Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

Pr4wn wrote:Why are 16 and 17 year olds old enough to pay tax but not old enough to vote?

Good point, take them out of having to pay tax.

I think the problem is the areas of grey that exist - ultimately the "economy" is very abstract and people don't tend to think of it in terms of their own life. There is a balance where the restrictions tank the economy to the point that we see more loss of life, both short term and long term, than from Covid-19. 

It's impossible to manage perfectly though and I obviously don't have the answers, but I'm not sure it's simple as putting lives versus the economy, as both are linked.

You'll have some extreme environmentalists who will see the current situation as benefiting their cause.

Crimey wrote:I think the problem is the areas of grey that exist - ultimately the "economy" is very abstract and people don't tend to think of it in terms of their own life. There is a balance where the restrictions tank the economy to the point that we see more loss of life, both short term and long term, than from Covid-19. 

It's impossible to manage perfectly though and I obviously don't have the answers, but I'm not sure it's simple as putting lives versus the economy, as both are linked.

Not sure the poll was meant to be that deep...

Should lives be saved at any cost seems black and white enough to me..

But each to our own....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Crimey wrote:I think the problem is the areas of grey that exist - ultimately the "economy" is very abstract and people don't tend to think of it in terms of their own life. There is a balance where the restrictions tank the economy to the point that we see more loss of life, both short term and long term, than from Covid-19. 

It's impossible to manage perfectly though and I obviously don't have the answers, but I'm not sure it's simple as putting lives versus the economy, as both are linked.

Not sure the poll was meant to be that deep...

Should lives be saved at any cost seems black and white enough to me..

But each to our own....

It's classic trolley problem really (without accurate data).

If protecting people from dying from the pandemic by shutting the economy down is 5 people on the train tracks and keeping the economy going is 1 person on the other tracks, would you switch the trolley to the other track? 

Some would say yes, some would say no - it's really not black and white as saying "all lives should be saved at all cost" as we have an unknown of how many lives would be lost as a result of the economy crashing - history tells us that it's a lot!

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:We live in a country full of idiots who spend their weekends kicking seven shades of Poopie out of eachother because of what football team they support. Idiots that once they were asked “please stay at home” decided it was a great time for a jolly to the beach or to the parks. A country full of idiots who have spent the last four years being spoonfed this idea of British exceptionalism, Keep Calm and Carry On, Spirit of the Blitz and all that other jingoistic Poopie.

Civil obedience was never on the cards in this country. If the population want to act like children they should be treated like children.

Thus, we got Brexit.

I really doubt you'd appreciate it if we were told it was going to be the methods of Xi's China, would you? If UKG had done that, you'd just quietly say nothing and shout 'Bravo'?

My fiance is classed as a vunerable person whilst I still need to work with the public, so I go home everyday Poopie myself that I might bring something home with me.  If it takes extreme measures to save more lives and get us out of this mess quicker then I think the ends justify the means.

Fair play for acknowledging a changing view.

Best wishes to you and the fianceé.

Thank you, and I apologise if I come across as standoff-ish, but when my family are at risk I have a pretty low tolerance for stupidity.

No worries. Stressful times.

Crimey wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Crimey wrote:I think the problem is the areas of grey that exist - ultimately the "economy" is very abstract and people don't tend to think of it in terms of their own life. There is a balance where the restrictions tank the economy to the point that we see more loss of life, both short term and long term, than from Covid-19. 

It's impossible to manage perfectly though and I obviously don't have the answers, but I'm not sure it's simple as putting lives versus the economy, as both are linked.

Not sure the poll was meant to be that deep...

Should lives be saved at any cost seems black and white enough to me..

But each to our own....

It's classic trolley problem really (without accurate data).

If protecting people from dying from the pandemic by shutting the economy down is 5 people on the train tracks and keeping the economy going is 1 person on the other tracks, would you switch the trolley to the other track? 

Some would say yes, some would say no - it's really not black and white as saying "all lives should be saved at all cost" as we have an unknown of how many lives would be lost as a result of the economy crashing - history tells us that it's a lot!

Yep. Pretty pointless poll really. The situation is nuanced, but they ask a black/white question .

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Yougov....

Covid 19..Would you rather prioritise protecting every life or Prioritise protecting the Economy ???

Every life....71%
Economy.....8%
Don't know..21% ???????

Seems a pretty black and white question to me..

Without an economy there would be mass starvation and no NHS.


Hence I agree with:

navyblueshorts wrote:Yep. Pretty pointless poll really. The situation is nuanced, but they ask a black/white question .

Crimey wrote:I think the problem is the areas of grey that exist - ultimately the "economy" is very abstract and people don't tend to think of it in terms of their own life. There is a balance where the restrictions tank the economy to the point that we see more loss of life, both short term and long term, than from Covid-19. 

It's impossible to manage perfectly though and I obviously don't have the answers, but I'm not sure it's simple as putting lives versus the economy, as both are linked.

My thoughts exactly. It is a balancing act ...and a damned difficult one as we really cannot be sure of anything no matter how many studies are carried out since the data just isn't complete.

Frankly don't envy political leaders everywhere who have to make decisions based on advice from numerous experts who are not even fully agreed themselves. At the moment I am actually prepared to cut most - even the ones I really don't rate or like - a little slack. And hope they get it right ...or as "right" as is possible...

Interesting to see if Starmer needs a second round to win the Leadership...

Oddsmakers have 50-55% as favourite for his first round share...So not a foregone conclusion he smashes it first time around though I'd be surprised if he didn't..

Bigger the win...Bigger the mandate..

Starmer wins in the first round, Rayner wins in the third round.

The latest YouGov poll reads 52% Conservative, 28% Labour. Four years and a month for Starmer to turn it around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7r_-Nrrs7o

Annaliese Dodds good choice as Shadow Chancellor....

Scottish (Labour has only one seat in Scotland)....Experience opposing in the treasury brief and was prepared to work for Corbyn despite not being a leftie..

So, Johnson will be in intensive care for a 3rd night. Whilst I do not like the guy or his politics (and feel he was way too cavalier on the virus earlier on, including risk to himself by lack of precautions), on a personal level I hope he pulls through. Fingers crossed for him, but also hoping we can get some decision making at the top level during this critical time. If Johnson can get through this (and let's hope he does) surely he's out of action for a few weeks whilst he recovers, and the power struggles may continue whilst there are question marks on his health.

I'm not convinced that Raab is the right man for the moment - doesn't command confidence. Hancock and Sunak come across better though in what is a pretty weak cabinet that's not saying a huge amount.

The death toll in UK is horrific at moment - surely we can make a firm decision already on extending the lockdown now, for at least another 2 weeks? Don't know about others on here but it's starting to really hit home - we know of 3 people - not close friends as such, but people in our community - friends of friends, staff at little one's school, etc, who have died due to this horrible virus.

Shocking number of daily deaths being reported in UK now - not far off 1,000 and highest 1 day total anywhere in Europe.

At the press conferences we keep hearing promises - on PPE, on testing, on impressive sounding figures for the future, but it is the lack of PPE and testing to date which is leading to such a ghastly death toll already.

I'm glad that Johnson is making a good recovery, but our media (and opposition) really needs to be holding the government to account on the bigger picture - given the extra time we had to learn from experience of countries who were going through this earlier, there is no excuse for the lack of preparations, and the mounting of toll of preventable deaths from frontline doctors and nurses who did not have PPE is appalling.

Just been out and seen plenty of people ignoring lockdown - a group of kids scaling a playground gate (where's the parents) and playing on the play equipment, a big family gathering in local park enjoying a picnic as if nothing's happening. Folks in the supermarket barging past ignoring the social distancing. And we live in a hotspot area, with lots of people having passed away already in the hospital up the road.

On a brighter note, the number of new cases appears to be reaching its peak in UK, but we're a long way before things get better, and people putting pressure on government to reopen schools need their head examining.

MrInvisible wrote:Shocking number of daily deaths being reported in UK now - not far off 1,000 and highest 1 day total anywhere in Europe.  

At the press conferences we keep hearing promises - on PPE, on testing, on impressive sounding figures for the future, but it is the lack of PPE and testing to date which is leading to such a ghastly death toll already.

I'm glad that Johnson is making a good recovery, but our media (and opposition) really needs to be holding the government to account on the bigger picture - given the extra time we had to learn from experience of countries who were going through this earlier, there is no excuse for the lack of preparations, and the mounting of toll of preventable deaths from frontline doctors and nurses who did not have PPE is appalling.

Just been out and seen plenty of people ignoring lockdown - a group of kids scaling a playground gate (where's the parents) and playing on the play equipment, a big family gathering in local park enjoying a picnic as if nothing's happening.  Folks in the supermarket barging past ignoring the social distancing.  And we live in a hotspot area, with lots of people having passed away already in the hospital up the road.

On a brighter note, the number of new cases appears to be reaching its peak in UK, but we're a long way before things get better, and people putting pressure on government to reopen schools need their head examining.

Don't be ridiculous; you're letting your politics get in the way of everything. Have you listened to the banal, repetitive questions asked by the media at the daily briefings? They're utterly scheisse. Some of them need to have a good look at themselves in the mirror.

Stop extrapolating re. PPE/testing. As to PPE, what does that have to do w/ deaths in the wider public?

Alongside increased ventilator production, we also need a lot of stocks produced. Those flaunting lockdown should be put in stocks and pelted with whatever comes to hand.

In terms of lockdown and when it should be relaxed, don't hold your breath. This is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

Not sure why asking how many Nurses have died is banal...Not sure why asking why the Govt was so slow to implement lockdown is banal...

Both questions met with smokescreening garbage as usual.

You want to live in a dictatorship where no one speaks truth to power feel free to leave...I prefer Democracy and Govts being held to account..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not sure why asking how many Nurses have died is banal...Not sure why asking why the Govt was so slow to implement lockdown is banal...

Both questions met with smokescreening garbage as usual.

You want to live in a dictatorship where no one speaks truth to power feel free to leave...I prefer Democracy and Govts being held to account..

:sigh: I didn't say all questions asked were banal.

Legitimate to ask about the speed we were locked down (and you can be sure there'll be a debriefing when this is all done), but actually quite funny that you think it's appropriate, but in the same breath talk about not wanting to live in a dictatorship. I have no doubt if we'd been shut down in, say Feb, and were now into week 6-8 of this, you'd a) have been among the first to shout about a so-called dictatorship curbing everyone's freedoms and b) the UK population, with the significant section who have the attention span of a fruit fly, would be bored and breaking the rules by now even more than they are.

The lack of PPE continues to cause concern - Hancock confirmed yesterday that 19 NHS staff have died as result of Covid-19.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52252470

A survey from the BMA on Tuesday revealed over half of doctors in high-risk environments reporting a lack of PPE. This is simply not good enough. It puts both the staff and the patients at unnecessary risk (particularly when combined with the lack of testing - asymptomatic medical staff without PPE may well be passing the virus on to patients and others they come into contact with).

MrInvisible wrote:The lack of PPE continues to cause concern - Hancock confirmed yesterday that 19 NHS staff have died as result of Covid-19.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52252470

A survey from the BMA on Tuesday revealed over half of doctors in high-risk environments reporting a lack of PPE.  This is simply not good enough.  It puts both the staff and the patients at unnecessary risk (particularly when combined with the lack of testing - asymptomatic medical staff without PPE may well be passing the virus on to patients and others they come into contact with).

Every country is reporting a shortage of PPE, the way people like you go on youd think this was a national only problem.

The UK doesn't manufacture medical grade PP equipment. The UK gave up its manufacturing base a long time ago - it now imports such equipment from places such as China, Taiwan, SE Asia. However these countries are retaining such equipment for their own use. That is why there has been a lack of PPE in the UK.

I would imagine it wasnt stockpiled for this eventuality but that does seem to be a global issue

Soul Requiem wrote:

MrInvisible wrote:The lack of PPE continues to cause concern - Hancock confirmed yesterday that 19 NHS staff have died as result of Covid-19.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52252470

A survey from the BMA on Tuesday revealed over half of doctors in high-risk environments reporting a lack of PPE.  This is simply not good enough.  It puts both the staff and the patients at unnecessary risk (particularly when combined with the lack of testing - asymptomatic medical staff without PPE may well be passing the virus on to patients and others they come into contact with).

Every country is reporting a shortage of PPE, the way people like you go on youd think this was a national only problem.

But barely any countries are having the number of daily deaths that the UK is having. Definitely not the government's fault, though. Oh no. It's those pesky advisers. Or the experts. Or something to do with horoscopes.

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

MrInvisible wrote:The lack of PPE continues to cause concern - Hancock confirmed yesterday that 19 NHS staff have died as result of Covid-19.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52252470

A survey from the BMA on Tuesday revealed over half of doctors in high-risk environments reporting a lack of PPE.  This is simply not good enough.  It puts both the staff and the patients at unnecessary risk (particularly when combined with the lack of testing - asymptomatic medical staff without PPE may well be passing the virus on to patients and others they come into contact with).

Every country is reporting a shortage of PPE, the way people like you go on youd think this was a national only problem.

But barely any countries are having the number of daily deaths that the UK is having. Definitely not the government's fault, though. Oh no. It's those pesky advisers. Or the experts. Or something to do with horoscopes.

What?

Italy, Spain, France and the USA would say otherwise. The only major economy in Europe who can say they've dealt with this particularly well is Germany. Well thought out argument as always.

navyblueshorts wrote:

MrInvisible wrote:Shocking number of daily deaths being reported in UK now - not far off 1,000 and highest 1 day total anywhere in Europe.  

At the press conferences we keep hearing promises - on PPE, on testing, on impressive sounding figures for the future, but it is the lack of PPE and testing to date which is leading to such a ghastly death toll already.

I'm glad that Johnson is making a good recovery, but our media (and opposition) really needs to be holding the government to account on the bigger picture - given the extra time we had to learn from experience of countries who were going through this earlier, there is no excuse for the lack of preparations, and the mounting of toll of preventable deaths from frontline doctors and nurses who did not have PPE is appalling.

Just been out and seen plenty of people ignoring lockdown - a group of kids scaling a playground gate (where's the parents) and playing on the play equipment, a big family gathering in local park enjoying a picnic as if nothing's happening.  Folks in the supermarket barging past ignoring the social distancing.  And we live in a hotspot area, with lots of people having passed away already in the hospital up the road.

On a brighter note, the number of new cases appears to be reaching its peak in UK, but we're a long way before things get better, and people putting pressure on government to reopen schools need their head examining.

Don't be ridiculous; you're letting your politics get in the way of everything. Have you listened to the banal, repetitive questions asked by the media at the daily briefings? They're utterly scheisse. Some of them need to have a good look at themselves in the mirror.

Stop extrapolating re. PPE/testing. As to PPE, what does that have to do w/ deaths in the wider public?

Alongside increased ventilator production, we also need a lot of stocks produced. Those flaunting lockdown should be put in stocks and pelted with whatever comes to hand.

In terms of lockdown and when it should be relaxed, don't hold your breath. This is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

One of the big issues so far has been the number of NHS frontline staff available to work. Lack of testing means that everytime they get a cough or sniffle they are off work, which means fewer out there saving lives. That seems finally to be getting fixed.

Lack of PPE means that those coughs and sniffles can be the real thing - which means staff who should be saving lifes are instead needing to be saved themselves.

So yes lack of PPE does have an impact on death rates by reducing the number of front line staff.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:But barely any countries are having the number of daily deaths that the UK is having...

What?

Italy, Spain, France and the USA would say otherwise. The only major economy in Europe who can say they've dealt with this particularly well is Germany. Well thought out argument as always.

Germany is compiling the figures differently.  It is being claimed that Germany is recording a proportion of the deaths due to coronavirus as due to the underlying medical condition.  Remember many of the deaths are due to people getting coronavirus who have serious underlying medical issues.   The claims appear to be correct but how much this effects the numbers they are reporting is difficult to determine, but it would be higher.

ps: Currently it looks like Belgium is being hit hard - it has a smaller population, and may end up having the highest deaths as recorded as deaths per million of population. Anyway everything is in a state of flux so it is difficult to make definite statements at the moment.

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

MrInvisible wrote:The lack of PPE continues to cause concern - Hancock confirmed yesterday that 19 NHS staff have died as result of Covid-19.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52252470

A survey from the BMA on Tuesday revealed over half of doctors in high-risk environments reporting a lack of PPE.  This is simply not good enough.  It puts both the staff and the patients at unnecessary risk (particularly when combined with the lack of testing - asymptomatic medical staff without PPE may well be passing the virus on to patients and others they come into contact with).

Every country is reporting a shortage of PPE, the way people like you go on youd think this was a national only problem.

But barely any countries are having the number of daily deaths that the UK is having. Definitely not the government's fault, though. Oh no. It's those pesky advisers. Or the experts. Or something to do with horoscopes.

You should try looking at things as they are, instead of through your patented political bias glasses. I'm afraid you appear to look for things to support your already pre-formed conclusions; not the best approach.

lostinwales wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

MrInvisible wrote:Shocking number of daily deaths being reported in UK now - not far off 1,000 and highest 1 day total anywhere in Europe.  

At the press conferences we keep hearing promises - on PPE, on testing, on impressive sounding figures for the future, but it is the lack of PPE and testing to date which is leading to such a ghastly death toll already.

I'm glad that Johnson is making a good recovery, but our media (and opposition) really needs to be holding the government to account on the bigger picture - given the extra time we had to learn from experience of countries who were going through this earlier, there is no excuse for the lack of preparations, and the mounting of toll of preventable deaths from frontline doctors and nurses who did not have PPE is appalling.

Just been out and seen plenty of people ignoring lockdown - a group of kids scaling a playground gate (where's the parents) and playing on the play equipment, a big family gathering in local park enjoying a picnic as if nothing's happening.  Folks in the supermarket barging past ignoring the social distancing.  And we live in a hotspot area, with lots of people having passed away already in the hospital up the road.

On a brighter note, the number of new cases appears to be reaching its peak in UK, but we're a long way before things get better, and people putting pressure on government to reopen schools need their head examining.

Don't be ridiculous; you're letting your politics get in the way of everything. Have you listened to the banal, repetitive questions asked by the media at the daily briefings? They're utterly scheisse. Some of them need to have a good look at themselves in the mirror.

Stop extrapolating re. PPE/testing. As to PPE, what does that have to do w/ deaths in the wider public?

Alongside increased ventilator production, we also need a lot of stocks produced. Those flaunting lockdown should be put in stocks and pelted with whatever comes to hand.

In terms of lockdown and when it should be relaxed, don't hold your breath. This is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

One of the big issues so far has been the number of NHS frontline staff available to work. Lack of testing means that everytime they get a cough or sniffle they are off work, which means fewer out there saving lives. That seems finally to be getting fixed.

Lack of PPE means that those coughs and sniffles can be the real thing - which means staff who should be saving lifes are instead needing to be saved themselves.

So yes lack of PPE does have an impact on death rates by reducing the number of front line staff.

Hate to say so, but 'tis the season (although getting to end of it) for coughs/sniffles. PPE has little to do w/ this. Testing is an issue, I agree, but we are where we are - do you think this isn't a priority for fixing? They've been ramping this since at least early March - our place sent ~20,000 test capacity machinery to Milton Keynes several weeks back but, for example, I've heard from people who know first hand that it appears the U.S. had ordered that consumables had been ordered back to U.S.
Too many want this to be simplistic good vs. evil - it's not.

Trump invoking the Korean war act and blocking 3m exporting to any other country is an issue, 200,000 units destined for Germany were rerouted to the US for example.

Soul Requiem wrote:Trump invoking the Korean war act and blocking 3m exporting to any other country is an issue, 200,000 units destined for Germany were rerouted to the US for example.

This sort of thing is an issue, but it's understandable. And yet so many want to ignore this sort of issue in the name of flogging their preferred political dead horse. Don't suppose it'll ever change.

It was nice of Priti Patel to come out from whatever rock she was hiding under to remind us all that she’s a vile human being and an embarrassment to the office she occupies.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

MrInvisible wrote:The lack of PPE continues to cause concern - Hancock confirmed yesterday that 19 NHS staff have died as result of Covid-19.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52252470

A survey from the BMA on Tuesday revealed over half of doctors in high-risk environments reporting a lack of PPE.  This is simply not good enough.  It puts both the staff and the patients at unnecessary risk (particularly when combined with the lack of testing - asymptomatic medical staff without PPE may well be passing the virus on to patients and others they come into contact with).

Every country is reporting a shortage of PPE, the way people like you go on youd think this was a national only problem.

But barely any countries are having the number of daily deaths that the UK is having. Definitely not the government's fault, though. Oh no. It's those pesky advisers. Or the experts. Or something to do with horoscopes.

You should try looking at things as they are, instead of through your patented political bias glasses. I'm afraid you appear to look for things to support your already pre-formed conclusions; not the best approach.

The UK just had three days of higher death totals than Spain and Italy. This is all while the official UK number consists only of those who have died in hospital, not those who die in nursing homes etc.

We also have a PM who has been grossly negligent and it's not political bias (how bloody patronising) to call that out.

"I shook hands with all of them". Muppet.

To Date: Deaths Attributed to Coronavirus & Reported Per Million of Population
San Marino: 1,032
Spain: 355
Andorra: 337
Italy: 322
Belgium: 289
France: 212
Sint Maarten (Caribbean): 210
Netherlands: 154
UK: 145
Switzerland:120
Luxembourg: 99
Sweden: 88
Ireland: 65
Bermuda: 64
USA: 62
Iran: 52
Channel Islands: 52
Saint Martin (Caribbean): 52
Portugal: 46
.....
Germany: 34
.....
China: 2

Sweden is interesting as it doesn't have a lockdown.

Sweden has not closed its borders or its schools. Neither has it closed non-essential businesses or banned gatherings of more than two people, like the U.K. and Germany.

Sweden’s response to the outbreak is being overseen largely by the country’s Public Health Agency. It has taken a conspicuously different approach to the coronavirus from its international peers, trusting the public to adopt voluntary, softer measures to delay the spread of the virus.

How many People have died in care homes ???

"Don't Know"

How many Nurses have died ??

Health Secretary...."Errr...I'll pass this question over"

30 Ventilators instead of 3,000 ordered..

Blaming NHS staff for misusing PPE..

Only 2,000 loans handed out to hundreds of thousands of struggling businesses...

The public unsure what "Essential" means..


But it's okay folks because Coco the Clown is sitting up in bed watching Mary Poppins..

Pr4wn wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

MrInvisible wrote:The lack of PPE continues to cause concern - Hancock confirmed yesterday that 19 NHS staff have died as result of Covid-19.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52252470

A survey from the BMA on Tuesday revealed over half of doctors in high-risk environments reporting a lack of PPE.  This is simply not good enough.  It puts both the staff and the patients at unnecessary risk (particularly when combined with the lack of testing - asymptomatic medical staff without PPE may well be passing the virus on to patients and others they come into contact with).

Every country is reporting a shortage of PPE, the way people like you go on youd think this was a national only problem.

But barely any countries are having the number of daily deaths that the UK is having. Definitely not the government's fault, though. Oh no. It's those pesky advisers. Or the experts. Or something to do with horoscopes.

You should try looking at things as they are, instead of through your patented political bias glasses. I'm afraid you appear to look for things to support your already pre-formed conclusions; not the best approach.

The UK just had three days of higher death totals than Spain and Italy. This is all while the official UK number consists only of those who have died in hospital, not those who die in nursing homes etc.

We also have a PM who has been grossly negligent and it's not political bias (how bloody patronising) to call that out.

"I shook hands with all of them". Muppet.

Is that me, or the PM, you're referring to as 'muppet'?

The PM, of course. Unless you bragged about shaking hands with people during a pandemic?

Pr4wn wrote:The PM, of course. Unless you bragged about shaking hands with people during a pandemic?

Good to know. I wasn't suggesting that UKG shouldn't be 'called out' on anything, just that you have a habit, IMO, of only criticising the current Government and its members. You have an agenda, IMO, and you tend to argue/evidence only those points that support your pre-existing position.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:The PM, of course. Unless you bragged about shaking hands with people during a pandemic?

Good to know. I wasn't suggesting that UKG shouldn't be 'called out' on anything, just that you have a habit, IMO, of only criticising the current Government and its members. You have an agenda, IMO, and you tend to argue/evidence only those points that support your pre-existing position.

Which government would you like him to criticise?

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:The PM, of course. Unless you bragged about shaking hands with people during a pandemic?

Good to know. I wasn't suggesting that UKG shouldn't be 'called out' on anything, just that you have a habit, IMO, of only criticising the current Government and its members. You have an agenda, IMO, and you tend to argue/evidence only those points that support your pre-existing position.

Which government would you like him to criticise?  

The last time I checked this was a global pandemic, the way some people go on you'd think it was a national issue.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:The PM, of course. Unless you bragged about shaking hands with people during a pandemic?

Good to know. I wasn't suggesting that UKG shouldn't be 'called out' on anything, just that you have a habit, IMO, of only criticising the current Government and its members. You have an agenda, IMO, and you tend to argue/evidence only those points that support your pre-existing position.

Which government would you like him to criticise?  

The last time I checked this was a global pandemic, the way some people go on you'd think it was a national issue.

The last time I checked foreign governments werent responsible for British domestic policy.

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:The PM, of course. Unless you bragged about shaking hands with people during a pandemic?

Good to know. I wasn't suggesting that UKG shouldn't be 'called out' on anything, just that you have a habit, IMO, of only criticising the current Government and its members. You have an agenda, IMO, and you tend to argue/evidence only those points that support your pre-existing position.

Which government would you like him to criticise?  

Well, there's obviously only one just now, so this one. He's just, however, continuing the tirades that were commonplace before this Government took office. I think he'd rather die that acknowledge that anyone in this Government might either have done something positive or that any of them might actually not be as evil as he'd like. It just gets boring; he's not alone either.

I may be, and quite possibly am, doing him an injustice; in which case he has my apologies. TBH, anyone posting anything that's in disagreement w/ the typical left-of-centre postings that are more common here get's panned, no matter the validity of the post concerned. If you want a simple echo chamber, keep it up.

TBH, I'm pretty tired of the polarisation of things in this country. Tired of the social media attitudes of shouting down anyone that doesn't agree w/ a majority. Just tired of it all.

Pr4wn wrote:

The UK just had three days of higher death totals than Spain and Italy. This is all while the official UK number consists only of those who have died in hospital, not those who die in nursing homes etc.

This will be shocking to know but that's exactly what Spain and Italy are doing too, i'd never have expected Pr4wn of all people to try and twist things in such a way.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:The PM, of course. Unless you bragged about shaking hands with people during a pandemic?

Good to know. I wasn't suggesting that UKG shouldn't be 'called out' on anything, just that you have a habit, IMO, of only criticising the current Government and its members. You have an agenda, IMO, and you tend to argue/evidence only those points that support your pre-existing position.

Which government would you like him to criticise?  

Well, there's obviously only one just now, so this one. He's just, however, continuing the tirades that were commonplace before this Government took office. I think he'd rather die that acknowledge that anyone in this Government might either have done something positive or that any of them might actually not be as evil as he'd like. It just gets boring; he's not alone either.

I may be, and quite possibly am, doing him an injustice; in which case he has my apologies. TBH, anyone posting anything that's in disagreement w/ the typical left-of-centre postings that are more common here get's panned, no matter the validity of the post concerned. If you want a simple echo chamber, keep it up.

TBH, I'm pretty tired of the polarisation of things in this country. Tired of the social media attitudes of shouting down anyone that doesn't agree w/ a majority. Just tired of it all.

Wholeheartedly agree.

The Great Gonzo - now there's a right muppet.

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:The PM, of course. Unless you bragged about shaking hands with people during a pandemic?

Good to know. I wasn't suggesting that UKG shouldn't be 'called out' on anything, just that you have a habit, IMO, of only criticising the current Government and its members. You have an agenda, IMO, and you tend to argue/evidence only those points that support your pre-existing position.

Which government would you like him to criticise?  

Well, there's obviously only one just now, so this one. He's just, however, continuing the tirades that were commonplace before this Government took office. I think he'd rather die that acknowledge that anyone in this Government might either have done something positive or that any of them might actually not be as evil as he'd like. It just gets boring; he's not alone either.

I may be, and quite possibly am, doing him an injustice; in which case he has my apologies. TBH, anyone posting anything that's in disagreement w/ the typical left-of-centre postings that are more common here get's panned, no matter the validity of the post concerned. If you want a simple echo chamber, keep it up.

TBH, I'm pretty tired of the polarisation of things in this country. Tired of the social media attitudes of shouting down anyone that doesn't agree w/ a majority. Just tired of it all.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Agree, there's no such thing as actual debate, and learning from each side. Just my sides right.

Unfortunately that's the way of the world nowadays, 1st thought is who can we blame.

Luke wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:The PM, of course. Unless you bragged about shaking hands with people during a pandemic?

Good to know. I wasn't suggesting that UKG shouldn't be 'called out' on anything, just that you have a habit, IMO, of only criticising the current Government and its members. You have an agenda, IMO, and you tend to argue/evidence only those points that support your pre-existing position.

Which government would you like him to criticise?  

Well, there's obviously only one just now, so this one. He's just, however, continuing the tirades that were commonplace before this Government took office. I think he'd rather die that acknowledge that anyone in this Government might either have done something positive or that any of them might actually not be as evil as he'd like. It just gets boring; he's not alone either.

I may be, and quite possibly am, doing him an injustice; in which case he has my apologies. TBH, anyone posting anything that's in disagreement w/ the typical left-of-centre postings that are more common here get's panned, no matter the validity of the post concerned. If you want a simple echo chamber, keep it up.

TBH, I'm pretty tired of the polarisation of things in this country. Tired of the social media attitudes of shouting down anyone that doesn't agree w/ a majority. Just tired of it all.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Agree, there's no such thing as actual debate, and learning from each side. Just my sides right.

Unfortunately that's the way of the world nowadays, 1st thought is who can we blame.

What a stupid tweet...

Thousands of people are dying and some unnecessarily.........But lets not try to blame anybody for it even if they are culpable because there is too much blaming these days...

Get a grip...Grow up...

I think its about time you took your own advice and grew up yourself, your whole attitude stinks and to be honest theres almost glee in your posting.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Luke wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:The PM, of course. Unless you bragged about shaking hands with people during a pandemic?

Good to know. I wasn't suggesting that UKG shouldn't be 'called out' on anything, just that you have a habit, IMO, of only criticising the current Government and its members. You have an agenda, IMO, and you tend to argue/evidence only those points that support your pre-existing position.

Which government would you like him to criticise?  

Well, there's obviously only one just now, so this one. He's just, however, continuing the tirades that were commonplace before this Government took office. I think he'd rather die that acknowledge that anyone in this Government might either have done something positive or that any of them might actually not be as evil as he'd like. It just gets boring; he's not alone either.

I may be, and quite possibly am, doing him an injustice; in which case he has my apologies. TBH, anyone posting anything that's in disagreement w/ the typical left-of-centre postings that are more common here get's panned, no matter the validity of the post concerned. If you want a simple echo chamber, keep it up.

TBH, I'm pretty tired of the polarisation of things in this country. Tired of the social media attitudes of shouting down anyone that doesn't agree w/ a majority. Just tired of it all.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Agree, there's no such thing as actual debate, and learning from each side. Just my sides right.

Unfortunately that's the way of the world nowadays, 1st thought is who can we blame.

What a stupid tweet...

Thousands of people are dying and some unnecessarily.........But lets not try to blame anybody for it even if they are culpable because there is too much blaming these days...

Get a grip...Grow up...

Q.E.D.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Luke wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:The PM, of course. Unless you bragged about shaking hands with people during a pandemic?

Good to know. I wasn't suggesting that UKG shouldn't be 'called out' on anything, just that you have a habit, IMO, of only criticising the current Government and its members. You have an agenda, IMO, and you tend to argue/evidence only those points that support your pre-existing position.

Which government would you like him to criticise?  

Well, there's obviously only one just now, so this one. He's just, however, continuing the tirades that were commonplace before this Government took office. I think he'd rather die that acknowledge that anyone in this Government might either have done something positive or that any of them might actually not be as evil as he'd like. It just gets boring; he's not alone either.

I may be, and quite possibly am, doing him an injustice; in which case he has my apologies. TBH, anyone posting anything that's in disagreement w/ the typical left-of-centre postings that are more common here get's panned, no matter the validity of the post concerned. If you want a simple echo chamber, keep it up.

TBH, I'm pretty tired of the polarisation of things in this country. Tired of the social media attitudes of shouting down anyone that doesn't agree w/ a majority. Just tired of it all.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Agree, there's no such thing as actual debate, and learning from each side. Just my sides right.

Unfortunately that's the way of the world nowadays, 1st thought is who can we blame.

What a stupid tweet...

Thousands of people are dying and some unnecessarily.........But lets not try to blame anybody for it even if they are culpable because there is too much blaming these days...

Get a grip...Grow up...

Yeah because trying to solve and find the solution, ending this. should take second place to finding someone to blame.
Yes no government handled it well, and there are many problems in how every government handled it at first.
But let's get around to find a vaccine, and after its gone. Put into place a system that stops future unnecessary deaths.
Then we can start throwing around the blame, and finding out why this happened in the first place.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-election-whatsapp-antisemitism-tories-yougov-poll-a9462456.html

Good luck sorting this mess out, Mr. Starmer.

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