Scotland 6 Nations Thread

[Highland Shaun]

First topic message reminder :

With the 6N fast approaching, I thought I'd be the first to start a thread for it, my team being Scotland because its my nationality lol.

First of all, we know that Danny Wilson won't be coaching as he's off to coach Glasgow plus there are rumours of Matt Taylor the assistant going with Rennie to Australia so that leaves a couple of vacancies available, hopefully after the 6N, the main head coach one will be available too, which I would suspect Richard Cockerill would be the outright fav for, but that's a topic for after the 6N.

So, who would you like to see be in our 6N squad, are there any new caps that are likely, are there any players possibly getting recalls or would we likely see any younger players get a shot.

This is the place to discuss so go ahead .

[bsando]

Yeah true and the fact Steyn has 0 caps could be a bold move to have him starting against Ireland now I think of it. Kinghorn would be the sensible choice if Maitland isn't going to be involved.

[NeilyBroon]

If anyone was gonna replace Maitland I think it would be Steyn personally. He's been doing well on the wing for Glasgow. I know he's played centre as well for them but I think he's better suited on the wing. Just my opinion.

I'd be happy with Steyn, but I think Kinghorn is the first cab off the rank.

Steyn would give us a physical presence in the back 3 though which could be useful, particularly if we go for a lightweight midfield of Hutchinson-Jones.

This is why I reckon it may be worth going horses for courses this tournament. Jinkier against Wales and Ireland, heavier against England and France. Either way the 23 should stay as close to the same as possible with any rotations happening from the bench to allow for continuity.

[RDW]

Pretty much every team has a physical presence in midfield:

Ireland - Henshaw/Aki
Wales - Parkes
France - one of many players!
England - Tuilagi

This is why I'd be concerned about Hutchinson-Jones, neither of which are overly physical.

[NeilyBroon]

Pretty much every team has a physical presence in midfield:

Ireland - Henshaw/Aki
Wales - Parkes
France - one of many players!
England - Tuilagi

This is why I'd be concerned about Hutchinson-Jones, neither of which are overly physical.

I reckon Scott must be first choice at the moment at IC who, whilst not huge, has a good physicality and step. One of Hutchinson and Jones to go outside. Johnson to come on against tiring legs.

Running around them has to be our main goal but that's why I think it's important we have multiple midfield axis so they keep guessing. So with that in mind:

Scott-Hutch with Jones on the bench to replace Scott when the game opens up.
Johnson-Jones with Hutchinson/Scott covering from the bench
Scott-Jones
Johnson-Scott (with Scott playing OC, he's proved handy in that position at club in the past)

The Johnson Jones is tempting to run with due to their familiarity with each other. However I feel like Scott slots in well with most centres, he certainly did when he played for Scotland with Dunbar.

Alternatively Steyn on the bench or wing to allow for rotation or you gamble and replace Hastings on the bench with a centre, though that leaves us with no FH cover.

[Tramptastic]

I think you are right about Scott blending well with most other centres, he's very physical and brings a bit of solidity that we sometimes lack.

I'd start Scott with Shug, Hutchinson to bench as he can cover 12 or 13, depending who's knackered/injured/not playing well.

But then Hutchinson, at international level, is a total unknown so teams might not do their analysis quite as much as they would for, say, Shug

[RDW]

It may have been because he was off form at the time, but Jones has never really brought anything off the bench. For us to get the best out of him IMO we need him to start and our attacking plays tee him up as a strike runner.

Hutchinson to me is more suited to making an impact off the bench just now, and has the advantage that he can cover a lot of the out field back positions.

[NeilyBroon]

It may have been because he was off form at the time, but Jones has never really brought anything off the bench. For us to get the best out of him IMO we need him to start and our attacking plays tee him up as a strike runner.

Hutchinson to me is more suited to making an impact off the bench just now, and has the advantage that he can cover a lot of the out field back positions.

I wouldn't complain at Jones starting for sure. We need someone who will make the opposition sweat a little and who they will be keenly marking. To allow others to break the line effectively. Hogg at his best does that and Jones has been making some exceptional support plays leading to scores recently, much like DT at his best.

On the subject of big centres earlier, Aki doesn't make me nervous. Henshaw and Ringrose would make me more nervous to be honest. I think Aki has long since been exposed as a poor man's Tuilagi.

[123456789.]

For those worried that Hutchinson is too light weight, he lined up at 12 against Leicester with Tuilagi starting at centre and did alright.
The big difference being that Northampton has Big T on the wing where we will probably have Maitland and Graham.
Nonetheless I think Hutchinson ability with the ball would fit perfectly off of Russell. The amount of Northampton tries that stem from him offloading the ball intelligently in the midfield is phenomenal. If we can get our strike runners coming off him and Horne coming off them we’re in business. Having a ball playe at 12 takes the focus off Russell a tad more as well.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Townsend goes down that route at all. He was desperate to get Hastings and Russell together and it just didn’t click for one reason or another.

[NeilyBroon]

For those worried that Hutchinson is too light weight, he lined up at 12 against Leicester with Tuilagi starting at centre and did alright.
The big difference being that Northampton has Big T on the wing where we will probably have Maitland and Graham.
Nonetheless I think Hutchinson ability with the ball would fit perfectly off of Russell. The amount of Northampton tries that stem from him offloading the ball intelligently in the midfield is phenomenal. If we can get our strike runners coming off him and Horne coming off them we’re in business. Having a ball playe at 12 takes the focus off Russell a tad more as well.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Townsend goes down that route at all. He was desperate to get Hastings and Russell together and it just didn’t click for one reason or another.

I think the main problem with that pairing always was that Hastings had rarely played at 12 during his career. To ask someone so new to the international set up and early in their pro career to swap positions was a massive gamble anyway. That being said he was exceptional when he had to fill in at fullback!

I agree though, it could work provided Hutch is solid defensively in that channel, size doesn't matter if you chop them round the ankles.

[BigGee]

Hutch plays 12 as often as he does 13 for Saints and they mix and match quite a bit during the games no matter which number they are carrying on their backs. He sometimes comes in at first receiver with Biggar outside him, just to cause even more confusion in the opposition defence.

Saints score a lot of tries and Hutchy is definitely a Toonie kind of player, it is hard to see that he won't be involved.

A lot might as well depend on what kind of defensive system Tandy comes up with and who is seen as being the pivot in that. That is probably more likely to win us games, we know we can score tries but can we stop others scoring them is the question?

[EWT Spoons]

Interesting theory in Scottish Rugby blog, that Tagive has been brought into the squad as effectively a training tool. He's apparently the same build as Stockdale so is being used to get Darcy training against someone of a similar size that he's likely to be playing in the first game.

Given Tagive is no more than an ok club player and is 28 (29 right after the 6n) so not one for the future this does make an element of sense

[RDW]

Does he need to be an actual member of the squad to do that though? He could easily be brought in to training just to run as opposition.

[EWT Spoons]

I'd suspect if he's not called up, then Glasgow will keep him back with the rest of their team. Plus what incentive does he have to agree to being a glorified tackle bag. At least this way he can be part of the initial squad, and he'll think he's good enough to get a place in the matchday squad, so there is an incentive to be involved.

[RDW]

I just think they want to have a closer look at him in that environment - I can't imagine he'll play in the 6N other than through injury. although it's not a glowing recommendation that Grandad DTH has been getting picked over him recently!

[EWT Spoons]

Aye could be that too, just thought it was an interesting take, that could have some merit.

[BigGee]

I just think they want to have a closer look at him in that environment - I can't imagine he'll play in the 6N other than through injury. although it's not a glowing recommendation that Grandad DTH has been getting picked over him recently!

I think he has probably been picked ahead of DTH when both have been available, he was just settling into the team when he twanged a hammy and has only just made it back. Hopefully he will start this weekend and we can see what he can do.

I don't think he is just in there for tackling practice, he probably is our next best available winger and he is a big, fast powerful runner.

He is very unlikely to play, certainly in the first two games but maybe Toonie might feel he can experiment a bit in the Italy game, especially if we have some points on the board by then

[EWT Spoons]

I'd be amazed if Tagive made it past the first cull.

Could be wrong, but I'd have all the other wingers (and kinghorn) ahead of him. He's barely played for Glasgow, at any point over the last 3 years, and he's only had a handful of games this year.

I don't think he's shown anything to date to suggest he's better than any of the other options.

[RDW]

I'd be amazed if Tagive made it past the first cull.

Could be wrong, but I'd have all the other wingers (and kinghorn) ahead of him.  He's barely played for Glasgow, at any point over the last 3 years, and he's only had a handful of games this year.

I don't think he's shown anything to date to suggest he's better than any of the other options.  

Agreed. He was alright in his 4 or so games this season, that's about it!

[NeilyBroon]

Maybe a bit harsh on Tagive considering he's not had a chance to play but agree he's third choice.

Perhaps he'll do a Marfo and burst out of obscurity onto the international scene, although hopefully not fall back into obscurity. He's certainly got something about him when he has played, you feel he just needs a decent chance to show what he's made of. Much like Shug.

[BigGee]

The coaches do seem to love him, despite them knowing very little i guess! So he must be showing them something in training. They keep re signing him as well. Even this season Hughes has been bined over him.

It did seem his chances previously were affected by injury and not being SQ.

We do still need to see z big performance from him in a meaningful game though. That has not happend yet.

[RDW]

That's the point though Nelly - he's barely played to know if he is worth the step up. 

I wonder if Seymour is regretting his early retirement (not that he's been on much better form!)

[BigGee]

I think Tommy, without being a weatherman, knew which wah the wind was blowing (sorry Bob)

[EWT Spoons]

in 3+ years he's played in 10 games for Glasgow, scoring 3 tries. He might be amazing, but he's either the most injured man in history, or he's just an average player, who's been fairly cheap to keep on the books as emergency cover.

[tigertattie]

What was the name of the lad in the u20s that was utterly rapid? And where is he now?

I've done a jimbo and my mind is completely blank!

[BigGee]

What was the name of the lad in the u20s that was utterly rapid? And where is he now?

I've done a jimbo and my mind is completely blank!

Bit more detail Tattie, which U20s last years?

The last real speedster I remember in the U20s was Graham

[tigertattie]

That’s the issue Gee, can’t mind.

He was in the u20s in the last couple of seasons. Was a total speedster. I want to say he had one of those new age posh names like Finlay

[BigGee]

Lomond McPherson?

I remember the name, but don't rember the speed!

[NeilyBroon]

Wasnt logan trotter was it?

Just reading the squad from 2018... whatever happened to charlie chapman?

[tigertattie]

Wasnt logan trotter was it?

Just reading the squad from 2018... whatever happened to charlie chapman?

Alas no. Logan is a glider like Blair Kinghorn. Long rangey stride.

This fella was explosive pace like Hogg when he burst on the scene. Legs going at light speed.

It’s bloomin annoying me.

[Highland Shaun]

Who do you guys think will be the unlucky 10 that don't make the final 28 for the 6N, I presume Tagive will certainly be one of the unlucky 10?


Also, based on the 28 left in the squad, who would you pick in the match day 15 and bench for the Ireland game?

[RDW]

Wasnt logan trotter was it?

Just reading the squad from 2018... whatever happened to charlie chapman?

Alas no. Logan is a glider like Blair Kinghorn. Long rangey stride.

This fella was explosive pace like Hogg when he burst on the scene. Legs going at light speed.

It’s bloomin annoying me.

There's this guy called Darcy Graham..

[NeilyBroon]

Hard to say to be honest. If this is Toonie trying to make a statement I actually expect barry mcguigan to be shipped off and not tagive. I reckon a few will be given back to Edinburgh too in key positions.

McGuigan
Gordon
Haining or CdP
Toolis
Pyrgos
Steyn (unlucky again)
Sutherland
Berghan
Hutchinson/Jones (one of the centres will be surplus to requirements, Toonie wont ditch Harris - he'll either stick to his guns in his criticism of Jones and drop him at risk of backlash from the media, or use hutchinsons intl. inexperience as an excuse and he falls victim again until summer tour)
Bradbury (This really is a wild guess but I reckon toonie will look to try something like Crosbie at 8 or bring in one of Haining/CdP there. Bradbury misses out because he's a lazy boy and cockers is demanding more players)

So trying my best to fit in with Toonies thought process the Ireland XV:
Dell
Brown
Nel
Gray
Cummings
Ritchie
Watson
CdP

Price (I think Toonie has a bias for this pairing because of familiarity but could be wrong)
Russell
Graham
Johnson
Jones
Maitland (he'll play even if he does 80 mins for Sarries)
Hogg (c)

Subs
Bhatti
Fagerson
Craig
Crosbie
Horne
Hastings
Scott

[tigertattie]

Nah was after Darcy. Darcy has been in the senior team for a few years now

[bsando]

It's going to be a strange start to the tournament. Pre world cup you knew who Townsend's favourites were, but most of those players aren't in this squad apart from the ones who stepped up and performed.

Scotland vs Japan RWC Pool Match team sheet

Hogg; Seymour, Harris, Johnson, Graham, Russell, Laidlaw; Dell, Brown, Nel, Gilchrist, Gray, Bradbury, Ritchie, Thomson.

Replacements: McInally, Reid, Fagerson, Cummings, Wilson, G Horne, P Horne, Kinghorn.

That's 5 players who will definitely not feature against Ireland. Will their replacements actually offer something better? It is a brilliant opportunity for some of the new faces and those who are back in the fold to make a mark.

[NeilyBroon]

Definitely the hardest to predict. I'll be really frustrated if Toonie sticks with Harris because of his WC form. It's easy to stand out when your other options are poor.

The other positions the choices can only really be a positive step versus the world cup. Unless he pulls a full tombola and decides Pyrgos is first choice SH - which even for Toonie I can't see him doing, although potentially I could see him benching Pyrgos (which would be a big mistake!).

One of Scott, Johnson or potentially Hutch for Peter Horne - all of whom have the football skills with less of the flakiness.

Wilson is a funny one. Whilst the replacements are undoubtedly better as individual players, Wilson seems to have quite a positive affect on the players around him and is invaluable for p*ssing off the opposition. That being said, we may concede less penalties... Watson or Ritchie will have to take that leadership role in the backrow/forwards. It would be good to see Haining get a shot, maybe against Italy. He's a big bruiser and is aggressive in the mould of G Graham, which is what we're lacking. Even if he doesn't make the WC in 2023 he could be a useful player to have around. Thomson I think is done, there's no way he's going to get any string of games or form with the amount he's injured. If it's not concussion it's something else, a shame we didn't really get to see him at his best. He's not young enough to pull off a CdP return and I wouldn't be surprised if he's forced to retire or is without club in the next year.

[RDW]

Would Hutchinson/Harris work...?

Hutch to be the playmaker than brings the back 3 into the game, Harris to provide the solidity and defensive organisation.

I'll get my coat...

[NeilyBroon]

Would Hutchinson/Harris work...?

Hutch to be the playmaker than brings the back 3 into the game, Harris to provide the solidity and defensive organisation.

I'll get my coat...

It could but I think we have better options for combos. Harris is solid enough and good at setting up opportunities through phase play but he's not much of a finisher other than that. All of our other options are finishers and are better at playing what's in front of them IMO.

That's not to say Harris is a bad option anymore, he's not, but I'm just getting flashbacks to Wales when him and Jones played together in the centres.

It's our defensive systems that are poor, not individual players. I think Toonie kept looking for the magic player who would solve all of our problems rather than confronting the issues with our structured play. Truth is we just don't seem to have defensive leaders and depend on the opposition ballsing up on their own merit or lack of.

[bsando]

That could be a really good centre partnership! Hutchinson has really silky hands. He seems like a player who can execute set moves with a lot of precision. Harris seems to have a very good engine, he constantly pops up in Gloucesters highlights getting stuck into rucks securing and allowing quick ball for their SH. That could be very useful in the 6N when you don't want ball carriers to be getting isolated.

[RDW]

Crosbie and Haining starting for Edinburgh. Bradbury and Ritchie listed as injured. Sutherland wins the bench spot which probably puts him in pole position for the Scotland bench.

Ricthie's lack of game time is a worry - he's played very little the last few months. McInally still injured and hasn't played for a while - probably means advantage Fraser Brown.

Matt Scott just not picked - read into that what you will (i.e. is he being lined up to start against Ireland...)

[tigertattie]

Cockers isnt the kind of guy who will play someone (Matt Scott) just because the SRU want him to get game time.

Matt Scott not playing for Edinburgh just means he's not playing for edinburgh. Of course he could be getting "rested" for Scotland but you just can't tell at this moment in time.

[EWT Spoons]

Kinghorn also isn't involved. I think Cockers is likely just rotating players against a team we should comfortably beat

[123456789.]

Harris will be selected. There's something about him that Toonie adores. I don't think he's a bad player. If Jones were to fall injured and Hutchinson were to fall injured. I'd be more than content seeing that Bennett and Harris would be competing for a place in the team. However Harris is not as good as Johnson, Jones and Hutchinson. It works in Harris' favour that our options on the wing aren't brilliant past the first choices. That means Townsend can stick his head in the sand and shout repeatedly "but...but...he plays wing too".

I am wondering if the players that will drop out are already relatively predetermined. By my count we have nine players not based in Scotland. I do wonder if some of the players that we weren't expecting are, in effect, filler until the foreign based players come back in. Townsend saying the squad will be cut probably just amounts to players returning to Glasgow and Edinburgh when the rest become available. The English based players being Hogg, Harris, Maitland, Hutchinson, McGuigan, Dell, Craig, Du Preez and then Finn Russell in France as well. In the back three; Tagive, Steyn, Graham and Kinghorn are based at home, Hogg, Maitland and McGuigan abroad. If the reduced squad is 32 you'd expect a similar break-up to the world cup team where Townsend took five out and out back three players and Harris as extra cover from a squad of 31. In which case it would be no surprise to see Steyn and Tagive drop out when the Premiership based players come back in. That Maitland is in the squad and Taylor isn't is good news for Harris and Hutchinson. Townsend seems to have calculated that he won't have a chance to assess the English players he is unsure on prior to the tournament and left them out accordingly. Harris also covers the back three so I expect him and Hutchinson to make the squad. Johnson has been a mainstay of the side in the last year so I would imagine that last centre spot is between Scott and Jones. Which one is taken will give us an idea as to whether Hutchinson is considered a 12 or 13. I'd bet on it being Jones taken ahead of Scott simply on the basis that Scott hasn't really featured under Townsend. At fly-half it'll be Hastings and Russell, and scrum-half will be the three already picked.

In the pack he took five back-rows for the world cup: Barclay, Watson, Wilson, Ritchie and Thomson. The only survivors from that cohort are Watson and Ritchie, both of whom are likely picks for the match-day squad. Leaving three places to fight for between Bradbury, Du Preez, Gordon, Crosbie and Haining. I'd but Bradbury as the most likely to go from that group, closely followed by Du Preez (following on from the logic of Townsend only picking English players he's fairly convinced will make the reduced squad). Effectively leaving a last slot between Gordon, Crosbie and Haining. Ritchie and Watson both cover openside. Ritchie and Bradbury offer different options at blindside. Du Preez and Bradbury are both at home at blindside and eight. Which suggests the race for that last spot is fairly open between Gordon, Crosbie and Haining. If I were to bet I'd go with Crosbie going given his prior involvement. In the second-row four went to the world cup. Gilchrist and Gray are nailed on. I expect Cummings is likely to be involved again on the back of fairly strong performances. I'd say Toolis will probably hold onto his place. If one of the starting three drops out of the picture before the England game then Toolis is the safer option and knows the lineout calls. By the time the third round rolls around you'd expect Richie Gray and Skinner to be back in the picture. In the pack we took eight to the world cup and I would imagine they will take nine this time around to avoid Berghan covering both sides. So you'd expect Dell, Bhatti, Sutherland, Brown, MacInally, Turner, Fagerson, Nel and Berghan to be kept around.

I think that leaves a squad of 32, I'm fairly confident that, if Townsend follows the same pattern as the World Cup squad, that'll be close to what we'll see. Alternatively, Townsend may decide that he doesn't need nine front rowers given there won't be the same number of games in short periods of time. Still that would only see an extra two-three players distributed elsewhere. If that's the case I'd expect that Sutherland and Berghan will be returned to Edinbugh and Steyn and Haining to be kept on.

So I would guess at a post-cull squad of:

Hogg
Graham
Maitland
Kinghorn
McGuigan

Jones
Hutchinson
Johnson
Harris

Russell
Hastings

Horne
Price
Pyrgos

Dell
Bhatti
Sutherland

McInally
Brown
Turner

Fagerson
Nel
Berghan

Gray
Gilchrist
Cummings
Toolis

Bradbury
Watson
Ritchie
Du Preez
Crosbie

[tigertattie]

Trying to guess what Toonie is thinking is like trying to guess what Gordie Reid would do if he had to chose between saving a katsu chicken curry or a box of chips from a burning house

Just as Gordie is likley to stay in the burning house and eat the curry before reducing the chips, Toonie could turn round and select Harris to play hooker.

Numbers’ logic does indeed make sense. But Toonie does not

[RDW]

Tagive isn't playing again this weekend - he's really not being selected on recent form!

[NeilyBroon]

Theyre just keeping him fresh to be Stockdale in contact training

[bsando]

Quite a few Scots/potential Scots lining up for their respective clubs for this weekends European fixtures.

SHC - Lyon

Russell - R92

Maitland, Taylor - Saracens

Dingwall, Hutchinson (bench) - Northampton  

Alex Craig - Gloucester (Harris ruled out)

Redpath (bench) - Sale

Laidlaw (bench) - Clermont

Weir, Du Preez - Worcester 

Hogg - Exeter

Dunbar - Brive

Hughes, Kerr (Bench) - Leicester

Dell (Bench) - London Irish

Glasgow / Edinburgh

[123456789.]

Is Fraser Dingwall Scottish? He's another player that could really add to the mix at centre. It beggars belief that we are not that long past playing Graeme Morrison and Sean Lamont together at centre. To now have Hutchinson, Jones, Johnson, Harris, Scott, Bennett, Dunbar, Dingwall, McDowall, Steyn and Taylor getting regular rugby at a good standard is remarkable. I'd even consider Grigg, Dean, Johnston and Taylor as better than De Luca, Di Rollo and Andy Craig. Makes it even baffling that we're only a few injuries from Tagive starting at wing. The fact we have next to no looseheads is equally confusing. Perhaps we ought to start a centre-prop conversion programme. I think Grigg (or perhaps Duncan Weir) would make passable options in the front row if given enough time and fast-food.

[NeilyBroon]

Is Fraser Dingwall Scottish? He's another player that could really add to the mix at centre. It beggars belief that we are not that long past playing Graeme Morrison and Sean Lamont together at centre. To now have Hutchinson, Jones, Johnson, Harris, Scott, Bennett, Dunbar, Dingwall, McDowall, Steyn and Taylor getting regular rugby at a good standard is remarkable. I'd even consider Grigg, Dean, Johnston and Taylor as better than De Luca, Di Rollo and Andy Craig. Makes it even baffling that we're only a few injuries from Tagive starting at wing. The fact we have next to no looseheads is equally confusing. Perhaps we ought to start a centre-prop conversion programme. I think Grigg (or perhaps Duncan Weir) would make passable options in the front row if given enough time and fast-food.

Perhaps it's time we retrain players like D'Arcy Rae who can't quite cut it at TH to move to the loose.

We also really need to be pushing players like Nicol and Thornton through on both sides. Once Kebble and Schoemann are inevitably capped we should be encouraging them to find clubs overseas or in the prem.

[BigGee]

Yes he is, has played age group rugby for us then as a lot of EQ players do now swaps to England U20s to make himself a more attractive contract option to English clubs.

A good player, but we are not exsctly short of good centres just now, one to keep sn eye on though along with Redpath jr, who has dropped significantly down the Sale pecking order this season.

Only on bench tomorrow despite them putting out s weakened team

In other news Tsgive listed as injured this weekend, which is msybe why not playing

[BigGee]

Thornton playing hooker in Super 6 this weekend, maybe they arr thinking of moving him somewhere else!

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