Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[dynamark]

First topic message reminder :

I suppose it sort of makes sense with the Dyson effort because they just have to switch to blow.
Hope it works.
The self employed will have to adjust in future and get a bit closer to the NI and paye system.It has always been a bit unwritten that you can limit your contributions somewhat as self employed in the building trade and others but a big part of the economy. Again this may close a few gaps

[super_realist]

Does it fill anyone with a sense of pride that we are not as bad off as the French or Italians but still have a death rate nearly 3 times our closest neighbor both geographically and culturally, Ireland?

Mac how on earth did you pass an MSc when you use post hoc rationalisation to prove your point? You are not taking into account population density, tourism, transport networks, living conditions ( housing types), health, social conditions, general cultural behaviour etc.
Every single time you make an argument for anything you always look from one point of view, you never seem capable of considering why these figures might be different in other countries , you seem to start of with an opinion and attempt to lead the evidence again showing how dishonest and unscientific you are.

[Soul Requiem]

Does it fill anyone with a sense of pride that we are not as bad off as the French or Italians but still have a death rate nearly 3 times our closest neighbor both geographically and culturally, Ireland?

You're comparing an apple with an orange there, mentioned this elsewhere but the UK has 14 of the 100 busiest airports in Europe compared to just one for Ireland so a silent killer that relies on human transportation will affect the busier country far worse in the initial stages. That's backed up by the effect it has had on France, Italy, Spain and the USA.

[beninho]

I wouldn't trust any countries figures. It's all about the deaths, as was mentioned by Soul.

I did see that isn't it a coincidence that Japan had an influx after the Olympics was cancelled.

I've been trying to find similar figures for Germany, death rate last year was 11.6 which incidentally is very high within Europe but can't find the numbers for this year. There will be a fair amount of collateral damage outside of the direct Covid-19 deaths but an increase of upwards of 60% when you take them out seems high.

Germany has an ageing population, I think I've read that before.

Guess we also have to look at the potential knock on of deaths Indirectly caused, people who didn't or couldn't get an ambulance or to hospital. Maybe,not many but I guess there will be some. Or just people who didn't want to bother the nhs.

[super_realist]

Mac Canada and the US are neighbours and very culturally similar yet look at the disparity, look at Belgium and Netherlands and Norway and Sweden. Those are all countries which are neighbours but have very different stats despite close cultural ties. Don't you think there is more to it than geography and culture?

[dynamark]

Mac the Irish are self isolating in normal life.Very rural in large parts.
Each country has its own contributory factors .I did read an interesting article trying to trace our first case incoming fire and could have been a guy who had spent time in a ski resort called Ishgl Austria where it was international party time in a busy bar every night.This village had a population of around 1500 and approx. 1000 have been positive.Very close small community with lots f in and out visitors.What you could describe as a transmission hub.

[super_realist]

Mac the Irish are self isolating in normal life.Very rural in large parts.
Each country has its own contributory factors .I did read an interesting article trying to trace our first case incoming fire and could have been a guy who had spent time in a ski resort called Ishgl Austria where it was international party time in a busy bar every night.This village had a population of around 1500 and approx. 1000 have been positive.Very close small community with lots f in and out visitors.What you could describe as a transmission hub.

Maybe the fondness for potatoes is protecting them against the virus.

[dynamark]

Ben good work with the homeless.We had to get an injunction yesterday on a tenant who was sneezing on tissues and posting through neighbours letterbox( he was nuts )
Some numbers today talking about 3000 or so extra deaths in a week extra to anticipated that were not C19. Where would they be from .Maybe postponed surgery,stress related strokes,not calling ambulances(that would be top of my list),not getting to surgery.
Gives the experts another strand to the equation that I would not want to be looking at.When does the associated damage balance the virus damage.Not a good place for us to be.

[dynamark]

SR it may be the Guinness.
I can imagine Paddy this time next year 'that was a right bad winter we had last year don't you know it was we don't want that agin'

[navyblueshorts]

It's not that they're being ignored, it's that hospital deaths are the most easy to get reliable information on.
It's also very easy with care home residents to confuse dying with Coronavirus and dying of coronavirus

I don't think that's relevant in the current situation; C-19 is a direct cause, even if it's just exacerbating COPD or CHD.

[navyblueshorts]

Yeah, that's essentially pulled from Johns Hopkins data (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality), but ask your self this: why is it that the UK and all those other 'first world' Nations, w/ generally excellent, well established health care systems appear to be at the top of the table for mortality, however they're measured? Simply pillorying UKG is simplistic and undoubtedly wide of the mark as to actual reasons. Then again, so many love simplistic, don't they?

In this case I do like the simple. Deaths per capita only relies on the death being recorded as covid as opposed to any calculation where you have to work out how testing rates also effect the numbers.

I assume you are suggesting that other countries have not been as honest about what is recorded as a covid death while the UK has been very transparent, and therefore that is why it is high on the deaths/million table. Could be, but look how the UK compares to countries that you probably trust.


UK 167 deaths per Million
Ireland 74
USA  71 (and that is with the idiocy of Trump inflicted on the situation)
Portugal 56
Denmark 49
Austria 43
Germany 38
Norway 25
Canada 21
(World average 15.5)
Finland 11
Poland 7
S. Korea 4
Australia 2
New Zealand 2


England 183
Wales 122
Scotland 106
NI 63


It would appear that it doesn't have to be as dire as the UK has made it. There are factors like having many hubs of international travel like the UK does, or general health of the population but even considering those factors are you not curious as to why the UK is getting hit so hard?


Also the UK breakdown is interesting given the different degrees to which healthcare is devolved.




For Super, look at previous posts between myself and Navy. We have already covered those countries.

Did you wilfully ignore, Belgium, Italy, France, Spain etc?

It doesn't matter; there are too many variables and you're trying to draw conclusions from an incomplete data set. You're also, I suggest, trying to fit data to your pre-conceived views on the Tories. Understandable, but not helpful, or scientific.

[navyblueshorts]

Does it fill anyone with a sense of pride that we are not as bad off as the French or Italians but still have a death rate nearly 3 times our closest neighbor both geographically and culturally, Ireland?

Why don't you, and everyone else, wait until this is 'over'? You're not in possession of a complete data set. It's also 'neighbour'...

[super_realist]

Does it fill anyone with a sense of pride that we are not as bad off as the French or Italians but still have a death rate nearly 3 times our closest neighbor both geographically and culturally, Ireland?

Why don't you, and everyone else, wait until this is 'over'? You're not in possession of a complete data set. It's also 'neighbour'...

He's completely omitted Swe/Nor, Can/USA and Bel/Ned and their massively differing death rates, but that would negate his argument.

[McLaren]

Navy

I am not trying to do anything of the sort.

The UK currently has a bad death rate. It is worth thinking about why. Lets hope it turns out to be a data collection thing in the end but the only time we can do something about it if it's a strategy thing is now. Why have needless deaths just to protect Tory image?

On a wider note I am baffled at why you are so keen to protect the tories on this? I get that if you say nothing now you have no failed analysis that can be brought up later but I am happy to stick my neck out and say the UKG are f***ing this up.

[McLaren]

Super

I haven't omitted anything. Go and check the original post you utter five knuckle shuffle stain. In fact I am sick of all the arse holes on here.

The link contains every country. If you bunch of morons think having one of the top ten death rates in the world is to be admired you are more idiotic than I ever imagined.

Super, in case your pea brain can't find the link in the original post. Here you go.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data

Be my guest. Read and weep and the dire state of the UKG covid response.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

I am not trying to do anything of the sort.

The UK currently has a bad death rate. It is worth thinking about why¹. Lets hope it turns out to be a data collection thing in the end but the only time we can do something about it if it's a strategy thing is now. Why have needless deaths just to protect Tory image?

On a wider note I am baffled at why you are so keen to protect the tories on this²? I get that if you say nothing now you have no failed analysis that can be brought up later but I am happy to stick my neck out and say the UKG are f***ing this up.

¹Definitely.
²I'm not. What I want is to see balanced consideration, regardless of who makes up UKG. What I'm seeing is political point scoring far too often.

[beninho]

Tell you what, a global pandem6us good for homeless figures. Stop evictions, increase maximum hb rates, watch the arse fall out of Airbnb. We had an agent offer us properties in Belsize park and regents park!

[super_realist]

Super

I haven't omitted anything. Go and check the original post you utter five knuckle shuffle stain. In fact I am sick of all the arse holes on here.

The link contains every country. If you bunch of morons think having one of the top ten death rates in the world is to be admired you are more idiotic than I ever imagined.

Super, in case your pea brain can't find the link in the original post. Here you go.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data

Be my guest. Read and weep and the dire state of the UKG covid response.

Mac, I've read the data, it's you being selective about it that is the issue. You made out UK was a unique case and that being a neighbour to Ireland was somehow a correlation that they had done something wrong in their response and that Ireland had done it better because all you looked at was death rates and you made a post hoc rationalisation.

You made a terrible, dishonest and selective argument and ignored every other reason as to why there are differences between countries because you are so desperate to blame the government.

No one has said that the UK's position is to be admired, you were the one who tried to paint it as being uniquely bad by selecting only arguments that could prove your point.
There isn't any country in the world who couldn't have done something better, but there's a whole lot more at play than government action, and much of it is outwith their control whereas those circumstances are bound to be different in a neighbouring country.

By the way, you don't need to be abusive just because your arguments have been shown to be naive and incomplete.

[Soul Requiem]

Navy

I am not trying to do anything of the sort.

The UK currently has a bad death rate. It is worth thinking about why. Lets hope it turns out to be a data collection thing in the end but the only time we can do something about it if it's a strategy thing is now. Why have needless deaths just to protect Tory image?

On a wider note I am baffled at why you are so keen to protect the tories on this? I get that if you say nothing now you have no failed analysis that can be brought up later but I am happy to stick my neck out and say the UKG are f***ing this up.

I'm happy stick my neck out and say you don't have a bloody clue what you're talking about as your manipulation of incomplete statistics show time and time again. Your insistence on ignoring any variable that doesn't suit your agenda is frankly ridiculous.

[kwinigolfer]

Navy

I am not trying to do anything of the sort.

The UK currently has a bad death rate. It is worth thinking about why. Lets hope it turns out to be a data collection thing in the end but the only time we can do something about it if it's a strategy thing is now. Why have needless deaths just to protect Tory image?

On a wider note I am baffled at why you are so keen to protect the tories on this? I get that if you say nothing now you have no failed analysis that can be brought up later but I am happy to stick my neck out and say the UKG are f***ing this up.

I'm happy stick my neck out and say you don't have a bloody clue what you're talking about as your manipulation of incomplete statistics show time and time again. Your insistence on ignoring any variable that doesn't suit your agenda is frankly ridiculous.

Say what you like but Mac is spot on that GB&NI are headed for the top of the table in terms of death per capita for anywhere outside Asia & Iran (where data can't be trusted).

[McLaren]

Super you are such a prick.

[Soul Requiem]

Super you are such a prick.

Do you want your toys back?

[super_realist]

Navy

I am not trying to do anything of the sort.

The UK currently has a bad death rate. It is worth thinking about why. Lets hope it turns out to be a data collection thing in the end but the only time we can do something about it if it's a strategy thing is now. Why have needless deaths just to protect Tory image?

On a wider note I am baffled at why you are so keen to protect the tories on this? I get that if you say nothing now you have no failed analysis that can be brought up later but I am happy to stick my neck out and say the UKG are f***ing this up.

I'm happy stick my neck out and say you don't have a bloody clue what you're talking about as your manipulation of incomplete statistics show time and time again. Your insistence on ignoring any variable that doesn't suit your agenda is frankly ridiculous.

Say what you like but Mac is spot on that GB&NI are headed for the top of the table in terms of death per capita for anywhere outside Asia & Iran (where data can't be trusted).

That wasn't his argument. He was arguing that our death rate is because of government indifference and inaction.

It might well be that the UK ends up with the worst figures ( seems unlikely though given that death rates would need to more than double to overtake Spain) but the point is that there is a great deal more at play than simply government policy and Mac sought to ignore and hide that.

[super_realist]

Super you are such a prick.

Wind your neck in Mac. I got a ban for calling someone a plank. You've gone a lot further than that.

[McLaren]

Kwini

It is madness, for some reason (demographic, health of population, UKG response..) the UK is getting hammered by this. Some of the worst deaths per capita in Europe, the world even)


Davie here is table that shows how badly the UK is doing when you rank the European countries based on death rate per million.



https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

So any chance of an apology from everyone who foolishly piled on to me.

You will see a full data set and the highlighted section shows I did not single out any particular factor.  I doubt very much whether any of those who failed to comprehend my post on this will have the intellectual honesty to offer that apology.

[beninho]

Belgium looks pretty high on per capita. Though we do look to still be going up while Spain, france are coming down.

[McLaren]

Super you are such a prick.

Do you want your toys back?

Do you want to take supers dick out of your mouth?

[beninho]

Navy

I am not trying to do anything of the sort.

The UK currently has a bad death rate. It is worth thinking about why. Lets hope it turns out to be a data collection thing in the end but the only time we can do something about it if it's a strategy thing is now. Why have needless deaths just to protect Tory image?

On a wider note I am baffled at why you are so keen to protect the tories on this? I get that if you say nothing now you have no failed analysis that can be brought up later but I am happy to stick my neck out and say the UKG are f***ing this up.

I'm happy stick my neck out and say you don't have a bloody clue what you're talking about as your manipulation of incomplete statistics show time and time again. Your insistence on ignoring any variable that doesn't suit your agenda is frankly ridiculous.

Say what you like but Mac is spot on that GB&NI are headed for the top of the table in terms of death per capita for anywhere outside Asia & Iran (where data can't be trusted).

That wasn't his argument. He was arguing that our death rate  is because of government indifference and inaction.

It might well be that the UK ends up with the worst figures ( seems unlikely though given that death rates would need to more than double to overtake Spain) but the point is that there is a great deal more at play than simply government policy and Mac sought to ignore and hide that.

But surely, it is based on government policy. Obviously how it will impact different people would be based on individual people. But government policy is definitely something that will be scrutinised.

[McLaren]

Ben

No, nothing to do with the government. What could the people who run the country actually be expected to do about it?

[kwinigolfer]

Navy

I am not trying to do anything of the sort.

The UK currently has a bad death rate. It is worth thinking about why. Lets hope it turns out to be a data collection thing in the end but the only time we can do something about it if it's a strategy thing is now. Why have needless deaths just to protect Tory image?

On a wider note I am baffled at why you are so keen to protect the tories on this? I get that if you say nothing now you have no failed analysis that can be brought up later but I am happy to stick my neck out and say the UKG are f***ing this up.

I'm happy stick my neck out and say you don't have a bloody clue what you're talking about as your manipulation of incomplete statistics show time and time again. Your insistence on ignoring any variable that doesn't suit your agenda is frankly ridiculous.

Say what you like but Mac is spot on that GB&NI are headed for the top of the table in terms of death per capita for anywhere outside Asia & Iran (where data can't be trusted).

That wasn't his argument. He was arguing that our death rate  is because of government indifference and inaction.

It might well be that the UK ends up with the worst figures ( seems unlikely though given that death rates would need to more than double to overtake Spain) but the point is that there is a great deal more at play than simply government policy and Mac sought to ignore and hide that.

I reckon that we'll give Spain a run for its money the way things are going. (Though ben is right about Belgium - good lord!)
Not really sure how one accounts for that if not for a delayed reaction and a consistently underfunded NHS, both of which seem to be government "policy" - same in the US of course.

[Soul Requiem]

Super you are such a prick.

Do you want your toys back?

Do you want to take supers dick out of your mouth?

You're a funny guy, imagine getting so riled up online because you're own perceived intelligence is nothing more than a fabrication.

[super_realist]

Navy

I am not trying to do anything of the sort.

The UK currently has a bad death rate. It is worth thinking about why. Lets hope it turns out to be a data collection thing in the end but the only time we can do something about it if it's a strategy thing is now. Why have needless deaths just to protect Tory image?

On a wider note I am baffled at why you are so keen to protect the tories on this? I get that if you say nothing now you have no failed analysis that can be brought up later but I am happy to stick my neck out and say the UKG are f***ing this up.

I'm happy stick my neck out and say you don't have a bloody clue what you're talking about as your manipulation of incomplete statistics show time and time again. Your insistence on ignoring any variable that doesn't suit your agenda is frankly ridiculous.

Say what you like but Mac is spot on that GB&NI are headed for the top of the table in terms of death per capita for anywhere outside Asia & Iran (where data can't be trusted).

That wasn't his argument. He was arguing that our death rate  is because of government indifference and inaction.

It might well be that the UK ends up with the worst figures ( seems unlikely though given that death rates would need to more than double to overtake Spain) but the point is that there is a great deal more at play than simply government policy and Mac sought to ignore and hide that.

But surely, it is based on government policy. Obviously how it will impact different people would be based on individual people. But government policy is definitely something that will be scrutinised.

Not how Mac was looking at it. He made a direct comparison with Ireland and because it is a neighbour and culturally similar that the difference must be down to government decisions without any consideration for all the other reasons that would make such a big difference such as population density which is 20% lower in Ireland, and age demographics where Ireland have fewer old people etc.
Plenty countries share a border and cultural similarities but widely different figures.

[super_realist]

Ben

No, nothing to do with the government. What could the people who run the country actually be expected to do about it?

Mac, instead of behaving like Owen Jones why won't you accept that every country is different and that there are many reasons, including government decisions which contribute to make the death rates of countries differ widely?

Population dynamics, urbanisation, transport, economics, business set ups, culture, infrastructure and many other factors all play massively important factors, and essentially explain why regions of the UK differ so widely and why England is so much worse than Wales, NI and Scotland.
One of the most clear things to see is that countries which have lower population density are affected far less seriously.

[kwinigolfer]

In better news, our "positive" tests only yielded 4 new cases yesterday, barely 0.5%, and only about 5% more over the past three days. Statistically improbable but great news for us.

[beninho]

Now, obviously there are differences between uk and Eire. But you do have to question why such a large difference.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/14/coronavirus-uk-ireland-delay

406 vs 12,000 is quite a vast difference.

[super_realist]

In better news, our "positive" tests only yielded 4 new cases yesterday, barely 0.5%, and only about 5% more over the past three days. Statistically improbable but great news for us.

One of the benefits of living somewhere so empty and so sparsely populated, I'd imagine Montana to be the same.

[super_realist]

Now, obviously there are differences between uk and Eire. But you do have to question why such a large difference.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/14/coronavirus-uk-ireland-delay

406 vs 12,000 is quite a vast difference.

Jesus, you can't compare straight numbers, that's why we use per capita.

The death rate per million in Ireland is almost exactly the same as that in NI.  (NI is 71 per million, Ireland is 80), so there's obviously something else other than government decisions which is causing a difference. If it was just government decisions then every region in the UK would have similar figures, but it varies drastically. Very interesting that NI and Ireland are broadly similar though and you can bet that Dublin and Belfast will be the most affected there as the most highly populated, just as in Scotland its Greater Glasgow. People are severely underestimating population dynamics.

[kwinigolfer]

In better news, our "positive" tests only yielded 4 new cases yesterday, barely 0.5%, and only about 5% more over the past three days. Statistically improbable but great news for us.

One of the benefits of living somewhere so empty and so sparsely populated, I'd imagine Montana to be the same.

It is, super, but we got off to a terrible start with multiple clusters in senior living, prisons and rehab facilities, but aggressive testing has done wonders. Which is why the GB Gov't needs those 100K tests a day.

[super_realist]

In better news, our "positive" tests only yielded 4 new cases yesterday, barely 0.5%, and only about 5% more over the past three days. Statistically improbable but great news for us.

One of the benefits of living somewhere so empty and so sparsely populated, I'd imagine Montana to be the same.

It is, super, but we got off to a terrible start with multiple clusters in senior living, prisons and rehab facilities, but aggressive testing has done wonders. Which is why the GB Gov't needs those 100K tests a day.

Agreed it would help, but there is so much more at play. The areas most badly affected of countries are where population distribution is most dense in most cases and the more of your country is urbanised the worse it seems to be.

[beninho]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/experts-divided-comparison-uk-ireland-coronavirus-record

If, doctors and professors are arguing the points between uk and Ireland, it just puts Mac and both SRs in good company.

Basically, look even people with far greater knowledge then you all, are arguing over the same points.

[skiddy]

The reality is the figures are even worse than appear when comparing UK and Ireland figures. Uk isn't including nursing home deaths, I think almost have of Irelands deaths have occurred in nursing homes.

Ireland locked down quicker after seeing what was happening in Europe while Boris as per usual, being the class clown and bragging about shaking hands with people in virus stricken hospitals.

The UK governments response was initially driven by herd immunity and didn't take the threat very seriously. As a result thousands of extra deaths. Very simple explanation! The governments response has been pathetic. The UK's elderly population have been subjected to a scientific experiment, and people are correct to be unhappy about this.

[super_realist]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/experts-divided-comparison-uk-ireland-coronavirus-record

If, doctors and professors are arguing the points between uk and Ireland, it just puts Mac and both SRs in good company.

Basically, look even people with far greater knowledge then you all, are arguing over the same points.

Its natural to compare, provided you acknowledge the reasons for the difference are not just policy related, and is probably helps to explain why Oireland and NI are so similar but why England is so different.

[super_realist]

The reality is the figures are even worse than appear when comparing UK and Ireland figures. Uk isn't including nursing home deaths, I think almost have of Irelands deaths have occurred in nursing homes.

Ireland locked down quicker after seeing what was happening in Europe while Boris as per usual, being the class clown and bragging about shaking hands with people in virus stricken hospitals.

The UK governments response was initially driven by herd immunity and didn't take the threat very seriously. As a result thousands of extra deaths. Very simple explanation! The governments response has been pathetic. The UK's elderly population have been subjected to a scientific experiment, and people are correct to be unhappy about this.

Yes, far too simple and makes no account of the differences in the countries. Exactly what the disagreements of the last hour have related to.

[skiddy]

Super

Its fairly clear that the UK government didn't react as quickly as they should, given everybody could see what was happening in Italy weeks in advance. It appears that this was due their initial notions on herd immunity to protect the economy for as long as possible.

I'm not sure what your opinion is on this? You think the government have done a good job based on the evidence currently available? Or everybody should just accept what currently happening because we can't definitively know if the government has done a good job.

Do you think government policy has minimised the death count, regardless of comparisons between countries? All the evidence indicates they haven't, even Boris's own paper was slating the government last week. Has an article every been written in the Daily Telegraph that hasn't fawned over Lord Boris before?

[McLaren]

Skiddy

You make a sound case and ask the pertinent questions but good luck getting through to this lot.

[super_realist]

Super

Its fairly clear that the UK government didn't react as quickly as they should, given everybody could see what was happening in Italy weeks in advance. It appears that this was due their initial notions on herd immunity to protect the economy for as long as possible.

I'm not sure what your opinion is on this? You think the government have done a good job based on the evidence currently available? Or everybody should just accept what currently happening because we can't definitively know if the government has done a good job.

Do you think government policy has minimised the death count, regardless of comparisons between countries? All the evidence indicates they haven't, even Boris's own paper was slating the government last week. Has an article every been written in the Daily Telegraph that hasn't fawned over Lord Boris before?

I don't think that anyone has ever suggested that things couldn't have been handled better and with more haste. There was all sorts of conflicting ideas about the best way forward at the time.

You need to take a wider look at the data before deciding whether the death rate could be significantly lower and we don't have access to all that yet, you also have to take into account the UNIQUE conditions and circumstances in every country and how these impact on the death rate.

[super_realist]

Skiddy

You make a sound case and ask the pertinent questions but good luck getting through to this lot.

Mac, you are being spectacularly dense. The government policy on the matter is only a part of the issue and I'm sure everyone agrees it could have been handled more quickly. If you can't see that you should really hand back your MSc because you aren't capable of thinking about an issue in anything wider than one line of questioning.

You tried to make a comparison between Ireland and the UK, which is fine if you take into account all the factors which contribute to the differing death rates in those countries (or any other neighbouring countries to one another) but you didn't. You went down one route and ignored all the other factors which play a part.  Ironically, you failed to notice that NI and Ireland have virtually the same death rate, which is something I would expect when taking into account population density and other demographic similarities rather than the massive density and urbanisation contrast in England which have increased the UK death rates as a whole. There's good reasons why London is the worst affected place in the UK, and you can't pin that all on Government decisions, only an oaf would do that.

[McLaren]

Super

What you fail to recognise is that I have the far superior skills of deduction and data interpretation. If you had realised this you would know how ridiculous your bleating on about other factors sounds.

[Soul Requiem]

Super

What you fail to recognise is that I have the far superior skills of deduction and data interpretation. If you had realised this you would know how ridiculous your bleating on about other factors sounds.

[super_realist]

Super

What you fail to recognise is that I have the far superior skills of deduction and data interpretation. If you had realised this you would know how ridiculous your bleating on about other factors sounds.

So you claim, and easy for you to assert, but when you choose to only display a selection of the data to make one point it shows that you aren't  considering other countries which are equally and more badly affected .
Following that you made an infantile and laughably naive comparison of the UK and Ireland (using their geographic locality and culturally similarity as it being a fair comparison)  as if was a slam dunk for your argument and that it negates all the other reasons as to why there would be such a big difference shows that you aren't as good at deduction and data interpretation as you think.

Why is it you haven't addressed why Northern Ireland and Ireland have such similar death rates? Mmm, is it because it could be down to much more than policy and that other factors might be more important than you previously gave them credit for? Clearly the issue with the high death rate in the UK lies in England, and notably that most of the cases are in London, a place with so many factors which would make it more likely to be affected in a pandemic than a sparsely populated, rural country like Ireland.  Why would you seek to make a comparison on such a transparently flawed premise?
Why do you think that the culturally and geographically similar US and Canada have such a difference?

[navyblueshorts]

Super

I haven't omitted anything. Go and check the original post you utter five knuckle shuffle stain. In fact I am sick of all the arse holes on here.

The link contains every country. If you bunch of morons think having one of the top ten death rates in the world is to be admired you are more idiotic than I ever imagined.

Super, in case your pea brain can't find the link in the original post. Here you go.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data

Be my guest. Read and weep and the dire state of the UKG covid response.

[Sponsored content]