Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

https://officiating.worldrugby.org/?module=3&section=36&subsection=129&language=en

"It is not mandatory for the team receiving the challenge to face it."

How many effing times. If they don't face it up silently and respectfully they get massive media criticism.

No they don't!

This is getting crazy!

[pedro]

It's democracy baby. A game of give and take.

Politically appointed judges in nothing new in the US. Doesn't make it right though. Maybe their supreme court should take a look at it?

[dynamark]

So are we saying that the youngster was seen in 4 hours and kept in for one night before being discharged (back to the care of his GP as they always say).Seems a reasonable outcome.Paremts are always very emotional understandably with babies,unborn children and youngsters.As they get a bit older you realise they are very durable.

[super_realist]

So are we saying that the youngster was seen in 4 hours and kept in for one night before being discharged (back to the care of his GP as they always say).Seems a reasonable outcome.Paremts are always very emotional understandably with babies,unborn children and youngsters.As they get a bit older you realise they are very durable.

Sounds like the general story. Not really sure what their complaint was. Everyone waits, so did they. Big deal.

[McLaren]

You said the other day that you weren't a lefty, so if you're not a lefty, then I'm not right wing.

What sort of crazy logic is this?

You are not X therefore I am not Y.


By most common definitions you are quite a bit right of centre.

[McLaren]

super,
It would probably be fair to say there's not that many hard-right in the US (not %age-wise anyway), but the soft right is enabling the hard right just to get what they want - Supreme Court, tax-cuts which will be paid for by reducing social "entitlements", Republican judges who will stay in place for generations, relaxation of regulatory controls (especially environmental), racial profiling in elections, gerrymandering, etc, etc.

Kwini

Isn't part of the problem in the US that the massive amount of committed religious voters who vote republican for abortion, marriage and other social issues regardless of what else the republicans stand for?

[superflyweight]

So are we saying that the youngster was seen in 4 hours and kept in for one night before being discharged (back to the care of his GP as they always say).Seems a reasonable outcome.Paremts are always very emotional understandably with babies,unborn children and youngsters.As they get a bit older you realise they are very durable.

Sounds like the general story. Not really sure what their complaint was. Everyone waits, so did they. Big deal.

Your general lack of empathy is incredible.  Did mummy and daddy never hug you as a child?

Just because something has happened before to other people doesn't mean that it should be accepted and that the people involved can't be upset or distressed by the situation and demand better.  Not everyone (a) pretends to be hyper-logical to the point of stupidity in order to argue with people on the internet; and/or (b) has a borderline psychopathic lack of empathy.

If either of my daughters had been placed in that situation when they were feeling that unwell and had suspected pneumonia I'd have been pinning hospital administrators to the wall until they got a bed for them.

[JAS]

So are we saying that the youngster was seen in 4 hours and kept in for one night before being discharged (back to the care of his GP as they always say).Seems a reasonable outcome.Paremts are always very emotional understandably with babies,unborn children and youngsters.As they get a bit older you realise they are very durable.

No, fake news is saying that. How repugnant must a human being be to take a situation like that and try to spin that it didn’t really happen so as to fit in with their narrative. There is actually a case in these crazy times for coming up with a crime of “wilfully spreading fake news”

Not only was the counter to the original story fake. It was spun by a woman contacted by an “old school friend” who she couldn’t remember. If journalists were doing their job properly they should be able to get to the root of the counterspin.

Meanwhile, my youngest grandchild, almost but not quite walking had a full on face plant with the floor last night and my daughter struggled to stop the nosebleed. Up to A&E she went...for 7 and a half hours. Now nobody will probably bat an eyelid at that, ridiculous A&E waiting times have become normalised.

[super_realist]

You said the other day that you weren't a lefty, so if you're not a lefty, then I'm not right wing.

What sort of crazy logic is this?

Jesus Mac, you don't get it do you? Most of what  Beninho says is from a left wing perspective, most of what I say could be construed as being right of centre. However if he doesn't see himself as left wing, why should I see myself as right wing?

I'm not party political. I've never voted for a right wing party. I hold views from both sides as I'm sure most people do, although you'd never admit to that.

[McLaren]

See yourself however you want but if you want to hold an accurate view of yourself you might as well accept you are right of centre.

But how come you are reluctant to admit your political leanings to yourself?


And for the record, Ben is clearly left.

[super_realist]

Your perception based on what I post here might paint me as right of centre. I just told you I've never voted for a right of centre party.

Don't try to talk to me about admitting something to myself when you can't even admit to what your bloody handicap is or what you do for a living.

[McLaren]

If you don't really hold right wing views then why spend all day posting as if you do?

[super_realist]

If you don't really hold right wing views then why spend all day posting as if you do?

I already said I hold some views which are right of centre, as most people do. Doesn't necessarily make me a right winger.

[McLaren]

Super

You are obviously not far right but describing you as right wing would be pretty accurate. I can't think of a more accurate description of you based on what you post here. You are certainly too right to be considered centrist.

[super_realist]

I don't really care how you label me Mac, but if you're going to be accurate then labelling someone "right wing" has certain connotations, especially coming from someone like you who tends to see everything in black and white (no pun intended). If you simply have to put me in a pigeonhole then right of centre is probably more apt.
As I said earlier, I wouldn't object to a left of centre Labour government but they'd need to get rid of Momentum and the Corbyn lickspittles first.

[dynamark]

Superfly not sure if you were aiming at myself or SR(or both)but I do understand the anxieties of being parent of a young child mine are in their 20s and you still have those moments.
Not sure being aggressive with hospital staff would be well received though might make them think do they really want the aggravation of the job.
Maybe the Gp had sent them or maybe they just pitched but I would be interested to find out the genuine outcome of the visit to the Ozzy.
All over in 40 odd hours and lets hope we can than move on.Corbyn resigns.SNP can have as many referendums as they want providing they step away from Westminster.Cant help thinking the like of Tom Watson would have been a better leader for Labour but Corbyn energised the left and the young

[super_realist]

So are we saying that the youngster was seen in 4 hours and kept in for one night before being discharged (back to the care of his GP as they always say).Seems a reasonable outcome.Paremts are always very emotional understandably with babies,unborn children and youngsters.As they get a bit older you realise they are very durable.

Sounds like the general story. Not really sure what their complaint was. Everyone waits, so did they. Big deal.

Your general lack of empathy is incredible.  Did mummy and daddy never hug you as a child?

Just because something has happened before to other people doesn't mean that it should be accepted and that the people involved can't be upset or distressed by the situation and demand better.  Not everyone (a) pretends to be hyper-logical to the point of stupidity in order to argue with people on the internet; and/or (b) has a borderline psychopathic lack of empathy.

If either of my daughters had been placed in that situation when they were feeling that unwell and had suspected pneumonia I'd have been pinning hospital administrators to the wall until they got a bed for them.

That would make you an over-emotional, unreasonable oaf. What gives you the right to try and use violence to put your child in front of people who are more ill and who require the care more urgently? If there are no beds, there are no beds. Being the big hard man in A&E isn't going to help and won't get you seen quicker.

Everyone knows that parents would want to do whatever they can for their children's welfare, but that shouldn't usurp those who are more in need. This kid had a bed, but someone with greater need came along. Would you rather that  more needy child suffered and potentially die because someone happened to get to the hospital after you and your child?

The NHS A&E is built on a system of triage. There is no automatic right, nor should there be an expectation that you should be seen on demand.
If that seems to lack empathy, hard cheese, that's how the system has worked since day 1. We've all been to hospital, and we've all had to wait. Suck it up.

[superflyweight]

So are we saying that the youngster was seen in 4 hours and kept in for one night before being discharged (back to the care of his GP as they always say).Seems a reasonable outcome.Paremts are always very emotional understandably with babies,unborn children and youngsters.As they get a bit older you realise they are very durable.

Sounds like the general story. Not really sure what their complaint was. Everyone waits, so did they. Big deal.

Your general lack of empathy is incredible.  Did mummy and daddy never hug you as a child?

Just because something has happened before to other people doesn't mean that it should be accepted and that the people involved can't be upset or distressed by the situation and demand better.  Not everyone (a) pretends to be hyper-logical to the point of stupidity in order to argue with people on the internet; and/or (b) has a borderline psychopathic lack of empathy.

If either of my daughters had been placed in that situation when they were feeling that unwell and had suspected pneumonia I'd have been pinning hospital administrators to the wall until they got a bed for them.

That would make you an over-emotional, unreasonable oaf. What gives you the right to try and use violence to put your child in front of people who are more ill and who require the care more urgently? If there are no beds, there are no beds. Being the big hard man in A&E isn't going to help and won't get you seen quicker.

Everyone knows that parents would want to do whatever they can for their children's welfare, but that shouldn't usurp those who are more in need. This kid had a bed, but someone with greater need came along. Would you rather that  more needy child suffered and potentially die because someone happened to get to the hospital after you and your child?

The NHS A&E is built on a system of triage. There is no automatic right, nor should there be an expectation that you should be seen on demand.
If that seems to lack empathy, hard cheese, that's how the system has worked since day 1. We've all been to hospital, and we've all had to wait. Suck it up.

Three points in response:

(a) I was talking figuratively (I know you struggle with the concept and tend to take everything literally);

(b) you have no point of context because you can't possibly relate to the level of emotion involved when the need to protect your child kicks in.  That may sound like emotional nonsense to you but as I said, you have no point of context; and

(c) when hospitals say that there are no beds available, that doesn't mean that there every bed is literally full, it means that they're simply unable to arrange a transfer of the relevant person into a vacant bed.  It could be for a number of reasons but it could be because someone is on their tea-break or because someone has phoned in sick and the administrators have neglected to arrange cover.  In the circumstances faced by that 4 year old and his parents, I'd be looking for an answer as to why there are no beds and I would be looking for them to provide a solution.  It's not selfish, it's human nature and I would expect any parents to do the same.

P.S. dyna my original comments were not aimed at you.

[kwinigolfer]

super,
It would probably be fair to say there's not that many hard-right in the US (not %age-wise anyway), but the soft right is enabling the hard right just to get what they want - Supreme Court, tax-cuts which will be paid for by reducing social "entitlements", Republican judges who will stay in place for generations, relaxation of regulatory controls (especially environmental), racial profiling in elections, gerrymandering, etc, etc.

Kwini

Isn't part of the problem in the US that the massive amount of committed religious voters who vote republican for abortion, marriage and other social issues regardless of what else the republicans stand for?

Mac,
It's still only a comparitively small minority, just that it's a hard right rallying point, same as "regulation" and "taxes", but the proponents have garnered a disproportionately yuuuge amount of power.

Drumpf propounds that sort of garbage but he certainly doesn't live it and has never advocated for religious right nonsense until he realised it would get him votes. That goes for republicans pretty much thru'out the whole country as it happens.

[dynamark]

Flu and Tonsilitis for the lad apparently so not nice but mum thanked the service with her obvious reservations.
On the pic he is definitely lying next to a trolley but thats the only view we have.Alls well in the end though it seems.

[super_realist]

So are we saying that the youngster was seen in 4 hours and kept in for one night before being discharged (back to the care of his GP as they always say).Seems a reasonable outcome.Paremts are always very emotional understandably with babies,unborn children and youngsters.As they get a bit older you realise they are very durable.

Sounds like the general story. Not really sure what their complaint was. Everyone waits, so did they. Big deal.

Your general lack of empathy is incredible.  Did mummy and daddy never hug you as a child?

Just because something has happened before to other people doesn't mean that it should be accepted and that the people involved can't be upset or distressed by the situation and demand better.  Not everyone (a) pretends to be hyper-logical to the point of stupidity in order to argue with people on the internet; and/or (b) has a borderline psychopathic lack of empathy.

If either of my daughters had been placed in that situation when they were feeling that unwell and had suspected pneumonia I'd have been pinning hospital administrators to the wall until they got a bed for them.

That would make you an over-emotional, unreasonable oaf. What gives you the right to try and use violence to put your child in front of people who are more ill and who require the care more urgently? If there are no beds, there are no beds. Being the big hard man in A&E isn't going to help and won't get you seen quicker.

Everyone knows that parents would want to do whatever they can for their children's welfare, but that shouldn't usurp those who are more in need. This kid had a bed, but someone with greater need came along. Would you rather that  more needy child suffered and potentially die because someone happened to get to the hospital after you and your child?

The NHS A&E is built on a system of triage. There is no automatic right, nor should there be an expectation that you should be seen on demand.
If that seems to lack empathy, hard cheese, that's how the system has worked since day 1. We've all been to hospital, and we've all had to wait. Suck it up.

Three points in response:

(a) I was talking figuratively (I know you struggle with the concept and tend to take everything literally);

(b) you have no point of context because you can't possibly relate to the level of emotion involved when the need to protect your child kicks in.  That may sound like emotional nonsense to you but as I said, you have no point of context; and

(c) when hospitals say that there are no beds available, that doesn't mean that there every bed is literally full, it means that they're simply unable to arrange a transfer of the relevant person into a vacant bed.  It could be for a number of reasons but it could be because someone is on their tea-break or because someone has phoned in sick and the administrators have neglected to arrange cover.  In the circumstances faced by that 4 year old and his parents, I'd be looking for an answer as to why there are no beds and I would be looking for them to provide a solution.  It's not selfish, it's human nature and I would expect any parents to do the same.

P.S. dyna my original comments were not aimed at you.

It still makes you an unreasonable oaf who thinks that their needs trump those of others. If the triage staff have deemed you are fine to wait, then bloody well do so, take a seat and wait your turn just like every other polite, courteous, civilised and decent person would do.  

If you don't like that, contact your MP and don't "figuratively" attack the staff. You're not a doctor or a nurse, so don't tell them how to do their jobs, they don't tell you how to do yours. If your child is deemed fine to wait, you have to act like a parent and accept that rather than acting like an hysterical idiot as if your child is more important and more worthy of treatment than others.

I've waited in hospital before for several hours. It's not pleasant, but it's how A&E operates. If someone comes in having chopped their hand off in an industrial accident, that trumps by dislocated shoulder or whatever. What makes your case so special?

[beninho]

Outrage, at someone for something he hasn't done....classic realist.

[super_realist]

Outrage, at someone for something he hasn't done....classic realist.

Where's the outrage? I'm simply calling him unreasonable. The system works because people accept the system. It would be chaos if they thought procedure didn't apply to them and they could force their way to the front.

[superflyweight]

So are we saying that the youngster was seen in 4 hours and kept in for one night before being discharged (back to the care of his GP as they always say).Seems a reasonable outcome.Paremts are always very emotional understandably with babies,unborn children and youngsters.As they get a bit older you realise they are very durable.

Sounds like the general story. Not really sure what their complaint was. Everyone waits, so did they. Big deal.

Your general lack of empathy is incredible.  Did mummy and daddy never hug you as a child?

Just because something has happened before to other people doesn't mean that it should be accepted and that the people involved can't be upset or distressed by the situation and demand better.  Not everyone (a) pretends to be hyper-logical to the point of stupidity in order to argue with people on the internet; and/or (b) has a borderline psychopathic lack of empathy.

If either of my daughters had been placed in that situation when they were feeling that unwell and had suspected pneumonia I'd have been pinning hospital administrators to the wall until they got a bed for them.

That would make you an over-emotional, unreasonable oaf. What gives you the right to try and use violence to put your child in front of people who are more ill and who require the care more urgently? If there are no beds, there are no beds. Being the big hard man in A&E isn't going to help and won't get you seen quicker.

Everyone knows that parents would want to do whatever they can for their children's welfare, but that shouldn't usurp those who are more in need. This kid had a bed, but someone with greater need came along. Would you rather that  more needy child suffered and potentially die because someone happened to get to the hospital after you and your child?

The NHS A&E is built on a system of triage. There is no automatic right, nor should there be an expectation that you should be seen on demand.
If that seems to lack empathy, hard cheese, that's how the system has worked since day 1. We've all been to hospital, and we've all had to wait. Suck it up.

Three points in response:

(a) I was talking figuratively (I know you struggle with the concept and tend to take everything literally);

(b) you have no point of context because you can't possibly relate to the level of emotion involved when the need to protect your child kicks in.  That may sound like emotional nonsense to you but as I said, you have no point of context; and

(c) when hospitals say that there are no beds available, that doesn't mean that there every bed is literally full, it means that they're simply unable to arrange a transfer of the relevant person into a vacant bed.  It could be for a number of reasons but it could be because someone is on their tea-break or because someone has phoned in sick and the administrators have neglected to arrange cover.  In the circumstances faced by that 4 year old and his parents, I'd be looking for an answer as to why there are no beds and I would be looking for them to provide a solution.  It's not selfish, it's human nature and I would expect any parents to do the same.

P.S. dyna my original comments were not aimed at you.

It still makes you an unreasonable oaf who thinks that their needs trump those of others. If the triage staff have deemed you are fine to wait, then bloody well do so, take a seat and wait your turn just like every other polite, courteous, civilised and decent person would do.  

If you don't like that, contact your MP and don't "figuratively" attack the staff. You're not a doctor or a nurse, so don't tell them how to do their jobs, they don't tell you how to do yours. If your child is deemed fine to wait, you have to act like a parent and accept that rather than acting like an hysterical idiot as if your child is more important and more worthy of treatment than others.

I've waited in hospital before for several hours. It's not pleasant, but it's how A&E operates. If someone comes in having chopped their hand off in an industrial accident, that trumps by dislocated shoulder or whatever. What makes your case so special?

Oaf? What do you think this is, a Dickens novel?

[super_realist]

Oaf is a great word.

[navyblueshorts]

Oaf is a great word.

Actually, agree with this. I shall look to use it henceforth.

[Roller_Coaster]

Oaf is a great word.

Actually, agree with this. I shall look to use it henceforth.

You would, you sycophantic oaf (JOKE!)

[navyblueshorts]

Oaf is a great word.

Actually, agree with this. I shall look to use it henceforth.

You would, you sycophantic oaf (JOKE!)

You varlet! Prithee choose thy weapons. We shall meet in the morn....

[dynamark]

Anyway by this time tomorrow hopefully Corbyn Abbott and MacD will have resigned.
I wondered about the weather today and any impact it may have rained all day here and of course the media cannot say a word about the election until 10pm.
Always surprised you do not need ID to cast a vote just pitch up with your name and address and find out someone else has had your vote!

[dynamark]

Pistols at dawn(providing its not raining)anyone need a second

[westisbest]

Anyway by this time tomorrow hopefully Corbyn Abbott and MacD will have resigned.
I wondered about the weather today and any impact it may have rained all day here and of course the media cannot say a word about the election until 10pm.
Always surprised you do not need ID to cast a vote just pitch up with your name and address and find out someone else has had your vote!

My wife said exactly the same thing today dyna re ID to vote.

[Be_the_ball]

Oaf is a great word.

Actually, agree with this. I shall look to use it henceforth.

You would, you sycophantic oaf (JOKE!)

You varlet! Prithee choose thy weapons. We shall meet in the morn....

I used to work with a fella from Yorkshire, and when he rang home all the Yorkshireism's would come out, classic. "I tell thee!". It wer like an episode of Emerdale Farm. Brilliant

I hope things are going well Dougie!

[dynamark]

Back to golf ever so slightly I got an invite to play a members invite at Wakefield golf club and the first thing you notice is that ladies were not allowed in the front door they had their own entrance at te back plain wooden door.Anyway all the gents in there were typical Yorkshire all exactly the same moaning and groaning 'this beers got no ed on it'.Nice guys but stereotypical.

[beninho]

Lets get brexit done and see what happens
Corbyn will go
Scotland need a second referendum.

[ralphjohn69]

Lets get brexit done and see what happens
Corbyn will go
Scotland need a second referendum.

No we don't. We need anything but a 2nd referendum.

[super_realist]

Lets get brexit done and see what happens
Corbyn will go
Scotland need a second referendum.

Why? More people voted to both leave the EU and remain in the Union in Scotland than have ever voted for the SNP in a general election.

If Diggers hasn't already hung himself, he has now.

[super_realist]

Anyway by this time tomorrow hopefully Corbyn Abbott and MacD will have resigned.
I wondered about the weather today and any impact it may have rained all day here and of course the media cannot say a word about the election until 10pm.
Always surprised you do not need ID to cast a vote just pitch up with your name and address and find out someone else has had your vote!

Corbyn claiming he might stay on for a bit. What's the point? Labour clearly need to move away from their teenage politics and Momentum mob and get back to the Labour heartland. Their ineptitude had put Boris in for the next 5 years, not anything to do with the Tories really. Cameron had the good grace to resign upon failing, why won't Corbyn and his pathetic minions?

It was also funny to see "our next Prime Minister" Jo Swinson lose her seat.

[Roller_Coaster]

Oaf is a great word.

Actually, agree with this. I shall look to use it henceforth.

You would, you sycophantic oaf (JOKE!)

You varlet! Prithee choose thy weapons. We shall meet in the morn....

[JAS]

Anyway by this time tomorrow hopefully Corbyn Abbott and MacD will have resigned.
I wondered about the weather today and any impact it may have rained all day here and of course the media cannot say a word about the election until 10pm.
Always surprised you do not need ID to cast a vote just pitch up with your name and address and find out someone else has had your vote!

Corbyn claiming he might stay on for a bit. What's the point? Labour clearly need to move away from their teenage politics and Momentum mob and get back to the Labour heartland. Their ineptitude had put Boris in for the next 5 years, not anything to do with the Tories really. Cameron had the good grace to resign upon failing, why won't Corbyn and his pathetic minions?

It was also funny to see "our next Prime Minister" Jo Swinson lose her seat.

Yep, there simply has to be an acceptance that England is not and never will be a socialist country, what the hell happened in 1945 when Attlee got elected? was there a war or something beforehand that befuddled people? Regardless of what spirit of society there was then, it clearly doesn’t exist now.

Grab yourselves a seat and a big bucket of popcorn because there’s gonna be a fight and the fight for the soul of the Labour Party is going to be big and it’s going to be ugly.

There is a big problem that lies at the heart of the U.K. That is that Scotland leans further to the left than England would ever be prepared to. Moreover, the Jocks object quite strongly to being subjected to stuff the fundamentally disagree with. The chameleons of SNP know that and have positioned themselves just left of center left and that completely eclipses Labour in Scotland.

The one saving grace for the union is now timing, by the time Krankie gets round to booking indyref 2 (either legitimately or a la Catalonia), the U.K. will already be out of the EU and so unless she backhandedly opens negotiations with the EU now, Scotland could well end up facing a Mickey Flannagan (i.e. OUT OUT). A project fear stay camp would plug that line for all its worth portraying the potential devastation of being completely isolated.

[super_realist]

Interestingly JAS the spiteful SNP only got 45% of the ballot, therefore I don't see how they could be confident they'd even win a referendum.
They still have fewer people voting for them in Scotland than voted for both No in the Indy ref and Brexit in the EU referendum.

They've also got the Salmond trial coming up too.

[McLaren]

Super

Do you speak to anyone around you? I know lots of people who would never vote SNP in an election who would currently vote for independence if given the chance. Even before this election liberal leaning people in Scotland felt a disconnect with England and this will only have worsened.

Just think about your own position, do you object to independence for reasons beyond how you interpret the economics of the situation?

[super_realist]

Super

Do you speak to anyone around you? I know lots of people who would never vote SNP in an election who would currently vote for independence if given the chance. Even before this election liberal leaning people in Scotland felt a disconnect with England and this will only have worsened.

Just think about your own position, do you object to independence for reasons beyond how you interpret the economics of the situation?

Mac, you know that I don't like nationalism, but economics is my main consideration.
I think Scotland is a pretty rubbish country, I'm not sure how it could work on its own when you see the quality of MPs we have. Just take a look at Mhari Black or that oaf who is the Westminster leader.
I actually only know a couple of people who would like independence.

You also have to consider that not all people who vote for the SNP in Scotland are also independence voters. Many are protest votes against Labour and Conservatives.

[McLaren]

Super

But like picking the least worst candidate (Trump/Clinton, Corbyn/Boris) we might be given the chance to decide whether to go with a future driven by English nationalism or one by Scottish nationalism.

[super_realist]

You have to think about it a bit more long term, yes, it would be good not to be under the government of Johnson, but that's not forever. Who knows what it will be like in 5,10,20 years.
SNP seem to have this desperate rush to be independent and it seems rather spiteful.

Either way, I've been looking for work elsewhere and will continue to do so.

[navyblueshorts]

Anyway by this time tomorrow hopefully Corbyn Abbott and MacD will have resigned.
I wondered about the weather today and any impact it may have rained all day here and of course the media cannot say a word about the election until 10pm.
Always surprised you do not need ID to cast a vote just pitch up with your name and address and find out someone else has had your vote!

Corbyn claiming he might stay on for a bit. What's the point? Labour clearly need to move away from their teenage politics and Momentum mob and get back to the Labour heartland. Their ineptitude had put Boris in for the next 5 years, not anything to do with the Tories really. Cameron had the good grace to resign upon failing, why won't Corbyn and his pathetic minions?

It was also funny to see "our next Prime Minister" Jo Swinson lose her seat.

Yep, there simply has to be an acceptance that England is not and never will be a socialist country, what the hell happened in 1945 when Attlee got elected? was there a war or something beforehand that befuddled people? Regardless of what spirit of society there was then, it clearly doesn’t exist now.

Grab yourselves a seat and a big bucket of popcorn because there’s gonna be a fight and the fight for the soul of the Labour Party is going to be big and it’s going to be ugly.

There is a big problem that lies at the heart of the U.K. That is that Scotland leans further to the left than England would ever be prepared to. Moreover, the Jocks object quite strongly to being subjected to stuff the fundamentally disagree with. The chameleons of SNP know that and have positioned themselves just left of center left and that completely eclipses Labour in Scotland.

The one saving grace for the union is now timing, by the time Krankie gets round to booking indyref 2 (either legitimately or a la Catalonia), the U.K. will already be out of the EU and so unless she backhandedly opens negotiations with the EU now, Scotland could well end up facing a Mickey Flannagan (i.e. OUT OUT). A project fear stay camp would plug that line for all its worth portraying the potential devastation of being completely isolated.

WWII, returning soldiers demanding (rightly) their pound of flesh for services rendered, chance to end old style 'class' etc. See women's enfranchisement post-WWI....

[navyblueshorts]

Super

But like picking the least worst candidate (Trump/Clinton, Corbyn/Boris) we might be given the chance to decide whether to go with a future driven by English nationalism or one by Scottish nationalism.

You'll get it, but not just yet. The Union is a dead duck; just a matter of when. Devolution opened Pandora's Box; can't put what came out back in now. For me, I think we should present it fait accompli to Scotland, Wales and N.I. You're on your own - grow up, so we (England) can too.

[navyblueshorts]

You have to think about it a bit more long term, yes, it would be good not to be under the government of Johnson, but that's not forever. Who knows what it will be like in 5,10,20 years.
SNP seem to have this desperate rush to be independent and it seems rather spiteful.

Either way, I've been looking for work elsewhere and will continue to do so.

Think it's more the typical politician (Sturgeon) wanting the legacy credit for 'freeing' Scotland. There's spite there as well though, of course. Someone suggested to me that it had elements of a sort of Celtic apartheid running through it - you English were never natives here in these Isles; go away. We Celts are so superior to you. Etc. Not sure myself, but was an interesting point to raise...

[super_realist]

You have to think about it a bit more long term, yes, it would be good not to be under the government of Johnson, but that's not forever. Who knows what it will be like in 5,10,20 years.
SNP seem to have this desperate rush to be independent and it seems rather spiteful.

Either way, I've been looking for work elsewhere and will continue to do so.

Think it's more the typical politician (Sturgeon) wanting the legacy credit for 'freeing' Scotland. There's spite there as well though, of course. Someone suggested to me that it had elements of a sort of Celtic apartheid running through it - you English were never natives here in these Isles; go away. We Celts are so superior to you. Etc. Not sure myself, but was an interesting point to raise...

That's the thing about those idiots who claim a certain "Celtic" heritage. Genetically there's no such thing as Celtic. It's a meaningless label.

[McLaren]

Genetically there is no such thing as black but you still take issue with it.

[super_realist]

Genetically there is no such thing as black but you still take issue with it.

Give it a rest Mac.

[JAS]

Interestingly JAS the spiteful SNP only got 45% of the ballot, therefore I don't see how they could be confident they'd even win a referendum.
They still have fewer people voting for them in Scotland than voted for both No in the Indy ref and Brexit in the EU referendum.

They've also got the Salmond trial coming up too.

Oddly as well Super as a kind of quid pro quo, if you totalled up remain/2nd referendum/people’s vote party votes and Pro Brexit parties votes and made the Brexit decision based on that, we wouldn’t be leaving. The fact is we live in a first past the post representative democracy and so we get the kind of quirks that you and I have just highlighted.

Any upcoming indyref2 will have a significantly different backdrop to 2014. I.e. a coalition government within the EU versus a Tory 80 majority, nationalist, dog whistle racist, isolationist government outside the EU. It would be a MASSIVE leap to expect Scottish voters to vote the same in those 2 scenarios.
Not sure the Salmond trial will cut much trouble, not exactly the kind of issue Sturgeon would get herself mired in is it. You do have to take your hat off to Sturgeon, don’t particularly like her, I find her repetitive and irritating but I do credit her with decent leadership, if you win over 80% of the seats you’ve contested you must have a) got your message across & b) marshalled you’re troops well. Having said that, it now remains to be seen where exactly she has led her troops!!

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