Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[dynamark]

First topic message reminder :

I suppose it sort of makes sense with the Dyson effort because they just have to switch to blow.
Hope it works.
The self employed will have to adjust in future and get a bit closer to the NI and paye system.It has always been a bit unwritten that you can limit your contributions somewhat as self employed in the building trade and others but a big part of the economy. Again this may close a few gaps

[beninho]

I'm not going to get into another back and forth debate for the sake of it. Seems pointless.

[beninho]

8 more weeks, or 8 in total?

I don't know how they will start letting things get back to normal without a vaccine or the test to see if you've had it. That could be months and months.

Just a guess but I think 8 weeks in total before there's any significant change, they are going to want to get new infections and deaths down to well under 100 a day I would think. There comes a point when it's more important to get the economy back on track than save the lives of a few dozen people a day who would have been scheduled to die at some point in the near future anyway. Harsh, but true, and with 16,000 dying a day under normal circumstances, they'll have to make a call on it. Worth bearing in mind that the number of people who have died in the UK over the entire outbreak is not even half the amount of people who die under normal circumstances in one single day.

I think a vaccine is pretty unlikely in the short term, far more likely is an antibody test.

The query on this, is that it's hard to say how many people were on deaths door and on the way out before catching the virus. We just don't have the numbers available. I guess if the government make a call that people will die who weren't imminently going to die, and live with that in the name of the economy. They will have to own it.  It's a big call though.

Doctors and Scientists are aligned in saying that the vast majority of people who have died were likely to die at some point in the near future. I've lost count of the amount of them saying this.

That's fine, and I'm not doubting that a lot were probably already I'll. But we know that some weren't. So, if the government wants to own it and accept some will die who were not on deaths door then fine. My sister is classed as high risk, she has to stay at hone for 12 weeks. She has had 2 bouts of cancer, and has been bashed by chemo and radiotherapy and still ongoing. She is not on deaths door in any way. But this could kill her, she's been told that. If the death of my sister is worth opening the shops, I'm not sold. But you don't know my sister, so wouldn't care. I understand that.

[super_realist]

People also die unexpectedly from issues they didn't know they had. I knew two guys when I was young that simply keeled over and died. It happens. You simply cannot wait until there are no deaths because you could be dying with Coronavirus, rather than because of it.

I don't want your sister to die, and I've also got a relative fighting cancer so I can understand your situation, but it does mean that certain people will have to have a far longer lockdown. Hard on them, but there's always going to be a conveyor belt of people in that situation, so if you had to account for them at every step we would be in isolation forever. There comes a point where you'llu have to call an end, it's not being callous, it's necessity.

It's harsh to hear but it's not about the government "owning" anything, they'll get criticism whatever they do and when and people will continue to die in any case as they always have done. There will obviously need to be a number deemed acceptable.

[beninho]

At some point it all needs to end, it's just going to be a very tricky decision to make. As shown even during lockdown, people aren't great at being trusted.

[super_realist]

At some point it all needs to end, it's just going to be a very tricky decision to make. As shown even during lockdown, people aren't great at being trusted.

Exactly, but you can't win whenever you pick. There are always going to be vulnerable people whenever you choose to lift restrictions and no matter when you do it someone is probably going to die with coronavirus or because of it. You just have to make sure that those most vulnerable are taken care of and protected as much as possible.
Eventually the NHS is going to have to get back to the backlog of other stuff they aren't able to do.

[beninho]

My mother in law has had an operation cancelled to remove a patch of cancerous cells from her leg.

No idea how long it will take the country to return to anything resembling normality again. Unsure if it ever will but, I think things will have to change, I already saw talk about the restrictions the home office were going to put on low skilled workers in the future. Hopefully they have realised low skilled have kept this country ticking over.

[George1507]

Why are you including Finland? Finland isn't Scandinavia.

Hmm, I think that's debatable. Most people would say it is, and perception is reality. Finland was part of Sweden until 200 years ago. I don't think you can remove it from Scandinavia with that history.

[Soul Requiem]

Why are you including Finland? Finland isn't Scandinavia.

Hmm, I think that's debatable. Most people would say it is, and perception is reality. Finland was part of Sweden until 200 years ago. I don't think you can remove it from Scandinavia with that history.

Lapland is classed as being part of the Scandinavian peninsula the rest of the Finland however is just Nordic.

[super_realist]

Why are you including Finland? Finland isn't Scandinavia.

Hmm, I think that's debatable. Most people would say it is, and perception is reality. Finland was part of Sweden until 200 years ago. I don't think you can remove it from Scandinavia with that history.

The number of people who believe something doesn't make it true. Scandinavia refers to the Scandinavian peninsula, which is Sweden, Denmark and Norway.
Finland isn't Scandinavia, its just a fact. In any event not all of Finland was part of Sweden. Finland used to be an autonomous region of Russia too, and more recently than the Kalmar Union, yet we don't call it Russian, therefore its stupid to call it Scandinavian too.

Perception is certainly not reality.

[dynamark]

Ben 2 good points there first re your sister that is why unfortunately she has been asked to isolate for 12 weeks keep off the grid and no guarantees after that .second point other ops and treatments being cancelled will no doubt increase deaths from other causes.What we badly need is a sample test of a representative group that can give an accurate pic of who has it and whos had it but that test is not reliable at present .
as super said there are all sorts of causes of deaths from car crash to heart attack.
I'm sure we should be getting some stats by the end of next week that will allow some planning.
Maybe school open first for limited time then workplaces but with some strict rules in place
For instance in my office we can easily sit 2 spaces apart same desk no hot desking clean your own keyboards maybe not use canteen areas .Site visits we can do external works and even go into homes with a degree of safety .see what comes along.

[super_realist]

I would think before offices and schools are opened it will be public spaces and amenities which have less strict conditions i. e getting out in the car to park, hills, mountains, beach etc whilst restrictions on activities like golf, fishing etc will be lifted.

[George1507]

Why are you including Finland? Finland isn't Scandinavia.

Hmm, I think that's debatable. Most people would say it is, and perception is reality. Finland was part of Sweden until 200 years ago. I don't think you can remove it from Scandinavia with that history.

The number of people who believe something doesn't make it true. Scandinavia refers to the Scandinavian peninsula, which is Sweden, Denmark and Norway.
Finland isn't Scandinavia, its just a fact. In any event not all of Finland was part of Sweden. Finland used to be an autonomous region of Russia too, and more recently than the Kalmar Union, yet we don't call it Russian, therefore its stupid to call it Scandinavian too.  

Perception is certainly not reality.

Denmark isn't physically attached to Sweden (or Norway). I'm struggling to understand why Denmark is classed as Scandinavia, whereas Finland may (or may not) be Scandinavian.

[super_realist]

Why are you including Finland? Finland isn't Scandinavia.

Hmm, I think that's debatable. Most people would say it is, and perception is reality. Finland was part of Sweden until 200 years ago. I don't think you can remove it from Scandinavia with that history.

The number of people who believe something doesn't make it true. Scandinavia refers to the Scandinavian peninsula, which is Sweden, Denmark and Norway.
Finland isn't Scandinavia, its just a fact. In any event not all of Finland was part of Sweden. Finland used to be an autonomous region of Russia too, and more recently than the Kalmar Union, yet we don't call it Russian, therefore its stupid to call it Scandinavian too.  

Perception is certainly not reality.

Denmark isn't physically attached to Sweden (or Norway). I'm struggling to understand why Denmark is classed as Scandinavia, whereas Finland may (or may not) be Scandinavian.

In terms of language and history Sweden, Denmark, and Norway are very distinct from Finland. As I said earlier Russia borders Norway so should we consider that Scandinavian too?
Britain doesn't have a border with Europe, but we still say it is IN Europe, so why does Denmark have to have a border with Sweden or Norway to be part of Scandinavia?

Finland is a lot more like Estonia than it is like Scandinavia. Ask any Finn and they'll tell you they aren't Scandinavian. It seems its only people just assuming it's part of Scandinavia despite it not being. It's true they have a Scandinavian cross flag, but then so do Faroes, Iceland, Orkney and Shetland and they aren't Scandinavian either.
Finland is Nordic. That's it.

[beninho]

I have little knowledge of scandi region and little interest. So looked this up after the debates.

https://www.scandinaviastandard.com/where-is-scandinavia-a-guide-to-the-scandinavian-countries/

The main countries we know including the faroes. The other little in and out depending on how you are looking at it.

I

[super_realist]

I have little knowledge of scandi region and little interest. So looked this up after the debates.

https://www.scandinaviastandard.com/where-is-scandinavia-a-guide-to-the-scandinavian-countries/

The main countries we know including the faroes. The other little in and out depending on how you are looking at it.

I

The most interesting line: Finland is not regarded as being part of Scandinavia geographically.

[beninho]

So, basically, Finand was once part of Scandinavia when the term was first drummed up, but as times have changed it then moved away from being part of Sweden, but still has a lot of links to Scandinavia. If not now part of the original definition.
Something like that?

[super_realist]

So, basically, Finand was once part of Scandinavia when the term was first drummed up, but as times have changed it then moved away from being part of Sweden, but still has a lot of links to Scandinavia. If not now part of the original definition.
Something like that?

Well something like that, much more recently it was part of Russia but are we saying it's Russian as well as Scandinavian?
We don't refer to a country being part of something because it used to be part of some arrangement.
Shetland used to be part of Norway, but no one says it's Norwegian. I don't refer to Slovakia as being Czechoslovakian now becuase it used to be part of it, we don't say that Slovenia is part of Yugoslavia.

[McLaren]

Super

Not sure if you read all of the article but the point was that in different contexts like geography, design, architecture, politics, culture, language etc Scandinavian has different definitions. And in a number of those cases is used interchangeably with Nordic.

Finland may not be part of Scandinavia geographically but is when it come to talking about "Scandinavian welfare states". The article also points out that you cannot exclude Finish designers from the scandi design definition because many of the leading contributors to that are finish.

It is clearly not a word with one precise definition or usage.

[super_realist]

Mac, when do you have you ever defined a country on its similarity of design?
We talk about countries in geographical terms.
By the way someone from Finland is Finnish, not a dishwasher tablet.
If you've ever been to a Nordic country you'd know in terms of architecture that Finland is very different from Scandinavia. The massive differences in scandinavian languages and Finnish has also been discussed. Even if it were the similar, you don't see Belgium and France as the same country despite similarities in their language do you?

[beninho]

Scandinavia isn't a country though. It's a term used to define a region. Like being Basque, you could be from spain or France, you could even be from somewhere else but claim it through your ancestors.

Like saying you're a geordie because you are from Newcastle

[super_realist]

Scandinavia isn't a country though. It's a term used to define a region. Like being Basque, you could be from spain or France, you could even be from somewhere else but claim it through your ancestors.

Like saying you're a geordie because you are from Newcastle

Finns don't describe themselves as Scandinavians just as they don't see themselves as Russian.
People from the area of Poland that once used to be part of Germany don't see themselves as German because of an historical link do they?
Austrians don't see themselves as German's, Hungarians don't see themselves as Austrian because of the region they used to belong to.

[McLaren]

Super

Just read the article. It is pretty simple stuff.

[George1507]

Mac, when do you have you ever defined a country on its similarity of design?
We talk about countries in geographical terms.
By the way someone from Finland is Finnish, not a dishwasher tablet.
If you've ever been to a Nordic country you'd know  in terms of architecture that Finland is very different from Scandinavia. The massive differences in scandinavian languages and Finnish has also been  discussed. Even if it were the similar, you don't see Belgium and France as the same country despite similarities in their language do you?

Belgium was part of France until 1815, so yes, much more in common than just speaking French.

The Russian exclave around Kaliningrad (Koenigsburg) was East Prussia and Silesia until 1945. Lots of what is now Poland was Germany, and lots of what was Poland is now Belarus, Ukraine or Lithuania.

Choosing what is or isn't part of a geographic bloc is much more complex than territorial lines.

[beninho]

Scandinavia isn't a country though. It's a term used to define a region. Like being Basque, you could be from spain or France, you could even be from somewhere else but claim it through your ancestors.

Like saying you're a geordie because you are from Newcastle

Finns don't describe themselves as Scandinavians just as they don't see themselves as Russian.
People from the area of Poland that once used to be part of Germany don't see themselves as German because of an historical link do they?
Austrians don't see themselves as German's, Hungarians don't see themselves as Austrian because of the region they used to belong to.

Why you talking about countries? Scandinavia isn't a country it's just a name, it's not even a region.

[super_realist]

It doesn't matter if its a country or a region. If you aren't part of that region anymore , just because you were considered part of it 200 years ago doesn't mean you are now. It's very simple.

Do people from Northern Czech Republic consider themselves to be part of the Sudetenland region? Nope. See, doesn't matter its region or country. How often has Rutland changed the region it is in?

[super_realist]

Super

Just read the article. It is pretty simple stuff.

So I'll take that as a no that you don't consider a country to be part of a region on the basis of design, language etc. Have you ever even been to Finland?

[beninho]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/smithbrothersconstruction.com/the-philosophy-of-scandinavian-design/amp/

Get on go these people selling scandi design on the back of the Nordic countries

. https://scandification.com/is-finland-part-of-scandinavia/

Finland may not be Scandinavia but Scandinavia has embraced finland.

But generally who gives a flying, I dont, I just find it funny watching realist get wound up about something so minor.

[super_realist]

What else have we got to do when WFH?

[beninho]

I shout at kids, which takes up half my time. Try and work, which is not fun, or get into random debates with someone I dont know on the internet its keeping me sane

Apart from the washing machine breaking, that's annoying!!

[super_realist]

Now that is annoying. Hand washing would not be fun.

[McLaren]

BBC sport put together a list of the 50 best sports movies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/52072024


My question is, are there actually any good sports movies?

[super_realist]

I like Escape to Victory when Pele scores an OHK from the halfway line with broken ribs.

[Plunky]

I like the one about true story of Bob Champion and Alderniti. I think it's called "Champion". You'll need a hanky at the end though.

[beninho]

Happy Gilmore. Love that film

[kwinigolfer]

I like Escape to Victory when Pele scores an OHK from the halfway line with broken ribs.

If you get to be old enough you see some unusual things in your life: I saw Pele play at Villa Park once, in a friendly. Only time I saw him.
And, following on from Plunky's GN post, I also saw Red Rum run in a flat race! At Aintree, on the same card as Red Alligator's National.

[McLaren]

I like the one about true story of Bob Champion and Alderniti.  I think it's called "Champion".  You'll need a hanky at the end though.

Sexy movie suggestion. Thanks.  

[McLaren]

https://twitter.com/Bakari_Sellers/status/1248039118480736260

Who could have known this would happen?

Oh right. Obama for one.

[superflyweight]

I like Escape to Victory when Pele scores an OHK from the halfway line with broken ribs.

If you get to be old enough you see some unusual things in your life: I saw Pele play at Villa Park once, in a friendly. Only time I saw him.
And, following on from Plunky's GN post, I also saw Red Rum run in a flat race! At Aintree, on the same card as Red Alligator's National.

I once saw Pele in Dundee walking around the perimeter of the pitch at Dens Park during the 1989 u/16 World Cup. I often wonder how quickly he got out of Dundee when his ambassadorial duties were finished.

[super_realist]

What would you suggest you do in advance Mac?

[Plunky]

I like the one about true story of Bob Champion and Alderniti.  I think it's called "Champion".  You'll need a hanky at the end though.

Sexy movie suggestion. Thanks.  

Sorry, I forgot your "solo" status Mac.  If that ever changes, this movie would be good for a first date.  Sport, romance (but not too mushy) and a happy ending.  

[McLaren]

A "happy ending"

[McLaren]

What would you suggest you do in advance Mac?

Get some lube and favorite vibrator/fleshlight ready. Put the lights down. All the basics really. I am surprised you need to ask.

[dynamark]

Whats a fleshlight ?
Have to tell this one my lad called earlier his firm supply gym kit I said where are you today .he said Ive just been to Mo Salahs did Wan Bassako yesterday and Zinchencko on Tuesday.Major demand from footy players and all apparently all very pleasant.Suddenely realise they have to keep in shape.

[McLaren]

Whats a fleshlight ?

Do you really not know?

[westisbest]

BBC sport put together a list of the 50 best sports movies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/52072024


My question is, are there actually any good sports movies?

Cool Runnings is good.
Invictis is decent.
Really enjoyed Coach Carter and Remember The Titans.
Southpaw is very good.
Warrior also very good.

[Be_the_ball]

BBC sport put together a list of the 50 best sports movies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/52072024


My question is, are there actually any good sports movies?

Cool Runnings is good.
Invictis is decent.
Really enjoyed Coach Carter and Remember The Titans.
Southpaw is very good.
Warrior also very good.

JESUS H CHRIST!

You charlatans,

No.1 Caddy shack.
End of.

Is this a golf board at all?!?! pffffft!

Coach bloody Carter?
What the bejasus?.....

[westisbest]

Good film. Jackson is very good in it to, as he normally is in films, added bonus having him in a film.

Well apart from the Star Wars films he was in. Thought they were poor.

[beninho]

New washing machine in! That's a relief, though fun and games when we realised last night the isolater valve had bust, and wasn't turning to water off, as we took the hose off!

My usual pay the extra and get the man to do it not an option during lockdown.

And fleshlight, I had to google it, now deleted my history.

[navyblueshorts]

I read that flights coming into heathrow from America are just allowing people straight through, without any tests or checks. That seems bizarre.

The Sun is s rag, pure and simple and sun readers are generally awful, but its overblown support for the nhs is the worst, on a few years back it ran an editorial comment piece on sacking the doctors and getting rid of the ones who looked to strike fir better salary and conditions.

Finally, how long do people expect lockdown to last? The 3 weeks was always ridiculous, this is going to go on for months and months isn't it?

Papers need to generate sales; whatever sells and damn the moral scruples.

Re. lockdown, yes, months, but can see them relaxing it periodically perhaps. That said, not sure that's sensible and think those at elevated risk would be daft changing behaviour until vaccine arrives.

[navyblueshorts]

8 more weeks, or 8 in total?

I don't know how they will start letting things get back to normal without a vaccine or the test to see if you've had it. That could be months and months.

Just a guess but I think 8 weeks in total before there's any significant change, they are going to want to get new infections and deaths down to well under 100 a day I would think. There comes a point when it's more important to get the economy back on track than save the lives of a few dozen people a day who would have been scheduled to die at some point in the near future anyway. Harsh, but true, and with 16,000 dying a day under normal circumstances, they'll have to make a call on it. Worth bearing in mind that the number of people who have died in the UK over the entire outbreak is not even half the amount of people who die under normal circumstances in one single day.

I think a vaccine is pretty unlikely in the short term, far more likely is an antibody test.

Maybe, but I can't see how this helps re. lockdown etc. So you are immune, but you can still spread infection for others. So far, only a tiny % of UK population is confirmed as having had it. Ab test will help determine who's actually had it though, asymptomatics and all.

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