Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[dynamark]

First topic message reminder :

I suppose it sort of makes sense with the Dyson effort because they just have to switch to blow.
Hope it works.
The self employed will have to adjust in future and get a bit closer to the NI and paye system.It has always been a bit unwritten that you can limit your contributions somewhat as self employed in the building trade and others but a big part of the economy. Again this may close a few gaps

[super_realist]

So what we are saying is if you are male over 61 and overweight you are doomed.
I get all the points mentioned in particular SR and general health and weight issues but a bit like hanging do you really think any politician is going to turn up at the briefing and say 'anyone obese is not going to be allowed into hospital'
Annoys me intensely that smokers even get healthcare FOC and  if you happen to go to a hospital for any reason just take a look around you and survey the scene.here in Leicester we have a very high ethnic pop and for whatever reasons(may be genes) they have a huge impact on health services but it comes down to weight, lack of exercise ,culture,family structures religion, even tradition .
We are going to need some brave politicians to point out some serious changes that need to take place

No one is suggesting that fat people are turned away, but it would be good for once if the government actually acknowledged  the lifestyle choices of the UK for the strain it puts on the NHS, not just in Coronavirus but in general. Diabetes is already a massive strain before you even bring into play cardiac issues and cancers associated with being overweight.

Far too much these days people are excused for being obese as if it isn't their own choices which have put them there.

There is no real excuse for obesity, or even being overweight. We have access to more information, more easily now than at any point in history, whilst it has been proven time and again that eating healthily isn't expensive. Just as we do with cigarettes, we should be taxing this terrible food out of existence and treating it as a demerit good. We also have more free time than ever before.

[BlueCoverman]

300,000,34,974,000 tests carried out.

God, Priti Patel is awful. Remember when people laughed at Dianne Abbott for getting her figures wrong. Let's hope this stays with Patel and she also becomes a laughing stock.

Oi leave my MP alone!

My dear old Dad was diagnosed with dementia in 2008 aged 80 and we lost him in 2015. Terrible disease, wouldn't wish it on anyone. The family looked after him at home for the first four years, Mum was his main carer until his illness deteriorated to the point where he needed professional nursing care. They were still able to go out in the early stages, Mum would drive obviously. One Saturday night she was getting them ready to go out and Dad was at the stage in his illness where he would keep on repeating himself. "Well what are we doing tonight Kitty, where are we going tonight?" he asked. "We are going to a Conservative Party dinner and Priti Patel is going to speak to us" Mum replied. Mum answered the same question a couple more times in the next ten minutes and then got a little exasperated when the question was asked again. It was a black-tie event so she was trying to get herself ready and get Dad's dinner suit on him and the clock was ticking. "I've told you John, we are going to a Conservative Party dinner and Priti Patel is going to speak to us. You know Priti Patel, she's our MP". "Yes, Yes, Yes" came the reply. "Of course I know her, I've slept with her lots of times"!

[Davie]

So 40% of the dead were obese? Then 60% weren't? Sounds like it's more dangerous to be not obese :-P

[JAS]

300,000,34,974,000 tests carried out.

God, Priti Patel is awful. Remember when people laughed at Dianne Abbott for getting her figures wrong. Let's hope this stays with Patel and she also becomes a laughing stock.

Oi leave my MP alone!

My dear old Dad was diagnosed with dementia in 2008 aged 80 and we lost him in 2015. Terrible disease, wouldn't wish it on anyone. The family looked after him at home for the first four years, Mum was his main carer until his illness deteriorated to the point where he needed professional nursing care. They were still able to go out in the early stages, Mum would drive obviously. One Saturday night she was getting them ready to go out and Dad was at the stage in his illness where he would keep on repeating himself. "Well what are we doing tonight Kitty, where are we going tonight?" he asked. "We are going to a Conservative Party dinner and Priti Patel is going to speak to us" Mum replied. Mum answered the same question a couple more times in the next ten minutes and then got a little exasperated when the question was asked again. It was a black-tie event so she was trying to get herself ready and get Dad's dinner suit on him and the clock was ticking. "I've told you John, we are going to a Conservative Party dinner and Priti Patel is going to speak to us. You know Priti Patel, she's our MP". "Yes, Yes, Yes" came the reply. "Of course I know her, I've slept with her lots of times"!    

You’re right BCM, it is a horrible horrible disease but every once in a while it does serve up a golden nugget of humour.

[JAS]

So 40% of the dead were obese? Then 60% weren't? Sounds like it's more dangerous to be not obese :-P

I’m sure I posted a week or two ago about my partners work colleagues son & daughter in law both on the front line and they were struck by the proportion of overweight people in the Covid beds, they reckoned 80-90% were obese. Anecdotal, obviously but over 2 separate hospitals

[I'm never wrong]

What I am struggling with is the utter stupidity of people. Two news stories make me annoyed, to say the least. First one, man arrested for disobeying not going out for the 6th time, and a family travelling from London to Torbay to go fishing. I think this is the biggest issue to overcome.

[navyblueshorts]

B_t_B: . Very good - like the Brucie one especially.

[navyblueshorts]

What I am struggling with is the utter stupidity of people. Two news stories make me annoyed, to say the least. First one, man arrested for disobeying not going out for the 6th time, and a family travelling from London to Torbay to go fishing. I think this is the biggest issue to overcome.

You're surprised? I'm surprised you're surprised.

[BlueCoverman]

300,000,34,974,000 tests carried out.

God, Priti Patel is awful. Remember when people laughed at Dianne Abbott for getting her figures wrong. Let's hope this stays with Patel and she also becomes a laughing stock.

Oi leave my MP alone!

My dear old Dad was diagnosed with dementia in 2008 aged 80 and we lost him in 2015. Terrible disease, wouldn't wish it on anyone. The family looked after him at home for the first four years, Mum was his main carer until his illness deteriorated to the point where he needed professional nursing care. They were still able to go out in the early stages, Mum would drive obviously. One Saturday night she was getting them ready to go out and Dad was at the stage in his illness where he would keep on repeating himself. "Well what are we doing tonight Kitty, where are we going tonight?" he asked. "We are going to a Conservative Party dinner and Priti Patel is going to speak to us" Mum replied. Mum answered the same question a couple more times in the next ten minutes and then got a little exasperated when the question was asked again. It was a black-tie event so she was trying to get herself ready and get Dad's dinner suit on him and the clock was ticking. "I've told you John, we are going to a Conservative Party dinner and Priti Patel is going to speak to us. You know Priti Patel, she's our MP". "Yes, Yes, Yes" came the reply. "Of course I know her, I've slept with her lots of times"!    

You’re right BCM, it is a horrible horrible disease but every once in a while it does serve up a golden nugget of humour.

That certainly was a golden nugget JAS, we still laugh about it now! I saw Priti in our local village pub on a Friday evening just before Christmas. Mum and Dad had met her occasionally during local Conservative Party functions, I was so tempted to go over and tell her that story! Fortunately I managed to restrain myself, but I'm sure it would have made her smile!

[JAS]

What I am struggling with is the utter stupidity of people. Two news stories make me annoyed, to say the least. First one, man arrested for disobeying not going out for the 6th time, and a family travelling from London to Torbay to go fishing. I think this is the biggest issue to overcome.

You're surprised? I'm surprised you're surprised.

Meanwhile, I’m even more surprised....

https://news.yahoo.com/sweden-found-solution-coronavirus-103003618.html?soc_src=hl-viewer&soc_trk=fb


All I would say is that there is no right and wrong in this and every country taking the same blanket response would end up with very different results. Different countries have different demographics. We have our approach and it is what it is. Sweden have theirs and it’s very different. Swedes are generally fitter, smoke less etc. Population density is also lower. Without even checking I’d also wager that their %age of GDP spent on healthcare is significantly greater than ours. The other bit of course is how far into the initial infection is action first taken. So horses for courses. No doubt there will be howls of...”why can’t we just do that?”...probably by obese smokers with no concept of understanding of social distancing.

[navyblueshorts]

Too many variables. One swallow does not a Summer make. Etc. Certainly, if it's definitively proved that Sweden's approach is a winner, what price all those panning UKG for their initial, alleged, 'herd immunity' approach?

[Soul Requiem]

The misuse of herd immunity is starting to grate now, the purpose of a lockdown is to slow the spread of the virus, reduce but potentially lengthen the peak and build a degree of immunity at the same time. It isn't a solution to the problem on its own, without immunisation we're highly likely to have a second wave which history shows can be more devastating than the first.

The refusal to accept social and cultural diferences between countries is also infuriating, people are using a little bit of knowledge and coming to completely wrong conclusions.

[super_realist]

So 40% of the dead were obese? Then 60% weren't? Sounds like it's more dangerous to be not obese :-P

What? If 40% were obese and 35% of the British public is obese then that's not a good figure and an indictment of being obese.

[beninho]

Speaking Radio Four's Today programme on Friday, chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance said: "Our aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not suppress it completely; also, because the vast majority of people get a mild illness, to build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission.

"At the same time we protect those who are most vulnerable to it. Those are the key things we need to do."

Are people believing the government roll back that herd immunity was not in the initial thinking?

But, as mentioned above, and I read earlier, herd immunity doesn't work properly without making vaccine. And, no one is sure, that you get immunity after having this virus.

My wife said she heard something , saying the government were surprised at how the country locked down so much, they thought more would go to schools after the list was announced and more places would stay open.

[beninho]

So 40% of the dead were obese? Then 60% weren't? Sounds like it's more dangerous to be not obese :-P

What? If 40% were obese and 35% of the British public is obese then that's not a good figure and an indictment of being obese.

28% for the uk according to the charts. Though it doesn't change the argument.

[super_realist]

So 40% of the dead were obese? Then 60% weren't? Sounds like it's more dangerous to be not obese :-P

What? If 40% were obese and 35% of the British public is obese then that's not a good figure and an indictment of being obese.

28% for the uk according to the charts. Though it doesn't change the argument.

Fair point, I got it wrong again, it's 35% that are over weight and 28% that are obese, so in terms of Davies figure it's even worse to be obese. I'm amazed that anyone would need a global pandemic to do something about obesity.

[Davie]

Someone has clearly missed what was, admittedly a pretty lame, attempt at humour

[I'm never wrong]

What I am struggling with is the utter stupidity of people. Two news stories make me annoyed, to say the least. First one, man arrested for disobeying not going out for the 6th time, and a family travelling from London to Torbay to go fishing. I think this is the biggest issue to overcome.

You're surprised? I'm surprised you're surprised.

Not so much people are disobeying staying in etc, but the lengths some people will go.

[super_realist]

Someone has clearly missed what was, admittedly a pretty lame, attempt at humour

Sorry Davie, very hard to tell a joke when it's written down in such a way.

[Davie]

Yes it's very hard to spot a joke (despite emoticons) when you are so bloody obsessed about a subject

[navyblueshorts]

Speaking Radio Four's Today programme on Friday, chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance said: "Our aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not suppress it completely; also, because the vast majority of people get a mild illness, to build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission.

"At the same time we protect those who are most vulnerable to it. Those are the key things we need to do."

Are people believing the government roll back that herd immunity was not in the initial thinking?  

But, as mentioned above, and I read earlier, herd immunity doesn't work properly without making vaccine. And, no one is sure, that you get immunity after having this virus.

My wife said she heard something , saying the government were surprised at how the country locked down so much, they thought more would go to schools after the list was announced and more places would stay open.

Of course it was a part of the solution. It's a natural corollary of a pandemic. No-one said it wasn't mentioned somewhere along the line in initial UKG discussions.

[JAS]

Speaking Radio Four's Today programme on Friday, chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance said: "Our aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not suppress it completely; also, because the vast majority of people get a mild illness, to build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission.

"At the same time we protect those who are most vulnerable to it. Those are the key things we need to do."

Are people believing the government roll back that herd immunity was not in the initial thinking?  

But, as mentioned above, and I read earlier, herd immunity doesn't work properly without making vaccine. And, no one is sure, that you get immunity after having this virus.

My wife said she heard something , saying the government were surprised at how the country locked down so much, they thought more would go to schools after the list was announced and more places would stay open.

Of course it was a part of the solution. It's a natural corollary of a pandemic. No-one said it wasn't mentioned somewhere along the line in initial UKG discussions.

I think there is a bit of a misconception/misassociation to think that a herd immunity approach is a far right wing “leave it to the market/survival of the fittest”. It does have some merit in the right kind of demographics. Early on our Govt clearly considered it and then thought better of it based on the scientific advice and factoring in our demographics decided to take a different approach. The only thing that we may have got wrong is the length of time we wrestled with the options before settling on our strategy. The fact is most governments are quite rightly deferring (kind of outsourcing) their strategy to scientists/specialists who you would expect have a better appreciation/knowledge of epidemics/pandemics. Having said that we spent the noughties listening to free market neoliberal economists telling us how wonderful the global market economy was. In a sense, for an elite few they were spot on. The knock on effect of that though is that for most of us, we now have perhaps a little less trust in so called experts.

[beninho]

It was more then mentioned, it was stated as what they would do. It was all about wash your hands and social distancing. A few days later they backtracked and went full lock down.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/03/matt-hancock-government-policy-herd-immunity-community-surveillance-covid-19

[beninho]

Speaking Radio Four's Today programme on Friday, chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance said: "Our aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not suppress it completely; also, because the vast majority of people get a mild illness, to build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission.

"At the same time we protect those who are most vulnerable to it. Those are the key things we need to do."

Are people believing the government roll back that herd immunity was not in the initial thinking?  

But, as mentioned above, and I read earlier, herd immunity doesn't work properly without making vaccine. And, no one is sure, that you get immunity after having this virus.

My wife said she heard something , saying the government were surprised at how the country locked down so much, they thought more would go to schools after the list was announced and more places would stay open.

Of course it was a part of the solution. It's a natural corollary of a pandemic. No-one said it wasn't mentioned somewhere along the line in initial UKG discussions.

I think there is a bit of a misconception/misassociation to think that a herd immunity approach is a far right wing “leave it to the market/survival of the fittest”. It does have some merit in the right kind of demographics. Early on our Govt clearly considered it and then thought better of it based on the scientific advice and factoring in our demographics decided to take a different approach. The only thing that we may have got wrong is the length of time we wrestled with the options before settling on our strategy. The fact is most governments are quite rightly deferring (kind of outsourcing) their strategy to scientists/specialists who you would expect have a better appreciation/knowledge of epidemics/pandemics. Having said that we spent the noughties listening to free market neoliberal economists telling us how wonderful the global market economy was. In a sense, for an elite few they were spot on. The knock on effect of that though is that for most of us, we now have perhaps a little less trust in so called experts.

A little less trust, only in 2016, Gove was declaring everyone had enough of experts and were sick of them. Not a good look now.

[Soul Requiem]

It was more then mentioned, it was stated as what they would do. It was all about wash your hands and social distancing. A few days later they backtracked and went full lock down.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/03/matt-hancock-government-policy-herd-immunity-community-surveillance-covid-19

No they didn't backtrack they went on to the next phase of the plan, things evolve they dont standstill.

[dynamark]

Been giving some thought to what may be first measures in the unlock if you like.-bearing in mind large parts of the economy are still at it and others are non existant.
So we would still need to keep public transport use down to a minimum . A lot of manufacture and construction could get going with some measures in place .Office could get going again maybe limited hours
and strict measures in the workplace.Nursery schools probably yes .Older age kids maybe again limited hours perhaps drop the breaks and do say 4 hours straight.We can all keep to the supermarket/pavement rules for months if needed . Pubs theatre sports a no .Restuarants maybe limited use cant imagine them being too popular.Golf yes with some rules in place.Distancing screens masks can be in place for as long as needed.No handshakes and don't kiss the girls! Very vulnerable groups stay as now sadly but that will help.It will be an interesting balance and the politicians will have to make the call

[super_realist]

No point thinking about that for a while yet, though I'd really appreciate if the hairdressers went back to work.

[McLaren]

Good article on immunity and covid 19.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/opinion/coronavirus-immunity.html

[super_realist]

Good article on immunity and covid 19.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/opinion/coronavirus-immunity.html

I gave up when the article felt it had to point out where the Faroe Islands were.

[beninho]

Good article on immunity and covid 19.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/opinion/coronavirus-immunity.html

I gave up when the article felt it had to point out where the Faroe Islands were.

Scandinavia?

[super_realist]

Good article on immunity and covid 19.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/opinion/coronavirus-immunity.html

I gave up when the article felt it had to point out where the Faroe Islands were.

Scandinavia?

Very good Ben.

[navyblueshorts]

It was more then mentioned, it was stated as what they would do. It was all about wash your hands and social distancing. A few days later they backtracked and went full lock down.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/03/matt-hancock-government-policy-herd-immunity-community-surveillance-covid-19

No, it was not, and it does not confirm that in the article you cited.

[beninho]

It was more then mentioned, it was stated as what they would do. It was all about wash your hands and social distancing. A few days later they backtracked and went full lock down.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/03/matt-hancock-government-policy-herd-immunity-community-surveillance-covid-19

No, it was not, and it does not confirm that in the article you cited.

I was commenting on the quote from earlier from Vallenve(?) When he said the aim is to build up a herd immunity.

[navyblueshorts]

It was more then mentioned, it was stated as what they would do. It was all about wash your hands and social distancing. A few days later they backtracked and went full lock down.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/03/matt-hancock-government-policy-herd-immunity-community-surveillance-covid-19

No, it was not, and it does not confirm that in the article you cited.

I was commenting on the quote from earlier from Vallenve(?) When he said the aim is to build up a herd immunity.

A long way between stating that was an avowed UKG policy in Feb/early-March and acknowledging that, in the long run, herd immunity is one way out of this.

[beninho]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/coronavirus-science-chief-defends-uk-measures-criticism-herd-immunity

It was 13th March, they were making these statements. So 2 days after liverpool atletico and the week before Cheltenham.

[super_realist]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/coronavirus-science-chief-defends-uk-measures-criticism-herd-immunity

It was 13th March, they were making these statements.  So 2 days after liverpool atletico and the week before Cheltenham.  

Why are you still going on about this? I get criticism for going on about fat people but you can't let this go. Even if it was an initial plan, it was never mentioned for everyone to get it at the same time as far as I understand.

[JAS]

It was more then mentioned, it was stated as what they would do. It was all about wash your hands and social distancing. A few days later they backtracked and went full lock down.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/03/matt-hancock-government-policy-herd-immunity-community-surveillance-covid-19

No they didn't backtrack they went on to the next phase of the plan, things evolve they dont standstill.

Got to say as well Ben, we haven’t gone on full lockdown, the definition of “essential workers” was left (perhaps deliberately who knows) wishy washy meaning that loads of business owners browbeat workers into commuting & working in a not socially distant way while the media and social media demonised the odd idiot or 2 that went to their 2nd home or stopped for a seat at a park bench.

[beninho]

As I mentioned, my wife saw something, where the government thought, that maybe 1m children would stay in school. I think that there are a lot less then that. The country seems to have taken it further, then even the government thought it would go.

I do think restarting the economy, will purely be down to the people, rather then what the government may want.

[beninho]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/coronavirus-science-chief-defends-uk-measures-criticism-herd-immunity

It was 13th March, they were making these statements.  So 2 days after liverpool atletico and the week before Cheltenham.  

Why are you still going on about this? I get criticism for going on about fat people but you can't let this go. Even if it was an initial plan, it was never mentioned for everyone to get it at the same time as far as I understand.

No o e is saying the plan was for everyone to get it at the same time that's probably impossible.

[beninho]

At what point would you go back to work? Go to a restaurant? Or a pub?

[super_realist]

At what point would you go back to work? Go to a restaurant? Or a pub?

At the point where new deaths and infections are pretty minimal, i. e fewer than 100 of each a day with a downward trend that's been going on for a couple of weeks.

[beninho]

At what point would you go back to work? Go to a restaurant? Or a pub?

At the point where new deaths and infections are pretty minimal, i. e fewer than 100 of each a day with a downward trend that's been going on for a couple of weeks.

And if it goes back up as more people return or go out, will you request to work at home again?

Separately, I think companies will realise people can work at home more then they though previously

[super_realist]

At what point would you go back to work? Go to a restaurant? Or a pub?

At the point where new deaths and infections are pretty minimal, i. e fewer than 100 of each a day with a downward trend that's been going on for a couple of weeks.

And if it goes back up as more people return or go out, will you request to work at home again?

Separately, I think companies will realise people can work at home more then they though previously

I'd be quite happy to work more from home. I think we can expect there to be a rise/fall in things for a long time. Figures are bound to fluctuate. I don't think it's possible we could right back to zero and maintain that, but hopefully by then the virus will be getting weaker and less virulent.

The problem with working from home is the potential lack of productivity and lack of face to face contact. I don't think it's the best way for many companies to do business and doesn't work for every employee. It could result in smaller offices, but I think you need some sort of weekly presence in an office.

[beninho]

I could definitely do a day at week at home. Just, maybe not with both kids in the house!

[navyblueshorts]

As I mentioned, my wife saw something, where the government thought, that maybe 1m children would stay in school. I think that there are a lot less then that.   The country seems to have taken it further, then even the government thought it would go.

I do think restarting the economy, will purely be down to the people, rather then what the government may want.

If this ever turned out to be true, me and mine are off. Would be the ultimate demonstration of stupidity. Still, with the average modern day, social media addicted, attention-span-of-a-fruit-fly pillock, what do I expect?

[beninho]

As I mentioned, my wife saw something, where the government thought, that maybe 1m children would stay in school. I think that there are a lot less then that.   The country seems to have taken it further, then even the government thought it would go.

I do think restarting the economy, will purely be down to the people, rather then what the government may want.

If this ever turned out to be true, me and mine are off. Would be the ultimate demonstration of stupidity. Still, with the average modern day, social media addicted, attention-span-of-a-fruit-fly pillock, what do I expect?

People drive the economy, not the other way round. The government need the economy, they may, want people back to work earlier then people may feel ready. This will all be on the people rather then anyone else. People go back and it all spikes again, some will panic again.

Anyway, this sh%t will go for ages. Think we need a thread of pictures of our golf clubs somewhere in the house.

[navyblueshorts]

It was more then mentioned, it was stated as what they would do. It was all about wash your hands and social distancing. A few days later they backtracked and went full lock down.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/03/matt-hancock-government-policy-herd-immunity-community-surveillance-covid-19

Have to laugh. This article you posted, Ben, mentions this 'NHSX' app that Costello says is necessary re. track and trace. I'm sat here listening to the BBC right now, listening to how people are b!tching about data and privacy etc. FFS!
Not surprised - bit of dichotomy for people isn't it? B!tch at UKG, or accept that this sort of thing a la South Korea etc comes w/ issues. Almost funny.

[kwinigolfer]

A stat to warm the cockles of super's heart:
In our State, just 615K population, we are seeing a sustained run of days with less than a 5% increase in "positive" tests.

And there's been a lot of publicity about associated demographic and underlying health conditions; the usual suspects including obesity, age, high bp, heart issues, diabetics, etc, many of which are somewhat associated with smoking as collateral damage.
In the past year, the documented increase in smoking cessation programme applications has risen, in person by 41%, on-line by 160%. Lots of contributory factors in play but one of them is undoubtedly being sh1t scared of the COVID curse.

People getting the message at last.

[beninho]

What is it with politician's unable to read numbers, after Priti we now have Donald from Washington.

[kwinigolfer]

Donald from Washington is innumerate and an incorrigible liar.
What's Priti's excuse?

It's about time she and her cohorts learned to count up to their 100,000 (tests) a day as the UK death rate is on track to be worse than any other country.
From 3,000 miles away there's no sense that anyone's running the SS GB & NI - it seemed inconceivable to me that whoever-it-was a month ago suggested that anything fewer than 20,000 UK deaths should be considered a success. They're on track to go steaming by that number so who should be considered a failure?

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