Dragons Season Thread - 2019/20 aka Year 1 of the new 5 Year Plan

[RiscaGame]

First topic message reminder :

Because it seemingly hit his head. I understand why he did it, as they were slowing us down a fair bit and not getting penalised, but it needs to be a few more angles than the clip I have seen.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'm really happy about Bertranou staying on, although I hope Dan Babos still manages to get more game time than he's had the last couple of seasons.

[LordDowlais]

You've changed your game to the Cardiff Football stadium as well, is there work being done at your home ground ? Or is there something else ?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Yes, a new hybrid pitch.

'A new pitch was scheduled to be installed following the 2019/20 season, but due to Covid-19 restrictions was delayed until the completion of the current campaign.

'Our contractors, South Wales Sportsgrounds, will now commence work next week to install a new state-of-the-art SIS hybrid pitch ahead of the 2021/22 season.

'Mark Jones, Managing Director at Dragons, said: “We’re extremely grateful to our colleagues at Cardiff City, the Guinness PRO14 and host broadcasters for their support and understanding with this venue change.

'“We delayed work on the pitch for a number of weeks to ensure Newport County could play any play-off fixture here, but it’s now vital to start renovations so it can be completed for the 2021/22 season."'

https://www.dragonsrugby.wales/news/2021/may/dragons-move-game-to-cardiff-city-stadium.html

[RiscaGame]

Good news on the re-signings anyway.

Great that Ollie Griffiths is available this weekend too. Be interested to see the squad announced, as I’m not sure if we are struggling at 2. Haven’t heard anything of a ban for either Lawrence or Cardiff’s Lane yet though. Assume there is nothing doing?

[RiscaGame]

I'm really happy about Bertranou staying on, although I hope Dan Babos still manages to get more game time than he's had the last couple of seasons.

Didn’t know there was further replies until after my post.

100% agree. Always been a fan on Babos. Bulked up a bit too.

The new pitch sounds really positive too. I did see on FB they reckon this will have a 10 year lifespan. If that’s the case, then that’s great.

[LordDowlais]

Yes, a new hybrid pitch.

'A new pitch was scheduled to be installed following the 2019/20 season, but due to Covid-19 restrictions was delayed until the completion of the current campaign.

'Our contractors, South Wales Sportsgrounds, will now commence work next week to install a new state-of-the-art SIS hybrid pitch ahead of the 2021/22 season.

'Mark Jones, Managing Director at Dragons, said: “We’re extremely grateful to our colleagues at Cardiff City, the Guinness PRO14 and host broadcasters for their support and understanding with this venue change.

'“We delayed work on the pitch for a number of weeks to ensure Newport County could play any play-off fixture here, but it’s now vital to start renovations so it can be completed for the 2021/22 season."'

https://www.dragonsrugby.wales/news/2021/may/dragons-move-game-to-cardiff-city-stadium.html

Ah that explains it. I think I was talking to risca about this a few weeks ago, are they sorting out the drainage as well ?

Good news for Rodney Parade though.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Good news on the re-signings anyway.

Great that Ollie Griffiths is available this weekend too. Be interested to see the squad announced, as I’m not sure if we are struggling at 2. Haven’t heard anything of a ban for either Lawrence or Cardiff’s Lane yet though. Assume there is nothing doing?

Three-match ban for each of them.

On Ollie Griffiths, with the best will in the world, I don't see him stringing even two or three matches together without getting injured. I wouldn't be surprised if he came off in Sunday's game. It's got to the point that I'm on edge when he plays.

[RiscaGame]

I thought they would both get something. Thanks for that.

Agree totally about being on edge. Real shame.

[RiscaGame]

Ah great. Hibbard is back this weekend, so not as big a worry as I thought.

[mikey_dragon]

We signed Screech from the Blues in the first place, and Cory Hill for that matter. I don't really know what you're getting at!

Screech was signed from Bedwas RFC. Hill was signed from Moseley. What I'm getting at is the supposed, shall we say 'WRU Law' where Regions couldn't outbid one another, steal players, etc. These two and Jac Morgan seemingly make a mockery of that. Has such a law been agreed? I know it was mooted but I don't know much else after that.

Just so you know, I'm all for players moving around to strengthen the game as a whole in Wales, whilst said players could enhance their prospects if they get more game time elsewhere. I'm not for everyone picking off our players though, which has been the case for over a decade.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

We signed Screech from the Blues in the first place, and Cory Hill for that matter. I don't really know what you're getting at!

Screech was signed from Bedwas RFC. Hill was signed from Moseley.

Fair dos, I should have worded it better!

[mikey_dragon]

We signed Screech from the Blues in the first place, and Cory Hill for that matter. I don't really know what you're getting at!

Screech was signed from Bedwas RFC. Hill was signed from Moseley.

Fair dos, I should have worded it better!

I know what you meant. Screech was released from the Blues in 2013, I'm not sure if he had even been involved in the first team much. Hill played in Moseley for a season. Both were considered also-rans, before developing into the good players they are now, at DRAGONS . What do you think of the player movement I alluded to? It often seems like one-way traffic to me. I thought Cardiff would have went for Baker, and that would have worked out better for him and them, IMO.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

In the past our best players have left, but IIRC not to other Welsh sides but to England or France - Faletau and Lydiate, for example. I think that's just how it used to be - Jamie Roberts to Racing, Jonathan Davies to Clermont, it wasn't just happening to Dragons players. In terms of players going from region to region, haven't we benefited from that just as much as the other regions have? I've honestly never looked at it that closely, but it doesn't feel to me like it happens to us more often than it happens to others.

[Oakdene]

We signed Screech from the Blues in the first place, and Cory Hill for that matter. I don't really know what you're getting at!

Screech was signed from Bedwas RFC. Hill was signed from Moseley. What I'm getting at is the supposed, shall we say 'WRU Law' where Regions couldn't outbid one another, steal players, etc. These two and Jac Morgan seemingly make a mockery of that. Has such a law been agreed? I know it was mooted but I don't know much else after that.

Just so you know, I'm all for players moving around to strengthen the game as a whole in Wales, whilst said players could enhance their prospects if they get more game time elsewhere. I'm not for everyone picking off our players though, which has been the case for over a decade.

I don’t think the Ospreys outbid the Scarlets for Jac, he always wanted to move there as he & his family are Ospreys fans. Sadly at the end of the day, players moving on is no different to you or me getting a new job on better money.

[PhilBB]

We signed Screech from the Blues in the first place, and Cory Hill for that matter. I don't really know what you're getting at!

By my reckoning, only 26 of the 52 listed players on the Dragons website as "squad members" are home grown.

Is that right?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I have no idea, I'm afraid. How would we be defining home grown? Place of birth?

[RiscaGame]

Dragons: J Lewis; J Holmes, J Dixon, A Owen, R Dyer; S Davies, G Bertranou; G Bateman, T Davies, L Brown, J Davies, B Carter, A Wainwright (captain), O Griffiths, D Baker.

Replacements: R Hibbard, J Reynolds, C Coleman, J Maksymiw, H Taylor, T Basham, D Babos, I Davies.

I can only hope that Babos is the 9 cover and Knoyle is there purely as an extra. I wonder if they may look at Lewis as a kicker? I expect not, but something needs to happen.

[formerly known as Sam]

I have no idea, I'm afraid. How would we be defining home grown? Place of birth?

Member of the academy?

[mikey_dragon]

I can only hope that Babos is the 9 cover and Knoyle is there purely as an extra. I wonder if they may look at Lewis as a kicker? I expect not, but something needs to happen.

Yeah, preferably a new signing.

[mikey_dragon]

In the past our best players have left, but IIRC not to other Welsh sides but to England or France - Faletau and Lydiate, for example. I think that's just how it used to be - Jamie Roberts to Racing, Jonathan Davies to Clermont, it wasn't just happening to Dragons players. In terms of players going from region to region, haven't we benefited from that just as much as the other regions have? I've honestly never looked at it that closely, but it doesn't feel to me like it happens to us more often than it happens to others.

True. Yes I think we have benefited from some region-to-region transfers*, assuming we are talking about a player leaving their region to join Dragons - I don't recall much of that but it tends to go the other way often. We have benefited more by bringing in players from elsewhere who were no longer wanted by their home region. We bring through players and once they become good the others come in swooping. Bearman, Amos, AOB (they can keep him), Morgan, Hill, Maule; and for pity's sake I'm going to include Sam Parry here too. There's probably more. We couldn't get Lydiate to come back like Cardiff couldn't get Bradley Davies. Now Screech is leaving. It was mooted that regions outbidding / stealing players wasn't going to happen going forward. I guess that isn't the case.

*my next point, who on earth was in charge of the recruitment drive back then? Sowden-Taylor, Knoyle, Suter...

I don’t think the Ospreys outbid the Scarlets for Jac, he always wanted to move there as he & his family are Ospreys fans. Sadly at the end of the day, players moving on is no different to you or me getting a new job on better money.

Interesting. Agree but as I said, I thought it was meant to cease. Happy with getting Rowlands in for next season anyway, I believe he is a slight step-up on Screech.

[mikey_dragon]

It would be interesting to see our list of transfers anyway, and who is homegrown and who isn't.

[PhilBB]

I have no idea, I'm afraid. How would we be defining home grown? Place of birth?

Academy graduate

[PhilBB]

It would be interesting to see our list of transfers anyway, and who is homegrown and who isn't.

Do what I did - go through the squad list to see which players have come through the Dragons Academy.

Once you've done that, you'll recognise where there's been a massive problem for 18 years.

[mikey_dragon]

It would be interesting to see our list of transfers anyway, and who is homegrown and who isn't.

Do what I did - go through the squad list to see which players have come through the Dragons Academy.

Once you've done that, you'll recognise where there's been a massive problem for 18 years.

I was being lazy, maybe I'll get around to it when I don't fancy doing work. It's not a surprise that the academy has required some sort of investment though, as we don't seem to bring through as many as the others.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It would be interesting to see our list of transfers anyway, and who is homegrown and who isn't.

Do what I did - go through the squad list to see which players have come through the Dragons Academy.

Once you've done that, you'll recognise where there's been a massive problem for 18 years.

Is there a reliable list of which senior players came through the various academies? I ask because I've looked at all four websites (although the Ospreys' website is no use), and there are a number of players, at each region, who are almost certainly academy products, yet there's no mention of it in their bios. This list includes Aneurin Owen, Rio Dyer and Ben Carter at the Dragons. It would be useful to know for certain how the regions compare, and I'm genuinely interested to know.

It's true that our academy wasn't up to much in the past, but I don't think that's been the case for a while now.

[PhilBB]

It would be interesting to see our list of transfers anyway, and who is homegrown and who isn't.

Do what I did - go through the squad list to see which players have come through the Dragons Academy.

Once you've done that, you'll recognise where there's been a massive problem for 18 years.

Is there a reliable list of which senior players came through the various academies? I ask because I've looked at all four websites (although the Ospreys' website is no use), and there are a number of players, at each region, who are almost certainly academy products, yet there's no mention of it in their bios. This list includes Aneurin Owen, Rio Dyer and Ben Carter at the Dragons. It would be useful to know for certain how the regions compare, and I'm genuinely interested to know.

It's true that our academy wasn't up to much in the past, but I don't think that's been the case for a while now.

Dragons players you mention: https://dragonsrugby.wales/news/2021/february/rising-stars-benefit-from-stability.html

I think working out takes a bit of knowledge / Googling, but Cardiff are certainly noting how many of the squad has come through its Academy.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

That's what I mean about the websites, I make it that there are 18 Blues players with a mention in their bios of the academy / age grade rugby, to 17 Dragons players - but there are other players in each squad who almost certainly did come through the respective academies. (The Scarlets players' bios mention the academy even less often, which shows how unreliable a source the websites are.)

As I said, I'm not sure there's that much in it these days, but we did have to play catch up quite significantly.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

On yesterday's match, it's better to be losing while scoring tries and looking dangerous in attack than it is to be losing and not being able to buy a try, but ultimately it's defeat either way. There's only so much satisfaction to be gained from knowing that Shane Williams and Sean Holley like watching us play, and it has to be said that we conceded some very soft tries. I suspect that the coaches are using the Rainbow Cup as an opportunity to see how far we can get playing this high-tempo game, rather than it being an indication of how we'll play in the league next season. Having said that, I'm very pleased with our handling, compared to previous seasons (and even earlier this season) when you'd be forgiven for thinking the players had barely trained together.

[RiscaGame]

Very soft tries. That said, tries like Holmes’ first wouldn’t have happened against a good fullback.

What worried me, was Leon Brown being perceived to be having a tough time in the scrum. The camera angle never showed his actual offences from memory, but one it was obvious that the Ospreys loosehead was angling and another Parry popped up first.

Holley and Williams were ok for me yesterday. Preferred them to Shanklin on Saturday. H and W seemed very keen to praise some Dragons players, but I thought were also guilty of going too far. For example, I think they over praised Dyer, who made a few mistakes yesterday and I wouldn’t have mentioned him as a consideration for MOTM.

Don’t think Dean Ryan helped us at times yesterday, with some of his subs. I would probably have brought Maksymiw on before Huw Taylor. I would probably have brought Hibbard and a prop on earlier, to try and paint a better picture for Super Frank Murphy.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The Ospreys loosehead looked like he was driving in diagonally for the first penalty, but I guess you get away with what you can get away with. Brown was limping a bit too halfway through the first half, which can't have helped with subsequent scrums.

On the try that was unsuccessfully challenged for a forward pass, with Reuben Morgan-Williams being turned like he was, it looked like it would have been impossible for him to pass it any way other than forward, but the line was right there and it did look like the pass ran parallel with it. I've never seen anything quite like it.

[PhilBB]

On yesterday's match, it's better to be losing while scoring tries and looking dangerous in attack than it is to be losing and not being able to buy a try, but ultimately it's defeat either way. There's only so much satisfaction to be gained from knowing that Shane Williams and Sean Holley like watching us play, and it has to be said that we conceded some very soft tries. I suspect that the coaches are using the Rainbow Cup as an opportunity to see how far we can get playing this high-tempo game, rather than it being an indication of how we'll play in the league next season. Having said that, I'm very pleased with our handling, compared to previous seasons (and even earlier this season) when you'd be forgiven for thinking the players had barely trained together.

Looks great in May, doesn't work from November to March.

[PhilBB]

That's what I mean about the websites, I make it that there are 18 Blues players with a mention in their bios of the academy / age grade rugby, to 17 Dragons players - but there are other players in each squad who almost certainly did come through the respective academies. (The Scarlets players' bios mention the academy even less often, which shows how unreliable a source the websites are.)

As I said, I'm not sure there's that much in it these days, but we did have to play catch up quite significantly.

Andrews, Assiratti, Belcher, Botham, Carre, Dacey, Davies, Davies-King, Domachowski, Evans, Feyi-Waboso, Gill, Grady, Harris, Hill, Jenkins, Jones, Lane, Lawrence, Lewis, LewisE, Lewis-Hughes, Llewellyn, Millard, Murphy, Navidi, Smith, Summerhill, Thomas, Thyer, WilliamsTo, WilliamsL, WilliamsTed

33 out of 50.

[RiscaGame]

On the try that was unsuccessfully challenged for a forward pass, with Reuben Morgan-Williams being turned like he was, it looked like it would have been impossible for him to pass it any way other than forward, but the line was right there and it did look like the pass ran parallel with it. I've never seen anything quite like it.

Obviously a few of our supporters were upset with that pass aye. Tbh, it makes up for the Brown try against them previously anyway (which looked more forward )

I was actually waiting for the TMO to check Holmes second, as I thought either the last pass or the penultimate one looked like it could've gone slightly forward too.

[LordDowlais]

That's what I mean about the websites, I make it that there are 18 Blues players with a mention in their bios of the academy / age grade rugby, to 17 Dragons players - but there are other players in each squad who almost certainly did come through the respective academies. (The Scarlets players' bios mention the academy even less often, which shows how unreliable a source the websites are.)

As I said, I'm not sure there's that much in it these days, but we did have to play catch up quite significantly.

Andrews, Assiratti, Belcher, Botham, Carre, Dacey, Davies, Davies-King, Domachowski, Evans, Feyi-Waboso, Gill, Grady, Harris, Hill, Jenkins, Jones, Lane, Lawrence, Lewis, LewisE, Lewis-Hughes, Llewellyn, Millard, Murphy, Navidi, Smith, Summerhill, Thomas, Thyer, WilliamsTo, WilliamsL, WilliamsTed

33 out of 50.

A lot of people from the valleys in that list.

Nice to see that we still produce decent numbers.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

That's what I mean about the websites, I make it that there are 18 Blues players with a mention in their bios of the academy / age grade rugby, to 17 Dragons players - but there are other players in each squad who almost certainly did come through the respective academies. (The Scarlets players' bios mention the academy even less often, which shows how unreliable a source the websites are.)

As I said, I'm not sure there's that much in it these days, but we did have to play catch up quite significantly.

Andrews, Assiratti, Belcher, Botham, Carre, Dacey, Davies, Davies-King, Domachowski, Evans, Feyi-Waboso, Gill, Grady, Harris, Hill, Jenkins, Jones, Lane, Lawrence, Lewis, LewisE, Lewis-Hughes, Llewellyn, Millard, Murphy, Navidi, Smith, Summerhill, Thomas, Thyer, WilliamsTo, WilliamsL, WilliamsTed

33 out of 50.

I feel like you're missing my point, I was saying that the regions' websites aren't a good source of information on which players came through their academies.

I wanted to know how the Dragons compared to the other regions, and if as you say it's 33 out of 50 at the Blues and 26 out of 52 at the Dragons, that's not a chasm of a difference.

[PhilBB]

A lot of people from the valleys in that list.

Nice to see that we still produce decent numbers.

As has always been the case since rugby began. The best ones get to play for Cardiff.

[PhilBB]

That's what I mean about the websites, I make it that there are 18 Blues players with a mention in their bios of the academy / age grade rugby, to 17 Dragons players - but there are other players in each squad who almost certainly did come through the respective academies. (The Scarlets players' bios mention the academy even less often, which shows how unreliable a source the websites are.)

As I said, I'm not sure there's that much in it these days, but we did have to play catch up quite significantly.

Andrews, Assiratti, Belcher, Botham, Carre, Dacey, Davies, Davies-King, Domachowski, Evans, Feyi-Waboso, Gill, Grady, Harris, Hill, Jenkins, Jones, Lane, Lawrence, Lewis, LewisE, Lewis-Hughes, Llewellyn, Millard, Murphy, Navidi, Smith, Summerhill, Thomas, Thyer, WilliamsTo, WilliamsL, WilliamsTed

33 out of 50.

I feel like you're missing my point, I was saying that the regions' websites aren't a good source of information on which players came through their academies.

I wanted to know how the Dragons compared to the other regions, and if as you say it's 33 out of 50 at the Blues and 26 out of 52 at the Dragons, that's not a chasm of a difference.

There's a chasm in quality.

I took your point, but just expanded on it to give the Cardiff list.

(Thankfully under three months until that Blues BS has gone forever).

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'll find it strange reverting to 'Cardiff' to be honest. I understand the whole heritage thing, and a lot of supporters are much happier with the new name, but for me Blues has been useful shorthand, not a deliberate slight. I've never heard anyone making a fuss over Northampton Saints and Leicester Tigers being referred to as Saints and Tigers. That's not an attempt to 'cancel' Northampton or Leicester or whatever, it just saves time typing / speaking.

[PhilBB]

I'll find it strange reverting to 'Cardiff' to be honest. I understand the whole heritage thing, and a lot of supporters are much happier with the new name, but for me Blues has been useful shorthand, not a deliberate slight. I've never heard anyone making a fuss over Northampton Saints and Leicester Tigers being referred to as Saints and Tigers. That's not an attempt to 'cancel' Northampton or Leicester or whatever, it just saves time typing / speaking.

It's two additional letters.

[mikey_dragon]

Well as far as academy players go I'm very impressed with Ben Carter, Anuerin Owen, and Rio Dyer. Also the other seasoned players from our academy like Ollie Griffiths, Taine Basham, Ben Fry. There are a few more. Our academy still puts out some really good players luckily.

[LordDowlais]

Well as far as academy players go I'm very impressed with Ben Carter, Anuerin Owen, and Rio Dyer. Also the other seasoned players from our academy like Ollie Griffiths, Taine Basham, Ben Fry. There are a few more. Our academy still puts out some really good players luckily.

I reckon Anuerin Owen will be in Wales summer squad.

[LordDowlais]

A lot of people from the valleys in that list.

Nice to see that we still produce decent numbers.

As has always been the case since rugby began. The best ones get to play for Cardiff.

Thats most of the Cardiff team.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Well as far as academy players go I'm very impressed with Ben Carter, Anuerin Owen, and Rio Dyer. Also the other seasoned players from our academy like Ollie Griffiths, Taine Basham, Ben Fry. There are a few more. Our academy still puts out some really good players luckily.

I reckon Anuerin Owen will be in Wales summer squad.

Aneurin Owen went to the same school as me. Few years between us though!

[mikey_dragon]

I hope he stays at 13, we could do with a skilful player there. It will be interesting to see him tested against the big centres from the SH, a test I hope he passes.

[LordDowlais]

Work has started on the new surface:-

https://twitter.com/dragonsrugby/status/1397598593062670337?s=21

[RiscaGame]

Dragons: I Davies; J Holmes, J Dixon, A Owen, R Dyer; S Davies, G Bertranou; B Harris, R Hibbard, L Fairbrother, M Screech, B Carter, R Moriarty (captain), O Griffiths, A Wainwright.

Replacements: E Dee, J Reynolds, A Jarvis, J Davies, T Basham, D Babos, E Lloyd, J Roberts.

Glasgow: A Hastings; K Steyn, N Grigg, S Johnson, C Forbes; R Thompson, A Price; A Seiuli, G Turner, Z Fagerson, R Harley, S Cummings, R Wilson (captain), R Darge, M Fagerson.

Dean Ryan’s solution to Dee “needing more minutes” is to bench him

Great to see Harris back. Glad to see Jarvis covering Tighthead too. In theory, we should be pretty steady in the scrum and hopefully not lose anything when replacements come on.

[PhilBB]

So, what's the view on the season so far?

[RiscaGame]

Not happy overall. I guess we are at the level we have been, but I am pretty disappointed with a few things, such as how the derbies went and a few other things. I suppose given the fact this season was a huge mess around, you can’t really take too much from it, but I would still have liked to have won a couple more games (Zebre away and gone for it at the end against Leinster home).

Have had a few gripes with Dean Ryan this year, with selections etc. It’ll be interesting to see how we go next season, when we don’t have the pitch as an excuse.

[RiscaGame]

Oh and obviously that Northampton game didn’t overly thrill me either.

Edit. Nor the Connacht home game.

[PhilBB]

Not happy overall. I guess we are at the level we have been, but I am pretty disappointed with a few things, such as how the derbies went and a few other things. I suppose given the fact this season was a huge mess around, you can’t really take too much from it, but I would still have liked to have won a couple more games (Zebre away and gone for it at the end against Leinster home).

Have had a few gripes with Dean Ryan this year, with selections etc. It’ll be interesting to see how we go next season, when we don’t have the pitch as an excuse.

That's a fair assessment. There were a couple of very lucky victories this season, too.

I think Mr Ryan is a little bit of 'Emperor's New Clothes'.

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