Champions Cup Round 5 & 6

First topic message reminder :

For the chats

formerly known as Sam wrote:...Players signing for Exeter know they'll be in the playoffs fighting for silverware every season...

There were also a few seasons when Exeter seemed to revitalize the careers of players who were on the out at their old club. Waldrom is the stand-out example and Julian Salvi did well from leicester too. Alex Cuthbert hasn't really worked out in the same way.

Saracens also seemed to get the best out of people, turning Jim Hamilton from a walking penalty into a solid backup Premiership player. Their success with Will Skelton is a high profile success story, while Calum Clark has been a disappointment.

Rugby Fan wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:...Players signing for Exeter know they'll be in the playoffs fighting for silverware every season...

Saracens also seemed to get the best out of people........

Money motivates most people. The more money, the more motivated.

Saracens coaching staff and the setup is first class. As above they generally add value to a player. They cheat with finances but there set up is the best around for me.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Saracens coaching staff and the setup is first class. As above they generally add value to a player. They cheat with finances but there set up is the best around for me.

Whichever way you cut it, they've bought their success. Whether that's the facilities, the staff, the players....

Whilst some may be happy to take the attitude that 'you can't help but admire what they've achieved', it is tainted and sadly, most of us knew it from the get-go. Therefore, what they've achieved is rotten from top to bottom. Always will be.

They have and they havent. I've been a vocal critic of their accountants for years on here. It's a separate point to their coaching however.

No 7&1/2 wrote:They have and they havent. I've been a vocal critic of their accountants for years on here. It's a separate point to their coaching however.

In WWII, the SS were undoubtedly the most superb soldiers in any Army of any nation. They had the best training, the best equipment and were driven by collective zeal.

Khouli Khan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:They have and they havent. I've been a vocal critic of their accountants for years on here. It's a separate point to their coaching however.

In WWII, the SS were undoubtedly the most superb soldiers in any Army of any nation. They had the best training, the best equipment and were driven by collective zeal.

I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.

Ha. It perhaps better demonstrates that some people cant fairly judge things once they feel aggrieved.

LondonTiger wrote:

Khouli Khan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:They have and they havent. I've been a vocal critic of their accountants for years on here. It's a separate point to their coaching however.

In WWII, the SS were undoubtedly the most superb soldiers in any Army of any nation. They had the best training, the best equipment and were driven by collective zeal.

I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.

Yeah, I thought you might, since Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.

Or in your case. Not appropriate. Theres already a wage cap thread by the way.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Or in your case. Not appropriate. Theres already a wage cap thread by the way.

Matter of opinion.

Or is it perhaps that your response better demonstrates that some people cant fairly judge things once they feel aggrieved?

See what I did there?

And, I didn't start the discussion down the wage cap route either.

Just saying that the thread can get back on track if directed there. I'm not aggrieved but you do seem to be annoyed by it. Rage against the unfairness of their cheating there. More appropriate to comment on the on pitch etc here.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just saying that the thread can get back on track if directed there. I'm not aggrieved but you do seem to be annoyed by it. Rage against the unfairness of their cheating there. More appropriate to comment on the on pitch etc here.

Can't argue with that.

Rugby Fan wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:...Players signing for Exeter know they'll be in the playoffs fighting for silverware every season...

There were also a few seasons when Exeter seemed to revitalize the careers of players who were on the out at their old club. Waldrom is the stand-out example and Julian Salvi did well from leicester too. Alex Cuthbert hasn't really worked out in the same way.

Saracens also seemed to get the best out of people, turning Jim Hamilton from a walking penalty into a solid backup Premiership player. Their success with Will Skelton is a high profile success story, while Calum Clark has been a disappointment.

Does Calum Clark even play for them any more?

Clark has made a couple of appearances for Saracens this season in this comp. Both off the bench for a total of 63 minutes.

LondonTiger wrote:Clark has made a couple of appearances for Saracens this season in this comp. Both off the bench for a total of 63 minutes.

How many arms has he deliberately broken?

Khouli Khan wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Clark has made a couple of appearances for Saracens this season in this comp. Both off the bench for a total of 63 minutes.

How many arms has he deliberately broken?

This season: None
Career: Technically Zero (wasn't Hawkins a complex dislocation?)

Clark was a player with the physical attributes and skills to be a long term England player, but severely lacking in both brains and common decency (on the pitch at least).

Funny how things go ain't it. Complaints about rugby becoming too soft vs Clark's abhorrent actions and castigation vs colin meads legendary status in the game.

LondonTiger wrote:

Khouli Khan wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Clark has made a couple of appearances for Saracens this season in this comp. Both off the bench for a total of 63 minutes.

How many arms has he deliberately broken?

Career: Technically Zero (wasn't Hawkins a complex dislocation?)

I'm sure Hawkins was very glad to hear it.....

Clark got a 32 week ban I seem to remember. Many said he should have had a lifetime ban. I think there's a difference between robust play and GBH, if you or I had done what clark did to Hawkins outside the kebab shop, we'd be in front of a Magistrate at the very least.

Great win by Saints. They were down 17-5 at Lyon at half-time but came out 24-36 winners. More importantly, that earned them five points, for a total of 19, which is a healty total for runner-up spot.

Twitter saying that the result mans Saracens face Leinster, if they can get enough points against Racing

Khouli Khan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:They have and they havent. I've been a vocal critic of their accountants for years on here. It's a separate point to their coaching however.

In WWII, the SS were undoubtedly the most superb soldiers in any Army of any nation. They had the best training, the best equipment and were driven by collective zeal.

Not true. Not true at all. They just had the shiniest toys in the German army, a hint of fanaticism, and late on the motivation that comes from knowing that the soldiers of other armies might treat them somewhat differently than regular wehrmacht.

Saracens are losing to Racing, and Skelton has just been red-carded. Qualification has just got a lot harder.

A dirty late cheap shot from Skelton, deserved a red all day long.

I'm interested in how this goes in the 2nd half. Will tell us a bit about the mind set of farrell daly vunipola itoje ahead of 6ns.

Body language as they went off for the half very telling. racing all smiles, Sarries looking beaten.

Skelton red quite deserved especially given a few cheap shots from Sarries.

Finn is showing Farrell what a quality 10 actually is. Superb fightback from Racing. Second half should be tasty. I think Sarries have to play tight, kick for territory and pressure Racing. Pin them into the corners.

Dont be silly TJ. Your constant knocking of the english constantly is tiresome.

Farrell has thrown an intercept and at least two passes to ground. russell has created space for his team to scor tries. Finn has performed far better than Farrell that half.

Big test for Farrell now - lets see if he can do it. Sit back and kick for territory IMO - but it has to be good or racing will counter

So you've moved on from Russell is playing better rather than farrell isnt a quality 10. More balanced thankyou. Cos frankly if things like interceptsamd mistakes make you rubbish in one off games Russell is one of the worst tens to play the game.

Its not done yet, Sarries get one back

24 all

Superb try Sarries - all square

Racing self destructing here, get a yellow for a late shot on Farrell

How stupid was that

Why is every French rugby team furnished with a great big, enormous self-destruct button?

Daly goes for the posts

and he misses by miles

Still all square

Farrell kicks a pen

3 point lead with 5 mins to go

A huge amount of credit for Saracens for sticking in this, really poor from Saracens. Pretty dreadful showing from Nigel Owens.

Well the mindset looks pretty good. Pretty immaculate 2nd half.

Is that Glasgow officially out then?

Glasgow out now, Gloucester need a 5 point win to head through.

Yup - pulled themselves together well

One dreadful blunder from the refing team turned the game tho. Daly Knocked on onto the Racing guys head - shuld have been racing scrum not ~Sarries pen

Still - refs make mistakes in every game and Racing looked so flat in that second half. Sarrie half time talk must have been good

TJ wrote:Farrell has thrown an intercept and at least two passes to ground.  russell has created space for his team to scor tries.  Finn has performed far better than Farrell that half.

Big test for Farrell now - lets see if he can do it.  Sit back and kick for territory IMO - but it has to be good or racing will counter

Think that question has been answered.

Thought Saracens might have wilted there. I doubt Leinster would have taken the foot off the throat like Racing did but Saracens still had to take their chances.

Well done Sarries, but boy were Racing poor that second half when the game was there to be won. They will be playing away in the quarters now and you would not fancy their chances based on that performance.

Sarries likely to be going to Clermont

Toulouse Vs Gloucester is quite a game. Dupont absolute skills. Good ding dong battle. Blow for the Welsh though with Rees-Zammit limping off.

QF confirmed:

1) Leinster v Saracens
2) Clermont v Racing 92
3) Toulouse v Ulster
4) Exeter v Northampton

Semi-finals:
1 v 2
3 v 4

Did anyone catch Munster vs Ospreys?

No, but the result isn’t surprising when Scott Williams dropped out again and they had centres of North and Dan Evans. That’s pretty defensively weak.

Yeah that would be awkward. I imagine it was Dan Evans at 12, kind of like a second play-maker?

Rugby Fan wrote:QF confirmed:

1) Leinster v Saracens
2) Clermont v Racing 92
3) Toulouse v Ulster
4) Exeter v Northampton

Semi-finals:
1 v 2
3 v 4

I'm going with a semi-final line-up of:

Leinster v Racing;
Chiefs v Toulouse

Leinster v Chiefs final.

If there is one team to beat Leinster it's Sarries.  While they may of had some rub of the green Sunday what other team would have beaten Racing with a man down.  I think the coaching staff is the real reason for their success.

Clermont v racing I think is the hardest to call

Toulouse should beat Ulster but think Ulster will put in a good showing and leave with their heads held high

Not sure the last time Saints beat Exeter in Devon but Saints still struggle with a big pack.

Would have to feel that the winner is most likely to come from the Leinster half of the draw.

If Sarries or Racing do win it it might be one of the most difficult routes to winning it considering only Ospreys games would not have been against one of the top 8 teams in Europe.