Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

https://officiating.worldrugby.org/?module=3&section=36&subsection=129&language=en

"It is not mandatory for the team receiving the challenge to face it."

How many effing times. If they don't face it up silently and respectfully they get massive media criticism.

No they don't!

This is getting crazy!

[McLaren]

Super

The point is that you are losing your mind over the claims of some activists but you fail to see the predicted dangers of climate change from the mainstream scientific community.

It's not like the mainstream climate science consensus says everything will be fine, far from it. The warnings are dire.

[super_realist]

I'm not. I'm saying that the climate hysteria of the media face of Climate Change Protest is taking away from the climate change argument because it's been taken over by a large proportion of liars and people who don't even understand what climate change is.

No one is saying that it will be fine, but making claims of eating pets, becoming cannibals, suggesting we might be the last generation and that humans are facing extinction is complete and utter balls. Science is not backing those claims, an entire generation is growing up believing the fanciful and frankly absurd claims of a bunch of middle class hypocritical morons.

Humankind has lived through much harsher climates than what we currently have or are forecast to have from both hot and cold extremes. The difference is now we have a far greater understanding and we have more science and technology to cope with the symptoms of a changing climate. Indoctrinating people into a doomsday scenario isn't going to help anyone, whilst the demands of groups like Extinction Rebellion will simply put more people in poverty. It solves nothing and shows just how immature their argument is.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

Tattie

Are you talking about East anglia uni's climategate emails?

If so you might want to look into that a bit more.

No Mac, I'm talking about governmental interference.

Anyway...the climate has always changed, and will continue to do so well after we're all gone.....it's a natural process. Our main worry should be diminishing resources. Nothing lasts forever.

[kwinigolfer]

Tattie,

I hope that what you're saying is that the effects of humans on climate change is debatable (but that it is certainly changing based upon 100-year readings), but also that the fact that humans are changing the habitat is undeniable.

Perhaps your comment about "diminishing resources" (and hopefully doing what we can to better preserve them) would be a good meeting point from which all points of view can agree and move forward?

Imagine that's what ben is saying also.

(Don't agree with your criticism of Al Gore however . . . . . )

[navyblueshorts]

Been away a few days and this is what I return to? Sheesh...

It should be axiomatic that humankind minimise its footprint. It should be axiomatic that we minimise waste, of all kinds, going into the environment. Money is not the be all and end all.

Random thought re. Australian fires etc: without trying to minimise the effects for those currently wondering if they're about to be the next BBQ course, why is it that species of eucalypts are so prevalent there I wonder? Ditto other places such as California...

All the best to one and all for 2020.

[dynamark]

Axiomatic -hell NVB what does that mean.Im sure I fires happen all over but very severe this year in Oz
Happy new year all weather should be improving soon and maybe a little golf

[Be_the_ball]

Happy New Year all!!
 

May 2020 bring you good health, hit fairways, flushed irons, made putts & lower handicaps

[kwinigolfer]

Wot, No ?

Happy New Year Chappesses & Chaps.

[Be_the_ball]

Wot, No ?

Happy New Year Chappesses & Chaps.

The country ran out of after some golf event in July! rumour has it stocks wont be replenished until March the 17th

Thanks for your NFTBW throughout the year Kwini, always insightful & entertaining and attracts at least as many visitors to this board as Super chases away

[beninho]

Happy new year to all. 2019, was a shocker. Lets hope the new one is a slight improvement.

[super_realist]

2019 was pretty good Beninho.

If you're talking politics then yes, it was bad, but it would be bad regardless of who had won.

[beninho]

My mum battled liver cancer pretty much throughout 2019, she died about 3 weeks ago, in general that makes 2019 a shocker.

[super_realist]

My mum battled liver cancer pretty much throughout 2019, she died about 3 weeks ago, in general that makes 2019 a shocker.

Sorry to hear that Beninho. It's a terrible thing to have to go through.

[westisbest]

Sad news Ben. Sorry for your loss.

Hopefullly a great 2020 for you.

The mighty Wycombe to get promoted.

[Be_the_ball]

My mum battled liver cancer pretty much throughout 2019, she died about 3 weeks ago, in general that makes 2019 a shocker.

Very sorry to hear that Ben. Her suffering is over now. I'm sorry for your loss.

[McLaren]

I'm saying that the climate hysteria of the media face of Climate Change Protest is taking away from the climate change argument because it's been taken over by a large proportion of liars and people who don't even understand what climate change is

But why are you letting the extreme protesters help form your beliefs about the extent of the damage climate change will cause to the environment?

Why not delve into the science and you might find the situation is a little more serious than you think.

[super_realist]

I'm saying that the climate hysteria of the media face of Climate Change Protest is taking away from the climate change argument because it's been taken over by a large proportion of liars and people who don't even understand what climate change is

But why are you letting the extreme protesters help form your beliefs about the extent of the damage climate change will cause to the environment?

Why not delve into the science and you might find the situation is a little more serious than you think.

Mac, you really are dense. The climate change zealots are not shaping my beliefs, but they are shaping those of gullible, uneducated people and the young into making them falsely believe that we are about to experience imminent death by spreading unscientific rants as I previously mentioned (if you are too stupid to remember I am talking about the claims of mass extinction (not backed up by science) that we will have to eat our pets (From Emma Thomson, again not backed up by science) that 200 species per day are being made extinct by climate change, (not backed by science) that London will be underwater in 10 years (not backed up by science) that we will all become cannibals (not backed up by science)

Their lies are becoming mainstream despite there being no evidence to back up their claims. That's the point, furthermore their demands (zero carbon by 2025) would be catastrophic for millions of people on the planet.

That's the problem, this militant, sensationalist and alarming cult for some reason are getting media coverage without any scepticism and their claims are being accepted by certain groups as being factual. Why do you not see that as an issue?
Surely you want to believe as many true things as possible and as few untrue things? Disgusting hypocritical liars like Extinction Rebellion are the equivalent of Anti-Vaccination groups and religious groups who are predicting the rapture.

There is also the insinuation that climate change will affect everyone in a catastrophic way and that it is somehow an end to the life we currently know. Are people really so stupid to believe we haven't lived through hotter climates before, with no catastrophic results?
For the vast majority of people climate change isn't going to make an appreciable difference, and in some respects it might actually enhance their lives. There is no "optimum" climate and it's stupid of these idiotic group to suggest that we should strive to maintain one.
The whole cynical move to rename climate change to climate crisis/emergency is a symptom of this. Yes, climate is changing, yes it will affect some people negatively maybe even catastrophically, but calm down, we'll cope with it as we cope with everything.

[beninho]

Cheers all, its been a generally crap Christmas. But you learn to cope.

Anyway, some, not overly serious arguments with realist, helps to keep you occupied.

[kwinigolfer]

Very sorry to read your news, ben.
Best wishes for a much better 2020 . . . . and no begrudging if WW are promoted alongside PFC.

[superflyweight]

Stabbzy actively encouraged people to vote a certain way, that's more than just expressing an opinion.

You are always asking for examples of racist comments you have made. Here is a very blatant one.

How is it racist Mac? He stands for a culture which has a habit of stabbing people. Why isn't it happening in the black communities in other cities? If it was a race issue, then why are white people also being stabbed in London and why aren't the black community also doing it in other communities? It's not a black issue, it's a community issue.

Stormzy is probably the worst "anarchist" I think I've ever seen. A man who appears to be so thick that he can't even make a decent political point, a case in point just shouting "What about Gwenfehhhhhh Theresa" or "F**k the Government" An idiot of a man, and then blaming the government with his union jack stab proof vest for the stabbings in London instead of the communities, gangs, music and individuals themselves. The guy is a moron from a community of morons.

This is either an attempt at further wummery or has been written by a rogue Russian bot that has somehow achieved consciousness but has only ever read the Daily Mail.  Surely anyone with even the slightest bit of emotional intelligence would not offer such definitive opinions on something they clearly know very little about and could never fully understand given how far they are removed from the relevant cultural and generational issues?  

I'm also very far removed from the relevant cultural and generational issues and can't possibly hope to understand them, but it's fairly obvious that if that "community" is to be properly engaged with and understood then figures like Stormzy are very important to that process.  He's not an idiot and even just the slightest bit of background reading shows that he clearly cares about his community and has taken positive steps personally to try and effect change.

[super_realist]

I was talking about his playground anarchism which amounts to the sort of rants I'd expect from a teenager.
If he truly cared then he wouldn't be part of a music genre that so blatantly glorifies gang life and violence.

As for me being racist, well its not me who has created Oxbridge scholarships for black people only. If that had been me I would have created scholarships for people from all disadvantaged backgrounds, not scholarships you can only qualify for if you have a certain colour of skin. The guy is a plank.

[dynamark]

Morning guys day off today trying to get used to my 2 1/2 day week contract .
BBC weather fella today was asked about the rain in Indonesia and the heat in Oz and he said it was a shift in weather and wind patterns which was not without precedent and a normal global weather event which was a change from the doom of many others.Its interesting to hear from University professors in climate or whatever and they tend to go down the route you would expect in their job and anyone who disagrees is somehow uneducated and uninformed.
Bad news in Oz though for sure.
Sorry to hear Bens news

[super_realist]

Morning guys day off today trying to get used to my 2 1/2 day week contract .
BBC weather fella today was asked about the rain in Indonesia and the heat in Oz and he said it was a shift in weather and wind patterns which was not without precedent and a normal global weather event which was a change from the doom of many others.Its interesting to hear from University professors in climate or whatever and they tend to go down the route you would expect in their job and anyone who disagrees is somehow uneducated and uninformed.
Bad news in Oz though for sure.
Sorry to hear Bens news

Very unusual to hear that on the BBC. I was watching this morning though and they lazily attempted to bunch in the warm Norwegian mountain temps with the so called "climate crisis" when it was a natural topographic effect.

Half the problem with the whole climate change argument is terrible journalism and poor representation of facts causing them to bag up all weather events in the same envelope when they are so clearly not.

[dynamark]

Surprised me as most journalism is based on headlines and sensation .No one just reports basic factual stuff (I'm thinkin man bites dog ,freddy starr ate my hamster)The Brian Cox planets stuff repeats was good over the holiday speaking in millions of years about changes on plantets.Lets face it we are only here for a few seconds and we can do our bit but bigger forces in play.
Just diverting to football I can see the teams and managers doing their collective nut about injuries in the pile up of winter fixtures .Newcastle with just 12 fit players apparently.
Lucky LCFC still 2nd and with a solid back up squad.

[superflyweight]

I was talking about his playground anarchism which amounts to the sort of rants I'd expect from a teenager.
If he truly cared then he wouldn't be part of a music genre that so blatantly glorifies gang life and violence.

As for me being racist, well its not me who has created Oxbridge scholarships for black people only. If that had been me I would have created scholarships for people from all disadvantaged backgrounds, not scholarships you can only qualify for if you have a certain colour of skin. The guy is a plank.

Jesus wept.

[super_realist]

I was talking about his playground anarchism which amounts to the sort of rants I'd expect from a teenager.
If he truly cared then he wouldn't be part of a music genre that so blatantly glorifies gang life and violence.

As for me being racist, well its not me who has created Oxbridge scholarships for black people only. If that had been me I would have created scholarships for people from all disadvantaged backgrounds, not scholarships you can only qualify for if you have a certain colour of skin. The guy is a plank.

Jesus wept.  

Yes, my thoughts exactly. Why would anyone be allowed to have a scholarship on the basis of your skin colour. You could be black and minted and still get the scholarship, far better and fairer to have a scholarship for people from deprived backgrounds and regions

[superflyweight]

Are you one of those people who thinks it's funny to shout "White Lives Matter"?

[super_realist]

Are you one of those people who thinks it's funny to shout "White Lives Matter"?  

No, I simply don't think that in this day and age that anything should only be available to people of a certain skin colour, regardless of what it is to the exclusion of others, do you think that we should still be discriminating?

[superflyweight]

I don't see it as discrimination.

[super_realist]

I don't see it as discrimination.  

Is it open to all? No. Therefore it discriminates against those who don't fit a certain criteria so is by definition discrimination. Even if you think it's being done for "good reasons" it is clearly discriminating.

When I went to Uni there was no way the Uni could tell what skin colour I had, all that mattered was my grades for entrance consideration.

Why would anyone want to offer university places on the basis of what skin colour you are?

[superflyweight]

I don't see it as discrimnation because of the context in which it is being offered.  Not everything has to be (for want of a better phrase) "black or white" and fit with a dictionary definition.  

My firm (via a scholarship which has been set up in the name of a partner who died a couple of years ago) offers university funding and an automatic summer placements (these placements are ridiculously difficult to get and are very close to essential if someone wants to be offered an opportunity to train with the firm) for people from disadvantaged backgrounds in Scotland.  It's not available to anyone outside Scotland (although we're an international firm) and it's open only to people from a certain social demographic.  The idea is that it allows people to achieve their potential (as demonstrated by their academic results) in spite of social barriers which might otherwise prevent them doing so.   

Under your definition it would be deemed to be discriminatory, which would be an egregious interpretation.

As someone who interviews a lot of graduate applicants, it's an undeniable truth that people from a more affluent background are more confident in presenting themselves during the recruitment process, regardless of whether or not they are any good.  Given the limited time vailable during the recruitment process, that confidence can go a long way to making the difference between acceptance and rejection and those applicants benefit from positive discrimination and are automatically at an advantage.  Without wishing to punish anyone because they happen to be have been lucky in being born to affuent parents, anything which can be done to address the balance should be welcomed.

Equally, if Stormzy offering scholarships to black students encourages more black people to apply for Oxbridge then that can only be a positive thing.

[super_realist]

You are missing my point. I'm absolutely fine to offer places on the basis of giving an opportunity to people from a disadvantaged background. I simply don't think that skin colour alone should be a criteria of that, as its unfair to separate those who might be equally disadvantaged but just not the same colour. I also think that Diane Abbot is a disgrace for only employing those from a BAME background.

[superflyweight]

I understand your point.  But if you take your argument to its hyper-logical conclusion, why should being from a disadvantaged background be a criteria?  

Stormzy makes the scholarship available to people from his own ethnic group because he wants to see more people from that group represented at places like Oxford and Cambridge.   It's a stated fact that it's an ethinic group which is under-represented at those universities.  Quote from the Vice Chancellor at Cambridge:

“Last year, 61 new black students arrived to take up their courses at Cambridge, the largest number ever but not nearly as many as we would like. We know we need to work harder to ensure that black students not only apply to study at the university, but that they feel at home here and achieve their full potential.”

[super_realist]

I understand your point.  But if you take your argument to its hyper-logical conclusion, why should being from a disadvantaged background be a criteria?  

Stormzy makes the scholarship available to people from his own ethnic group because he wants to see more people from that group represented at places like Oxford and Cambridge.   It's a stated fact that it's an ethinic group which is under-represented at those universities.  Quote from the Vice Chancellor at Cambridge:

“Last year, 61 new black students arrived to take up their courses at Cambridge, the largest number ever but not nearly as many as we would like. We know we need to work harder to ensure that black students not only apply to study at the university, but that they feel at home here and achieve their full potential.”

If you extend that to its logical conclusion though you could say that Nigel Farage could set up a university fund for discriminated white males. It wouldn't be accepted, so why accept a discriminatory policy from any side?


Is the representation of black people in university even an issue? 50% of my Masters course were Nigerian.
It might be an anomaly, but if we allow positive discrimination for one thing, we have to allow it for all.
Why don't universities just have a double blind application where no one can tell who you are or where you are from and it is done on the basis of what your qualifications are? That's certainly the case in many job applications these days.

[superflyweight]

I understand your point.  But if you take your argument to its hyper-logical conclusion, why should being from a disadvantaged background be a criteria?  

Stormzy makes the scholarship available to people from his own ethnic group because he wants to see more people from that group represented at places like Oxford and Cambridge.   It's a stated fact that it's an ethinic group which is under-represented at those universities.  Quote from the Vice Chancellor at Cambridge:

“Last year, 61 new black students arrived to take up their courses at Cambridge, the largest number ever but not nearly as many as we would like. We know we need to work harder to ensure that black students not only apply to study at the university, but that they feel at home here and achieve their full potential.”

If you extend that to its logical conclusion though you could say that Nigel Farage could set up a university fund for discriminated white males. It wouldn't be accepted, so why accept a discriminatory policy from any side?


Is the representation of black people in university even an issue? 50% of my Masters course were Nigerian.
It might be an anomaly, but if we allow positive discrimination for one thing, we have to allow it for all.
Why don't universities just have a double blind application where no one can tell who you are or where you are from and it is done on the basis of what your qualifications are? That's certainly the case in many job applications these days.

White men tend not to be discriminated against.

It's a nice idea re university applications, but it doesn't happen.

[super_realist]

I understand your point.  But if you take your argument to its hyper-logical conclusion, why should being from a disadvantaged background be a criteria?  

Stormzy makes the scholarship available to people from his own ethnic group because he wants to see more people from that group represented at places like Oxford and Cambridge.   It's a stated fact that it's an ethinic group which is under-represented at those universities.  Quote from the Vice Chancellor at Cambridge:

“Last year, 61 new black students arrived to take up their courses at Cambridge, the largest number ever but not nearly as many as we would like. We know we need to work harder to ensure that black students not only apply to study at the university, but that they feel at home here and achieve their full potential.”

If you extend that to its logical conclusion though you could say that Nigel Farage could set up a university fund for discriminated white males. It wouldn't be accepted, so why accept a discriminatory policy from any side?


Is the representation of black people in university even an issue? 50% of my Masters course were Nigerian.
It might be an anomaly, but if we allow positive discrimination for one thing, we have to allow it for all.
Why don't universities just have a double blind application where no one can tell who you are or where you are from and it is done on the basis of what your qualifications are? That's certainly the case in many job applications these days.

White men tend not to be discriminated against.  

It's a nice idea re university applications, but it doesn't happen.  

Stormzy is discriminating against them. Just because they aren't black doesn't mean they don't come from the same deprived background as the people that Stormzy is targeting.

[dynamark]

Chance to go to Uni would have been nice.And I got me A levels.
This has always been more parental for me if there is someone behind you giving support and a shove then you tend to get there.Whether you stick It out and achieve is another matter.
Fact is this if you are any good determined and work hard you can do really well in our country.
I'm always uncomfortable with any kind of selection based on male/female.ethnic groups.gay ,whatever its just not the way to go about things.Talent and ablilty is the definer not percentages.At my age you look back at people you were at school with and Im seeing allsorts of outcomes

[Plunky]

Oxford  and Cambridge historically always had positive discrimination in favor of white men. They have their own exams intended to require more original thinking than a levels, and the interviews involve questions aimed to benefit those students who can think around a subject rather than just regurgitate school-learned facts.   But the public schools have always had the resources to teach towards those exams and interview questions.   How many white male public school teachers go on to become admissions tutors at Oxbridge colleges ? How many white male public school teachers keep in close touch with their old Oxbridge college and put in a good word for their top students ?

The situation has been changing slowly.  Changes in personnel at Oxbridge colleges, public schools becoming more inclusive, non-public schools preparing students for the Oxbridge exams, women being admitted into Oxbridge colleges, etc.  Surely anything that's tries to address the historical inbalance should be welcomed ?

[navyblueshorts]

Some good points Plunky.

Shame a colour-blind approach isn't applied to white, male students from 'disadvantaged' backgrounds. Lowest achievers of all (in UK) according to a number of surveys. Seem to recall some rich guy recently trying to get Dulwich and Winchester to allow him to endow scholarships for them, but they turned him down. Too contentious. OK not to help that group though, as they're white.

[Plunky]

As a result of that story I understand that several state schools all in underprivileged areas are now in talks with that wealthy donor.  They're looking for his help to improve facilities, staffing, and extra-curricular opportunities etc .  Hopefully that will end up benefiting many more needy students than his original plan.

[dynamark]

The term underprivileged fascinates me ,Does that mean you have coal mine in your back yard and no youth club ? Not sure about the word privilege.
What I think it generally means is an area with a low general level of income and employment ,probably more crime,less well maintained streets,facilities and buildings,
Sadly we are not all born equal in all areas and some do not take the opportunities we are all given when we start at primary school ,do not have the same parental input and income and level of basic nouse.No place for discrimination but trying to equalize mps ,police numbers,teachers across society fir the sake of it is also a no.We need to lift the overall level.

[kwinigolfer]

All very well dyna, and like you I went straight into the workforce (advised I'd be wasting my time applying to uni), but trying to lift the overall level doesn't preclude an opportunity to identify and encourage students who don't have the advantages (safe living environment, one parent always at home, etc, etc) that I for one had. Surely?

[navyblueshorts]

As a result of that story I understand that several state schools all in underprivileged areas are now in talks with that wealthy donor.  They're looking for his help to improve facilities, staffing, and extra-curricular opportunities etc .  Hopefully that will end up benefiting many more needy students than his original plan.

So much the better if that's the case.

[super_realist]

The term underprivileged fascinates me ,Does that mean you have coal mine in your back yard and no youth club ? Not sure about the word privilege.
What I think it generally means is an area with a low general level of income and employment ,probably more crime,less well maintained streets,facilities and buildings,
Sadly we are not all born equal in all areas and some do not take the opportunities we are all given when we start at primary school ,do not have the same parental input and income and level of basic nouse.No place for discrimination but trying to equalize mps ,police numbers,teachers across society fir the sake of it  is also a no.We need to lift the overall level.

Not being born equal means that we develop traits like ambition and innovation. If everyone was the same it would be the sort of hell hole that Corbyn would want us to live in.

[McLaren]

What an utter disgrace.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51020104

[super_realist]

What an utter disgrace.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51020104

Appearing on the BBC? Agree, disgrace.

Clearly wearing slippers is just to create a story. Who the hell owns, let alone wears slippers?

[superflyweight]

That b@stard is wearing trousers. Who the hell owns, let alone wears trousers?

[super_realist]

That b@stard is wearing trousers.  Who the hell owns, let alone wears trousers?  

Everyone I imagine. Virtually no one wears slippers though, and no one is dim enough to forget to take them off unless they have alzheimers.

[navyblueshorts]

What an utter disgrace.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51020104

Appearing on the BBC? Agree, disgrace.

Clearly wearing slippers is just to create a story. Who the hell owns, let alone wears slippers?

Me, for one, occasionally. Keeps the feet warm sometimes when I'm cold. Don't wear them outside though.

[superflyweight]

That b@stard is wearing trousers.  Who the hell owns, let alone wears trousers?  

Everyone I imagine. Virtually no one wears slippers though, and no one is dim enough to forget to take them off unless they have alzheimers.

How have you managed to reach that conclusion?  Exhaustive empirical research?

My gran (very much of sound mind at the time) once forgot to take off her slippers and then came with us on a day trip to Aberdeen (it was the 80's and there was only four TV channels and no internet so going to Aberdeen for a day out didn't seem an entirely strange concept).  Stuck out like a sore thumb on Union Street as she was by far the most stylish person.

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