So... Ruiz vs Joshua II - How Will It Go??

First topic message reminder :

So the biggest heavyweight boxing upset in years gets its re-run this weekend. How do we all think it's going to go? Does Ruiz have AJ's number? Was it a blip? Does AJ have a better battle plan? Or is he "done" at the top table?

Here's how I see it: AJ had spent ages preparing for the massive cheating frame of Miller, and instead got a guy he thought he could easily thump out of there. He didn't do his homework. What he didn't take into consideration was that not only could Ruiz Jr bang a bit, but his boxing ability was much underrated, especially in the close exchanges. AJ knocked him down and when he went in for the kill, he got careless and forgot about useful stuff such as defence. Once Ruiz landed THAT punch, Joshua was scrambled and it was no real surprise that he couldn't recover.

One punch can change anything in heavyweight boxing - ask Luis Ortiz. In my eyes Joshua will have been working heavily on his defence and boxing from range. We all know that Joshua can bang quite a bit, he just has to use the right arsenal. He's done well to invoke the knowledge of Wladimir Klitschko, a master of fighting at range whilst protecting his suspect chin. I am expecting a long range fight from Joshua, keeping Ruiz's shorter frame at bay for longer periods, shoving the jab in his face and frustrating him. If it all goes according to plan, I think this bout could end up being like Lewis vs Tua, with the shorter fighter unable to put a big punch on his taller and rangier opponent. Don't be surprised to see AJ playing it safe - with good reason.

Ruiz of course will want to repeat what's happened before and may try to rush in and land one after a clinch. He can't win from range but he can certainly win a firefight - they both can. It's a fascinating rematch. Each fighter has something to prove. My only worry is that Ruiz has taken Joshua lightly as it may end in a painful early bath for him.

My prediction is that AJ will avenge his loss and in some style, which of course means that Ruiz will KO him again...    

What do you reckon??

You could answer a simple question for a change, I'm intrigued to see any fights that showcase Dubois as the best in the world, all I can see is a long list of journeyman.

Not sure of the relevance AJ has to that.

Take it out it’s absolutely disgusting

You've gone into full blown childish mode then, take it you've not seen any Dubois fights.

I'd be interested to know why you think that Hermy? Dubois hasn't faced any great competition, and whilst he has looked good, so did David Price.
I've got high hopes for the lad as I do think he could be a force in the future, at the moment though he's either being kept away from the upper tier OR he's not as good as we think he is and his trainers are keeping him away (I'm thinking the former tbh).

As for AJ, one loss, a smart rematch in which he never looked troubled at all and we're back to slagging the guy off..... and we wonder why up and coming boxers won't step up too a challenge

Seen two one against the African the one where it was a good little shootout and of course the last one the first really interesting fight of his career

I’d rather listen to a few people I respect who’ve seen him up close and say he’s maybe the hardest hitting British heavy they’ve seen than I would to you a joke of a pundit

Sorry Derby that was to your Soul Requiem..

So hard hitting that he couldn't stop or even drop Kevin Johnson, the same guy who blasted out in two rounds a few years prior.

Your alright bud :-)

I dunno if i'd say he's a particularly hard hitter (or harder than what most of the HW's have) but he has good power and he has a good skillset from what I can remember. (Honestly not trying to be disrespectful but I rarely remember any of his bouts).
There's deifinitely talent there and he could be one for the future, really needs to step it up now and if he can try and get in the ring as soon as with AJ
(Isn't DD the one that knocked him down in sparring and got told he couldn't mention it?)

Don’t see Joshua coming out of Usyk/Fury/Wider/Daniel without a loss

If he does then he can have all the plaudits he gets in my book

Till then he’s a fighter making a mint who’s yet to fight his four sternest tests

Think Usyk is still untested at this level and may be a bit too small.
Fury and Wilder are (and should be imo) tied up with sorting their rematch out which may turn into a trilogy which I don't think any of us will complain about (as long as they get a move on). after that it has to be the winner against AJ, although I think he beats Wilder quite easily Fury is no.1 in my book and will cause him massive problems (I don't like the guy but you cannot deny his skill).

I take the Wilder/AJ circus last year as 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, both camps at fault with it not happening but more the promoters fault, honestly don't think either would shy away from the other but the money men are worried about their cash cows going down the drain. (still don't see why we can't have a 35/35 split with the rest going to the winner and an automatic rematch clause with the same stipulations.)

Usyk and Dubois his sternest tests neither has done anything of note at Heavyweight.

We'll ignore he's beaten four of the current top ten as well as Wlad which is incidentally three more than anyone else in the division. Fury gets kudos for getting to Wlad first and drawing with Wilder but aside from Chisora has an empty record while Wilder has the Fury draw and two come from behind wins over Ortiz plus Stiverne.

The loss to Ruiz muddies the water but no one else in the division can compete with a resume of Wlad, Povetkin, Whyte, Ruiz and Joseph.

Never met him but I quite like Fury articulate good interviews no act. Like Dubois too nice respectful young man who could punch a hole in a brick wall

Usyk’s really grown on me might be too small as you say (or could be the best) but I bet you never gave Briedis a chance against Manny Charr either

Hope there’s a decisive winner in Fury/Wilder so we don’t need a trilogy. Fed up with the division moving at a snail’s pace

Soul Requiem wrote:Usyk and Dubois his sternest tests neither has done anything of note at Heavyweight.

We'll ignore he's beaten four of the current top ten as well as Wlad which is incidentally three more than anyone else in the division. Fury gets kudos for getting to Wlad first and drawing with Wilder but aside from Chisora has an empty record while Wilder has the Fury draw and two come from behind wins over Ortiz plus Stiverne.

The loss to Ruiz muddies the water but no one else in the division can compete with a resume of Wlad, Povetkin, Whyte, Ruiz and Joseph.

Fury might have something to say about that- Wladimir, Wilder and Del Boy compares favorably. The resumes look about level to me

Whyte a good win. But Wlad post Fury and his last fight. Povetkin seen better days. Ruiz out and out journeyman. Parker not allowed to fight on the inside

They could be stern tests later but there's a problem there as well,
AJ faces them now, beats them both and every man and dog says he cherry picked them at a time when they're not up to full grade heavyweights. Whatever he does he won't win with some people.
Think AJ definitely has the best CV of the 3 at the moment but you can't deny Fury's skill or Wilders power.
Alas boxing itself moves at a snail pace these days, think people should be fighting more and we should get rid of journeymen and just have boxers. Ridiculous how people turn up to lose
(good money for thme though)

Ruiz is an out and out journeyman but Chisora isn't?

Can’t agree with that about Usyk Derby he fights Usyk next it’s maximum respect all round Usyk unproven at heavyweight or not

I can’t argue though if you think he has the best resume. You could be right but it’s tight

Soul Requiem wrote:Ruiz is an out and out journeyman but Chisora isn't?

Very wrong on that I think to call Chisora a journey man. The man’s a war horse

I'd argue that Chisora fits the description of a journeyman far better than Ruiz Jr, one of them was at least for a short time a unified world champion.

Lucky punch

Right...

Have we got the makings of a rumble? Del Boy against Ruiz as chief support somewhere

I'll tell you what, that could be a fantastic fight. Possible last throw of the dice for Del Boy and Ruiz Jr showing he does deserve the 3rd fight and that he would have been much better if he'd have been fit.

He certainly doesn’t deserve a third fight on that effort which means somewhere down the line he’ll probably get one. Maybe when it’s time to fight Daniel

Yep... Ruiz vs Chisora, Whyte, or Parker (again) would be a good match-up!

I think Ruiz definietely should have to show the fans (and the promoters) that he's going to take it seriously again and get himself into contention. I wouldn't mind seeing him in with Whyte BUT I do think Dillion deserves a title shot sooner rather than later (against Wilder)

Tyson Fury had all the belts after beating one man on points - Wladimir Klitschko, in Klitschko's back yard. Then Fury's mental health issues surfaced and he became a fatman and gave up.

Deontay Wilder has picked up the WBC title and has beaten everyone put in front of him. Everyone he has faced professionally he has either knocked out or knocked down. He has been labelled the most devastating single punch puncher in boxing history.

Anthony Joshua has picked up four world titles WBA, IBF, WBO, IBO - and has beaten everyone he has faced professionally. Many of his fights are associated with mandatories for the various belts. He was knocked out by Ruiz but has since remodelled himself to win again. It has been said that before the Ruiz fight he had undiagnosed health issues that made him gas out in fights. Although Joshua won't say what the issue was it seems to have been diet related (maybe he has some sort of gluten intolerance?). Following his victory over Klitschko his next few fights were less impressive and some claimed his body was built for bodybuilding rather than fighting. Ruiz called him robotic - seemed to have exploited and made evident all of Joshua's vulnerabilities in the first fight. In the second fight Joshua improved dramatically in terms of stamina and movement but Ruiz became a fatman for that fight and question remarks remain regarding Joshua's chin and skill set. Joshua is not the finished article.

Then there is Tyson Fury. He seems to have a very high ring IQ, is very difficult to hit, but sometimes seems to get lazy or lose his mind a little in the ring. He was in an awful physical shape when he met Deontay Wilder but in general outboxed him, but was knocked down twice. In the second knock down some claim he got a slow count. Tyson Fury is bipolar and has indicated 2020 will be his last year in boxing.

There are several other players to be considered. Ruiz let himself down in the Joshua rematch and deservedly lost. However if he really can knuckle down again and lose about two stone of weight then maybe he could be more than a one fight wonder. He seems to have the strongest head/chin/neck out there.

No name Bertie wrote:Tyson Fury had all the belts after beating one man on points - Wladimir Klitschko, in Klitschko's back yard.  Then Fury's mental health issues surfaced and he became a fatman and gave up.

Deontay Wilder has picked up the WBC title and has beaten everyone put in front of him. Everyone he has faced professionally he has either knocked out or knocked down.  He has been labelled the most devastating single punch puncher in boxing history.

Anthony Joshua has picked up four world titles WBA, IBF, WBO, IBO - and has beaten everyone he has faced professionally.  Many of his fights are associated with mandatories for the various belts.  He was knocked out by Ruiz but has since remodelled himself to win again.  It has been said that before the Ruiz fight he had undiagnosed health issues that made him gas out in fights.  Although Joshua won't say what the issue was it seems to have been diet related (maybe he has some sort of gluten intolerance?).  Following his victory over Klitschko his next few fights were less impressive and some claimed his body was built for bodybuilding rather than fighting.  Ruiz called him robotic - seemed to have exploited and made evident all of Joshua's vulnerabilities in the first fight.  In the second fight Joshua improved dramatically in terms of stamina and movement but Ruiz became a fatman for that fight and question remarks remain regarding Joshua's chin and skill set.  Joshua is not the finished article.

Then there is Tyson Fury.  He seems to have a very high ring IQ, is very difficult to hit, but sometimes seems to get lazy or lose his mind a little in the ring.  He was in an awful physical shape when he met Deontay Wilder but in general outboxed him, but was knocked down twice.  In the second knock down some claim he got a slow count.  Tyson Fury is bipolar and has indicated 2020 will be his last year in boxing.  

There are several other players to be considered.  Ruiz let himself down in the Joshua rematch and deservedly lost.  However if he really can knuckle down again and lose about two stone of weight then maybe he could be more than a one fight wonder.   He seems to have the strongest head/chin/neck out there.

No he hasn't.

Soul Requiem wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:Deontay Wilder has picked up the WBC title and has beaten everyone put in front of him ...

No he hasn't.

Deontay Wilder has picked up the WBC title and has defended his title against everyone put in front of him ...

The issue with Tyson Fury is his focus and mindset. Wilder has shown Fury can be knocked down heavily. The question in the rematch is going to be can Fury avoid being tagged again.

On a positive note Joshua looked much more like what you’d call an athlete more lithe his power still there didn’t stop him but Ruiz got a chin. That means stay at this weight and just work on his timing he’ll be able to get more power shots off at this weight. We know the extra weight does nothing for the chin if you haven’t got one

If I was Anthony I’d work on his speed hone the speed maybe he can beat Daniel to the punish. If he can’t it could be problems

Herman Jaeger wrote:If I was Anthony I’d work on his speed hone the speed maybe he can beat Daniel to the punish. If he can’t it could be problems

Question for the knowledgable boxing fans out there, that I have always wondered.

Why is Anthony Joshua not on the WBC rankings? Given he is not the champion, I wondered if he would ever become the mandatory challenger for the WBC title. And vice versa for Wilder and AJ's belts?

Afro wrote:Question for the knowledgable boxing fans out there, that I have always wondered.

Why is Anthony Joshua not on the WBC rankings? Given he is not the champion, I wondered if he would ever become the mandatory challenger for the WBC title. And vice versa for Wilder and AJ's belts?

Governing bodies don't rank other champions.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Afro wrote:Question for the knowledgable boxing fans out there, that I have always wondered.

Why is Anthony Joshua not on the WBC rankings? Given he is not the champion, I wondered if he would ever become the mandatory challenger for the WBC title. And vice versa for Wilder and AJ's belts?

Governing bodies don't rank other champions.

Fair enough. Thanks.

Is there a reason for that?

Yeah because they don't want to promote other organisations champions AND it allows them to let their champions not have to face who could be the best in the division. Hence why titles don't really mean much anymore

Herman Jaeger wrote:
As for at range well isn’t Usyk supposed to be quicker and slicker than Joshua so why is it a given that Joshua outboxes him?

A handy reach and height advantage was my (admittedly simplistic) rationale..

There is a huge question mark over Usyk at heavyweight level.  The few cruiserweights that successfully transitioned to heavyweight did so at a much earlier age than Usyk and in a period where steroids and growth hormone use was easier to get away with.

Usyk turns 33 next month.  He looked pedestrian against journeyman Chazz Witherspoon who took the fight on a few days notice.  

Usyk clearly has moved up to heavyweight because that is where the money is.   He is hoping to fight targeted heavyweights where he can develop a plan to beat them - through using what he hopes to be a superior speed and skill set.  I believe someone like a Ruiz Junior - if he comes in two stone lighter - would just walk through Usyk and knock him out.  I think Usyk will try to make a targetted smash and grab raid in the heavyweight division.  He won't last long if he faces a succession of highly competent heavyweights.  That is my opinion.  He might prove me wrong but I doubt it.