England's Winter

First topic message reminder :

As per LT's original post:
New Zealand

T20 Internationals

Friday November 1st - Christchurch
Sunday November 3rd - Wellington
Tuesday November 5th - Nelson
Friday November 8th - Napier
Sunday November 10th - Auckland

Squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Tom Banton (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Pat Brown (Worcestershire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)


Tests

Wednesday November 20th - Tauranga
Thursday November 28th - Hamilton

Squad
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Warwickshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)



South Africa

Tests

Thursday 26th December - Centurion
Friday January 3rd - Cape Town
Thursday January 16th - Port Elizabeth
Friday January 24th - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill


ODI
Tuesday 4th February - Cape Town
Friday 7th February - Durban
Sunday 9th February - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill

T20 Internationals

Wednesday 12th February - East London
Friday 14th February - Durban
Sunday 16th February - Centurion


Sri Lanka

March 7th - Warm up 1, Katunayake (3 day)
March 12th - Warm up 2, Colombo (3 day)
March 19th - 1st Test, Galle
March 27th - 2nd Test, Colombo

Think Root wishes he'd declared already

Yes England have been a bit careless here. It really shouldn't matter of course, but as ever there's something for them to learn and work on. I don't really fancy SA making 200 second time round if I'm honest

Not just Stokes in a hurry... Unlike the chap in the Vatican , it seems young Ollie isn't quite infallible

Suddenly starts to look as if the declaration timing may not be an issue at all ? Think England have enough runs already to be honest ...the odd ball has started misbehaving so I doubt SA are going to outdo all their previous efforts in this series when they come to bat again.
But no doubt they will want as many more as they can collect - and they won't particularly want to get the bowlers into action again too soon...so not tonight.

Jos

But they just might be bowling tonight...Buttler's wretched series continues and the bowlers are going to be working one way or the other.

Sam Curran will be hoping it is his turn to hit a few in the middle...

Theres still two days Alfie, so if times and issue then England can still lose. I do think as well they wanted to give Buttler a chance to play absolutely without fear and pressure to get back in form...but hes still failed which is quite worrying! Some flattering for the SA bowlers, but if their batsmen last 80 overs on this which is going to break up more and more England should be really embarrassed.

I only mentioned the declaration above jokingly as Root took one to "the box".

Ha...I didn't mean to suggest there was any chance of a declaration tonight...I am sure the plan was to bat well into tomorrow morning. But once Pope followed Stokes the being bowled out scenario began to loom...
Buttler looks shot to be honest. Dobell has suggested he should be looking to just concentrate on the white ball game now and that dismissal doesn't do anything to contradict that view.

They'll be past "guildford fourth innings cut off point " shortly anyway

And indeed they are now past it...lead at 405.

Root not quite timing the ball today but Curran is ticking over...

Might be a close tonight yet ? Unusual in the modern era if they do but the approach doesn't seem exactly one of "play for tomorrow " : certainly Curran is going for everything .

No weather threatening , is there ?

alfie wrote:
Buttler looks shot to be honest. Dobell has suggested he should be looking to just concentrate on the white ball game now and that dismissal doesn't do anything to contradict that view.

Ditto Bairstow but I doubt his ego would allow it. Pope or Burns to keep in Sir Lanka?

Gooseberry wrote:

alfie wrote:
Buttler looks shot to be honest. Dobell has suggested he should be looking to just concentrate on the white ball game now and that dismissal doesn't do anything to contradict that view.

Ditto Bairstow but I doubt his ego would allow it. Pope or Burns to keep in Sir Lanka?  

Well in all seriousness Bairstow's Test record is a great deal better than Buttler's - particularly in the keeper/batsman role. I think they'll probably go for Foakes as first choice in Sri Lanka though.

Meanwhile as Woakes goes cheaply after Curran's entertaining cameo it seems certain England will be bowling tonight...

alfie wrote:And indeed they are now past it...lead at 405.

Root not quite timing the ball today but Curran is ticking over...

Might be a close tonight yet ? Unusual in the modern era if they do but the approach doesn't seem exactly one of "play for tomorrow " : certainly Curran is going for everything .

No weather threatening , is there ?

Yep. If anyone has a bag, the win must be in it. Still feel things could have been done differently and better today by England.

There again, South Africa have a lot more to do differently and better.

Time for an Olly type stat -
A not out score of 23 or more would give Wood a batting average of 100 or more for the series.

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:And indeed they are now past it...lead at 405.

Root not quite timing the ball today but Curran is ticking over...

Might be a close tonight yet ? Unusual in the modern era if they do but the approach doesn't seem exactly one of "play for tomorrow " : certainly Curran is going for everything .

No weather threatening , is there ?

Yep. If anyone has a bag, the win must be in it. Still feel things could have been done differently and better today by England.

There again, South Africa have a lot more to do differently and better.

Think SA have done as well as can be expected in the circumstances today. The first two days mind....

England have maybe been a bit lax today, but they have that luxury.

Wood averaging 90 with the bat and 13 with the ball in the series currently

guildfordbat wrote:Time for an Olly type stat -
A not out score of 23 or more would give Wood a batting average of 100 or more for the series.

I am hanging out for that to happen ...just one more big hit needed

Was about to ask who was going to be first to mention Roots conversion rate of 50's to 100s but the commentator got in before I could finish typing

Another fifty for Root...not his most fluent but underlines his consistency

Lead 456 : plenty , I think. Not sure they are too bothered about bowling tonight ...but alas Wood will have to settle for an average of just 47.5

Nine down and Broad makes his entrance ...

Rats! Wood bowled for 18. Shame he didn't get a 100 series average but 47.5 still isn't too shoddy!

I had a lot of reservations about Wood going on this tour - essentially him being so injury prone and him rarely producing an effective return with the ball despite often looking threatening - but he's really won me over in the last two Tests.

Sheesh what a grab that is by Du Plessis!

Hendricks gets five ...awesome catch by Faf ends Root and England's innings . 248 all out and they don't get to annoy SA by hurrying their openers tomorrow morning.

Don't think it will matter much. SA get marks for effort today Guess England have left some runs out there but a target of 466 : well good luck with that...

alfie wrote:Hendricks gets five ...awesome catch by Faf ends Root and England's innings . 248 all out and they don't get to annoy SA by hurrying their openers tomorrow morning.

Don't think it will matter much.  SA get marks for effort today     Guess England have left some runs out there but a target of 466 : well good luck with that...

Alfie - have to agree although never like giving the opposition openers all evening and pre-start in the morning to prepare. Let it go this once! We won the first innings by a mile and that should comfortably see us to victory regardless of how well South Africa do from here.

For the stats fans, Root has now passed some distinguished guys in the all-time Test runs list - namely Haynes, Clive Lloyd, Mark Taylor, Mohammad Yousuf and Greenidge.

He's quite close to Cowdrey and not that far behind Bell and Atherton. All being well, Root should comfortably pass 10,000 runs for England and it could be far more than that.

sirfredperry wrote:For the stats fans, Root has now passed some distinguished guys in the all-time Test runs list - namely Haynes, Clive Lloyd, Mark Taylor, Mohammad Yousuf and Greenidge.

He's quite close to Cowdrey and not that far behind Bell and Atherton. All being well, Root should comfortably pass 10,000 runs for England and it could be far more than that.

Loved Cooks answer to why he thought he had managed to score more runs than any other england test player .... "I played more tests".

I may have misheard but I think they said Root was second in England players for test 50s now which is pretty ridiculous given how far hes behind a few players in runs scored, but absolutely shows how consistent hes been in getting decent scores.

Will be interesting to see how long this one lasts. I expect a bit more fight from SA, and some frustrating partnerships, but a loss for them of around 200 runs. Realistically, England could field a bowling attack of Jimmy Ormond, Amjad Khan and Darren Pattinson and still win this one

Agrewd VTR Not far off what SA were left with as bowlers and they cleared up England in under a day. Couple of staffers maybe playing for their careers but it's a case of when. Might be thebtempration from england to try and hold wood and Stokes back too much which may make it drag on a bit. But the amount of uneven bounce and bit of lateral movement the pitch has been giving means players will just get out no matter how well they bat

Expect it to be over after around 60-70 overs. That said, most of the South African batting order are due some big scores - I hope they don’t all combine in this innings!

Well SA survive the first 30 minutes with no alarms...only about 13 hours to go

Might not be too easy for England to knock them over this time if they are determined to fight it out properly : pitch is generally OK for batting though a number of balls started doing something yesterday. And it may be a bit slower today. Plus going again in the second innings after less than a full days rest isn't as easy as first time around for the bowlers.
Just the same you'd think wickets will fall now and again no matter how hard the SA bats concentrate ...and there is probably a point at which the hopelessness of their task will cause a loss of serious resolve. Not sure how long it will take : could be done with a rush this evening ; might run into tomorrow. But I'd reckon the end is pretty much inevitable...

Root to do a bit of bowling in this innings ?

There we go, the partnership breaker that is the drinks break does the trick

Good old drink break ! Been a few wickets straight after intervals in this series...

Might be two in the over too ?

Think Dussie is gone here...no : saved by the drs !

Curran with the new ball:

Lots of talk that Wood should get it, but neither Anderson nor Broad had that pace and they have been the most successful pair ever by a mile. It feels England are trying to replicate that. And using Curran as a left armer means theres a change of angles every over to keep the batsmen honest so I get the thinking. 
England have been grooming him for this for a while and did give Woakes an opportunity to impress overseas ahead of him last year. 

But is it a failed experiment?

Hes been one of the two opening bowlers 10 times in tests, and taken 5 wickets at 69 a piece. Overall his figures are 37 wickets at 31 a piece, which isnt too bad (somewhat padded by the Ireland game) but as an opener hes been useless. 

For comparison in the past year, many the same games paired with Curran, Broads taken 50 at 24.  

Now I think most of us are agreed that its pointless Curran being in the side for Sri Lanka at all. And the theory is that Anderson and Broad will be fit for the summer so it may be that he naturally loses that role in the short term. But long term England need to find a better option than him with the new ball or get some serious coaching in.

That was excellent bowling ...and a brave (or desperate?) review by the batsman.

Would have been a pair for van der Dussen : I have some sympathy for him as I think he's been thrown to the lions a bit in being shoved up to number three to accommodate Bavuma in his preferred spot down the order... OK , Faf hasn't been in good nick and you can't expect de Kock to keep wicket and bat three ; but why does the new
boy have to do all the dirty work ? Might there not have been a case for bringing in Petersen at three (I understand he regularly bats there ) rather than Bavuma just strolling back into the softer spot ? Politics maybe...

Gooseberry wrote:Curran with the new ball:

Lots of talk that Wood should get it, but neither Anderson nor Broad had that pace and they have been the most successful pair ever by a mile. It feels England are trying to replicate that. And using Curran as a left armer means theres a change of angles every over to keep the batsmen honest so I get the thinking. 
England have been grooming him for this for a while and did give Woakes an opportunity to impress overseas ahead of him last year. 

But is it a failed experiment?

Hes been one of the two opening bowlers 10 times in tests, and taken 5 wickets at 69 a piece. Overall his figures are 37 wickets at 31 a piece, which isnt too bad (somewhat padded by the Ireland game) but as an opener hes been useless. 

For comparison in the past year, many the same games paired with Curran, Broads taken 50 at 24.  

Now I think most of us are agreed that its pointless Curran being in the side for Sri Lanka at all. And the theory is that Anderson and Broad will be fit for the summer so it may be that he naturally loses that role in the short term. But long term England need to find a better option than him with the new ball or get some serious coaching in.

Really not a Curran fan , eh , goose ?

Haven't gone looking at the stats but slightly surprised by your figures . So in ten new ball spells he's conceded 345 runs ? I'm surprised he's bowled long enough to do so ...some of his new ball spells here have been very short.

Regardless : as you say , his overall figures aren't at all bad. Add in some useful (sometimes vital) batting efforts and I'd say he's generally earned his corn. I note he's taken important wickets on more than one occasion in this series , by the way.


Pointless taking him to Sri Lanka ? Maybe : but if Stokes got injured I'm not sure how else you'd balance the team - assuming a lot of spinners : Woakes probably not perfectly suited to their pitches either. We will see.

Hey I don't think he will be a new ball regular , home or away , whatever he does in the way of taking coaching . But it has suited England to use him this way in this series ; and overall their plans have worked quite well. It is about the whole , rather than the individual , sometimes.

Doubt we will see eye to eye on Curran. Ask me again in two years

Just as I thought SA were through to lunch for one down , Big Ben strikes...

Bit more bounce : Elgar made a mess of that and that's the end of a stubborn innings and a disappointing series for the experienced opener.

Talking about poor series : here is du Plessis. Wonder what is going through his mind ? Has played some great rear guards in the past ...not sure he has one in him today.

Lunch 90/2... England won't be too dissatisfied with that

I'd be more confident with Woakes replacing Stokes in that scenario than Curran tend to think he's the better batsmen and can offer more control if needed.

I think we have to remember Curran is only 21 and very much learning as he goes. Broad and Anderson were very callow at that age, nothing like the players they became. He's got a man of the series award already, and lots of time to improve

alfie wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Curran with the new ball:

Lots of talk that Wood should get it, but neither Anderson nor Broad had that pace and they have been the most successful pair ever by a mile. It feels England are trying to replicate that. And using Curran as a left armer means theres a change of angles every over to keep the batsmen honest so I get the thinking. 
England have been grooming him for this for a while and did give Woakes an opportunity to impress overseas ahead of him last year. 

But is it a failed experiment?

Hes been one of the two opening bowlers 10 times in tests, and taken 5 wickets at 69 a piece. Overall his figures are 37 wickets at 31 a piece, which isnt too bad (somewhat padded by the Ireland game) but as an opener hes been useless. 

For comparison in the past year, many the same games paired with Curran, Broads taken 50 at 24.  

Now I think most of us are agreed that its pointless Curran being in the side for Sri Lanka at all. And the theory is that Anderson and Broad will be fit for the summer so it may be that he naturally loses that role in the short term. But long term England need to find a better option than him with the new ball or get some serious coaching in.

Really not a Curran fan , eh , goose ?

Haven't gone looking at the stats but slightly surprised by your figures . So in ten new ball spells he's conceded 345 runs ? I'm surprised he's bowled long enough to do so ...some of his new ball spells here have been very short.

Regardless : as you say , his overall figures aren't at all bad. Add in some useful (sometimes vital) batting efforts and I'd say he's generally earned his corn.  I note he's taken important wickets on more than one occasion in this series , by the way.


Pointless taking him to Sri Lanka ? Maybe : but if Stokes got injured I'm not sure how else you'd balance the team - assuming a lot of spinners : Woakes probably not perfectly suited to their pitches either. We will see.

Hey I don't think he will be a new ball regular , home or away , whatever he does in the way of taking coaching . But it has suited England to use him this way in this series ; and overall their plans have worked quite well. It is about the whole , rather than the individual , sometimes.

Doubt we will see eye to eye on Curran.  Ask me again in two years

Hi Alfie ... yeah tbh I was surprised by just how bad his new ball figures were too. I was prompted to check because Id seen so much noise asking why Woods not opening. The real tell is the difference between him and Broad, which is quite staggering really, although its not entirely a straight comparison it does paint a pretty vivid picture.

Its not rubbishing the kid to say hes been useless with the new ball, its backed up by the data. Home or away the new ball is key, especially if the opposition is batting first its pretty much your only hope. 
And I did note that Woakes was given a chance ahead of him and failed too. Im not picking on Curran here, Im just being honest. Hes been given a decent run with the new ball and consistently failed to take wickets. Its not working. 

OK in terms of SL yes as a Stokes replacement its between him and Woakes, so maybe the choice of words was exaggerated. But the underlying point doesnt change, it would be bonkers to open with any of the medium pacers out there and its hard to see a place in the XI for him Woakes or Broad if they have fit pace bowlers and spinners (OK if!). Essentially what I was trying to convey is that it shouldn't be anyones plan A for him to be opening the bowling there even if youd have him in the side, and for the home summer plan A would be Anderson and Broad (although that may be wishful thinking) so they may not need to "drop" him from the role as such in the short term. 

Its a question England can defer to some extent fitness permitting but at some point they need to work out who the openers are going to be overseas. Curran will need to improve a lot on his returns to be anywhere near a replacement for Anderson and or Broad, and that only one of two. We appear to be on a page on that. 

As for this series I think we disagree; not on the logic of having given him a go but on how useful hes been. At least with the new ball anyway, hes been rubbish with it. And only adequate as a bowler for the rest of the time, his figures aren't great (compared to other England bowlers in the series) although he has managed to improve his economy a lot from his early tests (at the expense of taking wickets?). 

I'm not saying he doesn't has a future for England or the potential to improve, and its clear the coaches like him and want the left arm option in. Some talk about his batting, long term if he can learn to do more than just swing for the fences he could be the Stokes replacement eventually. But then they used to think that about Broad. if we could choose one would we want him to develop as a bowler who can average under 30 or a 5th bowler who could bat 6? Obviously an out and out Stokes is a once in a generation global player, true all rounders like him are the exception. But 4 or 5 years time when hes reaching the end of his career Curran should be at the peak of his, and currantly (yes) is the next best thing England have (unless you asks Chris Woakes) to enable 5 proper bowlers.

OK whos gonna say it ....bet England wish they had a spinner for the fourth innings.

England really have become rubbish at reviews this series , haven't they ? Another wasted referral for something that never looked right and wasnt really even close to touching the bat... Just overenthusiastic again...

Won't matter in this game but they need to sort it for Sri Lanka where bat/pad & lbw drs might be crucial.

alfie wrote:England really have become rubbish at reviews this series , haven't they ?  Another wasted referral for something that never looked right and wasnt really even close to touching the bat... Just overenthusiastic again...

Won't matter in this game but they need to sort it for Sri Lanka where bat/pad & lbw drs might be crucial.

As soon as things aren't going quite to plan Root tends to panic with his reviews.

On that second point another crucial reason why someone like Foakes is so important in Asia, a specialist keeper has a better feel for things like that.

I get where you're coming from , goose ...though I do think you have always been just a bit over critical of Curran. Whatever ...I am not actually picking a team for Sri Lanka yet as fitness concerns are going to be a big consideration.
But if you want two out and out fast bowlers in the team there then obviously no room for Sam. Whether that happens - or even is the best plan ? we shall see. Pitch conditions might come into it . So might considerations of batting length.

I am glad though that we have Curran , among a promising group of pace options - with a little bit of difference. Like I say , will wait and see...

Soul Requiem wrote:

alfie wrote:England really have become rubbish at reviews this series , haven't they ?  Another wasted referral for something that never looked right and wasnt really even close to touching the bat... Just overenthusiastic again...

Won't matter in this game but they need to sort it for Sri Lanka where bat/pad & lbw drs might be crucial.

As soon as things aren't going quite to plan Root tends to panic with his reviews.

On that second point another crucial reason why someone like Foakes is so important in Asia, a specialist keeper has a better feel for things like that.

Well I'm not sure Buttler was the driving force for that particular review . But in other cases here Root has clearly gone with his judgement...and it hasn't had a good record. Probably fair to say a regular red ball keeper would tend to call the close ones better ...or it could just be the luck of the draw

Wouldn't say Root has panicked , exactly. Just a bit overexcited...

The other point re the new ball is that Wood really never has taken it for England...even in the white all game he tended to come on as a change bowler.
Thing is he's not really reliant on swing so it kind of makes sense to use the player who does want the chance to move the ball in the air early. Which doesn't mean this is always going to produce a slew of wickets ... But Wood isn't harmed by being held back.
You could certainly make a case for Woakes with the new ball. Back in the Ashes series he seemed strangely out of favour ; but I often thought he'd have been a better opening partner for Broad than Archer - for similar reasons.

Options.

Gooseberry wrote:OK whos gonna say it ....bet England wish they had a spinner for the fourth innings.

Nah. Got Root Can always buy a wicket or two...though it might cost a few bob...

Van der Dussen , after that narrow escape first over , has booked his place in the team for a while now , I think : excellent 58 not out ...

Meanwhile , Woakes is giving the speed gun a bit of a workout : some serious heat at times today. Bowling well

alfie wrote:I get where you're coming from , goose ...though I do think you have always been just a bit over critical of Curran.  Whatever ...I am not actually picking a team for Sri Lanka yet as fitness concerns are going to be a big consideration.
But if you want two out and out fast bowlers in the team there then obviously no room for Sam. Whether that happens - or even is the best plan ? we shall see. Pitch conditions might come into it . So might considerations of batting length.

I am glad though that we have Curran , among a promising group of pace options - with a little bit of difference. Like I say , will wait and see...

21 year old, 17 test matches, averages 27 with the bat and 30 with the ball. I'm not sure how people don't rate the kid myself...

And the ludicrous thing is he has so much room to improve. He's already bowling consistently a few mph quicker than he was in that initial India series in 2018 (was more 78-80mph then, is more 82-84mph now), and he plays spin very well with the bat.

Clearly continuing to put on pace with the ball (if he can get upto 85-88mph ideally), and learning to bat on the bouncier surfaces with the bat are the next developments over the coming years, but he's a very handy player to have as an option in the present, and has the potential to be a Stokes-esque talent half a decade down the line.

Good to have you on board with the Sam Curran train , Olly

England being made to work for this. Dussie doing very well and the out of form Faf battling away...
Hot day ; bowlers toiling - with the odd ball jumping but nothing outrageous to help them...and unless Denly is going to have a go the spin options seem a bit skinny.

Sam gets one to fly wide of slip ! That was a stroke of luck for Faf...and good bowling from Curran.

145/2. If they're 313/3 at close of play England might not sleep so soundly.

If.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

alfie wrote:I get where you're coming from , goose ...though I do think you have always been just a bit over critical of Curran.  Whatever ...I am not actually picking a team for Sri Lanka yet as fitness concerns are going to be a big consideration.
But if you want two out and out fast bowlers in the team there then obviously no room for Sam. Whether that happens - or even is the best plan ? we shall see. Pitch conditions might come into it . So might considerations of batting length.

I am glad though that we have Curran , among a promising group of pace options - with a little bit of difference. Like I say , will wait and see...

21 year old, 17 test matches, averages 27 with the bat and 30 with the ball. I'm not sure how people don't rate the kid myself...

And the ludicrous thing is he has so much room to improve. He's already bowling consistently a few mph quicker than he was in that initial India series in 2018 (was more 78-80mph then, is more 82-84mph now), and he plays spin very well with the bat.

Clearly continuing to put on pace with the ball (if he can get upto 85-88mph ideally), and learning to bat on the bouncier surfaces with the bat are the next developments over the coming years, but he's a very handy player to have as an option in the present, and has the potential to be a Stokes-esque talent half a decade down the line.

Yet that India series was the only one where he was really a genuine wicket taker, and every seamer who played in it got excellent figures. 
His bating and bowling averages have been steadily heading the wrong ways since. 

And again the criticism is not that hes only 21 and not as good as Stokes yet, its that the experiment with giving him the new ball hasn't worked. 

And rather than setting the bar that he has to be the Botham  Flintoff Stokes can we be happy that he could be what passes for an all rounder in normal circumstances? 

Hes going to have to add something,  more variation (like Broad) or Anderson like abilities two extract movement from anything to be a proper threat overseas. I dont think hes ever going to be able to bowl fast or get much bounce due to his small frame, he already looks like hes bustling in as hard as he can so it'll have to come from skills with the ball. With the bat if hes going to move up the order long term he will have to prize his wicket more, there was talk on Sky yesterday that he has ample potential to do that but is currently not being asked to by England. For all his average he does have a high score of 78 in a team of centurions. But just one of those, lets not be greedy and unrealistic, either get his batting average up to the mid 30s and be able to make the odd rearguard century or become a bowler who gets picked because they can take wickets anywhere not just to give a left arm option.

 I dont think hes either yet, which isn't to say he cant be, but hiding behind his overall test figures / age and the man of series against India ignore the reality of where hes at as a bowler and batsman. Im sure the coaches are sitting there thinking " well he took a bunch of wickets on a green top at home so no need to help him to get better" and more then they were with Moeen when he started his career ruining Indias lives at home with bat and ball.

Dom Bess has never been as good as he is right now on the keyboard selectors panel.

Denly , like Root earlier , proving expensive. SA playing this well. If the spinners get tonked Root will be forced to really work his five pace men. Will be glad he has five of them !
Wood has been used sparingly ...just in his ninth over and still cranking it up Testing the batsmen with the odd variable bounce.
A feeling a wicket is just around the corner. Or is that wishful thinking ?
Dussie to 82. Deserves a hundred here...

England bowlers getting a bit testy ...Faf has annoyed them . And they didn't really expect this level of resistance ...
To be honest I'm surprised only two wickets have fallen. Dussie has played really well but Faf has never looked at all comfortable.

Long way to the new ball and SA will be past halfway by then so England could really do with a break.

And there it is...Stokes of course. Faf plays on...181/3

Stokes retires faf in both sense ...had to be! International headline glory grabber of the year does it again. 

Feeling less twitchy now, but still some hard yards for England.