England's Winter

First topic message reminder :

As per LT's original post:
New Zealand

T20 Internationals

Friday November 1st - Christchurch
Sunday November 3rd - Wellington
Tuesday November 5th - Nelson
Friday November 8th - Napier
Sunday November 10th - Auckland

Squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Tom Banton (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Pat Brown (Worcestershire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)


Tests

Wednesday November 20th - Tauranga
Thursday November 28th - Hamilton

Squad
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Warwickshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)



South Africa

Tests

Thursday 26th December - Centurion
Friday January 3rd - Cape Town
Thursday January 16th - Port Elizabeth
Friday January 24th - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill


ODI
Tuesday 4th February - Cape Town
Friday 7th February - Durban
Sunday 9th February - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill

T20 Internationals

Wednesday 12th February - East London
Friday 14th February - Durban
Sunday 16th February - Centurion


Sri Lanka

March 7th - Warm up 1, Katunayake (3 day)
March 12th - Warm up 2, Colombo (3 day)
March 19th - 1st Test, Galle
March 27th - 2nd Test, Colombo

Ha ! Wicket...as predicted

Wood finds the edge and off goes Malan...

Reward for a hostile spell

Finally they nick one - Wood and Woakes have bowled beautifully, and Malan nibbles one through to Buttler

SA really going nowhere despite the dig in - ultimately if they’re to level the series they need runs...

Tough for SA now...van der Dussen in an unfamiliar spot at three and England bowling rather well...

This is arguably the pair best equipped to wear down the England attack. So the next wicket may be rather significant.

That rather wobbly SA tail can't be a reassuring sight for home supporters !

Very deserved wicket for Wood. 94MPH! Was surprised he wasn’t given the new ball instead of Curran.

I'm reading that the Wood wicket ball was clocked at 94.5 mph.

Serious wheels ! Just as well he kept a fraction of his heel behind the line though ...

Excellent bowling from Curran rewarded with the wicket of Van Der Dussen, good catch by Stokes

Now redemption for Stokes in the slips after his many spills in the previous test. This is going to be a very comfortable win.

Sam Curran strikes ! Duck for Dussie...and Stokes back in catching mode...

Goose probably won't let this convince him of young Sam's value to the side ; but he's taken some important wickets in this series

And a good bowling change from Root.

Blimey ! Elgar playing a most un-characteristic shot to surrender his wicket...

SA on the verge of complete meltdown , I think.

Can see Root having to consider overnight whether or not to enforce the follow on sometime tomorrow ?

Sir Chris Woakes on fire today

Very marginal...but Woakes has continued Faf's miserable series with an lbw - just - upheld on review.

60/4. Will they get 150 ? Can't see them making 200.

Bavuma to the crease...

Also doubt they enforce the follow on Alfie if they get the opportunity - really only way SA win this game in my eyes would be if they could somehow garner a lead of 150, England batting last, Philander’s last hurrah...

Very unlikely either way - but I’d bat again, grind them into the dirt, make sure the series is won first, then unleash the seamers for one final push to win the game

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Also doubt they enforce the follow on Alfie if they get the opportunity - really only way SA win this game in my eyes would be if they could somehow garner a lead of 150, England batting last, Philander’s last hurrah...

Very unlikely either way - but I’d bat again, grind them into the dirt, make sure the series is won first, then unleash the seamers for one final push to win the game

Yes I think you are right , Olly. Unless a lot of rain comes in to reduce the playing time I'd imagine England would be batting again - though more to rest the bowlers than from any fear of being beaten by a resurgent SA second innings.
If this innings were to finish around lunch tomorrow - not an unreasonable prospect - they'd have plenty of time to rattle up a couple of hundred more and still have the better part of two days to finish the job with the ball.

All more Roundhead than Cavalier but that's the way of the modern game...

Enough for me tonight. Get a couple more before the close , OK ?

'Night all....

Faf’s LBW was a tough one...looked high in real time and very marginally clipping the stumps on review. One that you inevitably get when you’re horrendously out of nick.

Weather looks clear for most of tomorrow and all of days four and five so I also doubt England would enforce the follow-on, should the chance arise.

Pretty much a perfect day for england that

South Africa are hopeless. Didn’t expect much resistance and they’ve duly delivered on that. Changed my mind - enforce the follow on and win it tomorrow.

Another great day for Wood with the ball.

Great stuff, even when Buttler was out and being dropped on all media platforms, it looked like a fairly decent score given the history of this ground. As it turned out, Broad turned up with one of those destructive knocks that he still sometimes plays. The Wood/Broad partnership was like a Broad/Swann special from back in the day

So 400 to respond to with South Africa's batting, it was never going to go well for them

Woakes with the early wicket but since then de Kock and Pretorius have batted sensibly enough and edged the score up to 123/7.

I initially thought if England could demolish the last four quickly it might make sense to put 'em back in and finish it and earn a day or two off...but as it now looks as if these last few are going to take some time to remove it seems certain England will bat again. Dreary prospect : is there anything more dismal in a Test Match than one of these pressure-free rack up the cheap runs second innings target setting efforts ? The bowlers going through the motions while awaiting a declaration ; batsmen fattening their averages and amusing themselves with carefree run making..and spectators just drinking and killing time until the serious stuff starts again... It is boring..

Should maybe give extra WCC points for winning by an innings ?

Ah well it does have the merit of giving the poor old bowlers a rest. But other than that...

No one about ? Bit quiet I guess : these two batting solidly and rather showing up the top order...and that this remains a pretty good pitch for batting.

I see England are about to waste a review Whose stupid idea was that ? For heavens sake that was always going over

Be wishing they had a spinner soon...

Anyway it certainly won't be a follow on so I can book an early night...

England will hope to have this done reasonably soon though as they will want (a) a cushion and (b) time to add extra runs in order to give themselves something like five sessions to finish it with 450 in the bank...

Still plenty of time for that. But they'd like a wicket ...

Yes a wicket would be nice. England are still miles ahead, but it is a fightback from SA so far, and of course we all have Holder/Dowrich, Watling/Santner comedy partnerships in the back of our minds, so you never know how far these two could take it

Thinking a bit more glass half full, a lead of even 150 is massive, and SA getting to within that is a still a huge way to go

Stokes on and producing some fine deliveries ...beating the de Kock bat and the nearest thing we've seen to a wicket in an hour or so...

Follow on might end up not even an option at this rate...only 48 more needed.

Missing that spinner now

VTR wrote:Yes a wicket would be nice. England are still miles ahead, but it is a fightback from SA so far, and of course we all have Holder/Dowrich, Watling/Santner comedy partnerships in the back of our minds, so you never know how far these two could take it

Thinking a bit more glass half full, a lead of even 150 is massive, and SA getting to within that is a still a huge way to go

Yeah I'm not worried , VTR

This comes into the category of " irritating" stands. England will have no trouble turning a lead of , say , 165 , into 400 with ample time to finish things. And to be honest I'm still expecting one to bring three and the whole thing to end quickly... But it does perhaps show that the gulf between the teams is being slightly overstated by circumstances. I think England still have improvement to make...

Stokes does the trick at last... Good catch Crawley : having a good match

Needed that.  Pretorius is a bit of a bits and pieces cricketer at this level , but he played well today .

Two to get.  Lunch is near...

And even as I type Wood bowls QDK ! Lovely ball...ends a fine innings

As so often it's Stokes who ends the ''irritating stand''. Pretorius going to a sharp take in the gully by Crawley.

I meant to say last night how good England's catching has been in this innings.

And one brings two as a Wood delivery beats de Kock and breaks a bail!

Extra 30 minutes for the session now with 9 down?

No need...five for Wood

Well bowled... Bring on the Boring Third Innings...

But England have done this well

That's it! A fivefer for Wood ends South Africa's innings and brings lunch.

Option of the follow on is there although in this instance I wouldn't take it. Give our bowlers a rest and deny the hosts' opening bats all the time that goes with lunch to prepare. Ok, Olly?

Richly deserved five-for for Wood.

Would agree that, having not blown South Africa away this morning, they should and will bat on and take the lead over 450.

OK as expected England batting again...should be pretty straightforward...though the admirable Nortje is revving it up ...

Bags of time. Main thing is to give the bowlers a nice - well earned - rest : they might have some work to do tomorrow.

Wood has come back with a bang , hasn't he ? All those Tests with nothing better than two wicket hauls , and now... Nice to imagine he might stay fit for a while...

Great irony excessive rain has enabled me to watch the cricket today after all. Glad to see my prediction of a 4 day test is still on target!

Notable that its genuine pace thats been the main threat in this game, I know everyone goes into meltdown at the suggestion of Archer and Wood playing in the same series let alone game but you only have to look at how placid its been much of the time when Woakes, Curran, Broad, Philander, Pretorious etc have been bowling compared to the carnage of Nortje and Wood. I also note the collective rage of the internet when Australia dared not play Starc and "only" had two 90mph bolwers in their side. The kookabura is almost useless after 30 overs unless you have pace.

Anyway its really gratifying to see Wood come back from all his injuries as a better player than the one when he was young. He was always threatening at county level but was a couple of yards shorter on pace than he is now, there is quite a difference between 89 and 92mph as we have seen against England may times in recent years.
I did note the commentators were keen to make a point of how popular he was in the dressing and what a great guy he is etc. Maybe contrasts a bit with the way Archers been talked about?

Very sad to see Philander pull up in his firstlast over, but maybe also a bit of putting him out of his misery. Whilst he looked every bit as lethal as ever in the first innings of the first test hes been a bit of a passenger since, like most of the SA team tbf. The contributions of De Kock and Nortje to this series have been huge, the rest of the team have been so bad they are still getting soundly beaten it seems.

I don't think anyone is against the idea of both Wood and Archer playing...

More wary of how England might use them given their penchant for asking fast bowlers to bang it in short to the exclusion of more direct attacks on the stumps. And , I think , some doubts as to how both/either might survive a heavy workload if it doesn't all happen
quickly.
Fears allayed somewhat by Wood's performance in successive matches. Although they were still talking about "tiredness" and waffling about his readiness on the morning of this match.

I think they will feature in the same team at some stage. Equally I don't think it is something that should be rushed for the sake of it.
England have at present a handy bunch of pace bowlers when all fit
- if they ever are. The four here (plus Stokes) : Anderson , Stone - maybe Roland -Jones (remember him ?) as well as Archer...can pick the horses for courses , as Australia did so effectively last Ashes...

By the way I wouldn't say facing Woakes in this match has been at all "Placid " ! He bowled some rippers and with a bit more luck he might well have taken a bag.

Crawley and Sibley cashing in here. As they should....but Crawley is gone now ...56/1 and his record of increasing his PB every innings sadly comes to an end ...

England still cruising.

I dont see it being rushed for the sake of it, so much as being the obvious thing to do in Sri Lanka IF they can both be fully fit at the same time which is the real key. Id rather have Archer banging it too short than Curran trying to bounce people out lets just put it that way.
Its not picking them for the sake of it, its picking them because with pace or height (and ideally both) its very hard to make the kookabura dangerous after the first few overs. Weve seen it time and again even when England have been on top on these seam freindly pitches. And in Sri Lanka the medium pacers were pretty useless, as they have been almost every time ones bowled for england in sri lanka. Fast/tall bowlers have had some success there. Last time they were blessed with 3 good attacking spinners, this time they will have Bess (gone from overhyped to dropped in the space of a few days) and a tin of custard the way things are looking. They cant rely on honest plodders just hoping a sri lankan batsman gets themselves out and Root to finally get his five fer.
If theres two bowlers who can make something happening on a pudding then it would be for the sake of it to pick the likes of Woakes, Curran, Broad, Overton ahead of them.

So yes we agree and disagree. Come summertime theres plenty of opportunity for Anderson to hope the test is over in 3 days, Curran to take wickets at 78mph, and Broad to have his once a series match winning performance.

Some level of horses for courses, but this was the course and still people seemed to have their gasts flabbered over the idea that Archer might be a better pick than Bess (if fit). Similar for other away series, England have so rarely had genuine controlled pace in the side (Harmisson for a couple of years, Finn for one series) we seem to have a distrust of it. If the guys are fit play them if its not a rainy day in Trent bridge when someone forgot to cut the grass.

Gooseberry wrote:
predictable outcomes :

The game is over by sunday lunch strengthening the case for 4 day tests and calling Denly rubbish

One of the journos, think it was Will MacPherson said if they get word the pitches in SL will be like they were last time, they’ll probably rest Broad/Anderson and just take the real fast guys like Wood/Archer to offer the variety of 3/4 overs of pure pace, in relief of spin.

Would go along with Broad’s comments the other day about bowling seam in Sri Lanka being “a waste of time” (never afraid to speak his mind is Stuart!)

Agree with that Ollie. England are lucky enough to have a fifth bowler in Stokes worthy of the name yet we seem terrified of being able accommodate one quick let alone two like many other sides do.

England seem to be making hard work of it with the bat given SA are missing 3 senior bowlers and Nortje is crackered. Theres something about Sibley that makes him look nervous regardless of how many runs he has and the game position. Think hes shut a few of his critics up with his scores this series though!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:One of the journos, think it was Will MacPherson said if they get word the pitches in SL will be like they were last time, they’ll probably rest Broad/Anderson and just take the real fast guys like Wood/Archer to offer the variety of 3/4 overs of pure pace, in relief of spin.

Would go along with Broad’s comments the other day about bowling seam in Sri Lanka being “a waste of time” (never afraid to speak his mind is Stuart!)

Interestingly, when NZ were out there in 2019 - Southee/Boult/CDG took 13 wickets between them in the second Test! So hopefully England get their scouting right...

Tea. 86/2 and a lead of over 300. Feel it's more about time and grinding the South Africans further down than runs although a target of 500 would be rather nice. Bat the rest of today and 90 minutes tomorrow morning would be my ideal preference.

Don't know how bad Philander is but it doesn't look good for the home side in his last Test. I wonder how he'll get on as a Kolpak for Somerset in our summer … he's got skill and ability but I'm less sure about his willingness to run through brick walls for his new employer.

Meanwhile, I'm changing my view about Paterson. I didn't see much to write home about in the previous Test (his debut) but he's impressed in this one and deserved Denly's wicket before the break.

Hey if by some miracle both are fit in Sri Lanka I agree that might be a good time to play the two fast men...I had thought we were talking about this series. And I remain firmly of the view that England were correct not to take a punt on on a bowler not fully fit just because it was a bouncy surface. The attack they ended up with did the job in the first innings though it might still miss the spin option tomorrow if SA can summon some resolve.
I doubt either Broad or Anderson will be particularly keen to tour Sri Lanka anyway. And don't think it will best suit Woakes.

Where we differ is I'm less convinced than you , goose , that just bombarding the batsmen with pace is the cure for all ills. Has to be properly directed - and Archer's record since the Ashes suggests he hasn't quite got the knack with the Kookaburra yet. Still think the spinners will be important in March...

Anyway you know they will both be injured again by then

Hi guildford...grinding them down is it now , isn't it ? Not pretty ; but effective , I guess. If I weren't on a few days off work I would have bailed by now as it's a long way to 500...

I agree with you about Paterson. Hardly the new Pollock but he's growing into his game and could be handy for SA as a control option...has been good today.

Sibley gone now after another useful forty odd...not his best innings perhaps but again he has contributed at the top of the order ...

Wonder if we will see any fireworks from Stokes now ?

I think we are agreeing with each other aggressively here Alfie

I have absolutely no issue with them not picking players who are doubtful for fitness, but I was excited at the prospect we might have got to see them both bowl together here.

I also agree with your point re: direction (go back a couple of posts), I guess Im maybe more optimistic about Archers ability to bowl fast and straight when fit than you are. We have seen him do that in limited overs more so than tests, but I dont think he was really 100% for the tests he did play this winter.

The spinners absolutely will matter no question (even the NZ pair who are pretty medicocre took 14 in two tests just to counter that earlier comment), but as I noted England wont have 3 who genuinely deserved a place in the side. They will have Bess and a hope Rashid is fit to bowl 30 in an innings. Again, Id much rather see Stokes, Archer, Wood given license to bowl as fast as they can for 3 over bursts than 7 overs of medium pace to back up whoever is fit to be a spinner.

What happens in the white ball games after this may change the scenery a bit for England mind. If Rashid and Mo show they are properly fit/full of confidence I might be a bit more confident about the spin resources for the tests, and its harder to fit 3 spinners and 3 seamers into an 11 even if one is Mo.

Stokes is such a card isnt he. Utter lack of respect

This win will keep England’s very slim chances of making the World Test Championship final alive (I know we all care about it!). Essentially, England will need to beat Sri Lanka 2-0 and win at least four of the six home tests this summer. Then it’s likely England will need to draw the India series, or win it, next winter, whilst hoping that Australia and New Zealand can take points off India along the way (India are the visiting side for both of these). If all that happens, England might make the final at the expense of India.

Australia’s place in the final looks secure with three series left as they’ll be favourites for all three - Bangladesh, home to India and South Africa.

alfie wrote:Hey if by some miracle both are fit in Sri Lanka I agree that might be a good time to play the two fast men...I had thought we were talking about this series. And I remain firmly of the view that England were correct not to take a punt on on a bowler not fully fit just because it was a bouncy surface.  The attack they ended up with did the job in the first innings though it might still miss the spin option tomorrow if SA can summon some resolve.
I doubt either Broad or Anderson will be particularly keen to tour Sri Lanka anyway.  And don't think it will best suit Woakes.

Where we differ is I'm less convinced than you , goose , that just bombarding the batsmen with pace is the cure for all ills.  Has to be properly directed - and Archer's record since the Ashes suggests he hasn't quite got the knack with the Kookaburra yet. Still think the spinners will be important in March...

Anyway you know they will both be injured again by then

We have to take it day by day, week by week with Mark Wood as we well know! And similarly, Archer's played an awful lot of cricket around the world the past 2/3 years, a long break might not be the worst thing for him either.

As JDizzle says - they'll need to get the scouting right...you'd have thought SL would prepare turning wickets though, especially with Leach a fitness doubt, Ali a maybe...if those two don't make it, the spinning department for England is looking very inexperienced, despite Bess's fine work in this series.

Cook was making the point yesterday, similar to the one you noted today Alfie about having the variety of options in the seam bowling department...it's not the worst position to be in to be able to rotate a battery of good players!

Hi Alfie - Stokes doesn't need to be in a rush to light the blue touch paper. I would like him there in the morning to really p*ss the hosts off then.

Mind you, the way he's gone about the last 3 balls (2 fours and a wild miss) from dobber Pretorius suggests he's taking no notice of me!

I think Root looks quite happy to let Stokes enjoy himslef at this point. It would be nice if Buttler can have a low pressure opportunity to do his "specialist 7" thing with Root at the other end and bat his way back to confidence today/tomorrow morning.

Yeah there really isn't any hurry...but I think Stokes fancies this SA attack are just about there to be taken , what with injuries , absences and a lot of work already in this match...

Plus although he can do "restrained" in the team's interest , it isn't really his preferred option

330 ahead he might have a licence ?

If he doesnt now when does he? Also looking at the way a few balls have behaved its reaching that point where you'll get out playing defensively as much as hitting.

Absolutely no excuse for Englnd not to bowl out SA for chips and drinks, pitch is every bit as spicy as predicted now.

It shouldn't matter in the scheme of things but I did feel Stokes was trying to do too much too soon.

Why the rush? Make 'em suffer. I would expect that to make their wickets fall all the easier.