Glasgow and Edinburgh ongoing banter thread 24 - Covid funtimes

[RDW]

First topic message reminder :

Previous gibberish

https://www.606v2.com/t69038p1050-glasgow-and-edinburgh-banter-thread-no-23-new-season-new-thread

Fixtures

Glasgow - none

Edinburgh - none

Scotland - none

[Hazel Sapling]

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/ashe-to-leave-glasgow-warriors

Adam Ashe and Charrlie Capps to leave Glasgow to pursue other interests.

Don't really know a great deal about Capps, other than he was on the bench for us last weekend. having not broken through at 23, maybe he sees a different career as a bigger priority.

Adam Ashe has been our great enigma. Seemed to have all the skills but could never stay fit and latterly never really looked like he really wanted it badly enough. Seemed to get more satisfaction from persuing his mindfulness agenda. Important stuff no doubt, but maybe not what he should have been focusing on if he really wanted to push on with his rugby career.

DW, for all of his smiling face and easy demeanour, certainly does seem to have the hard edge that all coaches need and even more so in the current climate, for cutting out the dead wood from his squad.

It might be odd given our limited resources in the BR, but I see this as a positive step by DW - setting out his stall early and shaping the squad in his image.  You're totally right BigGee, Ashe doesn't come across as somebody who is committed to pro sport and at 27 probably won't progress in the current set up.  It is a shame in a way, we don't produce many athletes with his abilities, but he has had lots of chances.  I hope this will free up some budget to bring somebody else into the BR mix.    

Ashe had the occasional year where he could put together 10 or so appearances and play effectively. Shame that the injuries got in the way of what should have been a good career.

Capps is a bit unusual and concerning after Matt Smith's retirement. Another young player who has called time even though he was good enough to bring in from Stade Nicois, a side aiming for Pro D2.

[EST]

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/ashe-to-leave-glasgow-warriors

Adam Ashe and Charrlie Capps to leave Glasgow to pursue other interests.

Don't really know a great deal about Capps, other than he was on the bench for us last weekend. having not broken through at 23, maybe he sees a different career as a bigger priority.

Adam Ashe has been our great enigma. Seemed to have all the skills but could never stay fit and latterly never really looked like he really wanted it badly enough. Seemed to get more satisfaction from persuing his mindfulness agenda. Important stuff no doubt, but maybe not what he should have been focusing on if he really wanted to push on with his rugby career.

DW, for all of his smiling face and easy demeanour, certainly does seem to have the hard edge that all coaches need and even more so in the current climate, for cutting out the dead wood from his squad.

It might be odd given our limited resources in the BR, but I see this as a positive step by DW - setting out his stall early and shaping the squad in his image.  You're totally right BigGee, Ashe doesn't come across as somebody who is committed to pro sport and at 27 probably won't progress in the current set up.  It is a shame in a way, we don't produce many athletes with his abilities, but he has had lots of chances.  I hope this will free up some budget to bring somebody else into the BR mix.    

Ashe had the occasional year where he could put together 10 or so appearances and play effectively. Shame that the injuries got in the way of what should have been a good career.

Capps is a bit unusual and concerning after Matt Smith's retirement. Another young player who has called time even though he was good enough to bring in from Stade Nicois, a side aiming for Pro D2.

There certainly have been points where I thought he could push on and establish himself - against Lyon away a couple of years ago he was really good, big hard carries and bagged himself a couple of tries - just didn't see it enough for whatever reason.

On Capps, I really hope its not another Matt Smith situation. There is a huge amount of competition for LH at Glasgow, and with Thornton at a similar age, hopefully it's something as simple as wanting to move on to try something different.

[BigGee]

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/kennedy-and-matthews-stay-with-warriors

A few more squad announcements from the Warriors.

Again, both of these plyers will likely be needed in the international window this autumn, when we will be giving up 3 hookers and 2 SHs to the international squads and that does not even include Niko, whom the Fijians may take, just because he is here and available.

There is going to be some pressure on Dobie during this period, who is likely to become our starting SH and may be able to put down a marker. It would not surprise me to see Baretto get a chance as well as a third option. It seems unlikely that the sevens are going to get going any time soon.

[BigGee]

Any of you Luvvies going to do a match thread for the semi final?

[NeilyBroon]

Decent looking squad, shiel and Chamberlain keep their places in the 23, back on the bench which for cockers is pretty bold. Pretty much as expected otherwise. They can definitely win if they bring their A game. Expect to see a wee bit of slog as this will be a win ugly or risk it kind of game. I'll say Edinburgh 14-10 Ulster

[NeilyBroon]

https://www.edinburghrugby.org/the-clubhouse/gilchrist-hits-150-as-scotland-stars-return-for-ulster-semi-final

[Hazel Sapling]

Had a quick go at a thread. Can add as needed

[RDW]

https://www.606v2.com/t69724-pro-14-semi-final-edinburgh-vs-ulster-5-september-2020?watch=topic

Hazel's thread.

[BigGee]

I see Robin Hislop ex Edinburgh LH prop who has been plying his trade in the Championship for the last few years has signed for Sarries for the rest of the season.

He was actually a decent player who was unlucky not to get a better chance at Edinburgh.

Ewan Ashman also getting some gsmd time for Sale atm

Both he and Henderson on the respective benches for Sale v Leicester this round.

[TJ]

Just had a look at the Worcester game - anyone else? Meatballs hair is something to behold

[RDW]

You may already know but he's doing it for charity. Not sure how long he's keeping it going - I hope not too long for his sake!

[RDW]

Just watched the Leinster game - Munster absolutely butchered that one. Their 10 had one of the worst goal kicking displays I've seen in a long time which made the difference in a close game.

Leinster are just so brutally effective though. If we do make it to the final we've got to take our chances as they don't come up often.

[bsando]

Well that’s encouraging for Edinburgh. Now it’s knock out rugby they’re only two games away from a maiden Pro14 title in theory. No team is invincible and if tonight’s result goes well I can see Edinburgh lifting their game for the final. Gotta win tonight though!

[RDW]

Findlay Christie got 15 minutes in the North v South game earlier. Hell of a game!

Says a lot if he's classed in the top 4 SHs in New Zealand right now.

[RDW]

Couldn't help but laugh at the Saracens team selection - their first choice pack full of world class players....and Tim Swinson!

[RDW]

Well thoughts turn to the Challenge Cup semi in a few weeks. It could be a good opportunity for us - I can't imagine Bordeaux are really going to give a crap about it with the league season started up again, plus no Randrandra to tear us to pieces anymore, and the rest of the teams are all beatable. Bristol are probably the toughest opposition but they're playing a ridiculous number of games in a short period just now, and will be eyeing a run to the AP final.

Definitely there for the taking - just need to learn how to win knock out games!

[RDW]

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/38088/with-every-try-i-score-i-honour-my-best-mate-who-died-stuart-hogg/

Good interview with Hogg - very honest.

[NeilyBroon]

Very good, it's been great to see him evolve over his career. I must admit I was very sceptical when he became captain and thought he didn't have the temperament but he's proven me wrong and seems to have settled into the role. I think we may see his best years over the next couple of seasons.

[bsando]

Couldn't help but laugh at the Saracens team selection - their first choice pack full of world class players....and Tim Swinson!

He's had a good run of form for them! Ready for another call up I think haha.

[NeilyBroon]

Couldn't help but laugh at the Saracens team selection - their first choice pack full of world class players....and Tim Swinson!

He's had a good run of form for them! Ready for another call up I think haha.

In fairness I think Glasgow would take him for the back row right now!

[RDW]

Couldn't help but laugh at the Saracens team selection - their first choice pack full of world class players....and Tim Swinson!

He's had a good run of form for them! Ready for another call up I think haha.

[RDW]

Very good, it's been great to see him evolve over his career. I must admit I was very sceptical when he became captain and thought he didn't have the temperament but he's proven me wrong and seems to have settled into the role. I think we may see his best years over the next couple of seasons.

Same - I would hope every decent rugby fan (not just Scottish) would love to see him finally get that Lions test cap. It's amazing how consistent his form has been the last few years. He was also able to quickly put those high profile mistakes earlier in the year behind him which shows a great mentality. His all round game is so good now, not just attacking play. Exeter is definitely the right place for him to be.

Also worth noting he said he's 100% confident Finn will be back for Scotland.

[bsando]

Findlay Christie got 15 minutes in the North v South game earlier. Hell of a game!

Says a lot if he's classed in the top 4 SHs in New Zealand right now.

Yep we've been discussing the possibility of a call up this October for Scotland on the international thread.

I also just want to add (because you mentioned the North vs South game), for years I have been blabbing to rugby fans about how backline players need to learn from AFL and have the skillset to take rugby balls above their heads in the air. In some cases the safer, traditional way of catching it to the chest is better (rain, windy weather etc) but it is ridiculous (to me anyway) that more international players are not using this technique. It is slowly becoming more common though, especially in NZ and Aus. This was a brilliant moment from that North vs South game that highlights it's deadly advantage in certain situations https://youtu.be/cvCi3ApHvJo?t=367

[RDW]

Findlay Christie got 15 minutes in the North v South game earlier. Hell of a game!

Says a lot if he's classed in the top 4 SHs in New Zealand right now.

Yep we've been discussing the possibility of a call up this October for Scotland on the international thread.

I also just want to add (because you mentioned the North vs South game), for years I have been blabbing to rugby fans about how backline players need to learn from AFL and have the skillset to take rugby balls above their heads in the air. In some cases the safer, traditional way of catching it to the chest is better (rain, windy weather etc) but it is ridiculous (to me anyway) that more international players are not using this technique. It is slowly becoming more common though, especially in NZ and Aus. This was a brilliant moment from that North vs South game that highlights it's deadly advantage in certain situations https://youtu.be/cvCi3ApHvJo?t=367

Yeah that was a stunning try.

Did you see the number 8 try and catch it AFL style then have to dive and grab it on the ground having fumbled it? That was very much the time to catch it in the bread basket!

[NeilyBroon]

Interestingly not been named in ABs squad though.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rugbypass.com/news/9-potential-test-debutants-named-in-first-all-blacks-squad-of-ian-fosters-reign/

[EST]

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but just watched the Racing highlights - Finn looks in good form. One charge down which led to a try, one bullet pass assist and then he got a dot himself.

[BigGee]

https://www.theoffsideline.com/adam-ashe-takes-early-glasgow-warriors-departure-in-his-stride/?v=79cba1185463

Adam Ashe gives his side of the story.

It was DW that binned him off it seems, despite being in contract, maybe they invoked an injury clause or he just agreed to move on gracefully.

Still fancies carry on as a pro, maybe abroad, though it is hard to see he would get to many takers with his injury record.

[Hazel Sapling]

Sounds like Wilson was up front about his plans and Ashe wants to focus on his business dealings.

Ashe should have been a far more influential player than he was and had a few small runs in the side that made him seem like a proper 6/8 option. If he can stay healthy, he has the talent to be a really useful player.

[EST]

Sounds like Wilson was up front about his plans and Ashe wants to focus on his business dealings.

Ashe should have been a far more influential player than he was and had a few small runs in the side that made him seem like a proper 6/8 option. If he can stay healthy, he has the talent to be a really useful player.

I wonder, from an employment law perspective, how easy it is to offload a player mid-way through a contract - you don't hear that happening very often? Glasgow must have paid him out you would assume, which means that DW really didn't want him there. Hope he gets a decent contract in Pro D2 and see where his career goes from there.

[BigGee]

It hss happened before in Scottish rugby, particularly with players with poor injury records.

There may have been something in his contract allowing a break clause on that basis, especially on a pkayer like AA who seems to have been permanently injured.

I don't imagine he left empty handed though and quite shrewdly they let furlough run the clock down before making the call!

[BigGee]

i suspect AA leaving will now free up a squad place for Bruce Flockhart as well.

DW probably told he could not have both, so made his call.

[EST]

Yeah, that's a good point - I honestly have no idea how many games AA has played this year, but it cant be many.

You're probably right about balancing the books, but I'm hoping Flockhart was nailed on for another contract and Ashe's wages are for another recruit - we are so light at BR. Regardless, hopefully we get the Flockhart announcement soon - big year for him and some of our other not-so-young-anymore players - I'm thinking of Nicol, Nairn and Kelly in particular.

[Hazel Sapling]

Paddy Kelly will be 25 this season, Nairn and Nicol will be 24. Nicol is still a baby by TH standards (something forgotten due to Lee, Furlong, Porter, Sinckler and Z Fagerson coming through in their late teens/early 20s), but agree on Nairn and Kelly.

It is a bit of now or never, particularly on the wing. Kelly is unfortunate that there is McDowall, Johnson, Horne, Grigg, Steyn and H Jones ahead of him (or 5 internationals and a highly touted youngster). Nairn has no excuse this season with Hughes, DTH and Jackson all leaving from the back three. There should be an opportunity for him to establish himself with so many internationals next season.

[funnyExiledScot]

Good to see 6 Edinburgh players in the Pro14 team of the year: Schoe, Gilchrist (Mr Invisible to those knowledgeable Glasgow fans), Mata, VDW, Duhan and Kinghorn.

Although still disappointed in the Ulster outcome, a semi-final with yet another 1872 in the bag and some strong showings in European rugby is progress, plus Cockers committed for another few years.

If the key players stay fit, the future looks pretty rosy.

[BigGee]

Good to see 6 Edinburgh players in the Pro14 team of the year: Schoe, Gilchrist (Mr Invisible Penalty Magnet to those knowledgeable Glasgow fans), Mata, VDW, Duhan and Kinghorn.

Although still disappointed in the Ulster outcome, a semi-final with yet another 1872 in the bag and some strong showings in European rugby is progress, plus Cockers committed for another few years.

If the key players stay fit, the future looks pretty rosy.

Fixed that for you!

[NeilyBroon]

Good to see 6 Edinburgh players in the Pro14 team of the year: Schoe, Gilchrist (Mr Invisible Penalty Magnet to those knowledgeable Glasgow fans), Mata, VDW, Duhan and Kinghorn.

Although still disappointed in the Ulster outcome, a semi-final with yet another 1872 in the bag and some strong showings in European rugby is progress, plus Cockers committed for another few years.

If the key players stay fit, the future looks pretty rosy.

Fixed that for you!

The name's glass, Mr invisible penalty glass

[EST]

Paddy Kelly will be 25 this season, Nairn and Nicol will be 24. Nicol is still a baby by TH standards (something forgotten due to Lee, Furlong, Porter, Sinckler and Z Fagerson coming through in their late teens/early 20s), but agree on Nairn and Kelly.

It is a bit of now or never, particularly on the wing. Kelly is unfortunate that there is McDowall, Johnson, Horne, Grigg, Steyn and H Jones ahead of him (or 5 internationals and a highly touted youngster). Nairn has no excuse this season with Hughes, DTH and Jackson all leaving from the back three. There should be an opportunity for him to establish himself with so many internationals next season.

I suppose i'm basing things on how good Nicol looked at U20 level, I expected/hoped to see more from him at this stage - he certainly looks like he has the physical tools and jnr pedigree to emulate the players you mention above. Like you say though, he still has time and will hopefully develop for when Zander inevitably gets lured away by a massive contract.

[BigGee]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/we-have-got-to-sharpen-ourselves-up-were-a-bit-frightened-about-upsetting-english-clubs-tait-scotland-scouting/

This is a good interview with Alan Tait about the difficulties of scouting for Scotland.

Unfortunately it looks as if the scouting network is going to become another casualty of Covid!

[RDW]

Id completely forgotten about McLelland - shame it was handled so badly. Sounds like Cockers was never interested in the first place - real lack of joined up thinking at the SRU. Also, WTF were they doing sending him down to Hawick.

Given our current lack of depth at 10 if he had been given a chance we would have had a young 10 with a couple of seasons in the pro environment under his belt. That's assuming Cockers would have given him gametime in the first place, which is a huge if!

[bsando]

I bet if all of the SRU's systems and strategies were laid out for all of us to see we'd have a good old laugh at their expense. I always get the feeling that those in charge find it hard to let go of the old way of doing things in favour of a more modern approach. A shame really.

I had been wondering about Dingwall and why he wasn't captured so good to hear why that was. I can understand Dingwall's decision but I still can't believe Redpath, with his fathers legendary reputation, wants to play for England. Very strange, but perhaps he had to let go of his perceived Scottish-ness to fit in at school in northern England?

[EST]

I bet if all of the SRU's systems and strategies were laid out for all of us to see we'd have a good old laugh at their expense. I always get the feeling that those in charge find it hard to let go of the old way of doing things in favour of a more modern approach. A shame really.

I had been wondering about Dingwall and why he wasn't captured so good to hear why that was. I can understand Dingwall's decision but I still can't believe Redpath, with his fathers legendary reputation, wants to play for England. Very strange, but perhaps he had to let go of his perceived Scottish-ness to fit in at school in northern England?

I think he was born there and lived in England all his life. Hoped he might be persuaded, considering the family history and that his old man and Toonie are good mates, but seems like he is set on the England path. Fair play, we have done pretty well out of our English born exiles so can't really grumble when one goes the other way.

[EST]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/we-have-got-to-sharpen-ourselves-up-were-a-bit-frightened-about-upsetting-english-clubs-tait-scotland-scouting/

This is a good interview with Alan Tait about the difficulties of scouting for Scotland.

Unfortunately it looks as if the scouting network is going to become another casualty of Covid!

That's a real shame the scouting programme has ended, it's definitely something we need to pick up when things get back to normal.

On Tait's criticisms, I am sure some are valid - on the surface there does appear to be too many layers of bureaucracy, but given our position with only two clubs we have to be sure the players we bring in are the right ones - there needs to be some oversight on the players brought in by the scouts.

[Tramptastic]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/we-have-got-to-sharpen-ourselves-up-were-a-bit-frightened-about-upsetting-english-clubs-tait-scotland-scouting/

This is a good interview with Alan Tait about the difficulties of scouting for Scotland.

Unfortunately it looks as if the scouting network is going to become another casualty of Covid!

That's a real shame the scouting programme has ended, it's definitely something we need to pick up when things get back to normal.

On Tait's criticisms, I am sure some are valid - on the surface there does appear to be too many layers of bureaucracy, but given our position with only two clubs we have to be sure the players we bring in are the right ones - there needs to be some oversight on the players brought in by the scouts.    

Surely though, the scouts should be reporting to, at most, three people - Gregor Townsend, Richard Cockerill and Danny Wilson. The scouts can then say "i've got this good lad, talented, plays in X position, keen on making the move, who is interested?", highlights reel played, pros and cons are measured, pro club or academy space is identified, player signs. I mean, who out of the SRU tweed and tie gang is interfering??

[EST]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/we-have-got-to-sharpen-ourselves-up-were-a-bit-frightened-about-upsetting-english-clubs-tait-scotland-scouting/

This is a good interview with Alan Tait about the difficulties of scouting for Scotland.

Unfortunately it looks as if the scouting network is going to become another casualty of Covid!

That's a real shame the scouting programme has ended, it's definitely something we need to pick up when things get back to normal.

On Tait's criticisms, I am sure some are valid - on the surface there does appear to be too many layers of bureaucracy, but given our position with only two clubs we have to be sure the players we bring in are the right ones - there needs to be some oversight on the players brought in by the scouts.    

Surely though, the scouts should be reporting to, at most, three people - Gregor Townsend, Richard Cockerill and Danny Wilson. The scouts can then say "i've got this good lad, talented, plays in X position, keen on making the move, who is interested?", highlights reel played, pros and cons are measured, pro club or academy space is identified, player signs. I mean, who out of the SRU tweed and tie gang is interfering??

Well I think there needs to be some overall strategy on the players we bring in, given how few pro opportunities there are across the two teams for young players. Tait seems to be saying there should be direct access to the coaches and not much other scrutiny - a pretty haphazard approach.

Given the scouting and academy set-up is centralised - I imagine this is one of the main tasks of a DR. As i see it, Jim Mallinder should identify the gaps in the pipeline and scouted players should be reviewed against the needs of the clubs and the right ones brought in - following some sort of internal review, like you say with the pro coaches and maybe an academy coach. What I do take from Taits interview, and your points above, is that its seems to be a free for all, which I get would be infuriating - Mallinder is quite recently in post so maybe this was on the agenda to sort out before Covid hit?

[Hazel Sapling]

It might have been the impetus of the Super Six with these young guys coming over. McLelland would have been assigned to one of Boroughmuir, Watsonians or Heriots. It got Dan Gamble the exposure to convince Quins to take him on and can be a feeder system for academy players.

Really the only long term solution is having a third side as then we can say to the Vellacott's, Mercer's, Steele's, Redpath's, Dingwall's and McConnochie's that there is a contract in Scotland if their English clubs decide to low ball them for choosing Scotland (let alone all the other things like getting Wynne, Malcolm, M Smith, Capps game time). Unfortunately, we are not in that position and there will be stories of players taking their chances with the 12 clubs of England than gunning for a Scotland spot.

[George Carlin]

How is everyone?

[jimbopip]

How is everyone????
Wheredafugga you been?

[jimbopip]

How is everyone????
Wheredafugga you been?

[BigGee]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/i-felt-really-frustrated-and-angry-and-there-was-many-a-sleepless-night-ashe-glasgow/

Adam Ashe doing the rounds of the media at the moment, not quite so conciliatory in this article. Another one who may not have DR on his xmas card list so it seems!

Does seem that DW had marked his card early on though and he was never part of his plans.

[NeilyBroon]

Another day, another angry player interview for rugby pass.

Ultimately Ashe was very unlucky with injury, a real shame as he had a lot of potential. Maybe a move to another club would have worked but hard to see any takers outside Scotland. Could've been a different story under a forwards coach like cockers.

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