Ireland vs Wales - Six Nations Round 2

First topic message reminder :

Date: Saturday, February 8
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick-off: 14:15 GMT
Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant Referees: Luke Pearce (England), Mike Fraser (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

WALES TEAM TO PLAY IRELAND (Saturday February 8 KO 14.15 ITV & S4C)

15. Leigh Halfpenny (86 Caps)
14. George North (92 Caps)
13. Nick Tompkins (1 Cap)
12. Hadleigh Parkes (26 Caps)
11. Josh Adams (22 Caps)
10. Dan Biggar (80 Caps)
9. Tomos Williams (17 Caps)
1. Wyn Jones (23 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (74 Caps)
3. Dillon Lewis (23 Caps)
4. Jake Ball (43 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (135 Caps)
6. Aaron Wainwright (19 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (73 Caps)
8. Taulupe Faletau (73 Caps)

Replacements:
16. Ryan Elias (10 Caps)
17. Rhys Carre (6 Caps)
18. Leon Brown (7 Caps)
19. Adam Beard (20 Caps)
20. Ross Moriarty (42 Caps)
21. Gareth Davies (51 Caps)
22. Owen Williams (3 Caps)
23. Johnny McNicholl (1 Cap)​


Ireland (v Wales):
15. Jordan Larmour
14 Andrew Conway
13 Robbie Henshaw
12 Bundee Aki
11 Jacob Stockdale
10 Johnny Sexton (capt)
9 Conor Murray
1 Cian Healy
2 Rob Herring
3 Tadhg Furlong
4 Iain Henderson
5 James Ryan
6 Peter O’Mahony
7 Josh van der Flier
8 CJ Stander

Replacements:
16 Ronan Kelleher
17 Dave Kilcoyne
18 Andrew Porter
19 Devin Toner
20 Max Deegan
21 John Cooney
22 Ross Byrne
23 Keith Earls

Is Rob Kerney injured? or as he not been selected in the squad at all?

Surprises me that Stuart McCloskey is over looked. I would be pretty worried to be facing him and Henshaw next weekend. Similarly Cooney?

Glad to see Furlong over fame his niggle.

Despite some of the reservations about this team it is still the backbone of what was a fantastic Irish team 13 months ago and Wales playing them in Dublin wont be easy.

Should be a cracking match

This team just isn't in the zone of 2018
(but then only a drop kick in their first game against France at the very death set that year in motion.... so, let's not be too hasty in reading tea leaves by that dull just-there Scottish win.)

But, I'll repeat, we can only analyse what we see - and so far, despite a new head coach, new scrum coach, new attack coach... this remains very much Ireland 2019.  Impotent, inconsistent intensity, scarce creativity, stand-still passing, excessive defending through 80 minutes.... and now a bloody dud scrum to add to the box of off chocolates.

So - are we being asked to re-establish faith in this limited, attritional, phase-play, endless defensively set game?  Or are we being asked to believe that these mostly 2019 chaps are suddenly going to drop a well drilled, high paced, high jinx killer game at a time of Farrell's sly choosing?

Even if we did hit lucky and do reasonably well in this Six Nations with the old tried and tested Schmidt model, we absolutely know that it won't be close to good enough when all these sides rework themselves back to peak readiness for the next WC down the line.

So I wait - for Farrell to begin the changes needed, personnel and strategies, that might convince me that we've begun a new journey.

You can call it predictable but it doesn't make it any easier for the opposition.

Andy Howells suggestion for this weekend

Halfpenny; McNicholl, Tompkins, Parkes, Adams; Biggar, T Williams; R Evans, K Owens, D Lewis, Hill, AW Jones (capt), Wainwright, Tipuric, Moriarty

No north, no Faletau, no Jakey..!

Interesting calls, very harsh on people’s form in the last match.

Andy Howell is stealing a living. Why would you ever drop Faletau?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Andy Howell is stealing a living. Why would you ever drop Faletau?

.... if you wanted Ireland to win?


Oh Dear..... we better move along quickly.  That subject has been covered before somewheres.....

mikey_dragon wrote:You got that right. He's even naming the team early like Schmidt did.

Schmidt always named it as late as possible.

It seems a bit like naivety from Farrell to name it so early, maybe he's picked it up from Gats?

Farrell is under a lot of pressure here, if he loses this, and that looks very likely, he's looking at a probable 4th place finish.

maestegmafia wrote:Andy Howells suggestion for this weekend

Halfpenny; McNicholl, Tompkins, Parkes, Adams; Biggar, T Williams; R Evans, K Owens, D Lewis, Hill, AW Jones (capt), Wainwright, Tipuric, Moriarty

No north, no Faletau, no Jakey..!

Interesting calls, very harsh on people’s form in the last match.

I'd go for Jake Ball as one of our true ball carriers. So I'd start him to make the hard yards and, hopefully, tire the Irish players a bit. Hill is a bit more mobile perhaps so would be good to get him on when the opposition are a bit tired and the game opens up a bit.

I wouldn't be against dropping North but he does have the knack of scoring tries. Wouldn't mind too much if he started either! Although, he looked even bulkier and slower than normal against Italy, like he'd bulked up even more to play centre. No need! If he has then perhaps his days as a test winger are over.

I'd prefer to see Faletau get the nod as he offers more than Moriarty. Better to get Moriarty off the bench when he's fizzing and with a point to prove! Plus he can cover 6 and 8 so good to have him waiting in the wings.

Culture of fear under Schmidt being hinted at by Henderson. Not sure I've heard of this before. Is this something the Irish posters were aware of or suspected, or something new coming out of the woodwork now he's gone?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/henderson-comments-hint-at-a-culture-of-fear-during-schmidt-reign

The Oracle wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Andy Howells suggestion for this weekend

Halfpenny; McNicholl, Tompkins, Parkes, Adams; Biggar, T Williams; R Evans, K Owens, D Lewis, Hill, AW Jones (capt), Wainwright, Tipuric, Moriarty

No north, no Faletau, no Jakey..!

Interesting calls, very harsh on people’s form in the last match.

I'd go for Jake Ball as one of our true ball carriers. So I'd start him to make the hard yards and, hopefully, tire the Irish players a bit. Hill is a bit more mobile perhaps so would be good to get him on when the opposition are a bit tired and the game opens up a bit.

I wouldn't be against dropping North but he does have the knack of scoring tries. Wouldn't mind too much if he started either! Although, he looked even bulkier and slower than normal against Italy, like he'd bulked up even more to play centre. No need! If he has then perhaps his days as a test winger are over.

I'd prefer to see Faletau get the nod as he offers more than Moriarty. Better to get Moriarty off the bench when he's fizzing and with a point to prove! Plus he can cover 6 and 8 so good to have him waiting in the wings.

I don’t think many would disagree with you mate..!

maestegmafia wrote:Surprises me that Stuart McCloskey is over looked. I would be pretty worried to be facing him and Henshaw next weekend. Similarly Cooney?

When Aki got his central contract Stu was never going to get a look in, given he is only really an option at 12.

It's ironic that so much discussion goes on over here about our lack of big ball carriers and physicality and yet probably the 2 most consistent and destructive ball carriers (Stu and Chris Farrell) we have can't make the 22.

Murray (another central contract holder) really should be in last chance saloon. Cooney at 9 with McGrath on the bench would add a bit more tempo to our attack.

Allegedly Sexton and Cooney don't get on too well.

The Oracle wrote:Culture of fear under Schmidt being hinted at by Henderson. Not sure I've heard of this before. Is this something the Irish posters were aware of or suspected, or something new coming out of the woodwork now he's gone?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/henderson-comments-hint-at-a-culture-of-fear-during-schmidt-reign

Well it is certainly coming out now but the question remains is it a bad thing, if it gets the players to perform then it is not necessarily a negative.

Likewise this talk of a happier camp under Farrell is neither here nor there if they don't produce much better displays than last weekend.

rodders wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Surprises me that Stuart McCloskey is over looked. I would be pretty worried to be facing him and Henshaw next weekend. Similarly Cooney?

When Aki got his central contract Stu was never going to get a look in, given he is only really an option at 12.

It's ironic that so much discussion goes on over here about our lack of big ball carriers and physicality and yet probably the 2 most consistent and destructive ball carriers (Stu and Chris Farrell) we have can't make the 22.

Murray (another central contract holder) really should be in last chance saloon. Cooney at 9 with McGrath on the bench would add a bit more tempo to our attack.

Allegedly Sexton and Cooney don't get on too well.

That explains a lot.

The Oracle wrote:Culture of fear under Schmidt being hinted at by Henderson. Not sure I've heard of this before. Is this something the Irish posters were aware of or suspected, or something new coming out of the woodwork now he's gone?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/henderson-comments-hint-at-a-culture-of-fear-during-schmidt-reign

Don't have time to read it.  Is it referring to players feeling ill at ease talking to each other/asking each other for help lest they look like they are not up to speed on their detail?

Well, if it about those comments made by Henderson, then I'd say it's easy to feel relaxed and fresh when such a presumed regime is gone.  
Yet, Mr Lovely Andy Farrell was a coach in that last regime.  Didn't he know his players were feeling 'fear', that the fear was cramping their style, effectiveness and desire for self-expression? And did Andy not communicate his thoughts to Schmidt?  Was Schmidt such a tyrant that ex-rugby League hardman, big fella, ex-England coach, himself feared bringing such concerns up?
I suppose we'll find out when he retires and writes his memoirs.

Meanwhile, it's one game in for the new relaxed, safe-space Irish camp.  New purpose build training facilities, undoubtedly aided by the confidence that Schmidt teams engendered for most of his term.  We're one game in and, indeed, player DO sound very happy and chirpy when I hear them being interviewed.  Saw Healy leaving the Scottish game with a big smile on his face.  This week he's comic at a press briefing.  So good spirits all round it seems.  

Not knocking it.  Hope the new mood helps players find the right Head space to make their skills tell on the rugby field.  But after the first game.... , the improved mood and disappearance of 'fear' ain't helping the gameplan, the tactics, the skill sets, the scrum or player's grip of reality when critiquing the Scottish game.

It's nice that the players are happy.  Now it's time to make the fans happy.  It's what Andy kinda promised.  Second game might

When Andy Farrell talks he sounds so inspiring. He also has a superb history at the top level of two sports. And yet I am not always convinced by his results.

rodders wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:You got that right. He's even naming the team early like Schmidt did.

Schmidt always named it as late as possible.

It seems a bit like naivety from Farrell to name it so early, maybe he's picked it up from Gats?

Farrell is under a lot of pressure here, if he loses this, and that looks very likely, he's looking at a probable 4th place finish.

I don't recall Gatland doing it often. He usually preferred as late as possible, especially with the injuries we had in the last 2 year of his reign. I remember Schmidt doing it often just before and during the world cup.

lostinwales wrote:When Andy Farrell talks he sounds so inspiring. He also has a superb history at the top level of two sports. And yet I am not always convinced by his results.

He's been very quiet and aloof during Schmidt's time.  It's really only now that I'm getting a feel for him as he opens up more in terms of talking on camera.  So you need time to work out what kind of person he really is and how his words reflect the performances on the field.

It's too early for me to come to any conclusions.  I just know the tone was too upbeat for my liking after that Scottish game.  And he seems very early too in his defensiveness when answering mild criticisms.

But.... have to give him time and leeway.  His first Head Coach role.  A different role and much more under the headlights from day one.  So he deserves a chance to settle in and find his rhythms.

On off the ball they talked about how Lam trained Connacht the first season liked they played the second season but for games carried on as they had as the players were more comfortable with the old style.

Ireland against Scotland seemed like that were they would try something and it wouldn't work so they would revert to type and get a penalty. The Irish players know that they are grand with the phyisical game so they figured it as best to do when under pressure.

This 6N is all about winning games for Ireland rather than a new style. The summer it will be the style

I was a little worried before the Scotland match, just a little but I felt that this set of Irish players would be too much for the Scots. I didn't expect it to be quite so much of a relief to get the win but Ireland have in the past found it difficult to hit the ground running.
This week I worry about how much of a kicking we're in for from the Welsh. I'll be placing no bets this week, either financial or emotional, I'm not expecting a win but a performance would be an unexpected and welcome surprise.

Dewi Lake and Taine Basham have been called up to the squad, I assume it’s only for training though.

Yeah they were training with them already, they just weren't officially in the squad. Someone mentioned it on here, but I can't find it now. With Navidi out and Dee having missed the first match, it makes sense.

Taine Basham is a great name for a rugby player, especially a flanker.

Interesting that Lake jumps the queue. I wonder if Pivac agrees with me that he should move away from that shambles region.

I had heard that Elliot Dee was fully fit again, so I guess he'll be back in the 22.

Meaning that he’s picked ahead of Parry and Otten, who along with Phillips are supposedly ahead of Lake. I quite rate Parry too.

mikey_dragon wrote:Meaning that he’s picked ahead of Parry and Otten, who along with Phillips are supposedly ahead of Lake. I quite rate Parry too.

I think they are looking at Lake as a long term replacement/member of the welsh squad... I don’t think Otten or Parry are going to get ahead of Ken, Dee or Elias...!

But in a few seasons Lake could well be usurping all of them...

Good forward planning in my mind.

Similarly with Basham, be surprised if either see game time but being in the environment has to aid their development.

mmmm, does Basham mean Faletau or Morirarty is injured?

Pie wrote:mmmm, does Basham mean Faletau or Morirarty is injured?

don’t think so? More that Navidi is and it’s a like for like swap hopefully.

Wales team announcement is at midday today

Rumours that Tompkins will start in an otherwise pretty unchanged team with North to bench.

The bench might see a few changes with Davies, Dee and Carre back in the running

Hopefully Davies and Carre are in. I would be okay with Elias keeping his place and Dee coming back for later rounds.

mikey_dragon wrote:Hopefully Davies and Carre are in. I would be okay with Elias keeping his place and Dee coming back for later rounds.

I wouldn’t want to risk Dee either, he’s a good lad and no need to rush him back when in all honesty we are helping ourselves in the long term by using Elias. He had a good game last week

Tompkins to start, North to the wing and McNicholl dropped to bench.

Rob Evans, Cory Hill, Rhys Webb, Jarrod Evans all dropped from the bench too.

Very surprised about Hill.

WALES TEAM TO PLAY IRELAND (Saturday February 8 KO 14.15 ITV & S4C)

15. Leigh Halfpenny (86 Caps)
14. George North (92 Caps)
13. Nick Tompkins (1 Cap)
12. Hadleigh Parkes (26 Caps)
11. Josh Adams (22 Caps)
10. Dan Biggar (80 Caps)
9. Tomos Williams (17 Caps)
1. Wyn Jones (23 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (74 Caps)
3. Dillon Lewis (23 Caps)
4. Jake Ball (43 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (135 Caps)
6. Aaron Wainwright (19 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (73 Caps)
8. Taulupe Faletau (73 Caps)

Replacements:
16. Ryan Elias (10 Caps)
17. Rhys Carre (6 Caps)
18. Leon Brown (7 Caps)
19. Adam Beard (20 Caps)
20. Ross Moriarty (42 Caps)
21. Gareth Davies (51 Caps)
22. Owen Williams (3 Caps)
23. Johnny McNicholl (1 Cap)​

Pretty happy with that

chris_501 wrote:Rob Evans, Cory Hill, Rhys Webb, Jarrod Evans all dropped from the bench too.

Very surprised about Hill.

Injured, they're saying.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

chris_501 wrote:Rob Evans, Cory Hill, Rhys Webb, Jarrod Evans all dropped from the bench too.

Very surprised about Hill.

Injured, they're saying.

That makes sense. I really like the look of that team. Pleased that Tompkins is rewarded for his strong performance. Again, it will be interesting who can make a statement from the bench.

I'm hoping there is no injury to Biggar in the first few minutes, Owen Williams coming on early following a long time out injured against Ireland in Dublin, reminds me of Henson that year!

I hope Owen Williams gets some time in the centre. Like to see what he can do

Dillon Lewis... why? North needs a huge game, and then needs to repeat that consistently. We have Lane, J-Mac, Rees-Zammit on his tail.
I probably would have selected Rolwands on the bench over Beard. I think he's got Carre, Brown and Davies spot on though.

mikey_dragon wrote:Dillon Lewis... why? North needs a huge game, and then needs to repeat that consistently. We have Lane, J-Mac, Rees-Zammit on his tail.
I probably would have selected Rolwands on the bench over Beard. I think he's got Carre, Brown and Davies spot on though.

Not bad points. To be fair Wynn Jones conceded more penalties than Dillon Lewis. I agree that Wynn Dillon and George all need big games, there places are up for grabs if not..!

mikey_dragon wrote:
I probably would have selected Rolwands on the bench over Beard. I think he's got Carre, Brown and Davies spot on though.

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

Shame for Cory Hill again.

chris_501 wrote:

I'm hoping there is no injury to Biggar in the first few minutes, Owen Williams coming on early following a long time out injured against Ireland in Dublin, reminds me of Henson that year!

Funnily enough, I did think of Henson in 06 too.

That was after I had realised that it was Owen Williams and not Watkin on the bench as cover though

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Dillon Lewis... why? North needs a huge game, and then needs to repeat that consistently. We have Lane, J-Mac, Rees-Zammit on his tail.
I probably would have selected Rolwands on the bench over Beard. I think he's got Carre, Brown and Davies spot on though.

Not bad points. To be fair Wynn Jones conceded more penalties than Dillon Lewis. I agree that Wynn Dillon and George all need big games, there places are up for grabs if not..!

Isn't that what you clean windows with?

Never heard of Glen Newman, wonder what he is like as a ref.

I don’t think we can drop Wyn until Carre cements his place which I expect he will do before the end of this championship. Wyn has been unimpressive this season but I expect he'll get better. I would have found a place for John too but at this point it’s anyone but Dillon for me.

The Great Aukster wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Dillon Lewis... why? North needs a huge game, and then needs to repeat that consistently. We have Lane, J-Mac, Rees-Zammit on his tail.
I probably would have selected Rolwands on the bench over Beard. I think he's got Carre, Brown and Davies spot on though.

Not bad points. To be fair Wynn Jones conceded more penalties than Dillon Lewis. I agree that Wynn Dillon and George all need big games, there places are up for grabs if not..!

Isn't that what you clean windows with?

Ha ha ha

Nice one...!

mikey_dragon wrote:I don’t think we can drop Wyn until Carre cements his place which I expect he will do before the end of this championship. Wyn has been unimpressive this season but I expect he'll get better. I would have found a place for John too but at this point it’s anyone but Dillon for me.

I have a feeling it’s Johns fitness that’s an issue. Not conditioned as well as they hoped..! Just a rumour but that’s what I heard when I asked a mate who’s dog is walked by the daughter of the guy who wets the magic sponge when welsh players graze a knee..!

He’s a big guy, surprised if a prop forward from the prem is in bad shape though. He looks solid rather than overweight.

mikey_dragon wrote:He’s a big guy, surprised if a prop forward from the prem is in bad shape though. He looks solid rather than overweight.

Hopefully they get him ready because he’s built like a miners outhouse.