Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[dynamark]

First topic message reminder :

I suppose it sort of makes sense with the Dyson effort because they just have to switch to blow.
Hope it works.
The self employed will have to adjust in future and get a bit closer to the NI and paye system.It has always been a bit unwritten that you can limit your contributions somewhat as self employed in the building trade and others but a big part of the economy. Again this may close a few gaps

[pedro]

"Nearly three-quarters of the patients had a body mass index higher than the recommended healthy level of 18.5 to 25.

Which is pretty much in line with the rest of the population. So no major negative correlation btw overweight and corona hospitalisation. So what’s your point?

[beninho]

300,000,34,974,000 tests carried out.

God, Priti Patel is awful. Remember when people laughed at Dianne Abbott for getting her figures wrong. Let's hope this stays with Patel and she also becomes a laughing stock.

[Soul Requiem]

300,000,34,974,000 tests carried out.

God, Priti Patel is awful. Remember when people laughed at Dianne Abbott for getting her figures wrong. Let's hope this stays with Patel and she also becomes a laughing stock.

334, 974

Patel got her words wrong but clearly knew the figure she was trying to say unlike Abbott who was just wildly wrong.

[beninho]

She can't read numbers then. She was pretty terrible anyway. But hey she wants to bring back hanging.

[Soul Requiem]

She can't read numbers then. She was pretty terrible anyway. But  hey she wants to bring back hanging.

I'd assume she'd have a lot of support for that dependent on the crime.

[beninho]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

[Soul Requiem]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

It's only worrying if you're against it, you seem under the impression that your own morality is the only right way. We have a large number of Labour voters so yeah.

[super_realist]

"Nearly three-quarters of the patients had a body mass index higher than the recommended healthy level of 18.5 to 25.

Which is pretty much in line with the rest of the population. So no major negative correlation btw overweight and corona hospitalisation. So what’s your point?

The point is that when people mention underlying health conditions they mention asthma, they mention heart conditions, they mention diabetes, but they never really mention being overweight as an underlying health condition. This is the first time I've seen it. Furthermore it raises the issue of how fat we are as a country if over two thirds of the country is overweight

I can't remember who it was here who mentioned their wife works in the NHS and she observed that virtually everyone dying was a fat knacker.

It raises a fair question of whether we'd have so many deaths if we weren't in such bad physical condition.

[super_realist]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

How on earth can you link support for hanging with support for Brexit. That's absolutely retarded.

[dynamark]

Patel wasn't great but they do get asked some very stupid questions and have to try to put forward a reasoned answer.Story time again don't know if any of you watched tv last night film about Eddie the Eagle .
Back around 1985 a group of us went to Gloucester hotel for the weekend .Reasonable golf course,range, dry ski slope and leisure club for the ladies,My pal had never hit a golf ball but determined sort rugby player touch like an elephant.We took him on the range Friday evening and got him blasting away .Saturday morning he managed to sort of get it off the 1st tee under the watchful eye of the starter and we set off he was up and down but got to the 18th needing a 4 for 99 pretty remarkable.The last is about 300 yards steep downhill so it was possible but sadly he made 5 still an achievement of sorts.So on to the evening we hit the bar and one of the lads asked us to come over and meet this fella who was one Eddie Edwards(using the ski slope)who informed he was Uk only ski jumper.Nice fella sat with him and he  talked about being a plasterer by day he was a good skier but not quite good enough for the team so turned to the jumping which was difficult to train for.He was indeed looking for sponsorship to fund his training costs.We parted company and one of my friends who owned a large storefitting business said later 'nice guy but he will never get any decent publicity for a sponsor!'
A deal of that film was perfectly true alongside obviously some added bits

[beninho]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

It's only worrying if you're against it, you seem under the impression that your own morality is the only right way. We have a large number of Labour voters so yeah.

Do you think hanging should be brought back?

[beninho]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

How on earth can you link support for hanging with support for Brexit. That's absolutely retarded.

I mistyped. I meant if" we "have a large number supporting hanging it wouldn't surprise me.

Though, I would say that most people who want to being back hanging also supported Brexit. Just an opinion, on them all being pretty right wing.

[Soul Requiem]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

It's only worrying if you're against it, you seem under the impression that your own morality is the only right way. We have a large number of Labour voters so yeah.

Do you think hanging should be brought back?

I'm not against the reintroduction of capital punishment.

[Soul Requiem]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

How on earth can you link support for hanging with support for Brexit. That's absolutely retarded.

I mistyped. I meant if" we "have a large number supporting hanging it wouldn't surprise me.

Though, I would say that most people who want to being back hanging also supported Brexit. Just an opinion, on them all being pretty right wing.

Nothing more than a guess then?

[beninho]

"Nearly three-quarters of the patients had a body mass index higher than the recommended healthy level of 18.5 to 25.

Which is pretty much in line with the rest of the population. So no major negative correlation btw overweight and corona hospitalisation. So what’s your point?

The point is that when people mention underlying health conditions they mention asthma, they mention heart conditions, they mention diabetes, but they never really mention being overweight as an underlying health condition. This is the first time I've seen it. Furthermore it raises the issue of how fat we are as a country if over two thirds of the country is overweight

I can't remember who it was here who mentioned their wife works in the NHS and she observed that virtually everyone dying was a fat knacker.

It raises a fair question of whether we'd have so many deaths if we weren't in such bad physical condition.

In the vulnerable groups released it did say BMI of over 40. So its widely known to have an impact on the obese.

Though, if obesity is being treated as an underlying problem, then it definitely changes, the views on who it is killing. While being obese isn't good in many ways, it doesn't mean you are imminently going to die. I think the views that the most where on deaths door, is probably wrong.

[beninho]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

How on earth can you link support for hanging with support for Brexit. That's absolutely retarded.

I mistyped. I meant if" we "have a large number supporting hanging it wouldn't surprise me.

Though, I would say that most people who want to being back hanging also supported Brexit. Just an opinion, on them all being pretty right wing.

Nothing more than a guess then?

Obviously I haven't done a poll, it's an opinion. Would you not say, that most people who want to bring back hanging would likely hold right wing views?

[beninho]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

It's only worrying if you're against it, you seem under the impression that your own morality is the only right way. We have a large number of Labour voters so yeah.

Do you think hanging should be brought back?

I'm not against the reintroduction of capital punishment.

And did you vote brexit?

[Soul Requiem]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

How on earth can you link support for hanging with support for Brexit. That's absolutely retarded.

I mistyped. I meant if" we "have a large number supporting hanging it wouldn't surprise me.

Though, I would say that most people who want to being back hanging also supported Brexit. Just an opinion, on them all being pretty right wing.

Nothing more than a guess then?

Obviously I haven't done a poll, it's an opinion. Would you not say, that most people who want to bring back hanging would likely hold right wing views?

Not really no, anything to back up such an opinion?

[Soul Requiem]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

It's only worrying if you're against it, you seem under the impression that your own morality is the only right way. We have a large number of Labour voters so yeah.

Do you think hanging should be brought back?

I'm not against the reintroduction of capital punishment.

And did you vote brexit?

The relevance of that being what exactly?;

[beninho]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

It's only worrying if you're against it, you seem under the impression that your own morality is the only right way. We have a large number of Labour voters so yeah.

Do you think hanging should be brought back?

I'm not against the reintroduction of capital punishment.

And did you vote brexit?

The relevance of that being what exactly?;

Well your right wing and would bring back hanging, wanted to see if you ticked all the boxes.

[beninho]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

How on earth can you link support for hanging with support for Brexit. That's absolutely retarded.

I mistyped. I meant if" we "have a large number supporting hanging it wouldn't surprise me.

Though, I would say that most people who want to being back hanging also supported Brexit. Just an opinion, on them all being pretty right wing.

Nothing more than a guess then?

Obviously I haven't done a poll, it's an opinion. Would you not say, that most people who want to bring back hanging would likely hold right wing views?

Not really no, anything to back up such an opinion?

So, you think left leaning people want to bring back hanging?

[Soul Requiem]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

It's only worrying if you're against it, you seem under the impression that your own morality is the only right way. We have a large number of Labour voters so yeah.

Do you think hanging should be brought back?

I'm not against the reintroduction of capital punishment.

And did you vote brexit?

The relevance of that being what exactly?;

Well your right wing and would bring back hanging, wanted to see if you ticked all the boxes.

I've not once said i'd bring back hanging. I'd consider myself a centrist actually.

[Soul Requiem]

So, you think left leaning people want to bring back hanging?

Well yes obviously.

[beninho]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/most-conservatives-support-death-penalty-poll-reveals-11194549

Just a quick search.

[Soul Requiem]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/most-conservatives-support-death-penalty-poll-reveals-11194549

Just a quick search.

Thats that then

[beninho]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

It's only worrying if you're against it, you seem under the impression that your own morality is the only right way. We have a large number of Labour voters so yeah.

Do you think hanging should be brought back?

I'm not against the reintroduction of capital punishment.

And did you vote brexit?

The relevance of that being what exactly?;

Well your right wing and would bring back hanging, wanted to see if you ticked all the boxes.

I've not once said i'd bring back hanging. I'd consider myself a centrist actually.

You've previously declared yourself a conservative voter, your comments generally post you as right if centre.

[beninho]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/most-conservatives-support-death-penalty-poll-reveals-11194549

Just a quick search.

Thats that then

The poll finding that the majority of people who want to bring back hanging are right win conservatives?

[Soul Requiem]

You've previously declared yourself a conservative voter, your comments generally post you as right if centre.

A centrist can be both right and/or left of centre.

[beninho]

Not doubting that, and it's an area that has been overlooked in politics for a while now. It annoys me. The battle always used to be for the centre ground, get them onside. It's now become a battle to the extremes, both parties. I generally voted liberal Democrats, though I am a bit lost on them, and didn't vote them last time. I voted Labour, though made no difference round here. I want labour to become a good centre left party again, and to become electable to people in the middle. I hated the abuse from promin6lefties calling them blue labour.

[super_realist]

Not doubting that, and it's an area that has been overlooked in politics for a while now. It annoys me. The battle always used to be for the centre ground, get them onside. It's now become a battle to the extremes, both parties. I generally voted liberal Democrats, though I am a bit lost on them, and didn't vote them last time. I voted Labour, though made no difference round here. I want labour to become a good centre left party again, and to become electable to people in the middle. I hated the abuse from promin6lefties calling them blue labour.

Jesus, you voted Labour in the last election? How and why on earth would you have voted for that shambles of a party when you consider them worth a vote if they are left of centre? They couldn't have been much further left in the last election.

[beninho]

I couldn't take to the lib dems, and think they need a lot more to do. In this seat Labour were always second, so I voted with the hope of closing the majority. No other reason. Though I live in safest of safe blue seats.

[pedro]

"Nearly three-quarters of the patients had a body mass index higher than the recommended healthy level of 18.5 to 25.

Which is pretty much in line with the rest of the population. So no major negative correlation btw overweight and corona hospitalisation. So what’s your point?

The point is that when people mention underlying health conditions they mention asthma, they mention heart conditions, they mention diabetes, but they never really mention being overweight as an underlying health condition. This is the first time I've seen it. Furthermore it raises the issue of how fat we are as a country if over two thirds of the country is overweight

I can't remember who it was here who mentioned their wife works in the NHS and she observed that virtually everyone dying was a fat knacker.

It raises a fair question of whether we'd have so many deaths if we weren't in such bad physical condition.

How can obesity be an underlying health issue if the % obese of those hospitalised doesn’t deviate much from the general obesity percentage in society?

[Soul Requiem]

"Nearly three-quarters of the patients had a body mass index higher than the recommended healthy level of 18.5 to 25.

Which is pretty much in line with the rest of the population. So no major negative correlation btw overweight and corona hospitalisation. So what’s your point?

The point is that when people mention underlying health conditions they mention asthma, they mention heart conditions, they mention diabetes, but they never really mention being overweight as an underlying health condition. This is the first time I've seen it. Furthermore it raises the issue of how fat we are as a country if over two thirds of the country is overweight

I can't remember who it was here who mentioned their wife works in the NHS and she observed that virtually everyone dying was a fat knacker.

It raises a fair question of whether we'd have so many deaths if we weren't in such bad physical condition.

How can obesity be an underlying health issue if the % obese of those hospitalised doesn’t deviate much from the general obesity percentage in society?

You would need to know what other issues those classed as obese had?

[super_realist]

"Nearly three-quarters of the patients had a body mass index higher than the recommended healthy level of 18.5 to 25.

Which is pretty much in line with the rest of the population. So no major negative correlation btw overweight and corona hospitalisation. So what’s your point?

The point is that when people mention underlying health conditions they mention asthma, they mention heart conditions, they mention diabetes, but they never really mention being overweight as an underlying health condition. This is the first time I've seen it. Furthermore it raises the issue of how fat we are as a country if over two thirds of the country is overweight

I can't remember who it was here who mentioned their wife works in the NHS and she observed that virtually everyone dying was a fat knacker.

It raises a fair question of whether we'd have so many deaths if we weren't in such bad physical condition.

How can obesity be an underlying health issue if the % obese of those hospitalised doesn’t deviate much from the general obesity percentage in society?

That hasn't answered the question. The question is whether we'd have such a high number of deaths if the UK wasn't so fat.
You might argue that Spain and Italy have a lower % of fat people than the UK, but have you got an example of anything health related where being a fat knacker gives you a better chance of recovering from illnesses than if you are in good shape? I can't think of any.

Besides, the numbers are not broadly the same as what is represented in the general public. In the UK 28% of the public is obese, yet 38.5% of those dying from Coronavirus are obese. That's a significant difference.

[pedro]

I think you’re waffling. It was you who presented figures of the percentage obese of those hospitalised, when in fact it was (more or less) irrelevant.

But we can easily agree that far too many are obese and that it can’t be healthy. But it’s not entirely the same discussion.

And if other health issues (ie heart problems etc.) are due to obesity, it doesn’t make obesity an underlying health issue, especially when the numbers do not support it. (If it was, 85-90% of those hospitalised would be obese, not 70-75%.) It would be the same as saying gender is an underlying health issue for breast cancer.

[Soul Requiem]

I think you’re waffling. It was you who presented figures of the percentage obese of those hospitalised, when in fact it was (more or less) irrelevant.

But we can easily agree that far too many are obese and that it can’t be healthy. But it’s not entirely the same discussion.

And if other health issues (ie heart problems etc.) are due to obesity, it doesn’t make obesity an underlying health issue, especially when the numbers do not support it. (If it was, 85-90% of those hospitalised would be obese, not 70-75%.) It would be the same as saying gender is an underlying health issue for breast cancer.

Not sure that holds much water and is looking at things too simplistically.

What underlying health issues do those 25% have?

[beninho]

I know it's your hobby horse, but the fact that they were overweight may not have necessarily impacted on the death. Any percentages for anything given, or even the overall numbers are not accurate. As the full figures probably still aren't known.

Its easy to bang the drum, but a bit early to be jumping straight on it.

[super_realist]

I think you’re waffling. It was you who presented figures of the percentage obese of those hospitalised, when in fact it was (more or less) irrelevant.

But we can easily agree that far too many are obese and that it can’t be healthy. But it’s not entirely the same discussion.

And if other health issues (ie heart problems etc.) are due to obesity, it doesn’t make obesity an underlying health issue, especially when the numbers do not support it. (If it was, 85-90% of those hospitalised would be obese, not 70-75%.) It would be the same as saying gender is an underlying health issue for breast cancer.

Obese people put additional strain on their respiratory organs through lack of cardio health and extra weight on the chest area. My figures refer to deaths, not hospitalisations and whether you like it or not, a disproportionate number of deaths is occurring among the obese. 28% of the population are obese, 38.5% of the dead are obese. Can't ignore that. Obesity might not be the sole reason, but you can't argue that it doesn't contribute.

[beninho]

An analysis of 3,883 Covid-19 patients admitted to 229 critical care units in England, Wales and Northern Ireland up to Thursday has been published by the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre.

Of these patients, 871 have died, 818 have been discharged, and 2,194 were last reported as still receiving critical care.

The average age of the patients was 59.8 years. Some 72.5% were male, and 27.5% female. Some 66.4% were white, 14.4% Asian, 11.9% black, and 1.3% of mixed race.

Nearly three-quarters of the patients had a body mass index higher than the recommended healthy level of 18.5 to 25. Some 35% had a BMI of 25 to 30 - the overweight range. And 38.5% had a BMI over more than 30 - putting them in the obese range.
93.2% had previously been able to live without assistance in daily activities. Only 6.7% previously needed some assistance, and just three needed total assistance.
Focusing on the 1,053 patients who needed advanced respiratory support, the average age on admission was 61.9 years. 73% were male, 27% female. Out of this group, 66.3% died, and 33.7% are alive.
Examining the final outcome for patients admitted to critical care, for the 133 aged 16-39, 76.7% were discharged alive, and 23.3% died. For the 484 aged 60-69, 43.6% were discharged alive, and 56.4% died. For the 434 aged 70-79, 31.3% were discharged alive, and 68.7% died. And for the 107 aged over 80, 27.1% were discharged alive, and 72.9% died.
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[super_realist]

An analysis of 3,883 Covid-19 patients admitted to 229 critical care units in England, Wales and Northern Ireland up to Thursday has been published by the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre.

Of these patients, 871 have died, 818 have been discharged, and 2,194 were last reported as still receiving critical care.

The average age of the patients was 59.8 years. Some 72.5% were male, and 27.5% female. Some 66.4% were white, 14.4% Asian, 11.9% black, and 1.3% of mixed race.

Nearly three-quarters of the patients had a body mass index higher than the recommended healthy level of 18.5 to 25. Some 35% had a BMI of 25 to 30 - the overweight range. And 38.5% had a BMI over more than 30 - putting them in the obese range.
93.2% had previously been able to live without assistance in daily activities. Only 6.7% previously needed some assistance, and just three needed total assistance.
Focusing on the 1,053 patients who needed advanced respiratory support, the average age on admission was 61.9 years. 73% were male, 27% female. Out of this group, 66.3% died, and 33.7% are alive.
Examining the final outcome for patients admitted to critical care, for the 133 aged 16-39, 76.7% were discharged alive, and 23.3% died. For the 484 aged 60-69, 43.6% were discharged alive, and 56.4% died. For the 434 aged 70-79, 31.3% were discharged alive, and 68.7% died. And for the 107 aged over 80, 27.1% were discharged alive, and 72.9% died.
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As opposed to "discharged dead" More quality journalism from the BBC , also their ethnicity split of those admitted isn't even close to adding up to 100%.

I'll admit I was wrong about it being deaths and not ICU admissions, however I was still correct about the disproportionate effect this is having on the obese and overweight. 63% of the UK is overweight, yet they are claiming nearly 75% of those admitted were overweight. Pretty damning.

[beninho]

Just showing the figures you are using for your arguments.

I would guess the other not mentioned ethnic percentage would come under other. Though probably feel they didn't need to state that.

[super_realist]

Just showing the figures you are using for your arguments.

Fine, I'm happy to admit I got it wrong whether they are dead, but I'm not wrong on the figures, as discussed in the edit above.

[navyblueshorts]

Of course it won't change overnight, but if other countries in Europe aren't anywhere near as obese as we are in the UK then why can't we do anything about it? Finland used to be massively fat, now it's 8% less than the UK.

I don't think it's that significant that your perception of "younger" people out in lycra is a more common sight. When I was a kid I was out the door in the morning and didn't come back until it was tea time. When do you ever see kids outside these days? Very, very rarely. So these "young" people are probably not doing much more than making up the time they didn't spend outdoors when they were younger. Will this affect obesity? Not if we continue to have the same amount of terrible fast food places and generally bad food for sale everywhere. The diet is probably the biggest issue in the UK, rather than lack of exercise, although that is also very low.

Also if you look around the "young" people of today I still see a staggering amount of them in an absolutely shocking state. There might be more "younger" people being more active these days, but I still don't think they're anything close to the majority.

I didn't say younger people in lycra; this is more the middle aged - cyclists etc. Younger generation drinking less is more what I meant.

[navyblueshorts]

300,000,34,974,000 tests carried out.

God, Priti Patel is awful. Remember when people laughed at Dianne Abbott for getting her figures wrong. Let's hope this stays with Patel and she also becomes a laughing stock.

She was pretty bad - but her first time for that press briefing. I don't like her at all, and I don't think that'll change even if she gets better at those. She certainly shouldn't be Home Sec after her 'mistakes' in the past.

[navyblueshorts]

Which is very worrying. But, as a country we backed brexit, so have a large number supporting hanging, really wouldn't surprise me.

It's only worrying if you're against it, you seem under the impression that your own morality is the only right way. We have a large number of Labour voters so yeah.

Do you think hanging should be brought back?

I'm not against the reintroduction of capital punishment.

Ah. And I thought you might have been better than that...shame.

[navyblueshorts]

I think you’re waffling. It was you who presented figures of the percentage obese of those hospitalised, when in fact it was (more or less) irrelevant.

But we can easily agree that far too many are obese and that it can’t be healthy. But it’s not entirely the same discussion.

And if other health issues (ie heart problems etc.) are due to obesity, it doesn’t make obesity an underlying health issue, especially when the numbers do not support it. (If it was, 85-90% of those hospitalised would be obese, not 70-75%.) It would be the same as saying gender is an underlying health issue for breast cancer.

Yes, it does. High BMI->higher % chance of heart issue->higher % chance of Covid-19 complications.

[Be_the_ball]

A Scottish friend of mine once quipped "it is never difficult to distinguish between a Scotsman and a ray of sunshine". So here's some funnies, happy Easter all
P

[Be_the_ball]

[Be_the_ball]

[dynamark]

So what we are saying is if you are male over 61 and overweight you are doomed.
I get all the points mentioned in particular SR and general health and weight issues but a bit like hanging do you really think any politician is going to turn up at the briefing and say 'anyone obese is not going to be allowed into hospital'
Annoys me intensely that smokers even get healthcare FOC and if you happen to go to a hospital for any reason just take a look around you and survey the scene.here in Leicester we have a very high ethnic pop and for whatever reasons(may be genes) they have a huge impact on health services but it comes down to weight, lack of exercise ,culture,family structures religion, even tradition .
We are going to need some brave politicians to point out some serious changes that need to take place

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