England's Summer

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:02 am

With our Six Nations Campaign over (for now) with us currently top of the table https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/table/ (Award the Tropy now Very Happy

), it is time to look ahead to what the next few months will bring.

The key debating points are:

-> Who will tour in the Summer to Japan
-> What will be the outcome of Eddie's meeting with Bill Sweeney (RFU CEO)

Fixtures

Noting that much depends on whether Japan is allowing sporting matches in July. With the Premiership final on the 20th June, the weekend of the 27/28th could be available to fulfill the Italy fixture - with that team then having the summer off as planned and the younger lads going to Japan.

Italy (a) TBC
Barbarians (h) 21st June
Japan (a) 4th July
Japan (a) 11th July

Squads

will be updated when we know something, but for now we can discuss who will likely travel.

Eddie's Future

Eddie is currently contracted until the summer of 2021 and is scheduled to meet the boss to discuss his future. Should it be decided he is not staying beyond then is there any point in him staying on? Perhaps bring in the replacement to work with him for a year? That may cause a conflict - but then I have no idea who would replace Eddie other than perhaps John Mitchell.

by SecretFly Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:14 am

Wasn't Eddie announced as some kind of consultant to some International side a few months back. I can't remember the side but was he already putting out shoots for his departure?

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:15 am

My guess is that the following will be rested this summer:

Mako, Marler (who may retire again after his ban expires), George, Sinckler, Itoje, Lawes, Underhill, Curry, Billy, Youngs, Ford, Farrell, Manu, Slade, Joseph, Watson, May, Daly

Meanwhile Kruis will be off to Japan to play club rugby and Heinz put out to pasture.

This means that the following who have featured in 6Ns squads this season will be available:

Genge, Obano, LCD, Dunn, Stuart, Williams, Launchbury, Ewells, Moon, Ludlum, Earl, Wilson, Mitchell, Maunder, Umaga, Devoto, Thorley, Furbank.

Most of those can expect to travel (Launchbury has barely played for England in the last 12 months and I can see him going. Ewells may skipper the party though)

Other players who have been in the world cup squad or around the squad recently include: Moon, Hepburn, Singleton, Shields, Simmonds, Mercer, Spencer, Robson, Smith, Marchant, Francis, Cokanasiga, Nowell, McConnochie (plus some I am bound to have forgotten).

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:16 am

SecretFly wrote:Wasn't Eddie announced as some kind of consultant to some International side a few months back. I can't remember the side but was he already putting out shoots for his departure?

Been doing some consultancy for Suntory in Japan.

by Geordie Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:18 am

How many are usually in the touring squad? About 30?

by Geordie Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:19 am

LondonTiger wrote:My guess is that the following will be rested this summer:

Mako, Marler (who may retire again after his ban expires), George, Sinckler, Itoje, Lawes, Underhill, Curry, Billy, Youngs, Ford, Farrell, Manu, Slade, Joseph, Watson, May, Daly

Meanwhile Kruis will be off to Japan to play club rugby and Heinz put out to pasture.

This means that the following who have featured in 6Ns squads this season will be available:

Genge, Obano, LCD, Dunn, Stuart, Williams, Launchbury, Ewells, Moon, Ludlum, Earl, Wilson, Mitchell, Maunder, Umaga, Devoto, Thorley, Furbank.

Most of those can expect to travel (Launchbury has barely played for England in the last 12 months and I can see him going. Ewells may skipper the party though)

Other players who have been in the world cup squad or around the squad recently include: Moon, Hepburn, Singleton, Shields, Simmonds, Mercer, Spencer, Robson, Smith, Marchant, Francis, Cokanasiga, Nowell, McConnochie (plus some I am bound to have forgotten).

I think Willis will be there...and id be amazed if the other Curry is not there.

Ollie Lawrence...

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:21 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:How many are usually in the touring squad?

Varies - much will depend on whether they do try and fit teh Italy game into that window and how they balance the desire to win the 6Ns with resting players. Eddie too 37 to Argentina in 2017, which seemed over the top then and would be far too many for Japan.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:25 am

Just remembered I have forgotten Dingwall - though I doubt he will travel.

I would quite like to see the following Test XV:

Genge, LCD, Stuart, Launchbury, Ewells, Wilson, Curry (B), Simmonds, Mitchell, Simmonds, Thorley, Devoto, Marchant, Cokanasiga, Nowell

Though if I was honest I would like Sam James to go, but he won't.

by SecretFly Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:26 am

LondonTiger wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Wasn't Eddie announced as some kind of consultant to some International side a few months back. I can't remember the side but was he already putting out shoots for his departure?

Been doing some consultancy for Suntory in Japan.

Oh yeah, that's it - got the International bit wrong. Seems to be an increasingly attractive environment for players and coaches with the money to go with it, and wasn't that consultancy titled as something to do with head coach or director. And we were all scratching our head as to how he'd function in the role.

by Soul Requiem Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:33 am

LondonTiger wrote:Just remembered I have forgotten Dingwall - though I doubt he will travel.

I would quite like to see the following Test XV:

Genge, LCD, Stuart, Launchbury, Ewells, Wilson, Curry (B), Simmonds, Mitchell, Simmonds, Thorley, Devoto, Marchant, Cokanasiga, Nowell

Though if I was honest I would like Sam James to go, but he won't.

I'd like to either Hill or Dombrandt tried at 6 with Wilson at 7 or 8. Furbank is surely worth a go at full back again?

by Geordie Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:33 am

This was all very - hear say...but There was a discussion on talk sport this morning...and one of guys had pass a nonchalent comment that he was with some members of the RFU this weekend...and he got a very strong impression that Eddie Jones would be leaving after his contract ends...that teams were looking at giving two year contracts prior to world cups etc.

It was interesting to hear.

by Geordie Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:34 am

Ted HIll would probably be considered aswell...

Back row is the biggest dilema...

by Soul Requiem Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:40 am

I wouldn't be surprised to see Wilson and Ludlum both play for a bit of continuity in the back row with someone new at 6. Sam Simmonds is a good player but he's very much a known quantity so not a great deal to be gained from him playing, difficult to balance the team between established players and newcomers.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:48 am

Yeah having written about Ludlum earlier I then forgot him. I am not convinced by Furbank. It probably is worth looking at Hill and Dombrandt as well. Perhaps two different back rows for the tests.

by TightHEAD Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:49 am

I personally would rest most of the starting senior squad this summer, use the summer tour to work with new players and the finishers/bench warmers and see who stands out.

by Soul Requiem Mon 09 Mar 2020, 11:01 am

LondonTiger wrote:Yeah having written about Ludlum earlier I then forgot him. I am not convinced by Furbank. It probably is worth looking at Hill and Dombrandt as well. Perhaps two different back rows for the tests.

To be honest I'd take Slade who hasn't played much since the world cup and chuck him at full back.

I'd start Hill the first game and bring Dombrandt on and then switch them for the the second test, no real benefit in changing too much.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 Mar 2020, 11:06 am

My feeling on Slade is that with the amount of injuries he has had he could actually use a proper break more than games. Of course much depends on whether Eddie is still in charge - both long term and short term.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 Mar 2020, 11:09 am

Even resting players, I feel we can put out a really good side this summer - with worries about the half backs.

by Geordie Mon 09 Mar 2020, 11:47 am

Im not getting the Slade thing now.

He had potential...shows up ok in some games then is out injured so much. Tompkins in a few games for Wales has shown SO MUCH more than Slade has in however many games.

We need to find other options in the midfield. I'd certainly look at Ollie Lawrence and Sam james...

by Soul Requiem Mon 09 Mar 2020, 11:50 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Im not getting the Slade thing now.

He had potential...shows up ok in some games then is out injured so much. Tompkins in a few games for Wales has shown SO MUCH more than Slade has in however many games.

We need to find other options in the midfield. I'd certainly look at Ollie Lawrence and Sam james...

I can't agree with that at all. Tompkins had shown flashes in attack but looks a liability in defence, he did effectively cost Wales two matches.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 09 Mar 2020, 11:50 am

It's an exciting tour in respect that alit of these players are the form players in the prem but not being handed chancea due to work rate etc. Will be exciting to see how these guys progress from start to finish. On that above list from LT I'd also like to see Hill from Exeter and my 2 must s of willis and Dombrandt.

by WELL-PAST-IT Mon 09 Mar 2020, 12:03 pm

Don't forget Harry Mallinder, I can see him touring. He will provide a second play maker or third if necessary and gives versatility across the back line.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 Mar 2020, 12:35 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Don't forget Harry Mallinder, I can see him touring. He will provide a second play maker or third if necessary and gives versatility across the back line.

I originally had Mallinder at 15 in my prospective team, before deciding that I would be interested to see how Nowell went there.

by Geordie Mon 09 Mar 2020, 12:49 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Im not getting the Slade thing now.

He had potential...shows up ok in some games then is out injured so much. Tompkins in a few games for Wales has shown SO MUCH more than Slade has in however many games.

We need to find other options in the midfield. I'd certainly look at Ollie Lawrence and Sam james...

I can't agree with that at all. Tompkins had shown flashes in attack but looks a liability in defence, he did effectively cost Wales two matches.

But he's still adapting to the defensive set up etc. He's just new to the squad. That will improve as will his connection with the rest of the team in attack will also.

by Soul Requiem Mon 09 Mar 2020, 2:22 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Im not getting the Slade thing now.

He had potential...shows up ok in some games then is out injured so much. Tompkins in a few games for Wales has shown SO MUCH more than Slade has in however many games.

We need to find other options in the midfield. I'd certainly look at Ollie Lawrence and Sam james...

I can't agree with that at all. Tompkins had shown flashes in attack but looks a liability in defence, he did effectively cost Wales two matches.

But he's still adapting to the defensive set up etc. He's just new to the squad. That will improve as will his connection with the rest of the team in attack will also.

I don't think it's necessarily down to that, he just seems a bit weak in the tackle. It's not been players go round him but through him that have been the problem.

by yappysnap Mon 09 Mar 2020, 9:17 pm

Slade's game is slightly different to Tompkins too. Slade is like a more refined Farrell, he can pass and kick well and has great vision, he looks and seems more balanced then Faz.

Tompkins is more like JJ, he can kick and pass too, but he's better ball in hand stepping off either foot and hitting gaps at pace in short bursts. He's very good over 20 yards.

by quinsforever Mon 09 Mar 2020, 10:02 pm

hard to imagine there will be a japan summer tour

or japan olympics

we are in uncharted territory

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 10 Mar 2020, 1:47 am

quinsforever wrote:hard to imagine there will be a japan summer tour

or japan olympics

we are in uncharted territory

Yes. Japan is one of the four countries identified by the WHO with community contagion (along with China, Korea & Italy). We simply don't know how serious the effects of this virus will be on the population. A decision on the Olympics probably has to be made by May at the latest, which doesn't give us a lot of time. Hard to see the Olympics being cancelled while England games are given a green light.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 10 Mar 2020, 9:01 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
quinsforever wrote:hard to imagine there will be a japan summer tour

or japan olympics

we are in uncharted territory

Yes. Japan is one of the four countries identified by the WHO with community contagion (along with China, Korea & Italy). We simply don't know how serious the effects of this virus will be on the population. A decision on the Olympics probably has to be made by May at the latest, which doesn't give us a lot of time. Hard to see the Olympics being cancelled while England games are given a green light.

The flip side is that the Japanese Government will do absolutely everything it can not to cancel the Olympics. A knock on effect may be that they will try to ensure that travel is up and running in advance thus facilitating England's tour.

But this is indeed uncharted territory for the modern world.

by Soul Requiem Tue 10 Mar 2020, 9:04 am

If there's one country that could ensure the Olympics go ahead then it's Japan.

by TightHEAD Tue 10 Mar 2020, 9:07 am

I think the Japanese are better at washing their hands than the Italians and Spanish by the looks of it.

I think the Olympics will go on, as will the summer tour.

by SecretFly Tue 10 Mar 2020, 10:31 am

TightHEAD wrote:I think the Japanese are better at washing their hands than the Italians and Spanish by the looks of it.

I think the Olympics will go on, as will the summer tour.

Not in any way trying to be funny here (about a serious virus) but perhaps the Italians and Spanish are tragically proving an old caricature of them as genuine. Maybe they are just great lovers, even into old age. I'm sure the virus spreads down that avenue too.

There ARE specific reasons why Northern Italy seems such a notable, quantifiable hotspot. And scientists need to establish some of those specific reasons rather than appearing endlessly in the media. Go do some real work, scientists; and if it's a lack of hand washing practice - or other stuff - say so.

by Soul Requiem Tue 10 Mar 2020, 11:47 am

So players who have 20 or more match involvements (20 minutes minimum) since August will be ruled out of the Japan tour.

Youngs, Lawes, Daly, Curry and Ford have already reached that mark, can imagine we'll see some players selected we didn't necessarily think would be.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 10 Mar 2020, 12:03 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:So players who have 20 or more match involvements (20 minutes minimum) since August will be ruled out of the Japan tour.

Youngs, Lawes, Daly, Curry and Ford have already reached that mark, can imagine we'll see some players selected we didn't necessarily think would be.

Yeah was reading that - noting it only applies to those in the WC squad and exceptions are allowed in extremis. Does mean that the likes of Genge and Ludlum who could have really pushed their cases in the Summer are likely to be in this group.

by Yoda Wed 11 Mar 2020, 9:33 pm

If we take a green squad to Japan we will get beaten. They are pretty decent atm. Having said that I wouldn't mind the losses if some of the great young talent go and get capped (it will stop Wales nicking any more players anyway!) I really want to see Willis, umanga, Robson, marchant, mallender and sam Simmons get some game time. Just because out of all of the talent they seem to have the little bit extra needed to stand out. There are probably more but they stick out as young enough and good enough to invest some international time.

by MichaelT Thu 12 Mar 2020, 8:43 am

Yoda wrote:If we take a green squad to Japan we will get beaten.

A pretty green team stuck 50 points on the Barbarians last year. Not completely the same but you never know with players with a point to prove.

We could put out this team

Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Ewels, Launchbury, B Curry, Earl, Mercer, Maunder, Smith, Ashton, Slade, Marchant, Watson, Malins

Moon, Singleton, Williams, Hill, Simmonds, Mitchell, Simmonds, Thorley

Would Launchbury, Slade and Anthony Watson have reached the 20 game mark this season?

Havent even included Isiekwe, J Hill or Dombrandt.

by Cumbrian Thu 12 Mar 2020, 9:41 am

MichaelT wrote:
Yoda wrote:If we take a green squad to Japan we will get beaten.

A pretty green team stuck 50 points on the Barbarians last year. Not completely the same but you never know with players with a point to prove.

We could put out this team

Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Ewels, Launchbury, B Curry, Earl, Mercer, Maunder, Smith, Ashton, Slade, Marchant, Watson, Malins

Moon, Singleton, Williams, Hill, Simmonds, Mitchell, Simmonds, Thorley

Would Launchbury, Slade and Anthony Watson have reached the 20 game mark this season?

Havent even included Isiekwe, J Hill or Dombrandt.

You're not a Bath fan by any chance are you? Very Happy

by MichaelT Thu 12 Mar 2020, 9:49 am

Cumbrian wrote:You're not a Bath fan by any chance are you?

No, Falcons, just thought that combinations would work better and I think Obano would suit a more open match than Moon so the front row went from there. I added Mercer instead of Dombrandt as Jones looks more of a fan, and Watson is in such good form and probably available after injuries.

I did think that myself when I posted that Bath arent exactly top of the pile, but I do think thats more coaching than ability.

by lostinwales Thu 12 Mar 2020, 10:33 am

Yoda wrote:If we take a green squad to Japan we will get beaten. They are pretty decent atm. Having said that I wouldn't mind the losses if some of the great young talent go and get capped (it will stop Wales nicking any more players anyway!) I really want to see Willis, umanga, Robson, marchant, mallender and sam Simmons get some game time. Just because out of all of the talent they seem to have the little bit extra needed to stand out. There are probably more but they stick out as young enough and good enough to invest some international time.

Japan spent so much time getting things right in the run up to the RWC to produce what they did. I don't think they are at a standard when they can keep up the level they achieved in the RWC outside of it.

They won't be pushovers but I'd expect us to win even with a green squad.

by Cumbrian Thu 12 Mar 2020, 11:37 am

MichaelT wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:You're not a Bath fan by any chance are you?

No, Falcons, just thought that combinations would work better and I think Obano would suit a more open match than Moon so the front row went from there. I added Mercer instead of Dombrandt as Jones looks more of a fan, and Watson is in such good form and probably available after injuries.

I did think that myself when I posted that Bath arent exactly top of the pile, but I do think thats more coaching than ability.

Good man.

by Geordie Thu 12 Mar 2020, 12:33 pm

So who do you take and why?

Ludlum
Earl
B. Curry
Willis
Hill
Simmonds
Mercer
Dombrant

by WELL-PAST-IT Thu 12 Mar 2020, 2:38 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:So who do you take and why?

Ludlum Well he is Saint, He has proven that he is up to the required standard, can play 8.
Earl Read Ludlam, if on a smaller number of 20 min stints
B. Curry Was considered better than Tom a while ago, not had the chance to prove he still is.
Willis Not seen enough to comment
Hill Needs to work on his speed around the park and his recovery out of the tackle, too slow at the moment
Simmonds Probably would fit is as a 6/8 bench man
Mercer Simmons is better
Dombrant See Hill

by Soul Requiem Thu 12 Mar 2020, 2:41 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:So who do you take and why?

Ludlum
Earl
B. Curry
Willis
Hill
Simmonds
Mercer
Dombrant

Wilson will be going I reckon, wouldn't be surprised if he was made captain in the absence of Ford and Farrell.

by Gooseberry Thu 12 Mar 2020, 2:47 pm

Thought BCurry was going as the scrum half Rolling Eyes

by formerly known as Sam Thu 12 Mar 2020, 4:16 pm

I'd hope we rest all of the players who travelled to Japan last summer. This summer is a perfect chance to go ahead and select a squad of possible internationals whilst getting our main men some proper rest as there's a brutal Lions tour next summer.

A 34 of something like;

LH - Obano, Hepburn, Harrison
Hooker - Dunn, Taylor, Singleton (an exception as he didn't play?)
TH - Williams, Stuart, Painter
Lock - Ewels, Moon, Isikwe, Stooke
6 - Hill, Willis
7 - Curry (B), Earl
8 - Dombrandt, Simmons
9 - Spencer, White, Mitchell
10 - Smith, Simmons
Centre - Devoto, S James, Lawrence, Marchant
Wing - Thorley, Yarde, Loader, Hodge
15 - Mallinder, Mallins

by Soul Requiem Thu 12 Mar 2020, 7:05 pm

Marler- 10 week ban
Haouas- 3 week ban

Doesn't quite add up to me.

by Geordie Thu 12 Mar 2020, 8:14 pm

Thw world has officially gone mad.

So you can have a cheeky bit of banter and get 3 times the ban of a guy who lands a full on punch on the pitch.

Who ever came up with those bans need their heads read.

That could be the end of Joes England career...he may go back into retirement.

by yappysnap Thu 12 Mar 2020, 8:18 pm

What a load of cowpat.

Utter cowpat.

I'm glad the remaining games in the tournament have been binned, as any this weekend would stick in the craw after those bans.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 12 Mar 2020, 8:27 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Thw world has officially gone mad.

So you can have a cheeky bit of banter and get 3 times the ban of a guy who lands a full on punch on the pitch.

Who ever came up with those bans need their heads read.

That could be the end of Joes England career...he may go back into retirement.

Fondling someone's dick is not banter.

by Gooseberry Thu 12 Mar 2020, 8:32 pm

4 weeks for Manu on the surface is ridiculous but I guess his history catches up with him.

Lets not forget Hartley got a longer ban for not calling a ref a cheat, and the same for reacting to being fishooked. God knows what he wouldve got it ferris has stuck something else in his mouth.

If the rest of the season get cancelled then the bans wont mean poop anyway. On top of that most of the squad will be eligible to go to Japan, only to find out thats been cancelled too.

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