Ireland vs Wales - Six Nations Round 2

First topic message reminder :

Date: Saturday, February 8
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick-off: 14:15 GMT
Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant Referees: Luke Pearce (England), Mike Fraser (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

WALES TEAM TO PLAY IRELAND (Saturday February 8 KO 14.15 ITV & S4C)

15. Leigh Halfpenny (86 Caps)
14. George North (92 Caps)
13. Nick Tompkins (1 Cap)
12. Hadleigh Parkes (26 Caps)
11. Josh Adams (22 Caps)
10. Dan Biggar (80 Caps)
9. Tomos Williams (17 Caps)
1. Wyn Jones (23 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (74 Caps)
3. Dillon Lewis (23 Caps)
4. Jake Ball (43 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (135 Caps)
6. Aaron Wainwright (19 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (73 Caps)
8. Taulupe Faletau (73 Caps)

Replacements:
16. Ryan Elias (10 Caps)
17. Rhys Carre (6 Caps)
18. Leon Brown (7 Caps)
19. Adam Beard (20 Caps)
20. Ross Moriarty (42 Caps)
21. Gareth Davies (51 Caps)
22. Owen Williams (3 Caps)
23. Johnny McNicholl (1 Cap)​


Ireland (v Wales):
15. Jordan Larmour
14 Andrew Conway
13 Robbie Henshaw
12 Bundee Aki
11 Jacob Stockdale
10 Johnny Sexton (capt)
9 Conor Murray
1 Cian Healy
2 Rob Herring
3 Tadhg Furlong
4 Iain Henderson
5 James Ryan
6 Peter O’Mahony
7 Josh van der Flier
8 CJ Stander

Replacements:
16 Ronan Kelleher
17 Dave Kilcoyne
18 Andrew Porter
19 Devin Toner
20 Max Deegan
21 John Cooney
22 Ross Byrne
23 Keith Earls

Ah look. Two of the children have already blamed the ref. How boringly predictable.

Ireland are Poite’s children now that he has taken custody of them off of Glen Jackson. Bless.

Hail Poite! Our new Nigel!

Happy with that performance

Seems the attack has improved on last week

Wales did good but Ireland Definately better without the expectation.

Rough game. I feel like I've seen that exact match about 3 times already. Reminded me of 2014 and 2017 and some of the warm up games. Ireland very predictabe and it's disappointing Wales didn't perform well enough to win.

That felt like watching Pivac's Scarlets v a combined Leinster/Munster. But it was the Scarlets after Beirne and Barclay had left. Ultimately the difference was the breakdown and Stander getting on the ball where Wales couldn't after the first 20 minutes (Wyn Jones won one, someone else as well). Pivac is like the polar opposite to Gatland in how they approach the game and this felt like a very sloppy loss given what we've been used to under Gatland.

A few other things stood out. One was Ireland's try after the knock on by Tomos Williams. Wales would probably have held Ireland out for 3 or 4 minutes before Ireland eventually scored in the past. Or maybe they turned Ireland over. Instead, from the scrum, Ireland scored after 2 phases. It's not necessarily a dreadful thing though. Because the evolution under Pivac will be for there to much a lot 'more' rugby in 80 minutes than Wales have tried to play for the last decade. More running, more movement, more mistakes, more offloads, more chances, more tries. So instead of spending lots of energy holding out and trying to keep the score down Wales will try and go back up the other end and spend that energy running the other team around and drawing back level. The obvious issue with this is when you don't get that opportunity and how good you have to be to do it at this level and Wales are not good enough yet against a team that thrives on suffocating other teams.

It was also a game that hinged on two TMO decisions. The Irish 3rd try looked like double movement to me as he was short. Then Parkes try looked good to me on the big screen. But that's how close the game can be. Sport is sometimes about luck as well and Gatland was all about taking luck out of the equation. Pivac is not. It would have been a great try by Parkes but if he did knock it on then it was just unlucky. That can be the difference between a Wales win and a comfortable Irish win in the end.

The final point was how much Wales try and rely on individual brilliance. Specifically AWJ and Tipuric in the forwards linking play and then Johnny McNicholl when he came on as a runner, obviously Adams would have been that before he came off, and Tomos Williams from the base. If teams work them out and shut down those players they could be very easy to nullify.

Some players looked a bit off the pace today. The first was Wainwright who was anonymous today, Moriarty played a lot better and would have made more sense to start this game given the opposition. Second was Tomkins who looks very raw and not quite ready. He should probably be dropped for the next game with Jonny McNicholl coming in and starting. Dillon Lewis is a poor scrummager but did ok apart from the key scrum where we needed to win it on their line and score. That was a big error. Elias and Brown should have come on earlier. Losing Biggar was a big loss as Jarrod played well for himself but not necessarily for the team and played too much heads up which usually meant running back inside. Tomos Williams isn't quite the starting 9 yet and I think Gareth Davies should start as he looks more solid when Wales are on the back foot. Tipuric, Faletau, and AWJ stood out for Wales as a cut above the rest of the team.

Poite was quite poor but not the reason Wales lost. It seems the laws have completely changed at the breakdown from the world cup so it's hard to judge what's fair and what's not now but Ireland seemed to get away with a lot of lying on the wrong side, off their feet etc.

I hope Pivac and Wales won't regret losing this game and with it the six nations. There will be a time when Wales under Pivac become world class for maybe 6-12 months. If Wales are going to win games then it looks like they need to outscore the opposition in tries. The defence isn't good enough at any point on the pitch and that has to improve. There were points to be kicked at 19-7 and they turned them down. This might be a case of learning lessons but the second half was very poor from a leadership and control perspective, all compounded by Parkes not scoring and then losing the scrum, but the first half was full of good attacking enterprise and the constant offloading will pay off. Tipuric and AWJ look like they will be tasked with being Wales' Tadgh Beirne over two bodies which really means the blindside flanker needs to step up as well and help add some power and breakdown ability. I can see Ellis Jenkins being a starter in the this team at 6 or maybe Basham in time.

Oh and Ireland were quite good, good enough for the win, and Stockdale is a threat. But they aren't pulling up trees. Apart from Stander that felt like a less effective version of Schmidtball.

mikey_dragon wrote:They should check it at least. 

Weird that no English are complaining about Sexton today. If AWJ was whinging they’d be crying for the next 2 weeks. Toxic people.

That's a little rude and dare I say it a bit of casual racism. I think you should be very careful mickey. Perhaps if you should not post anything if a rugby match gets you so wound up you write very unpleasant things. Mods can we have a look and quickly deal with posts like this. Please remember our game is one of respect otherwise we go down the route of soccer, no one wants that.

guestalt_physicality wrote:Oh and Ireland were quite good, good enough for the win, and Stockdale is a threat. But they aren't pulling up trees. Apart from Stander that felt like a less effective version of Schmidtball.

It was a continuation of the slow unravelling of Schmidtball.  

In a sense Wales have had a head start in as much as Gatland himself began to loosen the hold on the pragmatic strings of Gatball before the end of his tenure.  So Ireland has just begun that process.  It'll improve over time.  
Whether the alternative to Schmidtball will end up being more effective than Schmidtball......?  Well Wales are in the same position.  They don't know.  But they found out today that the questions have started because as I said earlier for me that was visibly not a Gats Edwards team today.

I don't think that's right SecretFly.

Wales periodically tried to play more running rugby but then in the last 12 months Gatland was very conservative. He won a grand slam and got to the semi finals by playing some very prescriptive, meat and potatoes rugby. But then south africa won the world cup doing that so who can criticise it?

I don't think Farrell's Ireland will be that different to Schmidt's early years with Ireland. Schmidt became too negative in the last 2 years but Ireland didn't play much rugby today, they just waited for Wales to make mistakes. The first try came from the typical Irish pick and go game and then a horrible defensive error. The second try came from an unforced error as a result of a percentage kick to the corner. The third try was another result of Wales mistake and then scoring from a maul. The final try was another Wales mistake and scoring in the corner from a scrum and another missed tackle, which is again what Ireland have always done.

There might be some minor system differences between Farrell and Schmidt but the overall attitude is the same. Compete, spoil, kick well, keep the other team pegged back, and grind out points from slow possession and grinding their way with one out runners. For Wales, it's a completely different system based on offloading constantly and many other changes, really is like chalk and cheese, which you say. Cannot say the same for Ireland, I saw that exact performance from Ireland several times under Schmidt like I said: 2014, 2017, and the warm up game from 2019 stand out.

Nah.  That game today (by Ireland) wouldn't go far in any WC or even in AIs.  I'll be that blunt.  The game is up on Ireland's Schmidt system - it'll have to be more fundamentally changed because quite simply all coaches know it has to to make inroads in serious contests.

So what I was saying about today is that yes, Schmidtball was prominent but only to the extent that the new bits will come incrementally and for me that game showed plenty of little hints where they'll be.
But so be it, we look at the same game and see different things.  It's not the scoreline that makes me more upbeat about today than last week, it's because I saw more of a prospective future.

Yoda I cleared that up twice but BigGee kept removing it. I apologise for my poor choice of words, not all English are toxic. Just some of their posters that keep ruining our threads. Weird that the culprits are allowed to do it but my on topic posts keep getting removed, I guess it’s why everyone is calling them the Do Nothing Moderators.

So no Grand Slam for Wales this year. Ireland still in with a chance, i guess it will depend on how France go against Italy, if France play the same way as they did last week and put a big score on Italy.

Just in and haven't read the thread. Well done ireland! Wales terrible but Ireland much better, although I'm sure Ireland could be much better too.

Congrats Ireland.

Wales. Christ....... structure! What the hell, boys? What the hell???

Wales do the rip in the tackle really well however for Irelands first try they should have just tackled Larmour instead of going for the rip and they would easily have stopped him.

I know this is going to sound disingenuous/wummy, but that is the worst Wales performance I've see in perhaps 8 years. Genuinely. Terrible. So many unforced errors.

Only watched the first half, had to do something during the second half.
Did George North play today. don't remember him getting much of a mention....and did he play wing or centre?

mikey_dragon wrote:Yoda I cleared that up twice but BigGee kept removing it. I apologise for my poor choice of words, not all English are toxic. Just some of their posters that keep ruining our threads. Weird that the culprits are allowed to do it but my on topic posts keep getting removed, I guess it’s why everyone is calling them the Do Nothing Moderators.

That's cool apology accepted, with wums if you give them what they want they will come back for more. All nations have them and I'm pretty sure some sad individuals even pretend to be from somewhere they're not just to rile people. Best ignore and stick to the rugby chat.

On that note, I was looking forward to this match as I think this fixture always has a bit of bite to it and it didn't disappoint. Ireland at home is a tough place to go and win and there's no shame in losing. Just like England vs France a tough home team with a bit between their teeth is a difficult animal to tame. Wales will pick themselves up and hopefully beat France, which will liven up the competition some what.

majesticimperialman wrote:Only watched the first half, had to do something during the second half.
Did George North play today. don't remember him getting much of a mention....and did he play wing or centre?

stats say 4 runs for 6m. 2 tackles made 2 tackles missed

Never saw much of the ball. Didn't see 1st half so can't comment. 2nd half he waited about 20 minutes for a pass then knocked on when he finally got one.

LondonTiger wrote:

guestalt_physicality wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

guestalt_physicality wrote:If the weather in Cork is anything to go by the winner will be whoever adapts to the conditions. Wales took 40 minutes to get used to the rain in Paris last year. If they take that long again they will probably lose.

They took 2 minutes to take the lead in the rain in Cardiff against Ireland last year is probably the more appropriate memory to relate to involving wales, rugby and rain.

No not really because that was in Cardiff in very different circumstances just before a world cup when wales were going for the slam. It does feel like you keep trolling me. I see you're no longer a moderator as well which is maybe for the best if that's how you're going to be. Ireland are at home and have a very good home record and also aren't on their last legs like they were under Schmidt. My point stands. Thanks.

I removed the personal insult from Oracle's response. However apart from that it was a valid response to an uncalled for attack on another poster.

Par for the course for Miaow to insult or write essays.

mikey_dragon wrote:Tompkins not having a good time in defence.

Tompkins wasn’t great last week in defence either. Tackles too high.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Pass to W-Jones definitely forward

Who’s W Jones?

Collapse2005 wrote:Beating Wales feels great as we have not got a great record against them lately albeit thats 3 wins in a row now.

How? In Dublin, I guess?

Questions questions.

Wyn Jones I presume for the first one.
Although I haven't a clue what that Dublin question wants as an answer.

Let me break it down for you, funny man. I am not sure what the three wins in a row is.

RiscaGame wrote:Let me break it down for you, funny man. I am not sure what the three wins in a row is.

But you do know it was Wyn Jones being referred to. That's good enough for one night. I'll answer the second question tomorrow. Don't get too excited waiting for it.

Well played Ireland absolutely blasted us for possession.

Best Irish performance since england caught you with your pants down 12 months ago

SecretFly wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Let me break it down for you, funny man. I am not sure what the three wins in a row is.

But you do know it was Wyn Jones being referred to.  That's good enough for one night.  I'll answer the second question tomorrow.  Don't get too excited waiting for it.

Funny man, The prop didn’t get a forward pass. Otherwise it’s Jones or AW Jones?

Enjoy your night, Risca. Sleep well.

mikey_dragon wrote:Ireland are Poite’s children now that he has taken custody of them off of Glen Jackson. Bless.

mikey. Why can you not except Wales was beaten by a better team. and stop blaming the ref just because Wales lost today.

Wales simply was not good enough to win. Men against boys.( Irish men against welsh boys) SIMPLE AS THAT mikey.

I enjoyed that. So far so good for Farrell. While mistakes were made its the ambition that was most satisfying.

guestalt_physicality wrote:Rough game. I feel like I've seen that exact match about 3 times already. Reminded me of 2014 and 2017 and some of the warm up games. Ireland very predictabe and it's disappointing Wales didn't perform well enough to win.

Ireland were a lot less predictable than I've seen for a long time. The attack was wider which allowed the wingers space, there were a few runs out of the 22, the players had more freedom and were looking to offload more. There were other little things that stretched out the Welsh defenders.

RiscaGame wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Beating Wales feels great as we have not got a great record against them lately albeit thats 3 wins in a row now.

How? In Dublin, I guess?

Ireland won the two RWC warm up games v Wales which were the two games before this one.

RiscaGame wrote:Let me break it down for you, funny man. I am not sure what the three wins in a row is.

Usually it is when a side has won the last 3 matches between them

LondonTiger wrote:

rodders wrote:Based on the first round of games Wales will put Ireland to the sword here. Ireland need a massive improvement just to avoid being humiliated.

Not sure you can read too much into the first set of games. Ireland were disappointing but showed glimpses of what they can do going forward. Wales put away a very poor team by a large margin, yet at times looked pretty laboured themselves.

Hope that game improved your mood Rodders.

Collapse2005 wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Beating Wales feels great as we have not got a great record against them lately albeit thats 3 wins in a row now.

How? In Dublin, I guess?

Ireland won the two RWC warm up games v Wales which were the two games before this 

Interesting how the last three games went exactly the same way under a French ref (twice by Poite). By that I mean Ireland being allowed to flop all over the breakdown, collapse the scrums, talk down to the ref and try to dictate the game. I think anyone would lose motivation having to play against that. It’s been painful to watch too, the second halves especially seem to go on for so long with boring Ireland playing their limited rugby. It’s going to come undone again soon, it always does.

Mikey not only is it 3 in a row its 4 from 5 for Ireland v Wales.

I'm referring to the last 3 specifically. Saying that, before that one you had Glen Jackson who is up there with the aforementioned refs. Therefore I would expect the French refs to be retiring soon just like Jackson, god awful officials the lot of them. Not sure why Ireland play like Munster, it's not really good enough against the top international teams. If they were able to play like Leinster however...

mikey_dragon wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Beating Wales feels great as we have not got a great record against them lately albeit thats 3 wins in a row now.

How? In Dublin, I guess?

Ireland won the two RWC warm up games v Wales which were the two games before this 

Interesting how the last three games went exactly the same way under a French ref (twice by Poite). By that I mean Ireland being allowed to flop all over the breakdown, collapse the scrums, talk down to the ref and try to dictate the game. I think anyone would lose motivation having to play against that. It’s been painful to watch too, the second halves especially seem to go on for so long with boring Ireland playing their limited rugby. It’s going to come undone again soon, it always does.

Ireland playing boring limited rugby? Boring/limited or not. they played better than wales did and they won the game.( of course it was with the help of the French referee ) You are a sore loser mikey a sore loser.

Blaming the ref, classic excuse.

Soul Requiem wrote:Blaming the ref, classic excuse.

Yeah them English do it every time we play them. In fact, they wade in onto our threads and blame the ref even when we aren’t playing them. Why are you only vocal about this now... hmmmmm vicious agenda much....

Diddums Mikey, dry your eyes.

Typical reply to a truth bomb .

Your 'them english' BS gets a bit repetitive, you're lacking class.

I thought Ireland's limitations had been well and truly sussed though by all the top sides in the world (England, New Zealand, Wales) and even the odd emerging ones (Japan!)?  I thought that was the narrative of 2019 and the WC?  No?
So claiming a loss was due to Ireland playing an old, familiar, limited Schmidtball game is not much defence for a super duper, slick, fast, multifaceted, offloading, super fit side like WC semi finalists Wales.

In my opinion what I saw was a bad, misfiring, sluggish Leinster team  playing against a lively, spirited Scarlets side and still managing to get the result.  That's genuinely how I felt.  It surprised me how easily a misfiring Ireland could still smother off a side set for torrid, keep-em-stretched running and 'inventive rugby.  Scotland gave us more of a Welsh game than the Welsh.  
That's not to criticise Ireland.  For now I'm happy that sluggish, sometimes inept, semi-Schmidtball/Farrell new way amalgam Ireland manages to get results with SO much improvement in rhythm and team selection still required.

Soul Requiem wrote:Your 'them english' BS gets a bit repetitive, you're lacking class.

Your agenda is also repetitive.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Your 'them english' BS gets a bit repetitive, you're lacking class.

Your agenda is also repetitive.

My agenda of commenting on here twice?

Your agenda against the Welsh. Thought I made it clear why? You must be a little slow today.

Re watched the game this morning with a sober head on me...

Someone mentioned it, a dull Leinster vs a toothless scarlets.

Ireland deservedly won, and as always congrats, without taking anything away from their performance, they are great at playing some refs, especially french and especially poite.

Wales scrum looked like it wanted to attack, and it was nullified without being penalised, which is weird of a modern day Welsh pack. Then it hit, I hadn't realised just how much this Welsh team was ravaged by injuries:

Francis and Lee on the tight
Dee 2nd choice hook
Hill first choice lock (arguably)
Navidi first choice 6 (arguably)
Falatau is only returning and needs game time
Davies first choice 9
Anscombe first choice 10
Jon Davies first choice 13
Liam Williams first choice 15

Then there's owen Williams pulling out in the warm up, Adams off early doors...

10 starters including both first choice and back up tightheads, world class backs, and defensive leaders.

Both teams in transition, wales seem to have transitioned into a totally new type of play, which feels forced right now.

mikey_dragon wrote:Your agenda against the Welsh. Thought I made it clear why? You must be a little slow today.

You're basing this agenda against the Welsh on what exactly?

Scroll up, because you’re one of ‘them English.’ Jeez so slow .

Great first try by Wales yesterday, a bit like the sort of try youmight see NZ score. Great hands from AWJ.