Champions Cup - Double Headers

First topic message reminder :

Pool 1
Northampton & Leinster
Lyon & Benetton

Pool 2
Exeter & Sale
Glasgow & La Rochelle

Pool 3
Ulster & Quins
Clermont & Bath

Pool 4
Racing & Ospreys
Munster & Saracens

Pool 5
Toulouse & Montpelier
Connacht & Gloucester

He took a high kick, then put his foot out straight into Thomas face.

Kick to the head, hard to argue with it really. Not intentional but clumsy, but going to get a red every day of the week in the current climate.

Spreys not helping themselves by picking up two more yellows in the first half as well.

Williams kicked it out of a ruck when they were up against it and Aled Davies did a deliberate knock on when racing were running in a try, that one cost a penalty try as well.

Its been 15 v 13 for the bulk of the half

Rugby Fan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Anyone know why Dan Evans received a red card in the first minute?

"Dan Evans is sent off after climbing high to field a high ball and appearing to put his boot into Teddy Thomas.’ face. "

I just seen a replay. Looks like an odd one. It’s been a day of red cards for sure.

To be honest I think fez is a decent pundit. More than happy to slate Ulster when they don't perform and equally praises good play from the opposition

Brendan wrote:I think commentators should not be ex players of teams they played for in the last 5 years.  Hate when ex players talk about the lads/guys as if they are still there.

Commentating in most sports these days is jobs for the lads and nothing more than timer filler.

That's not an issue of proximity though, it's an issue of professionalism. Obviously a pundit won't throw their ex teammates under the bus, or their former team, but there should be no reason why they can't do their job well. Shouldn't need to create a 'rule' to prevent Heaslip's dreadful punditry - just don't hire him. No wonder there's no podcast...

Pot Hale wrote:

miaow wrote:Tbf both Irish and Welsh broadcasters are one eyed.

It's just that Heaslip is at another level of shocking 'punditry'. Basically just a supporter with a mic providing no sort of positive analysis a la Philip Mathhews, Jiffy etc.

Heaslip is definitely, but the Welsh bloke, Sean Holley takes it down to a whole other level.   Can't find a single good word to say about Irish opposition, he's appalling.   Not even a supporter, just a malevolent, bitter had-been who doesn't like being out of the game and wants to visit his resentment on every viewer possible.    Still, he's the best of a bad lot of the credit they have on the welsh Premier Sports programme.   You should hear some of the other fellas.....

You've possibly listened to Holley once then. He's been a pundit on Welsh TV for years and is generally pretty decent, a fair amount of technical detail, a bit David Brent at times and loves to reminds everyone he dominated Leinster while Ospreys coach, but I've literally never heard him do anything like what you're describing. It's chalk and cheese between Heaslip, who sounds like a fill in from a fan TV channel, and Holley.

Rugby Fan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Anyone know why Dan Evans received a red card in the first minute?

"Dan Evans is sent off after climbing high to field a high ball and appearing to put his boot into Teddy Thomas.’ face. "

Clever boy.

Should be at least 4 weeks off, possibly 6. Gets to enjoy Christmas and New Year now.

miaow wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Anyone know why Dan Evans received a red card in the first minute?

"Dan Evans is sent off after climbing high to field a high ball and appearing to put his boot into Teddy Thomas.’ face. "

Clever boy.

Should be at least 4 weeks off, possibly 6. Gets to enjoy Christmas and New Year now.

Different competition, but Odogwu of Wasps got an 8 week ban reduced to 6 for something very similar.

Why are players still leading with their forearm?

miaow wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

miaow wrote:Tbf both Irish and Welsh broadcasters are one eyed.

It's just that Heaslip is at another level of shocking 'punditry'. Basically just a supporter with a mic providing no sort of positive analysis a la Philip Mathhews, Jiffy etc.

Heaslip is definitely, but the Welsh bloke, Sean Holley takes it down to a whole other level.   Can't find a single good word to say about Irish opposition, he's appalling.   Not even a supporter, just a malevolent, bitter had-been who doesn't like being out of the game and wants to visit his resentment on every viewer possible.    Still, he's the best of a bad lot of the credit they have on the welsh Premier Sports programme.   You should hear some of the other fellas.....

You've possibly listened to Holley once then. He's been a pundit on Welsh TV for years and is generally pretty decent, a fair amount of technical detail, a bit David Brent at times and loves to reminds everyone he dominated Leinster while Ospreys coach, but I've literally never heard him do anything like what you're describing. It's chalk and cheese between Heaslip, who sounds like a fill in from a fan TV channel, and Holley.

I’ve had the misfortune to listen to him a number of times.  He is that bad. But sure never mind, one is as bad as the other.

Holley is awful. They didn’t call his stats ‘pratpad’ for nothing.

Another red card, this time for Arno Botha after 80 mins.

Two red cards in the Toulon v London Irish match too ...

Heaf wrote:Two red cards in the Toulon v London Irish match too ...

Not seen these two, obviously, but the two Champions Cup red cards were pretty much clear cut.

I’ve only seen the Dan Evans one and it’s a correct decision for me.

I think the only shock is how early in the game it is. Had it been on 60mins I don’t think anyone would be questioning it. But the ref must ignore the clock and judge the incident on its own. Tough on the Ospreys but probably the right call.

I don't think any reasonable observer would argue with the red card decision against Dan Evans, I certainly wouldn't and have said so on the Ospreys forum, there are a few on there that do argue on there about the severity, it's funny in a way that Warburton and Liam Williams both said it was harsh. I think it was Liam that said he was trying to get his balance, well I know if you want to get your balance when 1 foot is on the ground you don't lift your other into the air as Dan did you put it to the ground.

There was no complaints about it from Hogg or Lydgate post match. They ssw it for what it was, an accident but a dangerous one.

His best bet is to say sorry a lot and bring some good quality biscuits to the hearing!

A few of the Dragons players on twitter seem to think Basham's RC was incorrect.

Ryan was sounding off about that as well, there was no TMO to review it apparently

I seen it once, and in that one viewing I didn't think it was red. Every time our guys complained about something the French ref's standard response was "I have no TMO."

It was Mitrea, the Italian, I think.

He is neither the most empathetic nor technically most competent of refs.

Yeah just remembered it was Mitrea, he sounded French at the time...

Hoggy earning his corn for the Chiefs today, just made a try and scored one in a 5 minute burst

12-3 Exeter already, long way back for Sale now

One of them was a penalty try, not sure what for but not a red card offence it would seem...

mikey_dragon wrote:One of them was a penalty try, not sure what for but not a red card offence it would seem...

No dangerous play but Ben Curry killed it on the Sale line coming in from offside, barn door yellow and penalty try

Exeter are walking this at the moment

22-8 and three tries in the bag

Marlon Yarde spoons one over the line when it would have been easier to score!

Sale still trying hard, game maybe not dead quite yet.

Exeter beat sale 22-20 by the skin of their teeth

Exeter still unbeaten and Sale will be out next weekend if they can't win down at Sandy Park, which will be a pretty tall order.

Good result for Glasgow

You would have to say on the evidence of that round, Leinster are going to take a bit of beating!

Exeter are probably one of the few teams with the potential to do Leinster over. Racing, Clermont and Toulouse seem very good this season too.

mikey_dragon wrote:Yeah just remembered it was Mitrea, he sounded French at the time...

With his thick Romanian accent?

BigGee wrote:You would have to say on the evidence of that round, Leinster are going to take a bit of beating!

I've been quietly impressed by Leinster up until yesterday.  They look crisp and seem to have a machine-like desire for a specific pace....they might get stalled for a while but when the chess pieces are in place, instantly back to killer mode..... ; but up till now I was maybe even a little cautious that the machine just seemed a little too smooth and worried what would happen if they met a side with a real gameplan to challenge them.  Would the cogs crumble?
That game yesterday was probably the first where I could say yep, the image has substance enough to handle the big games to come.  Not suggesting the title is theirs... but given Northampton's position in the English league and even more so that frenetic slick game they play, Leinster looked calm, controlled and never complacent.  Just the right ingredients.

Saints have come to Dublin on the return leg of a double header before and pull out a victory a week after a home defeat. The same could be possible this time around. They should feel embarrassed by the performance in the second half. That should get a reaction in training this week. I can see the weekend being a different type of game completely.

Dan Evans banned for 4 weeks, so misses all the Derbies.

If it was a deliberate or dangerous kick, it's the strangest one I have ever seen. Things getting worse for Ospreys as the injuries up front continue to stack up. Hopefully there's some careful planning over the coming months and a new coach announcement (a good one), to set them up for next season.

It might be reflexive in that he sees someone running at him to smash him (legally) and he sticks out his leg to ward them off.

It is dangerous because if the chap isn't dissuaded from a legal challenge he ends up with a face-full of studs.

HARLEQUINS
15. Ross Chisholm, 14. Vereniki Goneva, 13. James Lang, 12. Francis Saili, 11. Cadan Murley, 10. Brett Herron, 9. Martin Landajo, 1. Santiago Garcia Botta, 2. Elia Elia, 3. Kyle Sinckler (c), 4. Stephan Lewies, 5. Tex Cavubati , 6. Will Evans, 7. Semi Kunatani, 8. Alex Dombrandt.

Replacements:16. Jack Musk, 17. Nick Auterac, 18. Simon Kerrod, 19. Dino Lamb, 20. James Chisholm, 21. Niall Saunders, 22. Paul Lasike, 23. Travis Ismaiel,


ULSTER RUGBY
15. Jacob Stockdale, 14. Matt Faddes, 13. Luke Marshall, 12. Stuart McCloskey, 11. Louis Ludik, 10. Billy Burns, 9. John Cooney, 1. Eric O'Sullivan, 2. Rob Herring, 3. Marty Moore, 4. Kieran Treadwell, 5. Iain Henderson (c), 6. Sean Reidy, 7. Jordi Murphy, 8. Marcell Coetzee.

Replacements:16. Adam McBurney, 17. Andy Warwick, 18. Tom O'Toole, 19. Alan O'Connor, 20. Matt Rea, 21. David Shanahan, 22. Bill Johnston, 23. Craig Gilroy,


Referee: Alexandre Ruiz (France)

AR1: Cedric Marchat (France)
AR2: Luc Ramos (France)
TMO: Patrick Dellac (France)

Broadcasters: BT Sport / beIN SPORTS

Slightly odd Quins lineup

Saracens v Munster Rugby

Date: Sat 14 December 2019 KO: 15:00 Venue: Allianz Park

SARACENS
15. Max Malins, 14. Sean Maitland, 13. Alex Lozowski, 12. Nick Tompkins, 11. Elliot Daly, 10. Owen Farrell (c), 9. Richard Wigglesworth, 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Jamie George, 3. Vincent Koch, 4. Joel Kpoku, 5. George Kruis, 6. Nick Isiekwe, 7. Ben Earl, 8. Billy Vunipola.

Replacements: 16. Tom Woolstencroft, 17. Richard Barrington, 18. Josh Ibuanokpe, 19. Calum Clark, 20. Jackson Wray, 21. Ben Spencer, 22. Manu Vunipola, 23. Duncan Taylor,


MUNSTER RUGBY
15. Mike Haley, 14. Andrew Conway, 13. Chris Farrell, 12. Rory Scannell, 11. Keith Earls, 10. JJ Hanrahan, 9. Conor Murray, 1. James Cronin, 2. Niall Scannell, 3. John Ryan, 4. Jean Kleyn, 5. Billy Holland, 6. Tadhg Beirne, 7. Peter O'Mahony (c), 8. CJ Stander.

Replacements: 16. Kevin O'Byrne, 17. Liam O'Connor, 18. Stephen Archer, 19. Fineen Wycherley, 20. Jack O'Donoghue, 21. Nick McCarthy, 22. Dan Goggin, 23. Tommy O'Donnell,

Referee: Pascal Gauzère (France)
AR1: Maxime Chalon (France)
AR2: Jonathan Dufort (France)
TMO: Eric Gauzins (France)

Broadcasters: BT Sport / beIN SPORTS

Close to an entirely new team for Sarries.

After last Saturday, I am not looking forward to tomorrow. Saints will really need to up their game. The second half last week was awful.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:After last Saturday, I am not looking forward to tomorrow. Saints will really need to up their game. The second half last week was awful.

Looks like a weaker Saints lineup:

LEINSTER RUGBY
15. Jordan Larmour, 14. Dave Kearney, 13. Garry Ringrose, 12. Robbie Henshaw, 11. James Lowe, 10. Ross Byrne, 9. Luke McGrath, 1. Cian Healy, 2. James Tracy, 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. Scott Fardy (c), 5. James Ryan, 6. Rhys Ruddock, 7. Josh van der Flier, 8. Caelan Doris.

Replacements: 16. Bryan Byrne, 17. Ed Byrne, 18. Andrew Porter, 19. Devin Toner, 20. Max Deegan, 21. Jamison Gibson-Park, 22. Ciaran Frawley, 23. Rob Kearney,


NORTHAMPTON SAINTS
15. Ahsee Tuala, 14. Ollie Sleightholme, 13. Matt Proctor, 12. Andy Symons, 11. Taqele Naiyaravoro, 10. Dan Biggar, 9. Connor Tupai, 1. Francois van Wyk, 2. Michael Van Vuuren, 3. Paul Hill, 4. Api Ratuniyarawa, 5. Alex Coles, 6. Tom Wood (c), 7. Jamie Gibson, 8. Lewis Ludlam.

Replacements: 16. Sam Matavesi, 17. Alex Waller, 18. Ehren Painter, 19. Lewis Bean, 20. JJ Tonks, 21. James Mitchell, 22. James Grayson, 23. Fraser Dingwall

Snow in the south of France sees Pau vs Blues postponed until tomorrow. Not much more excitement going on, but hoping that London Irish do Toulon to halt their momentum.

Bonus point win for Ulster. Quins don't seem too good this year.

Teams like Quins are going all 'French' when it comes to Europe - give it a go in the first three games and if that doesn't work out focus on the League.

Curious in the Connacht game. Connact were held up over the line and Poite awarded a scrum. The TMO said time was up in the half but Poite said the scrum would play. A minute later, after talking to his TMO, Poite changed his mind, and called half time.

Not sure if Poite didn't realize time was over before the ball was held up, or if he thought a scrum should play in such circumstances. If Connacht hadn't stopped for an injury, the scrum could have taken place.

Munster medic particularly brave to have a pop at Jamie George about his weight though he wasn't brave enough to hang about in the ensuing melee. Not the brightest move as it seems to have fired up Sarries.

Omg will someone please shut Jamie Heaslip up.

Yeah he’s Irish and they’re the worst commentators.

Leinster are pretty awesome.