Wales - 2019/20 - Pivac, Grand Slams, and beyond - Post-RWC '19 and 2020 6Ns build up

First topic message reminder :

Wales' 2020 Six Nations Squad:

Forwards (21)

Rhys Carre (Saracens) (6 Caps)
Rob Evans (Scarlets) (36 Caps)
Wyn Jones (Scarlets) (22 Caps)
Elliot Dee (Dragons) (29 Caps)
Ryan Elias (Scarlets) (9 Caps)
Ken Owens (Scarlets) (73 Caps)
Leon Brown (Dragons) (6 Caps)
WillGriff John (Sale) (*uncapped)
Dillon Lewis (Blues) (22 Caps)
Jake Ball (Scarlets) (42 Caps)
Adam Beard (Ospreys) (20 Caps)
Seb Davies (Blues) (7 Caps)
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) (134 Caps) (CAPTAIN)
Will Rowlands (Wasps) (*uncapped)
Cory Hill (Dragons) (24 Caps)
Aaron Shingler (Scarlets) (26 Caps)
Aaron Wainwright (Dragons) (18 Caps)
Taulupe Faletau (Bath) (72 Caps)
Ross Moriarty (Dragons) (41 Caps)
Josh Navidi (Blues) (23 Caps)
Justin Tipuric (Osprey) (72 Caps)

Backs (17)

Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (51 Caps)
Rhys Webb (Toulon) (31 Caps)
Tomos Williams (Blues) (16 Caps)
Dan Biggar (Northampton) (79 Caps)
Owen Williams (Gloucester) (3 Caps)
Jarrod Evans (Blues) (3 Caps)
Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets) (25 Caps)
Nick Tompkins (Saracens) (*uncapped)
Owen Watkin (Ospreys) (22 Caps)
George North (Ospreys) (91 Caps)
Josh Adams (Blues) (21 Caps)
Owen Lane (Blues) (2 Caps)
Johnny McNicholl (Scarlets) (*uncapped)
Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester) (*uncapped)
Jonah Holmes (Leicester Tigers) (3 Caps)
Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets) (85 Caps)
Liam Williams (Saracens) (62 Caps)

mikey_dragon wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:And back to the rugby. Lots of suggestions that due to a grandma born in Wales we may see Nick Tompkins of Sarries called up.

That’s certainly a shock. Seems very highly regarded, so this could be great work by Pivac.

Well that’s crazy, and I had no idea. I hope he’s a 13! 

Goes to show that we aren’t producing enough good centres with Parkes poached, with Halaholo and Tompkins to come.

We are producing lots of centres but have had a bit of a failure with the batch after JD2. They all get injured too much.

Cory Allen and Tyler Morgan have spent more time in hospital than on the pitch.

Well it was always coming wasn't it.... when the three year residency hit the fan. GrannyGate was always going to be the next entry point beyond the reaches of WR rules.
I'll bet the Ancestry sites have been inundated in recent years by curious Rugby Union officials looking for wandering branches.

maestegmafia wrote:
We are producing lots of centres but have had a bit of a failure with the batch after JD2. They all get injured too much.

Cory Allen and Tyler Morgan have spent more time in hospital than on the pitch.

Allen wasn?t exactly a firecracker. Morgan looked very good when he was young but seemed to stagnate, and then regress. Injuries certainly played a factor. We just aren?t producing them like other teams do, which is why I?m for converting a fly-half to play there. I?d also like to see more of a North at 13 in the upcoming tournament.

I think there is a glitch here, or maybe my phone putting a ? for an apostrophe...

Wales' 2020 Six Nations Squad:

Forwards (21)

Rhys Carre (Saracens) (6 Caps)
Rob Evans (Scarlets) (36 Caps)
Wyn Jones (Scarlets) (22 Caps)
Elliot Dee (Dragons) (29 Caps)
Ryan Elias (Scarlets) (9 Caps)
Ken Owens (Scarlets) (73 Caps)
Leon Brown (Dragons) (6 Caps)
WillGriff John (Sale) (*uncapped)
Dillon Lewis (Blues) (22 Caps)
Jake Ball (Scarlets) (42 Caps)
Adam Beard (Ospreys) (20 Caps)
Seb Davies (Blues) (7 Caps)
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) (134 Caps) (CAPTAIN)
Will Rowlands (Wasps) (*uncapped)
Cory Hill (Dragons) (24 Caps)
Aaron Shingler (Scarlets) (26 Caps)
Aaron Wainwright (Dragons) (18 Caps)
Taulupe Faletau (Bath) (72 Caps)
Ross Moriarty (Dragons) (41 Caps)
Josh Navidi (Blues) (23 Caps)
Justin Tipuric (Osprey) (72 Caps)

Backs (17)

Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (51 Caps)
Rhys Webb (Toulon) (31 Caps)
Tomos Williams (Blues) (16 Caps)
Dan Biggar (Northampton) (79 Caps)
Owen Williams (Gloucester) (3 Caps)
Jarrod Evans (Blues) (3 Caps)
Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets) (25 Caps)
Nick Tompkins (Saracens) (*uncapped)
Owen Watkin (Ospreys) (22 Caps)
George North (Ospreys) (91 Caps)
Josh Adams (Blues) (21 Caps)
Owen Lane (Blues) (2 Caps)
Johnny McNicholl (Scarlets) (*uncapped)
Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester) (*uncapped)
Jonah Holmes (Leicester Tigers) (3 Caps)
Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets) (85 Caps)
Liam Williams (Saracens) (62 Caps)

mikey_dragon wrote:I think there is a glitch here, or maybe my phone putting a ? for an apostrophe...

Same happened to me just now putting Wales? rather than Wales'

I think I count five uncapped players in that squad, all but one playing in Premiership rather than for regions.

Also just noticed Jonah Holmes despite not being fit. (And Rhys Carre despite the suspension coming his way)

and a recall for Owen Williams on the back of one game as a replacement.

I saw someone on Twitter describe Tompkins as the best England schools centre he ever saw. I'll take that!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I saw someone on Twitter describe Tompkins as the best England schools centre he ever saw. I'll take that!

He has a knack for scoring tries. Thought he may have been in the England squad this time round.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I saw someone on Twitter describe Tompkins as the best England schools centre he ever saw. I'll take that!

If Saracens had given him more game time over the last four years, rather than only using him when Barritt/Bosch/Taylor/Lozowski were unavailable he would have been capped for England by now and probably embedded in the squad. Mind with Eddie who knows.

He could very easily be a Wales centre for the next two world cups.

Squad:

Forwards: Rhys Carre (Saracens), Rob Evans (Scarlets), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Elliot Dee (Dragons), Ryan Elias (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Leon Brown (Dragons), WillGriff John (Sale), Dillon Lewis (Blues), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Seb Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Will Rowlands (Wasps), Cory Hill (Dragons), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Aaron Wainwright (Dragons), Taulupe Faletau (Bath), Ross Moriarty (Dragons), Josh Navidi (Blues), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys).

Backs: Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Webb (Toulon), Tomos Williams (Blues), Dan Biggar (Northampton), Owen Williams (Gloucester), Jarrod Evans (Blues), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Nick Tompkins (Saracens), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), George North (Ospreys), Josh Adams (Blues), Owen Lane (Blues), Johnny McNicholl (Scarlets), Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester), Jonah Holmes (Leicester Tigers), Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets), Liam Williams (Saracens).

Wow, few surprises there for me. Pivac, you did it!

Oracle, I assume you missed my post up the page naming the squad

LT, how is Rowlands in there? Not that I'm complaining, he's a 6'8 and 123kg lock.

The front-row overall is a good choice, probably best to leave out Smith and Lee when I think about it. Seb Davies... meh, why? Unless he's now a converted back-row; we'd be doing a South Africa there. Rowlands I didn't know much about until now, absolute blinder played by Pivac and it's good news given the shaky form of Beard. Back-row no surprised and still very good despite the absentees.

I imagined it would be Webb to get the third and final 9 spot. Owen Williams hasn't much rugby under his belt so that seems like a risk, a risk that Pivac thought worth taking. Watkin might feature in later rounds but for me is a 12 - assuming that Pivac thinks so too. Holmes I didn't think would make it, and Rees-Zammit is the best player in the prem .

mikey_dragon wrote:LT, how is Rowlands in there? Not that I'm complaining, he's a 6'8 and 123kg lock.

Really not sure about the merits of selecting him. Wasps tight five usually look pretty meh. Not 100% sure on his ancestry, but the selection of him does not reflect well on the regional production line.

In this squad, and I may have missed some, the following were largely developed in the premiership: John, Rowlands, Moriarty, Owen Williams, Adams, Rees-Zammitt, Tompkins & Holmes. Of course some of those are very Welsh, and some less so.

Pretty happy with that squad as a whole.

LondonTiger wrote:Oracle, I assume you missed my post up the page naming the squad

Haha! Yes it did, spectacularly! Saw some of the latest comments and no squad so rushed to get it on. Doh!

The Oracle wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Oracle, I assume you missed my post up the page naming the squad

Haha! Yes it did, spectacularly! Saw some of the latest comments and no squad so rushed to get it on. Doh!

As the thread owner departed, I have copied the 6Ns squad into the OP. Hope no-one is offended.

No Scott Williams. Interesting.

It’s actually a good squad. I think Pivac has played a blinder here, in unearthing these players. A lot of people won’t agree with it, but if we are abiding by the rules then why shouldn’t we select them? We’d only be shooting ourselves in the foot by not selecting a big lock and a decent centre.

Agreed. The rules are the same for everyone.

People outside of Wales should not be upset. Rules are being abided by. It is up to you Welsh lads how you feel. The English boards were split over the selection of guys like Shields and Heinz. It is tricky - you want your team to win, but also want to feel it represents you and your country.

I know some people will never like it - one member on here, for example. But it is what it is.

I was also thinking of the Gavin Hensons and Jiffies (I think) of the world, who don’t like it.

RiscaGame wrote:I was also thinking of the Gavin Hensons and Jiffies (I think) of the world, who don’t like it.

I’m not a huge fan of it, but we have done that topic to death on a number of threads, the laws are what they are and we are within our rights to select what world rugby deem to be a welsh qualified player..!

They can dislike it all they want, but their frustration is best vented at the WRU and Regions for not being good enough at developing players of a sufficient quality in particular positions.

mikey_dragon wrote:They can dislike it all they want, but their frustration is best vented at the WRU and Regions for not being good enough at developing players of a sufficient quality in particular positions.

As with many negative issues in the lack of player quality it goes all the way back to schools rugby and the lack of production.

I wonder how different the quantity of junior rugby players is today to fifty years ago when most kids in wales played outside, played games and didn’t have computers, tonnes of homework or the many other modern distractions kids have.

LondonTiger wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:LT, how is Rowlands in there? Not that I'm complaining, he's a 6'8 and 123kg lock.

Really not sure about the merits of selecting him. Wasps tight five usually look pretty meh. Not 100% sure on his ancestry, but the selection of him does not reflect well on the regional production line.

In this squad, and I may have missed some, the following were largely developed in the premiership: John, Rowlands, Moriarty, Owen Williams, Adams, Rees-Zammitt, Tompkins & Holmes. Of course some of those are very Welsh, and some less so.

Btw, Rowlands has a Welsh father. It seems Rowlands has had 1-2 good seasons, before that he struggled to get first team rugby. Wasps and EP fans are probably better suited to comment on that than I am. We need to increase our lock depth, some U20s aren't ready and with AWJ probably bowing out before this cycle ends I get it.

Moriarty and Rees-Zammitt went straight to it from school, so you could argue they had the natural ability and would always get this far no matter who they played for. Owen Williams began his pro career with Scarlets so that is debatable too. The move to English teams clearly did them a world of good though. That can happen with any player, Underhill and Dombrandt .

Rowlands actually may have been the WQ forward that Cardiff had targeted for next season.

I don't like picking English players to play for Wales. It's a bit more tricky when they have a Welsh parent like Anscombe or Jake Ball put just one grandparent doesn't really make you Welsh. But that's the way it goes. We're in a terrible state in Wales and Scott Williams must be really badly injured or just worn out not to get selected ahead of the players picked. Ones English and ones a winger. 3/4 of our centre options going forward will not be Welsh. We need to produce better centres because there has been a real lack of quality for the last decade or so.

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guestalt_physicality wrote:I don't like picking English players to play for England. It's a bit more tricky when they have a Welsh parent like Anscombe or Jake Ball put just one grandparent doesn't really make you Welsh. But that's the way it goes. We're in a terrible state in Wales and Scott Williams must be really badly injured or just worn out not to get selected ahead of the players picked. Ones English and ones a winger. 3/4 of our centre options going forward will not be Welsh. We need to produce better centres because there has been a real lack of quality for the last decade or so.

Or Pivac just does not rate him?

Scott Williams is not on form - he's actually quite gash now. I'm not sure why it is so difficult for some people to see what's going on right in front of them? Pivac's first tournament anyway, and he's likely to want to experiment a little when it's convenient for him and not certain fans.

No, I don't think that's the case, but this topic has been done to death. I would suspect that his medical history (which we don't get to see as fans anymore for the sake of insurance, which is quite right, it's their livelihoods and retirements at stake) is worse than I expected. Gatland said he couldn't walk in the summer so it sounds like his body might just be finished. It would explain his injury history over the last 2 seasons. Very sad if true as he was a top player.

mikey_dragon wrote:Scott Williams is not on form - he's actually quite gash now. I'm not sure why it is so difficult for some people to see what's going on right in front of them? Pivac's first tournament anyway, and he's likely to want to experiment a little when it's convenient for him and not certain fans.

Not only are you toxic to other posters you also have a vindictive streak against players and have done for years. You wouldn't call him 'that word' to his face would you. No. If your 'opinions' are just to try and wind me up and before me maiow then it's pathetic. He assisted a great try against 'your' own team very recently and when he went off 'your team' scored 2 tries and won the game.

Oh for god's sake don't be so ridiculous. His form is gash and I'm not the only one to think that - I don't have a problem with him personally. Weird, miaow used to have a big crush on Scott Williams, and now you turn up getting unnecessarily defensive when people agree that he isn't on form, shouldn't be picked, etc. It doesn't matter if he did get a try assist (wow, whoopie) against 'my team' his form over the course of this season (and last) does not warrant his inclusion - nor should have been thrust into the quarter final team as it was also suggested. Also it doesn't really stack up when someone who used to post as miaow calls other people toxic. These forums aren't for you because you have issues when someone disagrees - something that's been done to death anyway so why don't you utilise the foe option if you can't keep away.

The midfield options are...

Parkes (not in form, 32 years old, slow)
Owen Williams (long term injury, never that impressive at either English club or Wales)
Tompkins (looks good but English)
Owen Watkin (currently injured, still developing)
George North (not a centre)

It's a position Wales need to improve. I like Steff Hughes but against Toulon you could see he struggled and probably isn't ready. Tyler Morgan has never looked good enough for Wales in my opinion. The other options are either too young or too old and none of them have the spark a player like Louis Rees Zammit has.

We have a small player base and it transcends rugby when it is a personal tragedy but Owen Willams was a very good centre we sadly lost to injury. He is regularly in my thoughts around the internationals.

LondonTiger wrote:

guestalt_physicality wrote:I don't like picking English players to play for England. It's a bit more tricky when they have a Welsh parent like Anscombe or Jake Ball put just one grandparent doesn't really make you Welsh. But that's the way it goes. We're in a terrible state in Wales and Scott Williams must be really badly injured or just worn out not to get selected ahead of the players picked. Ones English and ones a winger. 3/4 of our centre options going forward will not be Welsh. We need to produce better centres because there has been a real lack of quality for the last decade or so.

Or Pivac just does not rate him?

Scott Williams is out of form and constantly injured. It’s no surprise that he hasn’t made the team... I don’t think he would pick himself let alone anyone else for the squad.

Better that he gets fit, form and see if he can make the summer tour.

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

guestalt_physicality wrote:I don't like picking English players to play for England. It's a bit more tricky when they have a Welsh parent like Anscombe or Jake Ball put just one grandparent doesn't really make you Welsh. But that's the way it goes. We're in a terrible state in Wales and Scott Williams must be really badly injured or just worn out not to get selected ahead of the players picked. Ones English and ones a winger. 3/4 of our centre options going forward will not be Welsh. We need to produce better centres because there has been a real lack of quality for the last decade or so.

Or Pivac just does not rate him?

Scott Williams is out of form and constantly injured. It’s no surprise that he hasn’t made the team... I don’t think he would pick himself let alone anyone else for the squad.

Better that he gets fit, form and see if he can make the summer tour.

Which would justify Pivac not (currently) rating him. Now form is very subjective and people will argue about who is and is not out of form - but in the end, for Wales, Pivac has the only opinion that matters.

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

guestalt_physicality wrote:I don't like picking English players to play for England. It's a bit more tricky when they have a Welsh parent like Anscombe or Jake Ball put just one grandparent doesn't really make you Welsh. But that's the way it goes. We're in a terrible state in Wales and Scott Williams must be really badly injured or just worn out not to get selected ahead of the players picked. Ones English and ones a winger. 3/4 of our centre options going forward will not be Welsh. We need to produce better centres because there has been a real lack of quality for the last decade or so.

Or Pivac just does not rate him?

Scott Williams is out of form and constantly injured. It’s no surprise that he hasn’t made the team... I don’t think he would pick himself let alone anyone else for the squad.

Better that he gets fit, form and see if he can make the summer tour.

Which would justify Pivac not (currently) rating him. Now form is very subjective and people will argue about who is and is not out of form - but in the end, for Wales, Pivac has the only opinion that matters.

Injury has been against SW since his last season at Scarlets. Hard to play well when you can’t play more than three games in a row without getting an injury.

Yeah he isn’t playing well enough and I don’t think that’s up for debate, it’s more of a fact. Gone are the days where we just chuck someone in because he’s there.

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

guestalt_physicality wrote:I don't like picking English players to play for England. It's a bit more tricky when they have a Welsh parent like Anscombe or Jake Ball put just one grandparent doesn't really make you Welsh. But that's the way it goes. We're in a terrible state in Wales and Scott Williams must be really badly injured or just worn out not to get selected ahead of the players picked. Ones English and ones a winger. 3/4 of our centre options going forward will not be Welsh. We need to produce better centres because there has been a real lack of quality for the last decade or so.

Or Pivac just does not rate him?

Scott Williams is out of form and constantly injured. It’s no surprise that he hasn’t made the team... I don’t think he would pick himself let alone anyone else for the squad.

Better that he gets fit, form and see if he can make the summer tour.

So are North, Watkin, Moriarty, Dillon Lewis, Owen Williams, and Liam Williams. Some of those barely have 80 minutes of rugby under their belt since the world cup. Most of them have shown no form.

Cory Hill, Faletau, AWJ, Rhys Webb, Rhys Carre would also be included in that.

So why is it one rule for Scott Williams and another for about half the squad?

I think this 'debate' has become mixed up with trying to annoy mioaw and not dealing with the facts. If people don't like him as a player that's fine but I haven't really seen a sensible suggestion why he doesn't get picked other than the coaches don't trust him or his body. Welsh players have been constantly picked when injured and out of form. Cory Hill went to the world cup with a broken leg. Plenty of players kept getting picked for years without playing well. One poster is advocating North to play 13 because it wouldn't be Scott Williams, but then criticises him as a winger which is his better position, as if it isn't clear it's not about rugby and about 'winning' arguments and annoying people on the internet. Whatever you think about miaow he was right on this. Scott Williams was a very good player but it looks like his days are over because of injury and that is sad not something to celebrate and call him words I will not repeat.

Scott Williams hasn’t been good enough for 2-3 seasons, because his form was and still is poor. He isn’t a mainstay in the team either like the other mentions. If Williams was in then you just have a poor player dragging the team down. Honestly, I don’t get how you’re still going on about it. People here watch enough rugby to make up their minds on that, it’s nothing to do with pleasing Gatland or annoying you/miaow. That part of your attitude hasn’t changed and it’s why posters still get annoyed. Pretending to be someone else and saying said poster was right, even though you’re the same is ludicrous.

They haven't picked him because they don't think they need him. It's as simple as that.

It’s getting really annoying now. Behaving in a spectacular way, belittling other opinions, responding to arguments that aren’t there to appear right, and then accuse everyone else of the narcissistic behaviour that only you are exhibiting. I’m glad I’m no longer the only person to see it but this is just going to continue through the year, sadly.

guestalt_physicality wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

guestalt_physicality wrote:I don't like picking English players to play for England. It's a bit more tricky when they have a Welsh parent like Anscombe or Jake Ball put just one grandparent doesn't really make you Welsh. But that's the way it goes. We're in a terrible state in Wales and Scott Williams must be really badly injured or just worn out not to get selected ahead of the players picked. Ones English and ones a winger. 3/4 of our centre options going forward will not be Welsh. We need to produce better centres because there has been a real lack of quality for the last decade or so.

Or Pivac just does not rate him?

Scott Williams is out of form and constantly injured. It’s no surprise that he hasn’t made the team... I don’t think he would pick himself let alone anyone else for the squad.

Better that he gets fit, form and see if he can make the summer tour.

So are North, Watkin, Moriarty, Dillon Lewis, Owen Williams, and Liam Williams. Some of those barely have 80 minutes of rugby under their belt since the world cup. Most of them have shown no form.

Cory Hill, Faletau, AWJ, Rhys Webb, Rhys Carre would also be included in that.

So why is it one rule for Scott Williams and another for about half the squad?

I think this 'debate' has become mixed up with trying to annoy mioaw and not dealing with the facts. If people don't like him as a player that's fine but I haven't really seen a sensible suggestion why he doesn't get picked other than the coaches don't trust him or his body. Welsh players have been constantly picked when injured and out of form. Cory Hill went to the world cup with a broken leg. Plenty of players kept getting picked for years without playing well. One poster is advocating North to play 13 because it wouldn't be Scott Williams, but then criticises him as a winger which is his better position, as if it isn't clear it's not about rugby and about 'winning' arguments and annoying people on the internet. Whatever you think about miaow he was right on this. Scott Williams was a very good player but it looks like his days are over because of injury and that is sad not something to celebrate and call him words I will not repeat.

Mate no one agrees with you, by continuing to barrack on about Scott Williams your derailing the thread and annoying other posters.

Start your own Scott fan club thread somewhere else. He is not in the squad, no one is surprised, hope he gets fitness back and plays well because currently he’s just costing the Ospreys a lot of money.

Why is it you're only responding to points on this topic? If you're bored with it then talk about something else but no one wants to you just want to fight. I have asked you several questions maesteg about different subjects and you have ignored them all. I am convinced this has nothing to do with Scott Williams as a rugby player to be perfectly honest.

Maes I too was thinking he was on a lot of money, with all the cars he’s buying... We had hoped Scott would improve by moving but that’s going to be difficult in a badly run team, unfortunately. 
And we’ve been talking about everything else all day, it’s you who keeps bringing it back to your big crush - and not just today.

guestalt_physicality wrote:Why is it you're only responding to points on this topic? If you're bored with it then talk about something else but no one wants to you just want to fight. I have asked you several questions maesteg about different subjects and you have ignored them all. I am convinced this has nothing to do with Scott Williams as a rugby player to be perfectly honest.

FFS. Why would any of us have an issue with Scott Williams? I doubt any of us give him much thought at all - certainly not as much thought as you evidently give him!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:They haven't picked him because they don't think they need him. It's as simple as that.

Of course but it's a very bad situation for Wales and our centres when they are English and New Zealanders. For me there are 2 proven Welsh centres available to Wales, one we know and I am not going to be ganged up on by discussing this further, the other is Jamie Roberts who is 33. We would not be picking Haloholo or Parkes or Tompkins if we had equivalent players in Wales. This is a problem position for Wales and like I said earlier which is a much better topic we should think of Owen Williams at this time and I am not bringing up religion again but at least have him in your thoughts. There are more important things than rugby and there are 'certainly' more important things than getting upset about online arguments.