings of the Folau family and (according ro Sydney Morning Herald) paid under A$300k to Folau.

Folau is very unlikely to play either code in Australia again.

I think both sides saw this going nowhere and were happy to wrap it up with the minimal amount of cost.

Folau won't play rugby union for Australia again and will struggle for a foothold in any professional sport.

In years to come, he may or may not reflect on that!

SecretFly wrote:

RDW wrote:Ooft we're really getting into tinfoil hat territory here! Folau's comments about the wildfires caused a lot of pain and outrage in Australia. My comment about him donating to their cause was a bit of an offhand comment.

But to suggest people are deliberately starting fires to push a climate change agenda...I don't think a rugby forum is the place for that type of debate!

I'm not debating.  I'm saying it's a real and present possibility and that journallists should go back to being journalists...as in investigating the duck under the water as much as they give free publicity to the glide of the duck above the water.
I simply don't believe all the fires are natural ones.  Simples.  Therefore I obviously have to believe much more serious 'crimes' are being perpetuated than the one that keeps Folau in the limelight as arch villain.

You can blame another Australian for that - and no, it's not Cheika.

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:SecretFly,

We said you needed to have a brazilian, not become one

Me?  Becoming a Brazilian?  And sharing a World Cup Football stand with a herd of lovely Brazilian ladies??????

Heaven!!!!!!

are you man enough? Or is SecretFly on the Ipanema reminiscent of Borat in a mankini

Don't be a fool, Tiger.  These are Brazilian women we're talking about!  You insult their power, sir!
They could rise a dead gay man from the grave with just a wink.  I'm on safe ground.  No effort required.  Just stand there ....and be eaten alive by their soft zones!

Those aren't ladies, man...

The Oracle wrote:What he needs is an openly gay teammate in the Oz team.  Yeah, that would be the perfect next installment to the saga.  Because surely the gay teammate would have cause for grievance for his sexuality not being respected?  Who would be 'right' and have the right to freedom of expression then?  Both of them?!  

Crazy times we live in.

Sounds like an episode of Neighbours.

According to stuff.co.nz Folau got eight million aussie dollars

Old Man wrote:According to stuff.co.nz Folau got eight million aussie dollars

I hope it gets burnt to ash in a God-induced forest fire

If that is the case then surely RA must be just about bankrupt!

Isn't 8m AUD about, what, £50k...