Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

Pr4wn wrote:Why are 16 and 17 year olds old enough to pay tax but not old enough to vote?

Good point, take them out of having to pay tax.

Can't verify but saw a quote yesterday claiming that Labour party membership now higher than it was under Corbyn.

Yougov

SNP 51 +6
Con  21 -4
Lab  19  =

Con leaking to SNP not Labour.....Starmer shouldn't follow the Blair blueprint..

Times have changed....No Labour majority on these numbers..

Sturgeon owns Scotland.

SNP only lost so many votes to the Tories the last few elections because the Tories were anti-Indy and pro-Brexit (well, Westminster were anyway).

Coupled with a succession of poor leaders it’ll be a long, long time before Labour are a force in Scotland again. Which is a shame because they have some really good politicians in their ranks.

Just nonsense...Labour were only a force till the SNP usurped them from the left...Rot set in post Iraq..

Miliband is basically where Starmer is now being strung along by Blairites.. He did worse than Corbyn..Who at least won seats in 2017..

As for talented Mps...Who ??....Jess Phillips ??...That Woman makes pig crap look like Einstein.

Most of Labour's base are deserting them. They've lost Scotland. They're in decline in t'North of England, where a new generation that has no great animosity towards the Tories is coming through, first evidenced in 2019. The BAME vote is also in decline and going towards the Tories in greater numbers. Even the Muslim vote is starting to diversify towards other parties.

It's why I've said before that, barring some catastrophe befalling the Tories, Labour are at least a decade away from office. And they're even further away from ever getting 326+ seats in Parliament. They're closer to fracturing and fading away like the Liberal Party than winning a General Election.

Starmer has time, because Labour are propped up by the failed FPTP system and the ancient broadcasting regulations. Time to win the internal battle in the party, rebuild his party's reputation which was trashed by Corbyn's incompetence and nastiness, and then restore Labour as a credible alternative to the Tories. But if he loses the battle, Labour are finished.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Just nonsense...Labour were only a force till the SNP usurped them from the left...Rot set in post Iraq..

Miliband is basically where Starmer is now being strung along by Blairites.. He did worse than Corbyn..Who at least won seats in 2017..

As for talented Mps...Who ??....Jess Phillips ??...That Woman makes pig crap look like Einstein.

Sorry I assumed you were talking about Scotland, seeing as you posted a Scottish poll. But I'll humour you anyway. Scotland had been a relatively solid Labour foothold since the 60's, regularly getting 40-50 seats. After the SNP Minority government in Holyrood (with a one seat lead over Labour) gave rise to the notion of Independence, and once the country voted No in 2014 the SNP were galvanized and seen as the party of the left (because Labour supported the Union) and Labour were subsequently wiped out. Then they went from leaders like Jack McConnell and Donald Dewer to the likes of Jim Murphy and Kezia Dugdale. The country basically became split at that point between the left leaning SNP and Independence and the right wing Conservatives and the Union, the left wing Unionists became a minority which is why Labour started doing so poorly (I say poorly, they are still regularly pulling over a half a million votes). The Iraq war wasnt a very strong factor.

And I didnt say talented MP's, so dont put words in my mouth. I said talented politicians. And again Im more thinking about Scottish Labour than Labour as a whole because again, you posted a poll about Scotland.

Panelbase..

SNP.... 55
Con.....20
Lab.... 15

Labour and the Tories lose 7 seats each at Holyrood next year on these figures.

And support for independence at 54%.

Since the 2019 General Election there have now been nine indypolls. Seven have Yes ahead, two were tied and two had No ahead by 1%

CaledonianCraig wrote:And support for independence at 54%.

Since the 2019 General Election there have now been nine indypolls. Seven have Yes ahead, two were tied and two had No ahead by 1%

Hmmmm..... Something's not quite right here.

Pr4wn wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:And support for independence at 54%.

Since the 2019 General Election there have now been nine indypolls. Seven have Yes ahead, two were tied and two had No ahead by 1%

Hmmmm..... Something's not quite right here.

Sorry. Five have had Yes ahead (by 1%, 3%, 3%, 7% and 4%). Two tied. Two with No ahead (by 1% and 1%).

Will there ever be a UK (Westminster) Parliament that will agree to a second referendum?  

Can't see a Conservative Party or a Labour Party agreeing to it.  

There were no signs that a Corbyn led Labour Party would have agreed to it if that was what it would have taken for Corbyn to become PM in a Labour - SNP coalition.  

What was the Lib Dem policy on it?  But Lib Dem's are now a minor party compared to the SNP - at least in terms of Westminster seats.

Not allowing Scotland another referendum would only increase the demand and case for Independence, and when another referendum is called it would almost certainly pass.

Kanye West running for the Presidency....Must have a new CD coming out....

Wouldn't get your hopes up about Maxwell...Fact its took this long and she hasn't escaped to France suggests a plea bargain and a generous one..

Besides as Trump was a friend of Epstein nothing to stop him pardoning her on his way back to Florida if he loses as expected..

Of course someone could always help her to commit suicide against her wishes..

The Establishment are very helpful like that...But it's the least likeliest option.

Samo wrote:Not allowing Scotland another referendum would only increase the demand and case for Independence, and when another referendum is called it would almost certainly pass.

Spot on.

Westminster sticking its head in the sand won't make the question of Scottish independence go away. It will only feed fuel to the burning fire.

With Unemployment about to spiral...The High Street set to look like a scene out of 28 days later and Standard of living on the verge of diving past the Poseidon..

I imagine it will be considered in bad taste soon for the SNP to be placing too much emphasis on an Indy vote while Edinburgh burns..

Truss, do you think you could cut back a little on the hyperbole? It's a bit much...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:With Unemployment about to spiral...The High Street set to look like a scene out of 28 days later and Standard of living on the verge of diving past the Poseidon..

I imagine it will be considered in bad taste soon for the SNP to be placing too much emphasis on an Indy vote while Edinburgh burns..

But do you know what? Here we are amidst the biggest economic crash in history. The economy has collapsed because of COVID-19 and this is before we go into the financial uncertainty caused by yet signed Brexit deals. And all this at a time when unionists swear blind the rest of the UK is subsiding Scotland to billions of pounds. So why does Westminster still feel the desperate urge to not grant a referendum on independence? After all the financial burden coupled with COVID-19 and Brexit is the straw that break the camel's back.....but the answer is still no. I guess that definitely tells us one thing ....Scotland is not being subsidised at all really and is why Westminster will not grant a referendum.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:With Unemployment about to spiral...The High Street set to look like a scene out of 28 days later and Standard of living on the verge of diving past the Poseidon..

I imagine it will be considered in bad taste soon for the SNP to be placing too much emphasis on an Indy vote while Edinburgh burns..

But do you know what? Here we are amidst the biggest economic crash in history. The economy has collapsed because of COVID-19 and this is before we go into the financial uncertainty caused by yet signed Brexit deals. And all this at a time when unionists swear blind the rest of the UK is subsiding Scotland to billions of pounds. So why does Westminster still feel the desperate urge to not grant a referendum on independence? After all the financial burden coupled with COVID-19 and Brexit is the straw that break the camel's back.....but the answer is still no. I guess that definitely tells us one thing ....Scotland is not being subsidised at all really and is why Westminster will not grant a referendum.

You don't seriously want Independence as we head in to a recession as large as a Tyrannasaurus rex on steroids do you.???..Crazy 1..2...3...

You want to wait for green shoots of recovery say in ten years time or Scotland will be as empty as a Joe Biden promise...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:With Unemployment about to spiral...The High Street set to look like a scene out of 28 days later and Standard of living on the verge of diving past the Poseidon..

I imagine it will be considered in bad taste soon for the SNP to be placing too much emphasis on an Indy vote while Edinburgh burns..

But do you know what? Here we are amidst the biggest economic crash in history. The economy has collapsed because of COVID-19 and this is before we go into the financial uncertainty caused by yet signed Brexit deals. And all this at a time when unionists swear blind the rest of the UK is subsiding Scotland to billions of pounds. So why does Westminster still feel the desperate urge to not grant a referendum on independence? After all the financial burden coupled with COVID-19 and Brexit is the straw that break the camel's back.....but the answer is still no. I guess that definitely tells us one thing ....Scotland is not being subsidised at all really and is why Westminster will not grant a referendum.

You don't seriously want Independence as we head in to a recession as large as a Tyrannasaurus rex on steroids do you.???..Crazy 1..2...3...

You want to wait for green shoots of recovery say in ten years time or Scotland will be as empty as a Joe Biden promise...

I never gave a timescale.

Like you said earlier all talk of indyref's by the SNP have been put on the back burner until the COVID-19 crisis abates. But bear in mind a No Deal Brexit is looking increasingly likelt - a Brexit Scots never voted for on multiple occasions yet it is happening.

There are many independence backers urging the SNP to run with a mandate at next year's 2021 Scottish Elections of a vote for them as a vote for a compulsory independence referendum in the preceding year or two. Whether that happens or not we shall see. I have my doubts but there is little to no doubt that results in that election will see pro-independence parties (SNP and Scottish Greens plus lesser parties) amassing over 50% of the total votes compared to unionist parties the Scottish Conservatives, Scottish Labour and Lib Dems. I am losing count how many times now the SNP have out performed unionist parties in Scotland but unionists claim there is no mandate for an indyref2. How unionists minds work was summed up after the last election when a Westminster MP claimed that not every SNP voter back independence but would definitely not bring themselves to admit that every Scottish Tory, Labour or Lib Dem supporters do not support the union.

Anyways I await the media coming up with a smear campaign in the next few days on the Scottish Government. It always happens (oddly enough) after a positive poll result on Scottish Independence.

As to when another IndyRef should be well as you say Trussman66 things are in chaos just now - that is true. And it will remain that way in the union or out of it. A newly independent Scotland will be chaotic anyway for the first few years until everything beds in and trade deals etc are sealed and such-like. I am under no illusion of the toughness of the first few years in an Independent Scotland but the benefits will come in the long-term and will be worth waiting for. When would I like to see an IndyRef? Perhaps two years after the next Scottish Elections. Use those Scottish Elections as a mandate for a referendum.

Like I say though the subject of Scottish Independence won't be banished because Westminster don't want it or unionists don't want it. The genie escape the bottle post-Thatcher years and support has steadily grown since then and will continue to do so. I do not see a BJ-led Conservative government whose strings are pulled by Dominic Cummings and the possibility of a No Deal Brexit convincing Scots that they'd be better off in this union and once that government folds it will no doubt be replaced by an equally anti-independence government so you see it is an on-going cycle.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:With Unemployment about to spiral...The High Street set to look like a scene out of 28 days later and Standard of living on the verge of diving past the Poseidon..

I imagine it will be considered in bad taste soon for the SNP to be placing too much emphasis on an Indy vote while Edinburgh burns..

But do you know what? Here we are amidst the biggest economic crash in history. The economy has collapsed because of COVID-19 and this is before we go into the financial uncertainty caused by yet signed Brexit deals. And all this at a time when unionists swear blind the rest of the UK is subsiding Scotland to billions of pounds. So why does Westminster still feel the desperate urge to not grant a referendum on independence? After all the financial burden coupled with COVID-19 and Brexit is the straw that break the camel's back.....but the answer is still no. I guess that definitely tells us one thing ....Scotland is not being subsidised at all really and is why Westminster will not grant a referendum.

You don't seriously want Independence as we head in to a recession as large as a Tyrannasaurus rex on steroids do you.???..Crazy 1..2...3...

You want to wait for green shoots of recovery say in ten years time or Scotland will be as empty as a Joe Biden promise...

The recession hits, the pound tanks below the Euro, Sturgeon offers a referendum with an independent Scotland fast-tracked back into the EU and taking the Euro, sells that by telling everyone that the pound in their pocket will automatically be worth more. Its a win/win for her.

I think the EU will be too busy sorting out there own economic mess to consider accepting an independent Scotland into the fray, you've sold the hit on the UK without considering the hit everywhere.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I am under no illusion of the toughness of the first few years in an Independent Scotland but the benefits will come in the long-term

Presuming this refers to a Scotland free of Westminster but inside the EU, what are these long-term benefits?

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:I am under no illusion of the toughness of the first few years in an Independent Scotland but the benefits will come in the long-term

Presuming this refers to a Scotland free of Westminster but inside the EU, what are these long-term benefits?

No. Obviously, in an immediate post-independent Scotland will not be an EU member. It would need to apply and that process takes a time but if access is gained then its the sealing of trade deals, freedom of travel, freedom of travel for skilled workers (deemed essential in this day and age in the NHS) and such-like. And lets not kid ourselves here the rest of the UK will be just as keen to get deals done with us on the matter of Scottish Beef and other products such as Whisky, Gin, textiles, wind power and other renewable energy sources which Scotland is prominent in.

The companies themselves might decide that they are better off moving their operations to England.

Soul Requiem wrote:The companies themselves might decide that they are better off moving their operations to England.

Well should that matter? After all Brexit is happening and many companies threaten to withdraw offices from the UK.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:The companies themselves might decide that they are better off moving their operations to England.

Well should that matter? After all Brexit is happening and many companies threaten to withdraw offices from the UK.

You don't think it's a problem for companies to potentially move their base of operations despite clinging to the hope that said companies are a bargaining chip.

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:The companies themselves might decide that they are better off moving their operations to England.

Well should that matter? After all Brexit is happening and many companies threaten to withdraw offices from the UK.

You don't think it's a problem for companies to potentially move their base of operations despite clinging to the hope that said companies are a bargaining chip.

Companies will use clout to make a political point depending on who/what they support. It is not made on a business-wise decision and should not be seen as a reason not to proceed with independence because of businesses blackmailing them into what they want.

Like I said Brexit is going ahead but Airbus, Arriva, Barclays Bank, British Steel, Credit Suisse, Dyson, Ford, Goldman Sachs, Honda, HSBC, Jajuar Land Rover, Lloyds, Michelin, Panasonic, P and O, Philips, Rolls Royce, Sony, Toyota and Unilever amongst others either moving out of the UK or cutting jobs as a result of it. It is not stopping the UK ploughing on with their Brexit so why should Scotland be held to ransom?

CaledonianCraig wrote:



Anyways I await the media coming up with a smear campaign in the next few days on the Scottish Government. It always happens (oddly enough) after a positive poll result on Scottish Independence.

Like I said..... right on cue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53310734

Reporting on actual quotes from Nicola Sturgeon in response to the actions of a very small bunch of morons is not a smear campaign, Craig. I know you want it to be, but it isn't.

As for the remainder of the story, the BBC are also just reporting what's happened in the follow up to Sturgeon not ruling out quarantining for people travelling from England (a sensible posiiton for her to take). Hell, they even report Mundell's unfortunate response which confirms, if confirmation was needed, that he's an idiot.

superflyweight wrote:Reporting on actual quotes from Nicola Sturgeon in response to the actions of a very small bunch of morons is not a smear campaign, Craig.  I know you want it to be, but it isn't.  

As for the remainder of the story, the BBC are also just reporting what's happened in the follow up to Sturgeon not ruling out quarantining for people travelling from England (a sensible posiiton for her to take).  Hell, they even report Mundell's unfortunate response which confirms, if confirmation was needed, that he's an idiot.

Actually, look deeper.

Exactly the same thing happened in Cornwall with Cornish protesters who held up even more offensive signs for people venturing down to Cornwall on motorway flyovers. Criticism there was not directed at any political party but here it is vastly different. The people on the border had no signage or flags denoting them as SNP voters. Evidently independence supporters - yes. But how that makes Sturgeon culpable and liable to comments like the one reported from Oliver Mundell (Scottish Tory MSP) is beyond me. His comment was not even worth the time of day but the report drops it in without disparaging it in any way and so many will give it some credence. Sturgeon stated (quite sensibly) that people travelling from areas with higher infection rates could maybe should face quarantine and that was not only English people.

Anyway there are obvious trends on what I say. At the end of May there were positive results in independence polls and SNP performance in Scottish Election poll and a day or two after they were released the media came out with the Nike Conference stuff (three months after it had happened). The month before that - also following positive independence poll results we had the health advisor to Sturgeon forcing her into resignation for doing certainly no less than Dominic Cummings but it was Tories showing that double standard again apoplectic with rage but its fine for Cummings to do as he wishes.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

superflyweight wrote:Reporting on actual quotes from Nicola Sturgeon in response to the actions of a very small bunch of morons is not a smear campaign, Craig.  I know you want it to be, but it isn't.  

As for the remainder of the story, the BBC are also just reporting what's happened in the follow up to Sturgeon not ruling out quarantining for people travelling from England (a sensible posiiton for her to take).  Hell, they even report Mundell's unfortunate response which confirms, if confirmation was needed, that he's an idiot.

Actually, look deeper.

Exactly the same thing happened in Cornwall with Cornish protesters who held up even more offensive signs for people venturing down to Cornwall on motorway flyovers. Criticism there was not directed at any political party but here it is vastly different. The people on the border had no signage or flags denoting them as SNP voters. Evidently independence supporters - yes. But how that makes Sturgeon culpable and liable to comments like the one reported from Oliver Mundell (Scottish Tory MSP) is beyond me. His comment was not even worth the time of day but the report drops it in without disparaging it in any way and so many will give it some credence. Sturgeon stated (quite sensibly) that people travelling from areas with higher infection rates could maybe should face quarantine and that was not only English people.

Anyway there are obvious trends on what I say. At the end of May there were positive results in independence polls and SNP performance in Scottish Election poll and a day or two after they were released the media came out with the Nike Conference stuff (three months after it had happened). The month before that - also following positive independence poll results we had the health advisor to Sturgeon forcing her into resignation for doing certainly no less than Dominic Cummings but it was Tories showing that double standard again apoplectic with rage but its fine for Cummings to do as he wishes.

That's the remit of the BBC, to report the news but not give an opinion either way, you seem to be getting upset about nothing again. Would you rather news wasn't reported at all?

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

superflyweight wrote:Reporting on actual quotes from Nicola Sturgeon in response to the actions of a very small bunch of morons is not a smear campaign, Craig.  I know you want it to be, but it isn't.  

As for the remainder of the story, the BBC are also just reporting what's happened in the follow up to Sturgeon not ruling out quarantining for people travelling from England (a sensible posiiton for her to take).  Hell, they even report Mundell's unfortunate response which confirms, if confirmation was needed, that he's an idiot.

Actually, look deeper.

Exactly the same thing happened in Cornwall with Cornish protesters who held up even more offensive signs for people venturing down to Cornwall on motorway flyovers. Criticism there was not directed at any political party but here it is vastly different. The people on the border had no signage or flags denoting them as SNP voters. Evidently independence supporters - yes. But how that makes Sturgeon culpable and liable to comments like the one reported from Oliver Mundell (Scottish Tory MSP) is beyond me. His comment was not even worth the time of day but the report drops it in without disparaging it in any way and so many will give it some credence. Sturgeon stated (quite sensibly) that people travelling from areas with higher infection rates could maybe should face quarantine and that was not only English people.

Anyway there are obvious trends on what I say. At the end of May there were positive results in independence polls and SNP performance in Scottish Election poll and a day or two after they were released the media came out with the Nike Conference stuff (three months after it had happened). The month before that - also following positive independence poll results we had the health advisor to Sturgeon forcing her into resignation for doing certainly no less than Dominic Cummings but it was Tories showing that double standard again apoplectic with rage but its fine for Cummings to do as he wishes.

That's the remit of the BBC, to report the news but not give an opinion either way, you seem to be getting upset about nothing again. Would you rather news wasn't reported at all?

I don't understand what the BBC is supposed to have done wrong in Craig's mind?

P.S. the press didn't force the chief medical adviser to resign - her own behaviour led to that.  The press were even more vocal in calling for Cummings to resign/be sacked but Johnson has f*ck all moral compass and has refused.

I'm guessing Fly that if we're in agreement then there's not an issue here, the only criticism I can think of is that they didn't sign off the article with FREEDOM and a link to Braveheart.

Yep - there's bigger hills to die on.

superflyweight wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

superflyweight wrote:Reporting on actual quotes from Nicola Sturgeon in response to the actions of a very small bunch of morons is not a smear campaign, Craig.  I know you want it to be, but it isn't.  

As for the remainder of the story, the BBC are also just reporting what's happened in the follow up to Sturgeon not ruling out quarantining for people travelling from England (a sensible posiiton for her to take).  Hell, they even report Mundell's unfortunate response which confirms, if confirmation was needed, that he's an idiot.

Actually, look deeper.

Exactly the same thing happened in Cornwall with Cornish protesters who held up even more offensive signs for people venturing down to Cornwall on motorway flyovers. Criticism there was not directed at any political party but here it is vastly different. The people on the border had no signage or flags denoting them as SNP voters. Evidently independence supporters - yes. But how that makes Sturgeon culpable and liable to comments like the one reported from Oliver Mundell (Scottish Tory MSP) is beyond me. His comment was not even worth the time of day but the report drops it in without disparaging it in any way and so many will give it some credence. Sturgeon stated (quite sensibly) that people travelling from areas with higher infection rates could maybe should face quarantine and that was not only English people.

Anyway there are obvious trends on what I say. At the end of May there were positive results in independence polls and SNP performance in Scottish Election poll and a day or two after they were released the media came out with the Nike Conference stuff (three months after it had happened). The month before that - also following positive independence poll results we had the health advisor to Sturgeon forcing her into resignation for doing certainly no less than Dominic Cummings but it was Tories showing that double standard again apoplectic with rage but its fine for Cummings to do as he wishes.

That's the remit of the BBC, to report the news but not give an opinion either way, you seem to be getting upset about nothing again. Would you rather news wasn't reported at all?

I don't understand what the BBC is supposed to have done wrong in Craig's mind?  

It is quite clear when patterns are there.

If No had polled say 55 or 60% days earlier then this report would not even of seen the light of day. It is deemed newsworthy only because support for independence is clearly on the rise (as stated by Professor John Curtice) and people are beginning to sweat. This cannot be allowed to go on. The case for the union needs propping up etc etc.What better than something that throws mud at the Yes side of things even if it would (in other circumstances) not merit news.

The Nike Conference is another example. Gee whizz it was Bojo himself who made even more catastrophic mistakes by allowing major sports events like Cheltenham Festival go on as Corona kicked in and Spanish fans travel to Liverpool for a European tie etc etc etc. That all caused by Westminster's dire handing of COVID-19 from day one. A Westminster-rule that independence supporters want rid of.

What absolute nonsense as per usual. Please don't report any news BBC in case Craig considers it a conspiracy against the SNP, especially if it's to highlight a shameful cover up of an earlier than previously known outbreak. The whataboutery is particularly baffling considering the hammering the UKG have received from all sides of the media over their handling of the crisis. Please don't mention the Nike conference because Cheltenham was worse.

Soul Requiem wrote:What absolute nonsense as per usual. Please don't report any news BBC in case Craig considers it a conspiracy against the SNP, especially if it's to highlight a shameful cover up of an earlier than previously known outbreak. The whataboutery is particularly baffling considering the hammering the UKG have received from all sides of the media over their handling of the crisis. Please don't mention the Nike conference because Cheltenham was worse.

Well therein you list a key reason why independence is desired by so many now. Woeful governing from Westminster in times of crisis.

Is this the part where I point out that the response in Scotland has also been woeful?

Soul Requiem wrote:Is this the part where I point out that the response in Scotland has also been woeful?

Point it out if you wish but before you do look at the poll ratings on how certain leaders have handled COVID-19. Sturgeon at 60% . Johnson at -39%.

Also point out that the infection rate in Scotland is far, far lower than it is in English, hence this row happening in the first place.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Is this the part where I point out that the response in Scotland has also been woeful?

Point it out if you wish but before you do look at the poll ratings on how certain leaders have handled COVID-19. Sturgeon at 60% . Johnson at -39%.

That must be a real comfort to all those who have died in both countries.

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Is this the part where I point out that the response in Scotland has also been woeful?

Point it out if you wish but before you do look at the poll ratings on how certain leaders have handled COVID-19. Sturgeon at 60% . Johnson at -39%.

That must be a real comfort to all those who have died in both countries.

Laughable whataboutery, even by your standards.

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Is this the part where I point out that the response in Scotland has also been woeful?

Point it out if you wish but before you do look at the poll ratings on how certain leaders have handled COVID-19. Sturgeon at 60% . Johnson at -39%.

That must be a real comfort to all those who have died in both countries.

Laughable whataboutery, even by your standards.

Do get a grip for once in your life.

It's not whataboutery to point out that Scotland have the third worst death rate in Europe behind England and Belgium, it's not exactly a glowing endorsement to say they've done better than them.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Is this the part where I point out that the response in Scotland has also been woeful?

Point it out if you wish but before you do look at the poll ratings on how certain leaders have handled COVID-19. Sturgeon at 60% . Johnson at -39%.

That must be a real comfort to all those who have died in both countries.

Laughable whataboutery, even by your standards.

Do get a grip for once in your life.

It's not whataboutery to point out that Scotland have the third worst death rate in Europe behind England and Belgium, it's not exactly a glowing endorsement to say they've done better than them.

You really are a Tory - master of figure manipulations to suit agenda.

Quick question, Craig.

Can you see there might have been a benefit in being part of a wider economic union during the pandemic?

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Is this the part where I point out that the response in Scotland has also been woeful?

Point it out if you wish but before you do look at the poll ratings on how certain leaders have handled COVID-19. Sturgeon at 60% . Johnson at -39%.

That must be a real comfort to all those who have died in both countries.

Laughable whataboutery, even by your standards.

Do get a grip for once in your life.

It's not whataboutery to point out that Scotland have the third worst death rate in Europe behind England and Belgium, it's not exactly a glowing endorsement to say they've done better than them.

You really are a Tory - master of figure manipulations to suit agenda.

If you could point out where i've manipulated the figures that would be great?

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Is this the part where I point out that the response in Scotland has also been woeful?

Point it out if you wish but before you do look at the poll ratings on how certain leaders have handled COVID-19. Sturgeon at 60% . Johnson at -39%.

That must be a real comfort to all those who have died in both countries.

Laughable whataboutery, even by your standards.

Do get a grip for once in your life.

It's not whataboutery to point out that Scotland have the third worst death rate in Europe behind England and Belgium, it's not exactly a glowing endorsement to say they've done better than them.

You really are a Tory - master of figure manipulations to suit agenda.

If you could point out where i've manipulated the figures that would be great?

That, despite the figures you've quoted, Scotland are widely considered to have been capable of completely eliminating Covid from their country altogether, were in not for their neighbours.

It's all available here for you to read in that famously left-wing publication New Scientist: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2247462-scotland-could-eliminate-the-coronavirus-if-it-werent-for-england/

Soul Requiem wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Is this the part where I point out that the response in Scotland has also been woeful?

Point it out if you wish but before you do look at the poll ratings on how certain leaders have handled COVID-19. Sturgeon at 60% . Johnson at -39%.

That must be a real comfort to all those who have died in both countries.

Laughable whataboutery, even by your standards.

Do get a grip for once in your life.

It's not whataboutery to point out that Scotland have the third worst death rate in Europe behind England and Belgium, it's not exactly a glowing endorsement to say they've done better than them.

Yes it is.

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Is this the part where I point out that the response in Scotland has also been woeful?

Point it out if you wish but before you do look at the poll ratings on how certain leaders have handled COVID-19. Sturgeon at 60% . Johnson at -39%.

That must be a real comfort to all those who have died in both countries.

Laughable whataboutery, even by your standards.

Do get a grip for once in your life.

It's not whataboutery to point out that Scotland have the third worst death rate in Europe behind England and Belgium, it's not exactly a glowing endorsement to say they've done better than them.

You really are a Tory - master of figure manipulations to suit agenda.

If you could point out where i've manipulated the figures that would be great?

Deaths in Europe are topped by:-

England
Italy
Spain
France
Belgium
Germany
Netherlands
Sweden
Scotland

Scotland certainly holds the lowest refresh rate too compared to the rest of the UK. If you wish to laud Boris for his disasterous handling of COVID-19 that is up to you and I fully expect it of you. Polls show how much better she has handled it as seen last weekend and in other polls. It may stick right in your craw but there you go.

What was laughable was listening to Westminster beef or greet would be a more apt Scottish word here about Scotland proposing tougher border measures etc and yet a city within England did so with no complaints in the form of Leicester. Its those Tory double standards again. And woe and behold Boris opens pubs up and already COVID-19 has been detected in three of them forcing them to close.

I must greatly credit Boris though. He must have a blue vest with a big red S on it. I mean he supposedly caught COVID-19 and was in and out of intensive care in a matter of days. Remarkable for one so overweight when I have watched fireman on the news saying they were in intensive care for six weeks and lost two stone in weight fighting the disease. The fact the staff had to sign contracts of secrecy on Johnson's hospital ward says it all really. If he had COVID-19 then i am Winston Churchill's lovechild.