England's Winter

First topic message reminder :

As per LT's original post:
New Zealand

T20 Internationals

Friday November 1st - Christchurch
Sunday November 3rd - Wellington
Tuesday November 5th - Nelson
Friday November 8th - Napier
Sunday November 10th - Auckland

Squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Tom Banton (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Pat Brown (Worcestershire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)


Tests

Wednesday November 20th - Tauranga
Thursday November 28th - Hamilton

Squad
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Warwickshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)



South Africa

Tests

Thursday 26th December - Centurion
Friday January 3rd - Cape Town
Thursday January 16th - Port Elizabeth
Friday January 24th - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill


ODI
Tuesday 4th February - Cape Town
Friday 7th February - Durban
Sunday 9th February - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill

T20 Internationals

Wednesday 12th February - East London
Friday 14th February - Durban
Sunday 16th February - Centurion


Sri Lanka

March 7th - Warm up 1, Katunayake (3 day)
March 12th - Warm up 2, Colombo (3 day)
March 19th - 1st Test, Galle
March 27th - 2nd Test, Colombo

Pope rather adding insult to injury reverse flicking Rabada twice for boundaries

He's suffering a bit with the cramp though ...I'd get 'em off about now. 467 should be enough.

And yes ...right on cue Wood holes out and off they come.

It is a no ball actually ! So they bat on

That will really p.ss them off !

alfie wrote:And yes ...right on cue Wood holes out and off they come.

It is a no ball actually !  So they bat on

That will really p.ss them off !

What a sport we love.

I wouldn't mess about much longer though : SA must be very low on morale right now so it has to be a good time to bowl at them...under lights and all. Seize the moment !

Has to be said that Mark Wood doesn't lack for a bit of batting ability, curiously has played almost as many ODI's has he has runs 56 in 51.

alfie wrote:And yes ...right on cue Wood holes out and off they come.

It is a no ball actually !  So they bat on

That will really p.ss them off !

Absolutely. And that's why they're doing it!

However, even though it was a no ball, I'm surprised Root was allowed to go back on his decision to declare. Once you've declared, you've declared, no?

alfie wrote:I wouldn't mess about much longer though : SA must be very low on morale right now so it has to be a good time to bowl at them...under lights and all. Seize the moment !

Not sure I agree - I very much am of the school, if you can get some quick, easy runs then continue to do it. Easier to get them now, than Denly patting the spinner back for 1 run per over on day 4...

Over now anyways, one shy of 500

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:And yes ...right on cue Wood holes out and off they come.

It is a no ball actually !  So they bat on

That will really p.ss them off !

Absolutely. And that's why they're doing it!

However, even though it was a no ball, I'm surprised Root was allowed to go back on his decision to declare. Once you've declared, you've declared, no?

I wondered about that. But I guess the batsmen not being out changes the whole situation so he is entitled to change his mind.

Out now so they're off at last ...499. Was fun watching Wood hit sixes but I'd rather see him bowling...

Need sleep but I might stick around for the first few overs.

Maharaj got five ...but at quite a cost ! Really suffered against the left handers ...and Wood at the end. Think he deserved a bit better than 5/180.

England fail to make 500 on a flat pitch yet again!

Funny though this won't count in those sort of stats, which does show that stats aren't everything. See also Ben Stokes averages

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

alfie wrote:I wouldn't mess about much longer though : SA must be very low on morale right now so it has to be a good time to bowl at them...under lights and all. Seize the moment !

Not sure I agree - I very much am of the school, if you can get some quick, easy runs then continue to do it. Easier to get them now, than Denly patting the spinner back for 1 run per over on day 4...

Over now anyways, one shy of 500

Yeah just ten minutes I'm not bothered about. As you say , cheap runs. But I'm glad they didn't go any longer...I think they can do some damage tonight.

Why open with Curran?

Soul Requiem wrote:Why open with Curran?

Hoping he will get some swing ? Reckon Wood will be into action soon though. And Bess too I think.

Nothing in these first few overs to suggest the pace men are going to get a lot of help from the pitch. Suspect it might be a case of bowling tight lines and hoping scoreboard pressure does the trick.

Pope is now averaging over 60 in first class cricket. He's a brilliant talent.

Bess on . Very early. I'm off ...get some wickets , eh , chaps ?

Good night all...

I hope Root knows Wood wasn’t picked as a specialist batsman!

Assume as well they had a theory about one or the other SA openers and the left arm angle. Smacks of trying to be too cute again.

Concern very much is does Englands attack without leech Anderson and Archer have enough teeth to take 20 wickets on what looks pretty easy batting conditions. At least theyve taken the loss out of the equation in all but the most extreme circumstances.

When was the last time they made that much in an innings? There cant have been many in the last 4 years

Bess gets both Malan and Hamza before a combination of rain and light stops play early. Really not sure SA needed to send Nortje in as a night watchman...

Great day for England and Stokes and Pope, plus a tidy two wickets for Bess at the last knockings. Just 18 more to get and England will be hoping for 8 more tomorrow.

Not a strong South African batting order, so I’m confident of victory for the English, despite more expected rain.

Those two late wickets really change the complexion...very much England in the driving seat and with the momentum.
Still worryingly little for the seamers but it's a should win position.

England's desperately inexperienced batting line-up now boasts an extra two centurions (Sibley, Pope) while Denley can claim a 94.

Stokes's form has been stellar of late. It's certainly worth playing him even if he's unfit to bowl.

England really need to win this series against one of the weakest sides SA have fielded since their re-admission. Rabada is out of the last Test, too.

sirfredperry wrote:England's desperately inexperienced batting line-up now boasts an extra two centurions (Sibley, Pope) while Denley can claim a 94.

Stokes's form has been stellar of late. It's certainly worth playing him even if he's unfit to bowl.

England really need to win this series against one of the weakest sides SA have fielded since their re-admission. Rabada is out of the last Test, too.

His batting average hs improved from just under 33 a year ago to a shade under 37 after today's innings (I love Cricinfo's cumulative averages tool - really shows whose from is improving). Bowling average has remained pretty consistent around 32-33 for the last 18 months. His batting average now is the highest it's been in his career other than after his second test, where a century pushed it over 40 for one game.

I know his average isn't in the same universe yet, but I think of Stokes almost as our Kallis - a genuine top order batsman who can be the third / fourth seamer and can produce the occasional spell of really dangerous bowling.

Love how reports today have spoken of how Root "undeclared". Surely the first use of this in a cricket context.

I do enjoy 'the debate' on Sky. A lot of hyperbole, where's the breeze blowing type opinions but it has that ridiculous feeling of TMS on a slow day when the commentators are just openly filling some time.

Occasionally there are very insightful points made (Farbrace and Stewart discussing Pope's personality of the pitch was interesting today) but more often than not it's nothing more than a relaxing way to wind down for an hour after work and frankly I love that!

sirfredperry wrote:Love how reports today have spoken of how Root "undeclared". Surely the first use of this in a cricket context.

He'll more than likely have the opportunity to become the first captain to declare three times in a game!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:4,000 runs and 100 wickets for Stokes now - only Sobers and Kallis have got to that quicker. Decent company

QUIZ QUESTION

I'm hoping this wasn't shouted on comms. Anyway, besides Sobers, Kallis and now Stokes, 4 other players have scored 4,000 runs and taken 100 wickets in Tests. Can you name these 4.

For me, 2 were straightforward. The remaining 2 weren't although their names are certainly known!

Kapil Dev
Botham defo

Carl Hooper?
???

Vettori I think is the other one.

Vettori is a great shout there, Soul.

Instinctively I thought of bowlers with long careers who could also bat such as Hadlee or Akram but I think they will be short of 4,000. Probably around the 3,000 mark doing some very crude calculations in my head.

Did Hooper bowl that much in tests? I thought he bowled more in one day stuff but in tests was just a change to rotate the quicks. Before my time though so that's just an indication I got from reading about that great Windies side, watching old footage, etc.

If Hooper isn't one then I'd take an outside bet on Steve Waugh. He bowled a fair bit earlier in his career.

I remember Hooper bowling a lot in the 90s. Was their main spinner for quite a while.

Awesome slip fielder too. I’ll bet he took 100 catches too!

Vettori is a great shout. Just looked at his test batting average and was surprised that it was in the 30. Considering he started as a number xi that is impressive.

Well done, guys.

Yes, the other 4 are Botham, Kapil Dev, Vettori and Hooper. I came up with first two there straightaway but only wondered about Vettori along with Greig, Flintoff and the Australian Keith Miller (who all fell short on runs).

I didn't get close to naming Hooper. Didn't realise he had bowled so much in Tests, And yes, Afro, he snaffled over 100 catches too!

Hooper was a brilliant player but I just didn't think he bowled as much in tests with Walsh and Ambrose leading the attack! Over a long career being that 2nd change bowler behind the seamers will have added up though I suppose.

My granddad recorded any cricket he could for a long time and with little cricket on terrestrial growing up I used to watch those old highlights packages. Hooper was a wonderful batsman to watch when everything clicked.

Players are expected to be so good in all fielding positions now that the specialist slip fielders are fading a bit. The likes of Hooper, Botham, Hayden, Warne, Trescothic, Flintoff, etc who weren't anything special in the outfield but would stand at slip and pouch just about everything.

Flintoff was very good in the slips, but was also often deployed in the outfield with those bucket hands and he had a good arm as well. Not the most mobile though, especially later in his career, though he's obviously remembered for that runout in the 2009 Ashes as much as anything else he did.

Trescothick was a superb slipper and had surprising agility on either side, helped doing a fair bit of keeping during his career.

Flintoff is such a weird one, his stats are unremarkable in every way but his impact was huge, not entirely sure he fielded that much in the slips actually; Tres and Strauss the main guys there while Giles was the habitual gully fielder.

Bess has all four but Wood with a big assist in all them unsettling the batsmen with his pace and accuracy.

Well tha teaches me to have a lie in, well done Bess! I did note before this series started that SA have a long habit of melting down against spin but it's still pretty impressive for an offie to take the first 4 wickets of a first innings outside asia.
Makes a change to see England look full of confidence and their opposition riven with doubt and off field media pressure

Denly on Broad. So curran goes from being trusted with the new ball to being below the part time leggie today.
Nortje is playing like Denly with the bat and proving a point about valuing your wicket.

Crumbs well played Bess. Backed by Root after starting to leak runs, stuck to his attacking length and got his man.
Cant see de kol hanging around....England could well be batting today

Ollie Pope the new Ian Bell. And Dom Bess the new Jim Laker :O

Fantastic start by England. Should enforce the follow on if given the chance.

king_carlos wrote:I do enjoy 'the debate' on Sky. A lot of hyperbole, where's the breeze blowing type opinions

Now all over Bess after slating him at Newlands. Also banging on about how brave England were to select young players, like they had a choice in the matter. Easy to forget they would have had Anderson, Burns and Mo given the choice and that they did their best to ignore Sibley in the summer.

TBF Bess does look like a different beast here and that may be that hes been given different expectation from the captain and more of a license to attack. He was initially bought in to hold up and end, and seemed to be stuck on an overly passive length when SA were batting out a draw. Here Root is keeping men round the bat and they bought him on early to get wickets. Shades of Moeen on the previous tour maybe, but you rarely see Mo getting as much genuine turn on a pudding.
Suddenly England have a host of young cricketers with some big performances under their belts. After day one of the second test it looked like this was going to be a wretched tour and a new low winter for England. Suddenly the future is all roses and unicorns.

Rain appears to be the only thing stopping us in this one - forecast isn’t great for tomorrow either

Teaming it down now - not looking promising

Think we can give up on the prospect of any more play today. Even if the rain clears and the outfield dries, the light is going to be a big issue.

Ha . Missed most of the Bess show ...(our own match was miles away and finished very late.) Saw Root drop a sitter and VD Dussen totally done to complete the five for...So : was it all brilliant bowling or have SA completely lost the plot ? I see Nortje is proving an adhesive night watchman.

Rain is annoying (although wife welcomes the chance to watch some French drama ) ...game is moving on but you wouldn't want to lose too much time. Any break in sight yet ?

Well apparently the covers are coming off. Maybe my earlier pessimism was misplaced.

No, never mind, raining again!

alfie wrote:Ha .  Missed most of the Bess show ...(our own match was miles away and finished very late.)  Saw Root drop a sitter and VD Dussen totally done to complete the five for...So : was it all brilliant bowling or have SA completely lost the plot ?  I see Nortje is proving an adhesive night watchman.

Rain is annoying (although wife welcomes the chance to watch some French drama ) ...game is moving on but you wouldn't want to lose too much time.  Any break in sight yet ?

Genuine wickets from Bess rather than many youd see from Mo get deep catches. Hes getting genuine spin ( as in hes ripping the ball rather than the pitch being a minefield) and has license to attack. That said SA havent exactly batted well and faf is clearly suffering from the same pressures we have seen cause many England players see their games disentergrate in recent years.

You cant argue with all 5 wickets for an off spinner first digs, he must be doing something right.

Actually quite liked what I saw of Bess back against Pakistan in 2018. But then he got injured and later rather overshadowed by Leach at Somerset...
Seems he's taking his chance rather well here. Way to go but reckon he's nailed on for Sri Lanka at least. I know he hasn't exactly sparkled with the bat on this tour but we know he has some ability in that area so has some advantage over one or two others when planning an XI.

If most of today is washed away I'd imagine England will be forced to call for the follow on (I do assume that will be available). At least the quicks won't be exhausted by mass numbers of overs ...but even spinners get tired so hope Bess can wrap up his ten wickets early tomorrow

A pause in play might give SA a chance to regroup and play with a bit of Nortje's determination.  But I think they are a bit out of sorts right now - not helped by a captain who really doesn't look happy to be out there at all.  I beware of getting too far ahead in these games but I do like the England chances at the moment...

Doesn’t look like we’ll get anymore play today - and the forecast for the next two days are really not promising either.

Looks like SA might get away with this one