Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

Pr4wn wrote:Why are 16 and 17 year olds old enough to pay tax but not old enough to vote?

Good point, take them out of having to pay tax.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Luke wrote:

MrInvisible wrote:Latest opinion poll shows 64% want Brexit transition period to be extended - will be severe economic suicide if we crash out on 31st December.  

And there lies Johnson's next problem, after his handling of the current crisis.
Given that most of his campaign was get Brexit done, no more delays. Which swayed quite a few people to vote for him. Delaying could be seen as a betrayal, and ignoring them again.
But as you say, if he doesn't it will be economic suicide if he doesn't, especially as this country will be if not in recession, pretty close to it. And given this crisis, no other country is going to be thinking of anything else but there own country for a while.

If I was him I'd be honest, just say your delaying for a year, as the current crisis means, that there can be no negotiation as every country has to rightly take stock of where they are after it. And sort out there own country, before these negotiations. Some will complain, but most would like his honesty.

I don't think it's much of a problem for him, if he's seen to deal with this crisis well then delaying Brexit will be accepted.

But is he going to delay it.

Your forgetting this is a guy who wanted to delay an extension so we crashed out by default, and then wanted to hold an election a couple of weeks before one so we'd crash out by default.

Luke wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Luke wrote:

MrInvisible wrote:Latest opinion poll shows 64% want Brexit transition period to be extended - will be severe economic suicide if we crash out on 31st December.  

And there lies Johnson's next problem, after his handling of the current crisis.
Given that most of his campaign was get Brexit done, no more delays. Which swayed quite a few people to vote for him. Delaying could be seen as a betrayal, and ignoring them again.
But as you say, if he doesn't it will be economic suicide if he doesn't, especially as this country will be if not in recession, pretty close to it. And given this crisis, no other country is going to be thinking of anything else but there own country for a while.

If I was him I'd be honest, just say your delaying for a year, as the current crisis means, that there can be no negotiation as every country has to rightly take stock of where they are after it. And sort out there own country, before these negotiations. Some will complain, but most would like his honesty.

I don't think it's much of a problem for him, if he's seen to deal with this crisis well then delaying Brexit will be accepted.

But is he going to delay it.

Your forgetting this is a guy who wanted to delay an extension so we crashed out by default, and then wanted to hold an election a couple of weeks before  one so we'd crash out by default.

Yes there will be a delay in extenuating circumstances, the electorate is unlikely to turn against him for that reason

Crash out by default? He tried to arrange the general election to prevent another extension, we were always going to enter a transitional period.

I'm not saying they all will, some Will. But we'll have to wait and see if he will, after all Jacob Rees mogg didn't think there will be.
Hopefully he does, but it really wouldn't surprise me if he didn't.

Irrelevant if the PM with his 90% sycophantic MSM is seen to deal with this well..

FDR got the biggest landslide in decades by beating poor old Herbert H who inherited a depression...History continuously repeats...

If you can't feed the family a scapegoat is needed...

Give it a year and look at the polls...The People in factories voted for this Govt....When the factories close they will vote it out..

Turkeys voted for Christmas in December and I'm tired of voting to help them try to help themselves..

Reap what they sow.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Irrelevant if the PM with his 90% sycophantic MSM is seen to deal with this well..

FDR got the biggest landslide in decades by beating poor old Herbert H who inherited a depression...History continuously repeats...

If you can't feed the family a scapegoat is needed...

Give it a year and look at the polls...The People in factories voted for this Govt....When the factories close they will vote it out..

Turkeys voted for Christmas in December and I'm tired of voting to help them try to help themselves..

Reap what they sow.

How patronising, you know better than people themselves, dear oh dear.

History sometimes repeats, sometimes it does not.

Governing parties normally get their comeuppance at some point even if it can take a while for penny to drop with much of electorate.

The Tories in successive elections have so far got away relatively unpunished with the savage ideological cuts to local authorities, education, health, welfare state, etc, but one day the reckoning will come - the penny will drop for the swathes of electorate who have only just worked out what's gone on and how much its damaged the social fabric of the country.

I may be way off the mark but I've got a feeling that the way Covid-19 will continue to shine a light on the debilitating effects of austerity and the shocking lack of preparation for a virus we had a headstart on will accelerate this day of reckoning.  

Events have forced the government's hand and transformed Sunak into an interventionist Keynesian chancellor, but the dramatic about-face on public expenditure shows up the austerity era as needless ideology (which killed 130,000 UK citizens from entirely preventable deaths).  They have nowhere left to hide.

In these strange and scary times incumbents throughout the world are seeing a polling boost, but just wait til the recession/depression starts to bite.  I'll wager a virtual fiver that Labour are ahead in the polls this time next year....

MrInvisible wrote:Governing parties normally get their comeuppance at some point even if it can take a while for penny to drop with much of electorate.

The Tories in successive elections have so far got away relatively unpunished with the savage ideological cuts to local authorities, education, health, welfare state, etc, but one day the reckoning will come - the penny will drop for the swathes of electorate who have only just worked out what's gone on and how much its damaged the social fabric of the country.

I may be way off the mark but I've got a feeling that the way Covid-19 will continue to shine a light on the debilitating effects of austerity and the shocking lack of preparation for a virus we had a headstart on will accelerate this day of reckoning.  

Events have forced the government's hand and transformed Sunak into an interventionist Keynesian chancellor, but the dramatic about-face on public expenditure shows up the austerity era as needless ideology (which killed 130,000 UK citizens from entirely preventable deaths).  They have nowhere left to hide.

In these strange and scary times incumbents throughout the world are seeing a polling boost, but just wait til the recession/depression starts to bite.  I'll wager a virtual fiver that Labour are ahead in the polls this time next year....

I'll take that fiver cheers.

I can't see him delaying Brexit. That is what he hangs his had on - Get Brexit Done etc. etc. I just can't see any way, even if the Covid crisis peaks again next winter, where he moves to delay it.

And I wouldn't be surprised to see Labour in the polls before the next election - Ed Miliband was on for a landslide at one point if you believed the polls! When it actually comes time to vote, that is a different matter.

Labour haven't led in a poll since July last year. Since the GE, the gap has been getting wider and wider. Four of the last five polls have the Tories at a 20%+ lead and a 50%+ overall vote share. As previously mentioned, Johnson's approval ratings are heading steadily upward. It's fantasy land to see Labour turning this around in the next few years.

MrInvisible - I appreciate you're a tremendously partisan poster on the Tory/Labour issue, but please don't issue statements like 130,000 UK citizens died from austerity as a matter of fact, when it is not the case.

Spoiler:

Depressing isn't it? The government has been flat out lying to the British public about the EU procurement scheme and their "Herd Immunity" gamble has likely cost the UK hundreds of lives.

But Britain largely thinks that Johnson is doing a good job.

Pr4wn wrote:Depressing isn't it? The government has been flat out lying to the British public about the EU procurement scheme and their "Herd Immunity" gamble has likely cost the UK hundreds of lives.

But Britain largely thinks that Johnson is doing a good job.

We're in the company of yet another expert. I'd like you explain the cost lives bit.

You'd like me explain the cost lives bit?

By engaging in the widely ridiculed and the internationally maligned herd immunity strategy, rather than locking down like other European nations were doing, it's almost certain that more people contracted Covid than would have had the government used the internationally accepted strategies.

Please explain why you dispute this.

Pr4wn wrote:You'd like me explain the cost lives bit?

By engaging in the widely ridiculed and the internationally maligned herd immunity strategy, rather than locking down like other European nations were doing, it's almost certain that more people contracted Covid than would have had the government used the internationally accepted strategies.

Please explain why you dispute this.

I'm interested how that will save lives long term, could you explain?

Soul Requiem wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:You'd like me explain the cost lives bit?

By engaging in the widely ridiculed and the internationally maligned herd immunity strategy, rather than locking down like other European nations were doing, it's almost certain that more people contracted Covid than would have had the government used the internationally accepted strategies.

Please explain why you dispute this.

I'm interested how that will save lives long term, could you explain?

Good grief. How much more basic would you like it? More people having it at any one point puts additional burden on the already struggling NHS. If the NHS is under massive pressure, the quality of care that they provide suffers, unfortunately. Practicing the debunked herd immunity theory has, in my view, massively increased the number of people who will contract Covid and end up in the NHS's struggling hospitals.

Please explain why you dispute this.

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:You'd like me explain the cost lives bit?

By engaging in the widely ridiculed and the internationally maligned herd immunity strategy, rather than locking down like other European nations were doing, it's almost certain that more people contracted Covid than would have had the government used the internationally accepted strategies.

Please explain why you dispute this.

I'm interested how that will save lives long term, could you explain?

Good grief. How much more basic would you like it? More people having it at any one point puts additional burden on the already struggling NHS. If the NHS is under massive pressure, the quality of care that they provide suffers, unfortunately. Practicing the debunked herd immunity theory has, in my view, massively increased the number of people who will contract Covid and end up in the NHS's struggling hospitals.

Please explain why you dispute this.

Can you explain how that affects the peak? Also taking into account mental health issues, social mobility, long term economic measures etc.

Debunked? Herd immunity has been ditched because no healthcare system in the world would cope with the peak it would create not because it doesn't work.

I'm not sure how much more simply I can put it, old boy. Sorry that you're not getting it.

Also, if not healthcare system in the world would cope with the peak herb immunity would create, why did our dear leader, in all his wisdom, opt to go with it?

Pr4wn wrote:I'm not sure how much more simply I can put it, old boy. Sorry that you're not getting it.

Also, if not healthcare system in the world would cope with the peak herb immunity would create, why did our dear leader, in all his wisdom, opt to go with it?

You're not actually explaining anything, there are far more factors to take into account. How does society react to being put straight into lockdown, as we saw from Paris if you tell people they can't go to a football match they just meet up in large crowds outside the ground instead.

Oh yes Boris Johnson took the decision on his own didn't he? He's got all these scientific advisors and medical experts around but he ignores them all goes his own course

Boris Johnson, as Prime Minister, makes the call. How can you not think he's responsible for that decision?

Pr4wn wrote:Boris Johnson, as Prime Minister, makes the call. How can you not think he's responsible for that decision?

He makes the call based on expert advice, he doesn't go his own way ignoring them, wow.

I see you're surprisingly ignoring all the other factors that need to be consider.

You haven't explained anything at all yet, chief. As usual, all you're trying to do is poke holes in others' arguments from a distance, without getting your hands dirty.

As I mentioned above, Boris made the final call and must be the one to take responsibility for making what was, clearly, a terrible decision. Suggesting that those providing the "expert advice" be the fall guys is just laughable, and a little pathetic.

It's down to you to explain not me and you're not doing.

Clearly a terrible decision? What is it that you do, i'm assuming you're an expert in these matters. You're just waffling like usual instead of providing any depth to your opinion, now that is pathetic.

Pr4wn wrote:Depressing isn't it? The government has been flat out lying to the British public about the EU procurement scheme and their "Herd Immunity" gamble has likely cost the UK hundreds of lives.

But Britain largely thinks that Johnson is doing a good job.

You have citable sources as to the veracity of both the lies and this ****ing 'herd immunity' non-story? Thought not. Christ. We have this pandemic and people are still politicking like this? Pathetic.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:Depressing isn't it? The government has been flat out lying to the British public about the EU procurement scheme and their "Herd Immunity" gamble has likely cost the UK hundreds of lives.

But Britain largely thinks that Johnson is doing a good job.

You have citable sources as to the veracity of both the lies and this ****ing 'herd immunity' non-story? Thought not. Christ. We have this pandemic and people are still politicking like this? Pathetic.

Govt put the Herd immunity statement out to ITV's Peston a few weeks ago and got hammered for it by the MSM...Universally acknowledged to have come from Cummings....

Also the Health Minister acknowledged that the Health Secretary's statement of 10k tests a day was inaccurate and that it was 7.5k..

Perhaps maybe you should research before you post....

Save us correcting you all the time..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:Depressing isn't it? The government has been flat out lying to the British public about the EU procurement scheme and their "Herd Immunity" gamble has likely cost the UK hundreds of lives.

But Britain largely thinks that Johnson is doing a good job.

You have citable sources as to the veracity of both the lies and this ****ing 'herd immunity' non-story? Thought not. Christ. We have this pandemic and people are still politicking like this? Pathetic.

Govt put the Herd immunity statement out to ITV's Peston a few weeks ago and got hammered for it by the MSM...Universally acknowledged to have come from Cummings....

Also the Health Minister acknowledged that the Health Secretary's statement of 10k tests a day was inaccurate and that it was 7.5k..

Perhaps maybe you should research before you post....

Save us correcting you all the time..

Pound it where the sun doesn't shine. Your bias is showing, TRUSS. Not a great look.

I think the idea that boris/Cummings are coming up with the strategies is a bit silly. the decision to lockdown will be based passing the most recent data into models built in advance. Likely as more data came in from Italy as opposed to the Chinese massaging their numbers, the output of the model

Locking down may feel safe but it's not ultimately a solution, it's a delaying tactic. You cant enforce a lockdown forever, so immunity will have to come from somewhere

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:Depressing isn't it? The government has been flat out lying to the British public about the EU procurement scheme and their "Herd Immunity" gamble has likely cost the UK hundreds of lives.

But Britain largely thinks that Johnson is doing a good job.

You have citable sources as to the veracity of both the lies and this ****ing 'herd immunity' non-story? Thought not. Christ. We have this pandemic and people are still politicking like this? Pathetic.

Govt put the Herd immunity statement out to ITV's Peston a few weeks ago and got hammered for it by the MSM...Universally acknowledged to have come from Cummings....

Also the Health Minister acknowledged that the Health Secretary's statement of 10k tests a day was inaccurate and that it was 7.5k..

Perhaps maybe you should research before you post....

Save us correcting you all the time..

Pound it where the sun doesn't shine. Your bias is showing, TRUSS. Not a great look.

Wind your neck in, bud. You're the one who looks like a complete tool here. You come on and insult everyone here, while offering nothing but bile. Do your own bloody homework.

Pr4wn wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:Depressing isn't it? The government has been flat out lying to the British public about the EU procurement scheme and their "Herd Immunity" gamble has likely cost the UK hundreds of lives.

But Britain largely thinks that Johnson is doing a good job.

You have citable sources as to the veracity of both the lies and this ****ing 'herd immunity' non-story? Thought not. Christ. We have this pandemic and people are still politicking like this? Pathetic.

Govt put the Herd immunity statement out to ITV's Peston a few weeks ago and got hammered for it by the MSM...Universally acknowledged to have come from Cummings....

Also the Health Minister acknowledged that the Health Secretary's statement of 10k tests a day was inaccurate and that it was 7.5k..

Perhaps maybe you should research before you post....

Save us correcting you all the time..

Pound it where the sun doesn't shine. Your bias is showing, TRUSS. Not a great look.

Wind your neck in, bud. You're the one who looks like a complete tool here. You come on and insult everyone here, while offering nothing but bile. Do your own bloody homework.

You'll find that that is you not Navy, wind your neck in.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:Depressing isn't it? The government has been flat out lying to the British public about the EU procurement scheme and their "Herd Immunity" gamble has likely cost the UK hundreds of lives.

But Britain largely thinks that Johnson is doing a good job.

You have citable sources as to the veracity of both the lies and this ****ing 'herd immunity' non-story? Thought not. Christ. We have this pandemic and people are still politicking like this? Pathetic.

Govt put the Herd immunity statement out to ITV's Peston a few weeks ago and got hammered for it by the MSM...Universally acknowledged to have come from Cummings....

Also the Health Minister acknowledged that the Health Secretary's statement of 10k tests a day was inaccurate and that it was 7.5k..

Perhaps maybe you should research before you post....

Save us correcting you all the time..

Pound it where the sun doesn't shine. Your bias is showing, TRUSS. Not a great look.

Wind your neck in, bud. You're the one who looks like a complete tool here. You come on and insult everyone here, while offering nothing but bile. Do your own bloody homework.

You'll find that that is you not Navy, wind your neck in.

What are you? The kid stood behind the bully shaking his fist saying "Yeah, what he said".

Your level of debating is amazing Pr4wn, I bow to you.

Pr4wn wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:Depressing isn't it? The government has been flat out lying to the British public about the EU procurement scheme and their "Herd Immunity" gamble has likely cost the UK hundreds of lives.

But Britain largely thinks that Johnson is doing a good job.

You have citable sources as to the veracity of both the lies and this ****ing 'herd immunity' non-story? Thought not. Christ. We have this pandemic and people are still politicking like this? Pathetic.

Govt put the Herd immunity statement out to ITV's Peston a few weeks ago and got hammered for it by the MSM...Universally acknowledged to have come from Cummings....

Also the Health Minister acknowledged that the Health Secretary's statement of 10k tests a day was inaccurate and that it was 7.5k..

Perhaps maybe you should research before you post....

Save us correcting you all the time..

Pound it where the sun doesn't shine. Your bias is showing, TRUSS. Not a great look.

Wind your neck in, bud. You're the one who looks like a complete tool here. You come on and insult everyone here, while offering nothing but bile. Do your own bloody homework.

'bud'?? Oooo, I'm scared.

I didn't make the initial point. You did. You support your argument. You can't though, can you?

Hypocrite. As a mod, you're worse than I am, and that's saying something.

Sigh.

Here you go, sir. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/uk-discussed-joint-eu-plan-to-buy-covid-19-medical-supplies-say-officials

Seeing as you probably won't read it, due to all the mouth-frothing anger, the summary is that the UK government took part in meeting with EU officials as early as January with the view of taking part in a purchasing scheme. The UK first denied it had taken part in this meeting, a lie. Its story as to why it didn't take advantage of this scheme to protect its front line workers and population has changed at least twice since then.

Here is just one of the many articles that you could have just googled yourself on herd immunity: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/17/britain-uk-coronavirus-response-johnson-drops-go-it-alone/

The policy was a disaster and the government, as with everything else, is refusing to take any responsibility for making this decision.

Not sure what the "I'm scared" thing is about.

That article makes a lot of assumptions as to what the original strategy was and in any case states it was embraced by the governments top scientists so Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance. The article makes use of no quotes and just states its own opinion of the situation, if that is what you're basing your opinion on then bud haha

You seem under the impression that lockdown is a solution to the pandemic when it isn't and you continually fail to acknowledge numerous other factors a government needs to consider.

Yet you have provided absolutely nothing to support your point whatsoever, as usual.

The only countries with falling infection rates are those that have been under lockdown.

I don't need to, you made the assertion not me.

Really? You'll find that the initial Japanese response was containment, lockdown came later. The same is also true of South Korea and Singapore. The countries who are dealing with this better than most initially relied of civil obedience rather than going straight into lockdown, there are phases to these things.

We live in a country full of idiots who spend their weekends kicking seven shades of Poopie out of eachother because of what football team they support. Idiots that once they were asked “please stay at home” decided it was a great time for a jolly to the beach or to the parks. A country full of idiots who have spent the last four years being spoonfed this idea of British exceptionalism, Keep Calm and Carry On, Spirit of the Blitz and all that other jingoistic Poopie.

Civil obedience was never on the cards in this country. If the population want to act like children they should be treated like children.

Responding to Duty who challenged me earlier to provide evidence for the numbers likely to have died due to austerity, here's the link to the paper: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/11/e017722.full

My apologies its 'only 120,000' deaths not 130,000.  

In addition we had 17,000 people with disabilities dying whilst waiting for their benefits: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pip-waiting-time-deaths-disabled-people-die-disability-benefits-personal-independence-payment-dwp-a8727296.html

My main point on this is that the dramatic about-face on turning on the taps of public spending which Sunak has done does rather weaken the case for the austerity we had rammed down our throats by government and 90% of the media, and which was enthusiastically supported by Boris and majority of his cabinet at the time - 'there's no alternative' was the mantra.

I support the government in their endeavours to control the pandemic in this country and they are (belatedly) starting to make the right decisions, but evidently years of ideological and unnecessary cuts have taken their toll, leaving our health system and other supporting structures unprepared for the carnage to come.  

We also had plenty of warning, but in January when we should have been ordering in ventilators and testing equipment the government were uninterested, more fixated on their ideological Brexit obsession to the exclusion of everything else.

MrInvisible wrote:Responding to Duty who challenged me earlier to provide evidence for the numbers likely to have died due to austerity, here's the link to the paper: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/11/e017722.full

My apologies its 'only 120,000' deaths not 130,000.

You will see that it says: "A limitation was that our study was observational and retrospective, thereby our findings likely capture association rather than causation."

My point wasn't that this paper doesn't exist, my point was that these deaths are not directly attributed to austerity and they cannot be explicitly linked together. You cannot say as a matter of fact that 'austerity has killed 120,000/130,000' because this has not been proven.

The taps are only being turned on now, spending wise, because this is an emergency that the UK hasn't seen since the Second World War.

The media is turning on the Tories....2% of NHS staff tested....Criminal shortage of PPE...

Never seen the Print media with front pages this hostile for a long time..

Incompetence running wild...

Like I said Starmer landslide..Inevitable.

@Duty: But we're starting to see more and more evidence backing this - take a look at this: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/life-expectancy-uk-plumments-ons-data-hartlepool-torridge-amber-valley-barnsley-a8164171.html

Life expectancy amongst the whole population has been increasing progressively over the decades, but figures released this year show it has *decreased* amongst deprived communities, with cuts identified as a major contributory factor.

Do you agree or disagree that people have died due to austerity who would not have died otherwise during this timeframe?  Which figure is acceptable for you?  For me its 0.

The social fabric of our country has been corroded during the past decade and the disabled and those in deprived communities have paid the highest price.

I am glad that the chancellor (one of the few government politicians to emerge so far from this crisis with any credit) is taking swift action to protect people from the economic effects of the pandemic, but when we all have to pay for this subsequently, the Tories have a long track record on making the poorest shoulder the burden the most.  I'd like to hope they have changed their ways but sadly feel that once we start to emerge from this crisis, they will go back to their bad old ways.

@Trussman: yes, 2% of NHS staff tested is shocking, especially as every day now we are starting to see frontline doctors amongst the rapidly swelling list of Covid-19 deaths.

In January and February when serious preparations should have been taking place in earnest, our government were complacent, asleep at the wheel and we lost valuable time during which we could have been procuring testing kits and ventilators, rather than leaving it to the last minute, like a lazy student faced with an imminent essay deadline.

We are paying dearly for this now.  We had more time to prepare than Italy, Spain and France but have squandered this.

MrInvisible wrote:@Trussman: yes, 2% of NHS staff tested is shocking, especially as every day now we are starting to see frontline doctors amongst the rapidly swelling list of Covid-19 deaths.

In January and February when serious preparations should have been taking place in earnest, our government were complacent, asleep at the wheel and we lost valuable time during which we could have been procuring testing kits and ventilators, rather than leaving it to the last minute, like a lazy student faced with an imminent essay deadline.

We are paying dearly for this now.  We had more time to prepare than Italy, Spain and France but have squandered this.

It's as easy as that is it?

If only the rest of the planet weren't trying to procure those things as well, there is a world shortage not a nationwide shortage.

950,000 New claims for Unemployment in the last two weeks....Many worrying they will have to wait 5 weeks for some money and many that live from pay check to pay check..

Scary time for some families having more than the virus to worry about ...Hope things turn out okay in the end..

Pr4wn wrote:Sigh.

Here you go, sir. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/uk-discussed-joint-eu-plan-to-buy-covid-19-medical-supplies-say-officials

Seeing as you probably won't read it, due to all the mouth-frothing anger, the summary is that the UK government took part in meeting with EU officials as early as January with the view of taking part in a purchasing scheme. The UK first denied it had taken part in this meeting, a lie. Its story as to why it didn't take advantage of this scheme to protect its front line workers and population has changed at least twice since then.

Here is just one of the many articles that you could have just googled yourself on herd immunity: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/17/britain-uk-coronavirus-response-johnson-drops-go-it-alone/

The policy was a disaster and the government, as with everything else, is refusing to take any responsibility for making this decision.

Not sure what the "I'm scared" thing is about.

Thank-you. You see? It can be done. Nice condescension, though. No surprise re. Grauniad citations. I had read that actually; forgot about it. Not sure it says a lot other than politicians aren't always honest. Hold the front pages.

The FP article is a bit of an odd one for you to suggest:

Imperial College epidemiologist Azra Ghani explained that his team had been “expecting herd immunity to build [but] we now realize it’s not possible to cope with that.” The U.K.’s posture has, accordingly, officially shifted from containment to “epidemic suppression … [as] the only viable strategy at the current time,” Ghani told journalists.

It's a bit rich to lay it all on Johnson.

Look, I'm not trying to be a Johnson/Cummings supporter, but I am heartily fed up of the obvious politicking and bias in the views people are putting forward at this point in time. Too many are looking at this through their Brexit/Jezza spectacles and trying to find anything to bash people who are trying to do their best. Will what they do be perfect? Highly unlikely. Should there be a post-pandemic review? Absolutely.

The 'scared' comment was relating to your use of 'bud', which is what so many do when they're threatening others.

Look, peace, OK? I'll wind my neck in, but perhaps consider your own posts, and I don't mean just to me, as well.

Samo wrote:We live in a country full of idiots who spend their weekends kicking seven shades of Poopie out of eachother because of what football team they support. Idiots that once they were asked “please stay at home” decided it was a great time for a jolly to the beach or to the parks. A country full of idiots who have spent the last four years being spoonfed this idea of British exceptionalism, Keep Calm and Carry On, Spirit of the Blitz and all that other jingoistic Poopie.

Civil obedience was never on the cards in this country. If the population want to act like children they should be treated like children.

Thus, we got Brexit.

I really doubt you'd appreciate it if we were told it was going to be the methods of Xi's China, would you? If UKG had done that, you'd just quietly say nothing and shout 'Bravo'?

MrInvisible wrote:@Trussman: yes, 2% of NHS staff tested is shocking, especially as every day now we are starting to see frontline doctors amongst the rapidly swelling list of Covid-19 deaths.

In January and February when serious preparations should have been taking place in earnest, our government were complacent, asleep at the wheel and we lost valuable time during which we could have been procuring testing kits and ventilators, rather than leaving it to the last minute, like a lazy student faced with an imminent essay deadline.

We are paying dearly for this now.  We had more time to prepare than Italy, Spain and France but have squandered this.

That isn't true. They heard about this at the same time the rest of the World did.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:950,000 New claims for Unemployment in the last two weeks....Many worrying they will have to wait 5 weeks for some money and many that live from pay check to pay check..

Scary time for some families having more than the virus to worry about ...Hope things turn out okay in the end..

This, we can agree on.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:We live in a country full of idiots who spend their weekends kicking seven shades of Poopie out of eachother because of what football team they support. Idiots that once they were asked “please stay at home” decided it was a great time for a jolly to the beach or to the parks. A country full of idiots who have spent the last four years being spoonfed this idea of British exceptionalism, Keep Calm and Carry On, Spirit of the Blitz and all that other jingoistic Poopie.

Civil obedience was never on the cards in this country. If the population want to act like children they should be treated like children.

Thus, we got Brexit.

I really doubt you'd appreciate it if we were told it was going to be the methods of Xi's China, would you? If UKG had done that, you'd just quietly say nothing and shout 'Bravo'?

My fiance is classed as a vunerable person whilst I still need to work with the public, so I go home everyday Poopie myself that I might bring something home with me. If it takes extreme measures to save more lives and get us out of this mess quicker then I think the ends justify the means.

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:We live in a country full of idiots who spend their weekends kicking seven shades of Poopie out of eachother because of what football team they support. Idiots that once they were asked “please stay at home” decided it was a great time for a jolly to the beach or to the parks. A country full of idiots who have spent the last four years being spoonfed this idea of British exceptionalism, Keep Calm and Carry On, Spirit of the Blitz and all that other jingoistic Poopie.

Civil obedience was never on the cards in this country. If the population want to act like children they should be treated like children.

Thus, we got Brexit.

I really doubt you'd appreciate it if we were told it was going to be the methods of Xi's China, would you? If UKG had done that, you'd just quietly say nothing and shout 'Bravo'?

My fiance is classed as a vunerable person whilst I still need to work with the public, so I go home everyday Poopie myself that I might bring something home with me.  If it takes extreme measures to save more lives and get us out of this mess quicker then I think the ends justify the means.

Fair play for acknowledging a changing view.

Best wishes to you and the fianceé.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:We live in a country full of idiots who spend their weekends kicking seven shades of Poopie out of eachother because of what football team they support. Idiots that once they were asked “please stay at home” decided it was a great time for a jolly to the beach or to the parks. A country full of idiots who have spent the last four years being spoonfed this idea of British exceptionalism, Keep Calm and Carry On, Spirit of the Blitz and all that other jingoistic Poopie.

Civil obedience was never on the cards in this country. If the population want to act like children they should be treated like children.

Thus, we got Brexit.

I really doubt you'd appreciate it if we were told it was going to be the methods of Xi's China, would you? If UKG had done that, you'd just quietly say nothing and shout 'Bravo'?

My fiance is classed as a vunerable person whilst I still need to work with the public, so I go home everyday Poopie myself that I might bring something home with me.  If it takes extreme measures to save more lives and get us out of this mess quicker then I think the ends justify the means.

Fair play for acknowledging a changing view.

Best wishes to you and the fianceé.

Thank you, and I apologise if I come across as standoff-ish, but when my family are at risk I have a pretty low tolerance for stupidity.

Yougov....

Covid 19..Would you rather prioritise protecting every life or Prioritise protecting the Economy ???

Every life....71%
Economy.....8%
Don't know..21% ???????

Seems a pretty black and white question to me..