Political round up.............

by Duty281 Fri 20 Dec 2019, 10:33 am

First topic message reminder :

Pr4wn wrote:Why are 16 and 17 year olds old enough to pay tax but not old enough to vote?

Good point, take them out of having to pay tax.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 28 Jul 2020, 9:19 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Despite having millions less BAME males in the population...More BAME men have been fined for breaking lockdown than White men..

Going to be a very turbulent few years ahead...For all sorts of reasons..

Could you elaborate, please?

Are you saying more are being fined simply for being of BAME appearance? Or are you suggesting deeper reasons than that?

by Soul Requiem Tue 28 Jul 2020, 9:32 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Despite having millions less BAME males in the population...More BAME men have been fined PROPORTIONALLY for breaking lockdown than White men..

Going to be a very turbulent few years ahead...For all sorts of reasons..

by Duty281 Tue 28 Jul 2020, 9:45 am

Yes, proportionally, not raw numbers...Truss has, unsurprisingly, misread the data.

"The NPCC found 17,039 fines were issued between 27 March and 25 May, which represents only three fines per 10,000 people. But the rate for black people was 4.6 per 10,000 and for Asian people it was 4.7."

The slight caveat to these statistics is that in half the police forces of England + Wales, only tiny numbers of fines were issued to BAME people, so it's difficult to extrapolate accurately.

"But the analysis found those areas typically have relatively small BAME populations with a small number of fines issued to BAME people leading to high disparity rates.

Cumbria Police, for example, issued just three fines to black people, equating to 30 per 10,000 compared with eight per 10,000 white people."

There's also a great age disparity.

"The report found the number of fines issued across England and Wales was relatively low with a rate of three per 10,000 people, with 70% of all penalties issued to men aged under 45, who make up 22% of the population.

Young men aged between 18 and 34, who make up 14% of the population, accounted for 57% of those fines – a rate four times higher than if penalties were issued proportionately across all age groups."

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/young-bame-men-twice-as-likely-to-be-fined-for-breaching-lockdown-rules/27/07/

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 28 Jul 2020, 11:26 am

'LIberty investigates'..Found 54% more likely to be fined according to current statistics..

I know you like Farage but I always quote my sources..

I could also find London Stop and search statistics but I needn't bother....

by Duty281 Tue 28 Jul 2020, 11:40 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I always quote my sources.

Evidently, you don't.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 28 Jul 2020, 12:02 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I always quote my sources.

Evidently, you don't.

I'm not playing word games with the far right..

I quoted my source..

In other news the latest polling data shows that Johnson's popularity in marginals is much greater than the overall trend and vice versa with Starmer..

Expect Labour to focus on angry White males that hate Johnny foreigner...

As 90% of the marginals are in Bury and Constituencies like it.. Ethnic minorities already vote Labour in these places.

by Duty281 Tue 28 Jul 2020, 12:59 pm

Your original claim was "More BAME men have been fined for breaking lockdown than White men" - this is categorically false and unsourced. Kindly stick to facts in future. thumbsup

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 28 Jul 2020, 3:17 pm

Yougov...

Who do you trust more to run the Economy ??

Con 40 +3
Lab..17 -2

Best Chancellor poll...

Sunak 44%
Dodds 6%

Yes Annaliese Dodds has been Labour Shadow Chancellor for 4 months....For anyone wondering if the post is taken.

by CaledonianCraig Thu 30 Jul 2020, 6:41 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53601518

Jackson Carlaw does not fancy being party leader for next year's embarrassment at the Scottish Elections. Jumping ship after just six months as leader. So much for his claim he'd lead the Scottish Conservatives to victory.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 04 Aug 2020, 12:44 pm

I see that Iain Duncan Smith is unhappy with what's in the Withdrawal Agreement, despite having voted for it, and having voted against giving more time to the reading of it.

by lostinwales Tue 04 Aug 2020, 3:08 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I see that Iain Duncan Smith is unhappy with what's in the Withdrawal Agreement, despite having voted for it, and having voted against giving more time to the reading of it.

Probably had issues reading it in the first place, especially if it doesn't have enough pictures.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 13 Aug 2020, 1:40 pm

This A Level fiasco is insane

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 13 Aug 2020, 2:19 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:This A Level fiasco is insane

You're not kidding. Tough situation though and I don't see anyone who's criticising suggesting what should be done instead.

They should have just normalised/cranked all predicted results onto a 10-year average distribution and had done w/ it. Predictions are unadulterated scheisse anyway; routinely the case that maybe a max. 25% actually achieve their UCAS predictions. If they aren't allowed to be disadvantaged, and inflated grades get many in where perhaps they shouldn't, I wonder how people think they'll cope? Should be (even more) fun on the mental health front over the next few years...

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 13 Aug 2020, 2:48 pm

The private schools getting a rise in A and above more than double that of any state school is concerning when 40% of students across the country have had downgraded results.

It’s excellent because it has started with a clear fear of power in certain institutions and also clearly not trusting teachers from the outset.

A Level results themselves don’t matter, but prejudicial systems are clearly a problem. Ideally, universities change their tack on 2020 results and entry requirements, which I think they are probably going to have to do anyway from a financial standpoint as you’d expect attendance numbers to drop.

Considering the situation, teacher assessment combined with previous results and assessments should have been followed. I’ve done teacher assessments on things, there’s really not much enthusiasm for lying about it. The inclination is rare but the way it’s portrayed is like there’d be loads of ludicrous results handed out.

Funnily enough, I think we can all guess where we think there’s more likely to be overinflated grading, and it’s not in state schools.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 13 Aug 2020, 2:51 pm

Apparently £111 to appeal (payable if you fail)

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 13 Aug 2020, 2:51 pm

by lostinwales Thu 13 Aug 2020, 4:25 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Where will it end?

I saw some mention of France using the opportunity to expand Uni entrance numbers next term and therefore avoiding downgrading. Of course it would be a very difficult thing to do here but can't help thinking there would be some value in either letting the next level of education sort the wheat from the chaff or at least making it easy for current students to stay in college for a few months and sit exams when things are clearer.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 14 Aug 2020, 9:43 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The private schools getting a rise in A and above more than double that of any state school is concerning when 40% of students across the country have had downgraded results.

It’s excellent because it has started with a clear fear of power in certain institutions and also clearly not trusting teachers from the outset.

A Level results themselves don’t matter, but prejudicial systems are clearly a problem. Ideally, universities change their tack on 2020 results and entry requirements, which I think they are probably going to have to do anyway from a financial standpoint as you’d expect attendance numbers to drop.

Considering the situation, teacher assessment combined with previous results and assessments should have been followed. I’ve done teacher assessments on things, there’s really not much enthusiasm for lying about it. The inclination is rare but the way it’s portrayed is like there’d be loads of ludicrous results handed out.

Funnily enough, I think we can all guess where we think there’s more likely to be overinflated grading, and it’s not in state schools.

Points taken. Re. teacher assessments - it's a fact that (at least in STEM subjects for University entrance), barely 25% make their predicted grades as given on their UCAS entries. They're getting inflated predictions and I suspect that will have happened w/ the A-levels here too. If you're going to private school, mater and pater aren't going to appreciate it if you're not predicted to be stellar, so not surprised at that bit of data.
Universities are making decisions on entry now (from Monday actually) based on these shaky A-levels etc. They won't be taking anyone whose appeal is upheld and who then gets grades that would have got them into their first choice, Williamson saying they must or no. There are going to be a lot of deferrals to next year I think.

This year should have been scrapped; both in schools and at Universities. No-one is willing to think of that as a reasonable decision and we're too far down the line to reasonably do it now.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 14 Aug 2020, 9:44 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Apparently £111 to appeal (payable if you fail)

There has to be a charge - if not, what has one got to lose by appealing? Everyone would do it and the personnel requirements of dealing with it will be humongous. Even so, it's going to be a nightmare.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 14 Aug 2020, 9:45 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

You couldn't make this up. Just out of interest, what's this rank order thing used for? Certainly not for University entrance...

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 14 Aug 2020, 2:09 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Apparently £111 to appeal (payable if you fail)
There has to be a charge - if not, what has one got to lose by appealing? Everyone would do it and the personnel requirements of dealing with it will be humongous. Even so, it's going to be a nightmare.

That’s a bit disgusting though. If you have to have a fee, make it at least nominal. And especially this year. Maybe £50 normally, maybe, though I’d say £20, but try and not be silly billy this year.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 14 Aug 2020, 2:14 pm

I get the point on teacher assessments but I would suggest you trust them this year as teacher assessments are often of ability rather than assessment success. You could, for one year, and with more weight of importance on their assessment, trust that teachers would acknowledge where they are grades wise through understanding, not test achievement.

They could have used lockdown to set research projects. Hell, they could do that now and save thousands of kids redoing a year of study. It’s one of those hindsight things, as adults you look back and realise when you study and how long it takes doesn’t matter so much, but it isn’t true at the time (nor in all cases).

You’re better off giving out overzealous grading than damaging ones like they have. I don’t work in Higher Education, but I can’t imagine that does significant damage

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 14 Aug 2020, 2:35 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Apparently £111 to appeal (payable if you fail)
There has to be a charge - if not, what has one got to lose by appealing? Everyone would do it and the personnel requirements of dealing with it will be humongous. Even so, it's going to be a nightmare.

That’s a bit disgusting though. If you have to have a fee, make it at least nominal. And especially this year. Maybe £50 normally, maybe, though I’d say £20, but try and not be silly billy this year.

Yep; fair point.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 14 Aug 2020, 2:53 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I get the point on teacher assessments but I would suggest you trust them this year as teacher assessments are often of ability rather than assessment success. You could, for one year, and with more weight of importance on their assessment, trust that teachers would acknowledge where they are grades wise through understanding, not test achievement.

They could have used lockdown to set research projects. Hell, they could do that now and save thousands of kids redoing a year of study. It’s one of those hindsight things, as adults you look back and realise when you study and how long it takes doesn’t matter so much, but it isn’t true at the time (nor in all cases).

You’re better off giving out overzealous grading than damaging ones like they have. I don’t work in Higher Education, but I can’t imagine that does significant damage

Reasonable points. FWIW, I do work in HE and, for sins in a former life, am an admissions tutor to boot.
One major concern I have is that universities are not going to drop standards - if over-inflated grades allow those in who simply won't cope (and that already happens; the not coping I mean, and it's an increasingly big problem), how does that help them? Either now, or for the future? We already have too many going to university and there is still only a Degree programme to enter - do we really think that everyone going in is capable? ~50% of school leavers?? Really? I've thought for a while that universities need to offer lower qualifications, but at the moment, the only way to get them is as a default outcome if someone fails at end of year 1 or 2. Basically, I think for a whole load of reasons, education in the UK is FUBAR and has been for a long time - from primary school, right through to university.

I'm not sure how one can accurately assess ability - that surely has to be one of the most subjective things ever. We see a pretty good correlation between Degree outcomes and attained A-level grades etc on entry.

I agree that they could have set suitable coursework or open-book assessments online during lockdown, or reduce total assessment load and re-weight remainder - that's what most universities did. Presumably didn't happen because various assessment bodies couldn't get it done in time?

It's not that I don't have any sympathy; I do. Again, I think the entire year should have been written off, but people would probably have whined about that as well. Not sure there are any low-hanging fruit here.

by **superflyweight** Fri 14 Aug 2020, 3:23 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Apparently £111 to appeal (payable if you fail)
There has to be a charge - if not, what has one got to lose by appealing? Everyone would do it and the personnel requirements of dealing with it will be humongous. Even so, it's going to be a nightmare.

That’s a bit disgusting though. If you have to have a fee, make it at least nominal. And especially this year. Maybe £50 normally, maybe, though I’d say £20, but try and not be silly billy this year.

It's £39 in Scotland and it was waived this year.

That aside, the SNP and SQA made a similar shambles of the grading process up here, but at least they made a u-turn following outside pressure.

by lostinwales Sun 16 Aug 2020, 12:11 am

I have changed my mind from thinking the algorithm made some sense and it was just the appeals that were messed up to thinking the whole thing stinks. The fooking teachers spent a long time assessing their pupils and might just know a thing or two about education. But apparently not.

So many cockups. They get worse and worse.

by Samo Sun 16 Aug 2020, 12:40 pm

superflyweight wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Apparently £111 to appeal (payable if you fail)
There has to be a charge - if not, what has one got to lose by appealing? Everyone would do it and the personnel requirements of dealing with it will be humongous. Even so, it's going to be a nightmare.

That’s a bit disgusting though. If you have to have a fee, make it at least nominal. And especially this year. Maybe £50 normally, maybe, though I’d say £20, but try and not be silly billy this year.

It's £39 in Scotland and it was waived this year.

That aside, the SNP and SQA made a similar shambles of the grading process up here, but at least they made a u-turn following outside pressure.

And Nicola Sturgeon was pretty quick to not only admit they made a mistake but also explain what they got wrong and what they’re going to do to try and fix it. Credit where its due its rare to see a politician in a real position of power admit a man sausage-up and apologise for it.

by **superflyweight** Mon 17 Aug 2020, 9:06 am

Samo wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Apparently £111 to appeal (payable if you fail)
There has to be a charge - if not, what has one got to lose by appealing? Everyone would do it and the personnel requirements of dealing with it will be humongous. Even so, it's going to be a nightmare.

That’s a bit disgusting though. If you have to have a fee, make it at least nominal. And especially this year. Maybe £50 normally, maybe, though I’d say £20, but try and not be silly billy this year.

It's £39 in Scotland and it was waived this year.

That aside, the SNP and SQA made a similar shambles of the grading process up here, but at least they made a u-turn following outside pressure.

And Nicola Sturgeon was pretty quick to not only admit they made a mistake but also explain what they got wrong and what they’re going to do to try and fix it. Credit where its due its rare to see a politician in a real position of power admit a man sausage-up and apologise for it.

Party politics aside, she's actually a very good First Minister - the best since Dewar. Swinney continues to be a liability for her.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 17 Aug 2020, 10:27 am

It's a good job for Labour that Wales is pretty much an afterthought when it comes to UK news and politics. When they criticise the UK government for the A-Levels debacle, they're on shaky ground given that they've overseen a similar c0ck-up in Wales (okay, the Education secretary is Lib Dem). But no one seems to be calling them out on it, at least not outside Wales.

by lostinwales Mon 17 Aug 2020, 11:02 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I get the point on teacher assessments but I would suggest you trust them this year as teacher assessments are often of ability rather than assessment success. You could, for one year, and with more weight of importance on their assessment, trust that teachers would acknowledge where they are grades wise through understanding, not test achievement.

They could have used lockdown to set research projects. Hell, they could do that now and save thousands of kids redoing a year of study. It’s one of those hindsight things, as adults you look back and realise when you study and how long it takes doesn’t matter so much, but it isn’t true at the time (nor in all cases).

You’re better off giving out overzealous grading than damaging ones like they have. I don’t work in Higher Education, but I can’t imagine that does significant damage
Reasonable points. FWIW, I do work in HE and, for sins in a former life, am an admissions tutor to boot.
One major concern I have is that universities are not going to drop standards - if over-inflated grades allow those in who simply won't cope (and that already happens; the not coping I mean, and it's an increasingly big problem), how does that help them? Either now, or for the future? We already have too many going to university and there is still only a Degree programme to enter - do we really think that everyone going in is capable? ~50% of school leavers?? Really? I've thought for a while that universities need to offer lower qualifications, but at the moment, the only way to get them is as a default outcome if someone fails at end of year 1 or 2. Basically, I think for a whole load of reasons, education in the UK is FUBAR and has been for a long time - from primary school, right through to university.

I'm not sure how one can accurately assess ability - that surely has to be one of the most subjective things ever. We see a pretty good correlation between Degree outcomes and attained A-level grades etc on entry.

I agree that they could have set suitable coursework or open-book assessments online during lockdown, or reduce total assessment load and re-weight remainder - that's what most universities did. Presumably didn't happen because various assessment bodies couldn't get it done in time?

It's not that I don't have any sympathy; I do. Again, I think the entire year should have been written off, but people would probably have whined about that as well. Not sure there are any low-hanging fruit here.

There is a long debate to be had about this somewhere. I truly believe that the primary reason for massively expanding university education was political. It is a great way to reduce unemployment in the 18-21 age bracket (and get parents and family to pay for it). On top of that universities are becoming much more business like - but in the wrong way with the emphasis on balance sheets over results. I know both are important but its easy to squeeze quality to drop costs. Things seem considerably worse in the FE system

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 17 Aug 2020, 12:24 pm

lostinwales wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I get the point on teacher assessments but I would suggest you trust them this year as teacher assessments are often of ability rather than assessment success. You could, for one year, and with more weight of importance on their assessment, trust that teachers would acknowledge where they are grades wise through understanding, not test achievement.

They could have used lockdown to set research projects. Hell, they could do that now and save thousands of kids redoing a year of study. It’s one of those hindsight things, as adults you look back and realise when you study and how long it takes doesn’t matter so much, but it isn’t true at the time (nor in all cases).

You’re better off giving out overzealous grading than damaging ones like they have. I don’t work in Higher Education, but I can’t imagine that does significant damage
Reasonable points. FWIW, I do work in HE and, for sins in a former life, am an admissions tutor to boot.
One major concern I have is that universities are not going to drop standards - if over-inflated grades allow those in who simply won't cope (and that already happens; the not coping I mean, and it's an increasingly big problem), how does that help them? Either now, or for the future? We already have too many going to university and there is still only a Degree programme to enter - do we really think that everyone going in is capable? ~50% of school leavers?? Really? I've thought for a while that universities need to offer lower qualifications, but at the moment, the only way to get them is as a default outcome if someone fails at end of year 1 or 2. Basically, I think for a whole load of reasons, education in the UK is FUBAR and has been for a long time - from primary school, right through to university.

I'm not sure how one can accurately assess ability - that surely has to be one of the most subjective things ever. We see a pretty good correlation between Degree outcomes and attained A-level grades etc on entry.

I agree that they could have set suitable coursework or open-book assessments online during lockdown, or reduce total assessment load and re-weight remainder - that's what most universities did. Presumably didn't happen because various assessment bodies couldn't get it done in time?

It's not that I don't have any sympathy; I do. Again, I think the entire year should have been written off, but people would probably have whined about that as well. Not sure there are any low-hanging fruit here.

There is a long debate to be had about this somewhere. I truly believe that the primary reason for massively expanding university education was political. It is a great way to reduce unemployment in the 18-21 age bracket (and get parents and family to pay for it). On top of that universities are becoming much more business like - but in the wrong way with the emphasis on balance sheets over results. I know both are important but its easy to squeeze quality to drop costs. Things seem considerably worse in the FE system

They have to be - previous UK Governments ripped ~80% (or more) out of the central funding grant and basically said "FU! Get your own money!". Thus, we now have fees etc. By going up to ~50% school leaver entry to universities, they've also removed the possibility of any general taxation funding the system (as used ot be the case) w/ some sort of call to 'value added' for the wider country. Could still be made, and justified, but no-one's buying, especially now that UK population's first thought these days is "What's in it for me?". Can you imagine proposing a National Health service to the nation as it is now, if there wasn't already one in existence?

Not enough bums on seats = redundancies.

This country lost the plot some years ago.

by MrInvisible Mon 17 Aug 2020, 5:48 pm

So the government are forced into yet another humiliating u-turn, and back-track on the A Level results algorithm. Given how exactly the same furore had played out in Scotland 2 weeks previously (with John Swinney feeling the heat) it beggars belief that the UK government couldn't have foreseen this one and learnt from what had happened in Scotland.

In a cabinet full of non-entities, in place solely for mis-placed loyalty on Brexit, Williamson is doing his utmost to challenge the likes of Pritty Vacant and Failing Grayling as most incompetent government minister - from the bungled schools reopening to the school meals voucher fiasco to this.

Can anyone recall a government with such a large majority performing so many u-turns and having such a lack of talent within its ranks?

by lostinwales Tue 18 Aug 2020, 4:54 pm

MrInvisible wrote:So the government are forced into yet another humiliating u-turn, and back-track on the A Level results algorithm. Given how exactly the same furore had played out in Scotland 2 weeks previously (with John Swinney feeling the heat) it beggars belief that the UK government couldn't have foreseen this one and learnt from what had happened in Scotland.

In a cabinet full of non-entities, in place solely for mis-placed loyalty on Brexit, Williamson is doing his utmost to challenge the likes of Pritty Vacant and Failing Grayling as most incompetent government minister - from the bungled schools reopening to the school meals voucher fiasco to this.

Can anyone recall a government with such a large majority performing so many u-turns and having such a lack of talent within its ranks?

What is worse is that there was an education committee report published 11th July saying that there were going to be issues and that a robust appeals process was needed. In other words he was (or should have been) forewarned both by parliament and what happened in Scotland. Currently the only reason Williamson has not yet resigned seems to be that as a former chief whip he knows where some of the skeletons are buried.

by Samo Tue 18 Aug 2020, 7:08 pm

lostinwales wrote:
MrInvisible wrote:So the government are forced into yet another humiliating u-turn, and back-track on the A Level results algorithm. Given how exactly the same furore had played out in Scotland 2 weeks previously (with John Swinney feeling the heat) it beggars belief that the UK government couldn't have foreseen this one and learnt from what had happened in Scotland.

In a cabinet full of non-entities, in place solely for mis-placed loyalty on Brexit, Williamson is doing his utmost to challenge the likes of Pritty Vacant and Failing Grayling as most incompetent government minister - from the bungled schools reopening to the school meals voucher fiasco to this.

Can anyone recall a government with such a large majority performing so many u-turns and having such a lack of talent within its ranks?

What is worse is that there was an education committee report published 11th July saying that there were going to be issues and that a robust appeals process was needed. In other words he was (or should have been) forewarned both by parliament and what happened in Scotland. Currently the only reason Williamson has not yet resigned seems to be that as a former chief whip he knows where some of the skeletons are buried.

At what point do we stop blaming incompetence and start to realise that on the whole Tories couldnt give less of a Poopie about the common people?

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 18 Aug 2020, 10:11 pm

Samo wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
MrInvisible wrote:So the government are forced into yet another humiliating u-turn, and back-track on the A Level results algorithm. Given how exactly the same furore had played out in Scotland 2 weeks previously (with John Swinney feeling the heat) it beggars belief that the UK government couldn't have foreseen this one and learnt from what had happened in Scotland.

In a cabinet full of non-entities, in place solely for mis-placed loyalty on Brexit, Williamson is doing his utmost to challenge the likes of Pritty Vacant and Failing Grayling as most incompetent government minister - from the bungled schools reopening to the school meals voucher fiasco to this.

Can anyone recall a government with such a large majority performing so many u-turns and having such a lack of talent within its ranks?

What is worse is that there was an education committee report published 11th July saying that there were going to be issues and that a robust appeals process was needed. In other words he was (or should have been) forewarned both by parliament and what happened in Scotland. Currently the only reason Williamson has not yet resigned seems to be that as a former chief whip he knows where some of the skeletons are buried.

At what point do we stop blaming incompetence and start to realise that on the whole Tories couldnt give less of a Poopie about the common people?

Sometime around 1980 in my case.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 19 Aug 2020, 11:52 am

Samo wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
MrInvisible wrote:So the government are forced into yet another humiliating u-turn, and back-track on the A Level results algorithm. Given how exactly the same furore had played out in Scotland 2 weeks previously (with John Swinney feeling the heat) it beggars belief that the UK government couldn't have foreseen this one and learnt from what had happened in Scotland.

In a cabinet full of non-entities, in place solely for mis-placed loyalty on Brexit, Williamson is doing his utmost to challenge the likes of Pritty Vacant and Failing Grayling as most incompetent government minister - from the bungled schools reopening to the school meals voucher fiasco to this.

Can anyone recall a government with such a large majority performing so many u-turns and having such a lack of talent within its ranks?

What is worse is that there was an education committee report published 11th July saying that there were going to be issues and that a robust appeals process was needed. In other words he was (or should have been) forewarned both by parliament and what happened in Scotland. Currently the only reason Williamson has not yet resigned seems to be that as a former chief whip he knows where some of the skeletons are buried.

At what point do we stop blaming incompetence and start to realise that on the whole Tories couldnt give less of a Poopie about the common people?

Yeah! Tar all 'Tories' w/ the same brush and on the basis of your own, pre-formed position. Anyone that identifies w/ the right of politics will be first up against the wall, come the glorious revolution! Down w/ the Tory Scum! Keep the Red Flag flying! Socialist Worker anyone?

Good grief.

by Samo Wed 19 Aug 2020, 2:02 pm

That was quite a leap. Be careful you dont hurt yourself on the way back down.

by **Pr4wn** Thu 20 Aug 2020, 2:46 am

Samo wrote:That was quite a leap. Be careful you dont hurt yourself on the way back down.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 20 Aug 2020, 1:54 pm

Samo wrote:That was quite a leap. Be careful you dont hurt yourself on the way back down.

Touché.

by king_carlos Thu 03 Sep 2020, 12:04 pm

Did anyone else catch the slightly bizarre, definitely bemusing spectacle that was Boris at PMQs yesterday?

With Starmer being a defence lawyer, former DPP and Head of the CPS there is always a bit of clash of styles it's fair to say between the PM and leader of the opposition. The strange tactic of responding to a question about government U-turns by accusing Starmer of sympathising with the IRA almost felt like Boris was a virus ridden old computer defaulting to factory settings - i.e. his landslide election campaign.

Absurdity of the highest order. The issue for Boris is that without the mob jeering behind him a few more people seem to be listening to the words that slip out of his mouth as if by accident.

by lostinwales Thu 03 Sep 2020, 12:27 pm

king_carlos wrote:Did anyone else catch the slightly bizarre, definitely bemusing spectacle that was Boris at PMQs yesterday?

With Starmer being a defence lawyer, former DPP and Head of the CPS there is always a bit of clash of styles it's fair to say between the PM and leader of the opposition. The strange tactic of responding to a question about government U-turns by accusing Starmer of sympathising with the IRA almost felt like Boris was a virus ridden old computer defaulting to factory settings - i.e. his landslide election campaign.

Absurdity of the highest order. The issue for Boris is that without the mob jeering behind him a few more people seem to be listening to the words that slip out of his mouth as if by accident.

I believe post PMQ's a spokesman for Starmer pointed out that Johnson has been sponsoring Claire Fox for the Lords, who has previous in supporting the IRA, as opposed to Starmer working on prosecution of terrorists in NI.

Johnson only seems to have one mode - 'campaign'. He is terrible at detail.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 04 Sep 2020, 8:59 am

Amazing that Johnson can get away with saying something so disgraceful in the Commons but Starmer isn't allowed to call him a liar.

by **superflyweight** Fri 04 Sep 2020, 9:14 am

I've had defective windscreen wipers that would perform better than Johnson at PMQ's.

That by itself won't make a huge difference in whether or not people vote for him, but there are signs that his ongoing bumblec*nting of almost everything he touches and his innate lack of seriousness is starting to wear a bit thin with members of his own party and with the electorate as a whole.

I'm sure if Truss didn't have it in for Starmer that he would have posted the latest poll from Opinium that shows Labour drawing level with the Tories.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 04 Sep 2020, 11:48 am

superflyweight wrote:I've had defective windscreen wipers that would perform better than Johnson at PMQ's.

That by itself won't make a huge difference in whether or not people vote for him, but there are signs that his ongoing bumblec*nting of almost everything he touches and his innate lack of seriousness is starting to wear a bit thin with members of his own party and with the electorate as a whole.

I'm sure if Truss didn't have it in for Starmer that he would have posted the latest poll from Opinium that shows Labour drawing level with the Tories.

The problem for Johnson is that no one's going to have the opportunity to vote for or against him for years now. What good is a vote-winning leader between elections, especially if he's a duffer at the day job? He was an asset to his party in 2019, no doubt about it. Is he an asset to his party now?

The worst thing about his performance at PMQs this week for me, and I suspect for many Tory MPs, is that he seemingly spent none of the summer break preparing for it. He's been routinely awful at PMQs, and someone who took the job seriously would want to get better at it, you would think. But not Johnson.

'Innate lack of seriousness' is a very good way of putting it.

by king_carlos Fri 04 Sep 2020, 12:47 pm

Hi Luckless, in terms of preparation there comes the question of whether Johnson has the aptitude for it. The 'quick wit' as some refer to it that endeared him to many in TV appearances came in the form of little quips and silly, blundering responses. Rather than actually being able to remember 'his own' policies or withstand questioning on tough subjects. Boris has always been good for a sound bite but they've always been snack sized bites rather than a fulfilling meal!

I remember a TV spot during the election campaign where a group of home owners who have been repeatedly affected by floods are sat round a table with Boris and just laying into him basically about the government doing nothing to help the repeated flooding. After about 90 seconds of uninterrupted criticism from half a dozen people there is pause for breath and Boris just goes "hello!" in a jolly voice to remind people he's there. Everyone chuckles at the comic timing of it.

Being capable of that and having the aptitude to stand up to constant cross examination whilst his administration are under fire is two very different things though.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 04 Sep 2020, 5:14 pm

king_carlos wrote:Hi Luckless, in terms of preparation there comes the question of whether Johnson has the aptitude for it. The 'quick wit' as some refer to it that endeared him to many in TV appearances came in the form of little quips and silly, blundering responses. Rather than actually being able to remember 'his own' policies or withstand questioning on tough subjects. Boris has always been good for a sound bite but they've always been snack sized bites rather than a fulfilling meal!

Good point. It's worse if he had spent time preparing.

by Samo Sun 06 Sep 2020, 11:32 am

Cabinet ministers and MPs were practically tripping up over themselves to condemn the actions of Extinction Rebellions protest which stopped a few newspapers being on sale (government supporting newspapers but Im sure thats just a coincidence) but are all strangely silent regarding the anti-immigration protesters in Dover clashing with police.

Strange that.

by CaledonianCraig Mon 07 Sep 2020, 9:29 am

The Tories on the verge of getting what they always wanted - a No Deal Brexit.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 11 Sep 2020, 9:17 am

One for you, Craig:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/shetland-islands-independence-scotland-a4544606.html

Could be entertaining...

by CaledonianCraig Fri 11 Sep 2020, 2:00 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:One for you, Craig:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/shetland-islands-independence-scotland-a4544606.html

Could be entertaining...

Good luck to them I say.

And on the same day Scottish independence is the preferred option for the seventh poll on the bounce and No vote at its joint all-time lowest:-

https://www.survation.com/scotland-political-polling-september-2020

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