WQ players in England (and elsewhere)

by mikey_dragon Sun 24 Nov 2019, 2:34 pm

First topic message reminder :

I recently did one of these for South African players after being astonished at the amount of quality Saffa's in every team in every top-flight league. The number of our guys in England could be on the rise again so I'm going to comprise a list as best as I can. If I've missed a few then please comment. I'm also aware that some of these guys have been in EP academies since age 18.

Leicester Tigers;
Joe Thomas (centre), Tommy Reffell (back-row), Sam Costelow (fly-half), Jonah Holmes (wing/full-back).

Worcester Warriors:
Ashley Beck (centre), Sam Lewis (back-row).

Bristol Bears:
Ioan Lloyd (fly-half), Dan Thomas (back-row), Ryan Edwards (wing), Mat Protheroe (fly-half), potentially welsh Calum Sheedy (fly-half), Nicky Thomas (prop).

Saracens: Liam Williams (wing/full-back), Rhys Carre (prop), Sam Wainwright (prop).

Exeter: Tomas Francis (prop), Phil Dollman (full-back), WQ Tom Price (lock).

Gloucester: Owen Williams (fly-half), Louis Rees-Zammit (wing).

Sale Sharks: Willgriff John (prop), Joe Jones (prop).

Northampton Saints: Dan Biggar (fly-half).

Bath: Jamie Roberts (centre), Taulupe Faletau (No.8), Aled Brew (wing), Rhys Priestland (fly-half).

Wasps: Thomas Young (back-row).

Nottingham: Llewelyn Jones (lock).

France - Vannes: Carwyn Jones (lock).

Japan - Toyota Verblitz: Dom Day (lock).

So it's a worrying time given the state of our teams. We only have 4; Scarlets play in the challenge cup and are our best team but they are not as good as Sarries, Exeter or Leinster right now. If the WRU is to get an injection of cash then could it be used to strengthen the regions? A number of these players could be targeted to strengthen the overall squad depth of each team, which is probably where we are the most lacking. I would welcome more NWQ players into the fray, but I'm unable to tell who is available and willing to join any of our teams.

What do you think?

by Stone Motif Wed 27 Nov 2019, 4:16 pm

miaow wrote:There's clearly a difference between 'top 5 clubmen' and actually 'top 5 players' though. Take those players outside their teams - let them join another team, for instance - and you'll get a very different top 5. Pointless trying to neglect actual international ability and expertise which is clearly a better marker of ability and quality than Pro14, particularly against mid table sides.

The point I'm making is that the Ospreys have better 'best' players than Dragons. Again, I'll reiterate that. Both sides have some promising young talent beneath that, but if you consider Lewis Evans is basically the equivalent of Dan Lydiate, it just shows where the two teams are. The Ospreys need a proper coach and in the short term they could be challenging for the title. Should be challenging for the play offs easily with the talent they have. The Dragons are still some way off that.

That's a terrible evaluation of talent and a basic lack of knowledge regarding both teams. You didn't even read the bit where unsaid AWJ and Tips are head and shoulders above. Point being those better 'best' players are only two guys with one at the Dragons coming up very fast on the rails into that bracket. You know, the one you conveniently forgot in your Dan Lydiate/Lewis Evans analogy. I'd pick Griffiths, Wainwright, Keddie or Taylor over 2019 Lydiate at 6 as would anyone else whose watched a game of rugby since the 2011 World Cup.

by Stone Motif Wed 27 Nov 2019, 4:18 pm

miaow wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
miaow wrote:Either way, without fixating on the top 5s, the point i the Ospreys clearly have the better 'best' players. All the mocking of the Ospreys is a bit weird from Dragons fans. As LD says, they've been the basement team in the Celtic League for a decade. The Ospreys are a shambles yet are still in the Champions Cup.

Some exaggeration there again.

For the benefit of you and Dowlais, it's not all of the Dragons fans and I wouldn't say there was a great deal of mocking either.

It's also a bit ironic to highlight they're in the Champions Cup, after you yourself have called them a shambles.

Geez, you're hard work. If you can't work out that if a team is still in top tier of Europe while in an absolute shambles that it's a sign they're 'better' than the alternative, then you're really struggling. This didn't have to turn in to a tit for tat, jesus, but you seem adamant that it has to. Go for a run or a cold shower or something.

They just lost to the Southern Kings, at home.

by Guest Wed 27 Nov 2019, 4:29 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Only one person having a hissy fit. Pretty par for the course mind. Considering you seem to be the root cause of most squabbles on here, I am not sure I am the problem.

Just pointing out that the two of you are criticising Dragons supporters, when there only seems to be one really commenting on them negatively. Then he hasn't really said anything worse than calling them a shambles either.

Edited - RDW

by Guest Wed 27 Nov 2019, 4:30 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
miaow wrote:There's clearly a difference between 'top 5 clubmen' and actually 'top 5 players' though. Take those players outside their teams - let them join another team, for instance - and you'll get a very different top 5. Pointless trying to neglect actual international ability and expertise which is clearly a better marker of ability and quality than Pro14, particularly against mid table sides.

The point I'm making is that the Ospreys have better 'best' players than Dragons. Again, I'll reiterate that. Both sides have some promising young talent beneath that, but if you consider Lewis Evans is basically the equivalent of Dan Lydiate, it just shows where the two teams are. The Ospreys need a proper coach and in the short term they could be challenging for the title. Should be challenging for the play offs easily with the talent they have. The Dragons are still some way off that.

That's a terrible evaluation of talent and a basic lack of knowledge regarding both teams. You didn't even read the bit where unsaid AWJ and Tips are head and shoulders above. Point being those better 'best' players are only two guys with one at the Dragons coming up very fast on the rails into that bracket. You know, the one you conveniently forgot in your Dan Lydiate/Lewis Evans analogy. I'd pick Griffiths, Wainwright, Keddie or Taylor over 2019 Lydiate at 6 as would anyone else whose watched a game of rugby since the 2011 World Cup.

It's a terrible evaluation of talent from the man who has literally suggested with a completely straight face that Adam Warren is a better rugby player than Ross Moriarty.

Edited - RDW

by Guest Wed 27 Nov 2019, 4:31 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
miaow wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
miaow wrote:Either way, without fixating on the top 5s, the point i the Ospreys clearly have the better 'best' players. All the mocking of the Ospreys is a bit weird from Dragons fans. As LD says, they've been the basement team in the Celtic League for a decade. The Ospreys are a shambles yet are still in the Champions Cup.

Some exaggeration there again.

For the benefit of you and Dowlais, it's not all of the Dragons fans and I wouldn't say there was a great deal of mocking either.

It's also a bit ironic to highlight they're in the Champions Cup, after you yourself have called them a shambles.

Geez, you're hard work. If you can't work out that if a team is still in top tier of Europe while in an absolute shambles that it's a sign they're 'better' than the alternative, then you're really struggling. This didn't have to turn in to a tit for tat, jesus, but you seem adamant that it has to. Go for a run or a cold shower or something.

They just lost to the Southern Kings, at home.

Compare both teams' records v the Kings since they entered the Pro14. Go on. Let's see it. You've well and truly derailed this thread so let's have it, back up your words/turds.

by **RDW** Wed 27 Nov 2019, 4:52 pm

miaow - as you know we've removed personal attacks directed against you in recent weeks, now you are doing exactly the same thing. There's no need for the add ons in each post directed to individuals.

by Stone Motif Wed 27 Nov 2019, 4:56 pm

miaow wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
miaow wrote:There's clearly a difference between 'top 5 clubmen' and actually 'top 5 players' though. Take those players outside their teams - let them join another team, for instance - and you'll get a very different top 5. Pointless trying to neglect actual international ability and expertise which is clearly a better marker of ability and quality than Pro14, particularly against mid table sides.

The point I'm making is that the Ospreys have better 'best' players than Dragons. Again, I'll reiterate that. Both sides have some promising young talent beneath that, but if you consider Lewis Evans is basically the equivalent of Dan Lydiate, it just shows where the two teams are. The Ospreys need a proper coach and in the short term they could be challenging for the title. Should be challenging for the play offs easily with the talent they have. The Dragons are still some way off that.

That's a terrible evaluation of talent and a basic lack of knowledge regarding both teams. You didn't even read the bit where unsaid AWJ and Tips are head and shoulders above. Point being those better 'best' players are only two guys with one at the Dragons coming up very fast on the rails into that bracket. You know, the one you conveniently forgot in your Dan Lydiate/Lewis Evans analogy. I'd pick Griffiths, Wainwright, Keddie or Taylor over 2019 Lydiate at 6 as would anyone else whose watched a game of rugby since the 2011 World Cup.

It's a terrible evaluation of talent from the man who has literally suggested with a completely straight face that Adam Warren is a better rugby player than Ross Moriarty.

I have no idea what psychodelics you're on but honestly it sounds like one hell of a trip.

I haven't suggested anything. I qualified my selection on the basis of value, your lack of conception of which is exactly what led us down this merry path. Adam Warren has never played a bad game for the Dragons. He is available 100% of the season, is in the top five outside centres is Wales by anyone's reckoning, can play twelve or wing and didn't cost £500k.

His value to the Dragons is immeasurable in comparison to RM, who wouldn't even be a Welsh international if we were capable of breeding or finding a competent eight. He's not even the best blindside at the Dragons, let alone being the top player Wales in his natural position.

by LordDowlais Thu 28 Nov 2019, 8:35 am

Risca/stone motif, why don't you ever debate the topic in hand ?

Why is it with you, that all the time, you find the need yo come on here to just try and debunk and belittle people all the time.

The snide comments are constant.

For my liking, all the regions are a shambles at the moment, they are run by people who used to run them as clubs before we went properly professional, they need to be removed, but, with the WRU involvement, at least Dragons now seem to be turning a bit of a corner.

by Stone Motif Thu 28 Nov 2019, 9:26 am

LordDowlais wrote:Risca/stone motif, why don't you ever debate the topic in hand ?

Why is it with you, that all the time, you find the need yo come on here to just try and debunk and belittle people all the time.

The snide comments are constant.

For my liking, all the regions are a shambles at the moment, they are run by people who used to run them as clubs before we went properly professional, they need to be removed, but, with the WRU involvement, at least Dragons now seem to be turning a bit of a corner.

Um - the central point of Mikey's post was the dire state of the regional squads, and whether with an injection of cash any of the players in the list would help.

All I've done is suggest the malaise is far deeper than that. If it's snide you want, then not being thick, I can see that far from turning anything around, the WRU has entirely engineered this situation to try and force through its desired 2+2 model.

You're utterly wrong on the Dragons by the way, just for a change. The WRU got us Bernard Jackman, who came with the personal recommendation of the national coach. Dean Ryan was Buttress' doing. He's on record saying the WRU involvement with that is minimal, as it is with the proposals for the ground.

by **RiscaGame** Thu 28 Nov 2019, 9:53 am

LordDowlais wrote:Risca/stone motif, why don't you ever debate the topic in hand ?

Why is it with you, that all the time, you find the need yo come on here to just try and debunk and belittle people all the time.

The snide comments are constant.

For my liking, all the regions are a shambles at the moment, they are run by people who used to run them as clubs before we went properly professional, they need to be removed, but, with the WRU involvement, at least Dragons now seem to be turning a bit of a corner.

What is it with you, that it has gone onto another day and you felt you had to have your say. Is that conducive to moving a thread along?

I haven’t debunked anybody, I just highlighted that things didn’t have to be “the Dragons supporters”, when there was only one posting anything critical of Ospreys.

by LordDowlais Thu 28 Nov 2019, 10:09 am

The both of you never create a topic on here to encourage discussion, instead, you just go onto other threads that other people have started, and pick. pick, pick.......

And if anybody ever disagrees with you, or says something you do not like, then woe bedtide you. Rolling Eyes

It's very tiresome.

by SecretFly Thu 28 Nov 2019, 10:16 am

Stone Motif wrote:

The WRU got us Bernard Jackman, who came with the personal recommendation of the national coach.

Gatland recommended Jackman? Shocked

Must have had the flu that day; his mind must have been on a runny nose.

by LordDowlais Thu 28 Nov 2019, 10:35 am

Yes in hindsight, it was a massive mistake.

But he did change a lot out in Grenoble and stopped all the unhealthy eating and the what not, perhaps thats why Gatland told the WRU to put him at Dragons, to put a few noses out of joint, and to get people out of that comfy environment they were in.

But when it came to game tactics, and game management, he was dire. Unfortunately.

by Guest Thu 28 Nov 2019, 11:24 am

LordDowlais wrote:The both of you never create a topic on here to encourage discussion, instead, you just go onto other threads that other people have started, and pick. pick, pick.......

And if anybody ever disagrees with you, or says something you do not like, then woe bedtide you.

It's very tiresome.

You are driving people away from this site. I don't come on here much any more because of you and your posting Crying or Very sad

by **RiscaGame** Thu 28 Nov 2019, 11:29 am

LordDowlais wrote:The both of you never create a topic on here to encourage discussion, instead, you just go onto other threads that other people have started, and pick. pick, pick.......

And if anybody ever disagrees with you, or says something you do not like, then woe bedtide you.

It's very tiresome.

Inanely posing topics isn’t compulsory to be on this site though. It doesn’t make anybody a better poster, by starting a thread and plagiarising work etc.

You also don’t have to have the same opinion as everybody else, otherwise it’s not really a debate.

by Stone Motif Thu 28 Nov 2019, 11:31 am

LordDowlais wrote:Yes in hindsight, it was a massive mistake.

But he did change a lot out in Grenoble and stopped all the unhealthy eating and the what not, perhaps thats why Gatland told the WRU to put him at Dragons, to put a few noses out of joint, and to get people out of that comfy environment they were in.

But when it came to game tactics, and game management, he was dire. Unfortunately.

So, basically an utter disaster foisted on the Dragons by the WRU. All hail our union overlords and their stewardship of the game setting right these spendthrift numb-nuts millionaires selling regional rugby down the swanny.

by Stone Motif Thu 28 Nov 2019, 11:34 am

LordDowlais wrote:The both of you never create a topic on here to encourage discussion, instead, you just go onto other threads that other people have started, and pick. pick, pick.......

And if anybody ever disagrees with you, or says something you do not like, then woe bedtide you.

It's very tiresome.

Pointing out facts has never gone down well with the Merchant Upholsterer's Guild of Merthyr, that's true.

by LordDowlais Thu 28 Nov 2019, 11:52 am

RiscaGame wrote:You also don’t have to have the same opinion as everybody else, otherwise it’s not really a debate.

Yes, I agree, 100%. That should be encouraged.

But when members come on here with the sole intentions of belittling others for their opinions, and then moving heaven and earth to prove them wrong and claiming that they are using "facts" then it's not a debate anymore.

Debates are centered around people opinions, as you have pointed out, if you do not like peoples opinions, then you could either ignore them, or tell them without the air of entitlement or a chip on the shoulder.

This place would then become a much nicer place to debate.

by LordDowlais Thu 28 Nov 2019, 11:56 am

Stone Motif wrote:So, basically an utter disaster foisted on the Dragons by the WRU. All hail our union overlords and their stewardship of the game setting right these spendthrift numb-nuts millionaires selling regional rugby down the swanny.

A mistake they have then gone on and rectified. The current owners have been making mistakes for over a decade. The thing is, if the WRU were running the regions, they would not be doing it for the status symbol.

by Stone Motif Thu 28 Nov 2019, 12:00 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:So, basically an utter disaster foisted on the Dragons by the WRU. All hail our union overlords and their stewardship of the game setting right these spendthrift numb-nuts millionaires selling regional rugby down the swanny.

A mistake they have then gone on and rectified. The current owners have been making mistakes for over a decade. The thing is, if the WRU were running the regions, they would not be doing it for the status symbol.

No, they haven't. They've backed off from the day to day running and have encouraged a return to private ownership. The current owners haven't been in place for a decade they are the WRU, who were implicit in any running into the ground by virtue of the fact they strategically underfund the pro game so that it exists only as a farm for international players.

by Stone Motif Thu 28 Nov 2019, 12:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:You also don’t have to have the same opinion as everybody else, otherwise it’s not really a debate.

Yes, I agree, 100%. That should be encouraged.

But when members come on here with the sole intentions of belittling others for their opinions, and then moving heaven and earth to prove them wrong and claiming that they are using "facts" then it's not a debate anymore.

Debates are centered around people opinions, as you have pointed out, if you do not like peoples opinions, then you could either ignore them, or tell them without the air of entitlement or a chip on the shoulder.

This place would then become a much nicer place to debate.

Ah, the information age. I've got a channel to give my opinion and whether factually untrue or not I'm entitled to give it, so everyone must listen to me.

Personally find that kind of attitude equally offensive.

by Guest Sun 01 Dec 2019, 1:46 pm

Hopefully that Zebre result now gets *certain* Dragons supporters to have a rethink about Welsh rugby and the Ospreys.

by Stone Motif Sun 01 Dec 2019, 3:48 pm

miaow wrote:Hopefully that Zebre result now gets *certain* Dragons supporters to have a rethink about Welsh rugby and the Ospreys.

Completely expected comment. The question the hard of thinking should be asking themselves is whether any of the Ospreys team (that just lost, again) presence in the Dragons team was likely to have influenced the result.

by Guest Sun 01 Dec 2019, 4:35 pm

Perhaps just calm down, Stone, and realise that, yes, the Ospreys are still a better team with better players than the Dragons. There's only one person being petty and parochial about the two regions and it's not me. I have no dog in the fight.

by Stone Motif Sun 01 Dec 2019, 5:04 pm

miaow wrote:Perhaps just calm down, Stone, and realise that, yes, the Ospreys are still a better team with better players than the Dragons. There's only one person being petty and parochial about the two regions and it's not me. I have no dog in the fight.

I'm completely calm, in temperament much like a patient school teacher trying to explain a basic concept to an unfortunately limited school child.

How's about you back up your analysis and tell us which players from the Ospreys side that started yesterday you think would have influenced the result for the Dragons?

by Guest Sun 01 Dec 2019, 7:38 pm

Lots of projection there. Sorry you feel schooled, Stone.

by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Dec 2019, 8:06 pm

Shane Williams’ view on domestic rugby in Wales. Some of what he says has been obvious for a while though.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/its-easy-for-the-fans-not-to-bother-shane-williams-stark-assessment-of-welsh-regional-rugby

by Guest Sun 01 Dec 2019, 8:58 pm

miaow wrote:Perhaps just calm down, Stone, and realise that, yes, the Ospreys are still a better team with better players than the Dragons. There's only one person being petty and parochial about the two regions and it's not me. I have no dog in the fight.

Says the guy/girl who jumps straight on the Dragons’ thread to highlight the ‘shambolic’ result without contributing anything else of note previously. Hmmm. Seems pretty parochial to me. There’s a core of you - LD, Stefan, PhillBB and you - probably the same account actually, that all exhibit the same typical small minded Welsh rugby fan mentality. All cut from the same cloth. Want to see others fail so it makes your own team look better and they can pick up the ‘spoils’ of any team that goes under. As I posted elsewhere, shame. We’d be much better if we were united.

by Guest Sun 01 Dec 2019, 9:09 pm

Nope. You don't get it Oracle. You really don't. Mikey and a few other militant Dragons posters hounded out the likes of Scarlet Spiderman and numerous others with their bile for years and years and years. Only last week we have one gob spouting nonsense about the Dragons being better...and then a few days later they get absolutely spanked at home by Zebre, a team that hadn't won a game of rugby in 12 months.

You need to step back and take stock and what this is actually about. It's the quality of the site and not allowing the actual Dragons trolls dictate what is and isn't acceptable on Welsh rugby discussions. And Risca might dislike getting lumped in, but guess what, don't see him standing up for fairness, and happy to piggyback on anything that mocks the other regions while championing the Dragons.

It's just pointless. It has nothing to do with rugby. The Dragons are clearly still the weakest region yet are on an upward curve, finally. Nearly everyone in Wales is happy with that, apart from maybe your odd idiot like Phil. But then you have certain posters doing everything they can to make 'not about rugby' discussions on a rugby forum. Pointless, pathetic, aggressive, boring. That's why most posters have left, or as we see on the odd occasion..."I don't post here anymore but" - and then they're going a few hours later.

If you can't see that - if you aren't a former poster who hasn't been here since 2013ish - then I understand why you think what you do, but you're flat out, ridiculously wrong.

by Guest Sun 01 Dec 2019, 9:12 pm

And it's not just Welsh posters who have left, obviously. Goes without saying. But for Welsh discussions, the fact there are primarily only one region's fans left posting is telling. No one else could be bothered with the trolling.

by Cyril Sun 01 Dec 2019, 9:21 pm

It’s best just to report Miaow and let the mods deal with him. Not worth arguing with. Every. Single. Thread.

by Guest Sun 01 Dec 2019, 9:22 pm

Yes I was a former poster and have been around for a lot longer (asked RDW to delete my account a number of years back when I got fed up with certain Welsh posters, funnily enough). The thing is, I remember the days of certain posters (one Ospreys fan/floating fan in particular as it happens) who would always turn up and accuse the Dragons of a ‘lack of ambition’, asking why the board weren’t chucking millions at exiled Welsh players to bring them home, why they were ‘mismanaging the region’, why they weren’t being ‘regional’ and spreading the game around the region when the rest weren’t either, etc. Now the millions have dried up at the Ospreys, the funding isn’t what it was and the Galacticos have gone, and the results are starting to slide (in relative terms), I can understand the grievance from Dragons fans. Where are they now? The silence is deafening. They weren’t driven away. Some were banned and others left/stopped posting as much when they weren’t winning as much. Typical fair weather fans.

ScarletSpiderman - Strange poster to choose in your example. We got on well with him. Stefan, PhilBB and LD..... not so much.

by Guest Sun 01 Dec 2019, 9:23 pm

I could choose any good poster who has left. The point isn't about who was directly targeted, it was that the standards of this site declined massively as it became the virtual stress ball and therapist office for too many WUMs and trolls. Good posters stuck around for as long as possible but eventually it's like the greenhouse gas effect, too much bullsh1t creating a toxic environment, not enough clean air, and in the end the WUMs outnumbered the normal posters, instead of being the odd one here and there as it was on the old BBC site.

If you're a former poster you should recognise that.

by Guest Sun 01 Dec 2019, 9:30 pm

miaow wrote:I could choose any good poster who has left. The point isn't about who was directly targeted, it was that the standards of this site declined massively as it became the virtual stress ball and therapist office for too many WUMs and trolls. Good posters stuck around for as long as possible but eventually it's like the greenhouse gas effect, too much bullsh1t creating a toxic environment, not enough clean air, and in the end the WUMs outnumbered the normal posters, instead of being the odd one here and there as it was on the old BBC site.

If you're a former poster you should recognise that.

I post a lot less on here than I used to now you’re on here, in all honesty.

by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Dec 2019, 9:31 pm

I actually got on well with SS who is a pretty nice guy, we have also spoken via PM. I probably did annoy him a few times, but I annoy everybody. Welsh posters are not the reason he decides not to post here any more, that I know for a fact. I'll give you a clue though; his is the same reason that a lot of Welsh posters left this site.

Anyone else getting sick of these pretentious and false accusations from miaow? I suppose the mods are tired of him too given that he reports "I don't think said player from West Wales is any good." as a WUM. Some people need their heads checked.

by Stone Motif Sun 01 Dec 2019, 9:32 pm

miaow wrote:Lots of projection there. Sorry you feel schooled, Stone.

Again, completely expected response. Did you even watch either game?

by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Dec 2019, 9:49 pm

I still think a major overhaul is needed in some shape or form btw, so no rethinking from me. The only way to overhaul this is to inject the CVC cash straight to the regions, maybe allow them a cap of 7M. Irish teams seem to be reaping the benefits of a large squad. If this goes through then I'd like to see the money used to bring home Welsh players because it would be pretty difficult to attract anyone else. If we can then yeah let's also bring in quality NWQ players, we all know the benefits of that.

by LordDowlais Mon 02 Dec 2019, 8:57 am

The Oracle wrote:
miaow wrote:Perhaps just calm down, Stone, and realise that, yes, the Ospreys are still a better team with better players than the Dragons. There's only one person being petty and parochial about the two regions and it's not me. I have no dog in the fight.

Says the guy/girl who jumps straight on the Dragons’ thread to highlight the ‘shambolic’ result without contributing anything else of note previously. Hmmm. Seems pretty parochial to me. There’s a core of you - LD, Stefan, PhillBB and you - probably the same account actually, that all exhibit the same typical small minded Welsh rugby fan mentality. All cut from the same cloth. Want to see others fail so it makes your own team look better and they can pick up the ‘spoils’ of any team that goes under. As I posted elsewhere, shame. We’d be much better if we were united.

Oh for god sake. Rolling Eyes

Seriously, there is a group of Dragons fans on this forum that have a serious chip on their collective shoulders.

I do not criticise Dragons, because they are Dragons, I criticise them because they have been poorly run since their inception. The same with all the regions, I do not single out Dragons.

Yet here you are with your rhetoric, yet again. You, stone, risca, mikey, to paraphrase what you have said, are all cut from the same cloth. All of you have a problem with the WRU, all of you have a problem with Scrum V, all of you have a problem with WOL and so on......

Nothing is ever the fault of your beloved regions, it's always the big bad WRU are shafting you. The truth is, none of the people who run the regions are professional enough in the rugby world to do so. They are money men with big ego's.

That was the way to do things in Wales back in the day, run a business, make yourself a lot of money, and then go and buy a rugby club, think Bryn Cartwright in the film Twin Town. The game has moved on from then, yet the money men have not.

I was right behind regionalism, I was a season ticket holder with the Warriors, when they went, I got over it, and started going to Cardiff with the old man, and I was even going to Rodney Parade when the the fixture took my fancy. But now, fans like me are turning away, people are fed up. Just because I say things as they are, and do not cherry coat the situation pro rugby in Wales finds itself, it does not make me small minded.

It's people like you who need to take their heads out of the sand. You all need to start to admit the stark truth that is starring us all in the face, and start admitting that putting the league on a totally obscure pay per view channel is not good for the league in Wales, we need to admit that the regions are being run by people who do not have a clue on how to run a professional sports enterprise.

Saying things how they are, does not make me small minded.

by Stone Motif Mon 02 Dec 2019, 9:48 am

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
miaow wrote:Perhaps just calm down, Stone, and realise that, yes, the Ospreys are still a better team with better players than the Dragons. There's only one person being petty and parochial about the two regions and it's not me. I have no dog in the fight.

Says the guy/girl who jumps straight on the Dragons’ thread to highlight the ‘shambolic’ result without contributing anything else of note previously. Hmmm. Seems pretty parochial to me. There’s a core of you - LD, Stefan, PhillBB and you - probably the same account actually, that all exhibit the same typical small minded Welsh rugby fan mentality. All cut from the same cloth. Want to see others fail so it makes your own team look better and they can pick up the ‘spoils’ of any team that goes under. As I posted elsewhere, shame. We’d be much better if we were united.

Oh for god sake.

Seriously, there is a group of Dragons fans on this forum that have a serious chip on their collective shoulders.

I do not criticise Dragons, because they are Dragons, I criticise them because they have been poorly run since their inception. The same with all the regions, I do not single out Dragons.

Yet here you are with your rhetoric, yet again. You, stone, risca, mikey, to paraphrase what you have said, are all cut from the same cloth. All of you have a problem with the WRU, all of you have a problem with Scrum V, all of you have a problem with WOL and so on......

Nothing is ever the fault of your beloved regions, it's always the big bad WRU are shafting you. The truth is, none of the people who run the regions are professional enough in the rugby world to do so. They are money men with big ego's.

That was the way to do things in Wales back in the day, run a business, make yourself a lot of money, and then go and buy a rugby club, think Bryn Cartwright in the film Twin Town. The game has moved on from then, yet the money men have not.

I was right behind regionalism, I was a season ticket holder with the Warriors, when they went, I got over it, and started going to Cardiff with the old man, and I was even going to Rodney Parade when the the fixture took my fancy. But now, fans like me are turning away, people are fed up. Just because I say things as they are, and do not cherry coat the situation pro rugby in Wales finds itself, it does not make me small minded.

It's people like you who need to take their heads out of the sand. You all need to start to admit the stark truth that is starring us all in the face, and start admitting that putting the league on a totally obscure pay per view channel is not good for the league in Wales, we need to admit that the regions are being run by people who do not have a clue on how to run a professional sports enterprise.

Saying things how they are, does not make me small minded.

Wow.

by **RDW** Mon 02 Dec 2019, 10:01 am

We are being inundated with reports all from the same group of people - one faction reporting the other then vice versa. It's getting out of control so if things can't be debated in a civil way we have no choice but to lock threads, starting with this one.

Many strikes have been handed out over the last few weeks with people working their way through the temporary ban process. We really don't want to ban people believe it or not, but this can't go on.

by **RDW** Tue 03 Dec 2019, 2:56 pm

Thread unlocked by request, on the premise that things don't immediately go back to the same bickering...

Again this includes calling out other posters as being supposed WUMS - we regularly note that this often causes more disruption to threads than the apparently Wumming itself.

Also a gentle reminder about our 3 strikes and temporary ban system, which has been called into play a lot recently

by mikey_dragon Tue 03 Dec 2019, 3:05 pm

Halfpenny out of contract at the end of this season. Scarlets are rumoured to be in the mix for Liam Williams and could supposedly meet his wages with the WRU. I'm not sure how that works, still, they keep chopping and changing the way players are paid. I don't think they're NDCs any more, if anyone can shed some light? I'm not entirely sure how true the rumour is, but it still brings up the point of internationals wages.

As for Halfpenny, I think he's being phased out of the Wales team. If he is staying in Wales then I wouldn't mind him at Dragons, mostly because we need a good goal-kicker. I think Ospreys would want him too. Blues probably not.

by Guest Tue 03 Dec 2019, 3:37 pm

He looked good the other day for Wales. Seemed to run with the ball more than we saw under Gatland, which perhaps points at Gatland's tactics and orders rather than 1/2p not being a very good attacking player (a previous criticism). I think he'd still be able to command a top wage and top club in Europe so I don't think he'll end up at the Dragons. But agree it would be nice!

by mikey_dragon Tue 03 Dec 2019, 3:52 pm

I still think Halfpenny is a decent attacker, just not as good as Williams or McNicholl - both of whom will probably be in that jersey for Wales from now on. I think it's because he has become too slow, a result of bulking up to meet the demands of pro rugby. Yeah for that reason I think he'd go elsewhere, unless he comes to Dragons on 3-400K per year which isn't bad right. He'd be a great coup. If Ospreys were serious about wanting Williams then it's likely they could also get Halfpenny and he would be slightly cheaper. Regional movement is good sometimes, something I got criticised for bringing up despite the fact it's happened previously.

by Stone Motif Tue 03 Dec 2019, 4:10 pm

No more NDCs there is a banding system in place which as a current Team Wales player and former Lion makes 1/2p one of them in the £400k bracket. Be a very bad bit of business for any region except the Scarlets if they don't get Williams.

by mikey_dragon Tue 03 Dec 2019, 4:13 pm

But do those teams who have more higher paid internationals get more money from the WRU?

by **RiscaGame** Tue 03 Dec 2019, 4:18 pm

Halfpenny would be a good addition, but I am not sure we will go for him. Assuming we are offloading Moriarty, obviously we have budget and we would be sorting an area (back three) we have looked pretty light in thus far with injuries. That said, we have also looked light in the front five, so that is the area we need to target. I am content with Davies as a goalkicker tbh and would like us to get a Nansen type lock (who we can keep fit) and at least one prop.

by Guest Tue 03 Dec 2019, 5:16 pm

Halfpenny won't leave. He fits in well. Great kicking boot, takes the pressure off Patchell. His boot wins games. No need for him to leave. Liam will more likely be an addition rather than a replacement.

by thebandwagonsociety Tue 03 Dec 2019, 6:28 pm

Instead of seeking to bring average WQ players back into the Regions from primarily England, I'd think Wales would be far better to focus on bringing through youth. How are the underage sides doing these days? Let the mediocrity away.

by mikey_dragon Tue 03 Dec 2019, 7:29 pm

I'm not sure Halfpenny will leave, but it's possible. It is also likely that Owen Williams will be making his way back. Not sure who to, he's on good money at Glaws despite being not supposedly worth it, so would probably be okay with a pay cut. I'm with you Risca on getting an extra LH and lock, or two. If we could offload Nansen then that might be an option - he's too injured.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Instead of seeking to bring average WQ players back into the Regions from primarily England, I'd think Wales would be far better to focus on bringing through youth. How are the underage sides doing these days? Let the mediocrity away.

Ummm, which players are average? We all need a few that are good, but not quite good enough to be regulars for Wales. The reason for targeting WQ players is because of how difficult it would be to target NWQ players.

We often do bring through youth and have a few gems waiting to come through, but it's not good coming through into an amateur set-up and loser environment now is it. That won't be good for their development. IMO we aren't producing enough quality back 3 players, fly-halves, hooker or lock forwards. This could be alleviated somewhat with guys like Dewi Lake coming through at Ospreys. We've also a good wing prospect at Glaws (Rees-Zammit), and a fly-half at Bristol (Lloyd) - both are 18 I think and are playing premiership rugby. Dragons supposedly have a good lock in their academy. Scarlets have two locks but will probably ease them in, which has to be partly the reason they signed one Fijian lock, and one Tongan lock. If all Regions can actually get NWQ players then that would also be helpful; thinking of guys like Shoeman, VDW and VDM at Edinburgh.

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