Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

Just wondering what ailment you have which does not have a proven cure from modern medicine but for which Chinese "medicine" does.
Mac is the secretive one, not me.

[super_realist]

The irony of Grade A oaf Owen Jones telling someone what books to have on your shelves. He really is the C word defined.

[beninho]

The irony of Grade A oaf Owen Jones telling someone what books to have on your shelves. He really is the C word defined.

I don't think he told anyone what books they should have?

My understanding is that he raised that gove had a book by a known holocaust denier along with a book arguing about black people being generically less intelligent.

Considering, for years, he has been linked into being anti semitic, any right minded person could maybe see why he raised it, after it was brought to his attention by Jewish people.

Or you can rail with strange outrage.

I would also add, that its a spectacularly bad tweet in the first place by Mrs Gove, especially if you have the books that will stand out.

[super_realist]

The question is why Jones thinks it's his place to judge what books are on your shelves. If you only ever read books which agree with your own viewpoint, you end up like Jones, a complete idiot. Jones claimed there's no reason to own a book by someone who is a holocaust denier. That's a de facto instruction on what books you can own.

I think it's more likely that Owen Jones is the anti semitic one given his association with the momentum arm of the Labour Party.
I don't think anyone would care if this odious little arse hole and his communist sidekick Sarkar simply disappeared.

[beninho]

Man queries holocaust denier book owned by another man is called anti semitic by another man. OK. Got it.

How many books by holocaust deniers do you own realist?
How many about the genetics of black people being less intelligent?

[beninho]

So, who will download the government's app?

[super_realist]

I don't own any books on the Holocaust at all, because it's not something I'm interested in especially, but I don't see the harm in owning books on Holocaust denial as it helps to understand what reasons someone would have for holding that view, then should you come up against someone like that then you are forearmed to counter their beliefs aren't you?

Simply owning a book does not mean you sympathise or agree with the contents of that book. If I owned any of the books written by Jones, it doesn't mean I agree with his views on Chavs or the working class does it?, but it wouldn't preclude me from owning them.

I have no idea why Jones thought he should even comment on someone else's bookshelf. What's it got to do with him?

Why wouldn't I download the Government app? No doubt you see some problem with it because it's not the government you voted for.

[beninho]

If something is posted on social media, for people to comment, you can't really be surprised that people have commented.

I find your outrage in this pretty funny.

Your brilliant, because you are one of the most opinionated people on this board, always arguing your point never backing down. Yet hate people who hold opinions. Love it.

[super_realist]

It's not outrage, it's just pointing out that Owen Jones is being an arse hole as usual.
His points on owning the book are ridiculous because owning any book doesn't mean you agree with the topic at all.
If I argue something, I usually put a reason across for holding that view. Jones' comment was transparently stupid and it shows.

[McLaren]

It sounds like Gove and possibly Super are acolytes of the intellectual dark Web (idw). Whose members include the Weinstiens, Sam Harris, Douglas Murray, Jordan Peterson and Ben Shipiro.

They have to varying degrees defended or even promoted the ideas raised by Charles Murray about black people's IQ in his book the Bell Curve. Given the lack of skeptical thinking this lot seem to posses it would be no surprise if they thought David Irving was just offering an alternative but plausible hypothesis for what happened to Jews in ww2.

I personally don't need books by young earth creationists to know it is bunk and similarly I don't need Charles Murrays or David Irvings books to know that black people having lower IQ's and holocaust denial are conspiracy theories at best.

The ideas in these books are so widely discredited that the only reason to own them is to make a point.

This is not to say they should be banned but you have ask what the reasons are for people having them?

[super_realist]

As I said Mac, reading such a book would help understand why someone would be so deluded to have such views, even if you already know that their claims are nonsense.

I wouldn't put Sam Harris or Douglas Murray in with the likes of Irving and Petersen either. Even you could find things said by Harris and Murray that you would agree with.

[super_realist]

You didn't say if you'd use the app Beninho?

[beninho]

You didn't say if you'd use the app Beninho?

I'll make a call on that when it gets signed off as ready to use, and meets all requirements re data and privacy. I obviously have concerns with Cummings mates who set it up, they have mining I gather. At present I read its not secure, but if that is all sorted and clarifications are given about what it has access to, then no reason.

[super_realist]

Virtually every app has a mining element to it.

[McLaren]

Super, Harris most definitely deserves to be classed in the same way as JP. They are both acedemics promoting bunk science.

I urge you to read Sam Harris's published acedemic papers. They are utter garbage.

[super_realist]

On what subject are they on Mac? I've only seen him debunk religion which I think he did very well.

[McLaren]

Neuroscience, which in itself is wierd because he is a philosopher.

[Davie]

The world renowned expert, Karen from Facebook, won't install the new app because of security concerns. I know because she announced it on Tic Tok

[super_realist]

Neuroscience, which in itself is wierd because he is a philosopher.

He has a Ph.D in Neuroscience Mac. Sounds like that qualified him to talk about it wouldn't you think?

[beninho]

The world renowned expert, Karen from Facebook, won't install the new app because of security concerns. I know because she announced it on Tic Tok

She must be reading this. https://www.hsj.co.uk/technology-and-innovation/exclusive-wobbly-tracing-app-failed-clinical-safety-and-cyber-security-tests/7027564.article

[McLaren]

If you are interested I recommend googling and reading his two published papers.

[super_realist]

If you are interested I recommend googling and reading his two published papers.

If he's a Neuroscientist, and you aren't, why would I take your word they are nonsense?

[Davie]

The world renowned expert, Karen from Facebook, won't install the new app because of security concerns. I know because she announced it on Tic Tok

She must be reading this. https://www.hsj.co.uk/technology-and-innovation/exclusive-wobbly-tracing-app-failed-clinical-safety-and-cyber-security-tests/7027564.article

That article just points out the app isn't ready yet. At worst it's a bit "wobbly" and a bit slow. That's why it's not generally released yet. These things don't just develop themselves you know?

[JAS]

The question is why Jones thinks it's his place to judge what books are on your shelves. If you only ever read books which agree with your own viewpoint, you end up like Jones, a complete idiot. Jones claimed there's no reason to own a book by someone who is a holocaust denier. That's a de facto instruction on what books you can own.

I think it's more likely that Owen Jones is the anti semitic one given his association with the momentum arm of the Labour Party.
I don't think anyone would care if this odious little arse hole and his communist sidekick Sarkar simply disappeared.

Is he judging? Or expressing an opinion?
If you dislike somebody’s position on something, you tar them as judgemental and try to discredit them. If you agree with someone’s view, it’s a legitimate and freely held opinion ;-) We all do that to a point.

On the actual point, I agree that having a book on something doesn’t mean you agree with the content/subject. If you don’t read things you disagree with and only read things you do agree with then you become more and more narrowed in opinion, reinforcing prejudices etc

In a nutshell Super you should read more Owen Jones :-p

[super_realist]

I've tried reading some of his articles, and he writes like a persecuted brat. I've also seen him interviewed on TV and he's intolerable. He was getting battered so much in the argument that he ran away.

[navyblueshorts]

The irony of Grade A oaf Owen Jones telling someone what books to have on your shelves. He really is the C word defined.

I don't think he told anyone what books they should have?

My understanding is that he raised that gove had a book by a known holocaust denier along with a book arguing about black people being generically less intelligent.

Considering, for years, he has been linked into being anti semitic, any right minded person could maybe see why he raised it, after it was brought to his attention by Jewish people.

Or you can rail with strange outrage.

I would also add, that its a spectacularly bad tweet in the first place by Mrs Gove, especially if you have the books that will stand out.

In a complete absence of any actual, you know, evidence of Gove agreeing w/ views of that sort, could it be that, you know, Gove thinks it reasonable to have some sort of insight into those that do harbour those thoughts?

Move along, f-all to see here....

[navyblueshorts]

It sounds like Gove and possibly Super are acolytes of the intellectual dark Web (idw). Whose members include the Weinstiens, Sam Harris, Douglas Murray, Jordan Peterson and Ben Shipiro.

They have to varying degrees defended or even promoted the ideas raised by Charles Murray about black people's IQ in his book the Bell Curve. Given the lack of skeptical thinking this lot seem to posses it would be no surprise if they thought David Irving was just offering an alternative but plausible hypothesis for what happened to Jews in ww2.

I personally don't need books by young earth creationists to know it is bunk and similarly I don't need Charles Murrays or David Irvings books to know that black people having lower IQ's and holocaust denial are conspiracy theories at best.

The ideas in these books are so widely discredited that the only reason to own them is to make a point.

This is not to say they should be banned but you have ask what the reasons are for people having them?

Look up the phrase 'echo chamber'....

[navyblueshorts]

The world renowned expert, Karen from Facebook, won't install the new app because of security concerns. I know because she announced it on Tic Tok

She must be reading this. https://www.hsj.co.uk/technology-and-innovation/exclusive-wobbly-tracing-app-failed-clinical-safety-and-cyber-security-tests/7027564.article

Consider yourself lucky it isn't a forced download/install as part of an essential system update for your phone. UKG could do that, but they aren't. Ever wonder if your hatred of UKG is well-founded?

[JAS]

The world renowned expert, Karen from Facebook, won't install the new app because of security concerns. I know because she announced it on Tic Tok

She must be reading this. https://www.hsj.co.uk/technology-and-innovation/exclusive-wobbly-tracing-app-failed-clinical-safety-and-cyber-security-tests/7027564.article

Consider yourself lucky it isn't a forced download/install as part of an essential system update for your phone. UKG could do that, but they aren't. Ever wonder if your hatred of UKG is well-founded?

From what I can gather it sounds like tokenisation will be used i.e. a record is taken and encrypted into a “token” which preserves anonymity (that’s pretty much the system used by the worlds biggest credit card companys and which allows them to comply with PCI/DSS So...if people are not going to use the app because of privacy concerns, presumably they will also now be cutting up their credit cards?

[super_realist]

The issue is that it requires the user to take their phone with them, and at present I'm only going out for exercise or to the shops, so why would I take my phone?

[JAS]

The issue is that it requires the user to take their phone with them, and at present I'm only going out for exercise or to the shops, so why would I take my phone?

There does seem to be the assumption that most people have a phone (reasonable) and that they have it on their person at all times (not quite so reasonable). At the beach? Surfing? Swimming? Naked orgy?

[navyblueshorts]

The issue is that it requires the user to take their phone with them, and at present I'm only going out for exercise or to the shops, so why would I take my phone?

Fair point, but it's not going to be a perfect system. Most people are forever joined at the hip w/ their phone.

[McLaren]

It is not unreasonable to ask exactly what data will be gathered by a government tracking app. I would not install the app unless the data gathered was used strictly and only for covid track and trace. I would not want one byte of my data being passed onto some charlatan AI company.

On top of that all data gathered should be available to the public (albeit anonymously) so that we know exactly what has been gathered.

[super_realist]

Mac, they're only after the first half of your postcode.
You flatter yourself thinking that a government would be interested in your movements. They'll get more information from you swiping your bus pass.

You give away tons more data in every aspect of your life from your Internet usage, bank cards, app usage etc.

[Be_the_ball]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/location-tracking-cell-phone.html

Surely this is not news to people.

[JAS]

It is not unreasonable to ask exactly what data will be gathered by a government tracking app. I would not install the app unless the data gathered was used strictly and only for covid track and trace. I would not want one byte of my data being passed onto some charlatan AI company.

On top of that all data gathered should be available to the public (albeit anonymously) so that we know exactly what has been gathered.

If it was an either or, would you rather the R number up around 3 with the strong possibility of you being infected but your privacy protected. Or have something in place to track trace and isolate infection and have an R number much lower than 1 but be at the mercy of a bit of privacy data getting into unscrupulous hands?

I’d be interested a) specifically what you’ve got to hide that you’d risk your life to keep hidden? b) what alternative suggestion you have to get the infection rate under control and lockdown measures eased?

[dynamark]

Be interesting if Mac and Supers postcode were the same .
Don't give a monkeys about privacy on this but not sure how it will be much help.Lets say someone Ive been with close for whatever the time required in Tesco and however many days previous posts they have it(may or may not be tested)then what do I and the many others do -presume the best option would be isolate and ask for a test (may not be available) I may not have yet any symptoms.Does it then go exponential to folk ive been close to.
I'm hoping it helps but bit hard to get ones head around.
Owen Jones is a complete and absolute plonker on the david Ike richter scale of plonkers.Amazed anyone pays him a salary.

[beninho]

Think it will cone down to your views.

Cummings and vote leave were linked to Cambridge analytica and AIQ, who were fined for breaching data protection.

The team behind the new app are also Cummings people.

Now, I'm not saying anything dodgy will be going on far from it. But, maybe need to be wary of things that have happened in the past.

[super_realist]

Like what? What conspiracy have you got in your head that could come out of this?

The hilarious thing is to infer that any government would be interested in your personal movements or that you are important enough for them to care.
It's also funny how those against UK app, never seem to have the same concerns for other countries.

[I'm never wrong]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/location-tracking-cell-phone.html

Surely this is not news to people.

I'm not sure about this BTB, and I will quite happily be proved wrong, but I think in the USA, if the phone is on, you can't turn off it's location setting.

[beninho]

Like what? What conspiracy have you got in your head that could come out of this?

The hilarious thing is to infer that any government would be interested in your personal movements or that you are important enough for them to care.
It's also funny how those against  UK app, never seem to have the same concerns for other countries.

No conspiracy, just pointing it out. It says AIQ were fined for breaching data protection and we are all aware of Cambridge analytuca.

Again, as I say, some will not be fussed about the links some may have concerns.

Whatever way you sit, isn't necessarily wrong. Its just what trust you have with Cummings and the government.

[navyblueshorts]

Think it will cone down to your views.

Cummings and vote leave were linked to Cambridge analytica and AIQ, who were fined for breaching data protection.

The team behind the new app are also Cummings people.

Now, I'm not saying anything dodgy will be going on far from it. But, maybe need to be wary of things that have happened in the past.

Evidence please.

Loads of people breach data protection - it doesn't make them all tinfoil conspiracies. I'd say if CA and AIQ and their data analysis was behind Trump getting in and the Brexit vote, you'd possibly have to suggest that they know how to handle/use data. Did you listen to the briefing yesterday? Until and unless contact w/ NHS required, all data stored on user's phone - only a problem if you're a f-wit and lose your phone...maybe.

No worries though - we'll bang on about data protection and be locked down for far longer. No problem.

[navyblueshorts]

Like what? What conspiracy have you got in your head that could come out of this?

The hilarious thing is to infer that any government would be interested in your personal movements or that you are important enough for them to care.
It's also funny how those against  UK app, never seem to have the same concerns for other countries.

Ironic eh? Most of these people are wailing that UKG didn't restrict their freedom early enough in this pandemic and that we should have acted like China etc for lockdowns.

[super_realist]

Like what? What conspiracy have you got in your head that could come out of this?

The hilarious thing is to infer that any government would be interested in your personal movements or that you are important enough for them to care.
It's also funny how those against  UK app, never seem to have the same concerns for other countries.

No conspiracy, just pointing it out.  It says AIQ were fined for breaching data protection and we are all aware of Cambridge analytuca.

Again, as I say, some will not be fussed about the links some may have concerns.

Whatever way you sit, isn't necessarily wrong. Its just what trust you have with Cummings and the government.

Not trust, just don't have any worry about the government knowing what postcode I'm in. They already know.
As someone already said, it's not about tracking individuals it's about tracking tokens generated by each phone.
Again, what possible use would your data be to the government? We are all nobodies. What possible data could you give away which could be used against you?

[dynamark]

This is getting a bit like the 'prisoner'series which surely deserves a rerun.
Patrick McGoohan I am not a number I am a real person

[beninho]

Think it will cone down to your views.

Cummings and vote leave were linked to Cambridge analytica and AIQ, who were fined for breaching data protection.

The team behind the new app are also Cummings people.

Now, I'm not saying anything dodgy will be going on far from it. But, maybe need to be wary of things that have happened in the past.

Evidence please.

Loads of people breach data protection - it doesn't make them all tinfoil conspiracies. I'd say if CA and AIQ and their data analysis was behind Trump getting in and the Brexit vote, you'd possibly have to suggest that they know how to handle/use data. Did you listen to the briefing yesterday? Until and unless contact w/ NHS required, all data stored on user's phone - only a problem if you're a f-wit and lose your phone...maybe.

No worries though - we'll bang on about data protection and be locked down for far longer. No problem.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/vote-leave-ai-firm-wins-seven-government-contracts-in-18-months

I think there are pretty clear links between them all. But, you may not think so.

[beninho]

Like what? What conspiracy have you got in your head that could come out of this?

The hilarious thing is to infer that any government would be interested in your personal movements or that you are important enough for them to care.
It's also funny how those against  UK app, never seem to have the same concerns for other countries.

No conspiracy, just pointing it out.  It says AIQ were fined for breaching data protection and we are all aware of Cambridge analytuca.

Again, as I say, some will not be fussed about the links some may have concerns.

Whatever way you sit, isn't necessarily wrong. Its just what trust you have with Cummings and the government.

Not trust, just don't have any worry about the government knowing what postcode I'm in. They already know.
As someone already said, it's not about tracking individuals it's about tracking tokens generated by each phone.
Again, what possible use would your data be to the government? We are all nobodies. What possible data could you give away which could be used against you?

I don't think its what use to the government, because I think its a private firm running and holding the data. If data wasn't useful to people, I don't think they would keep it. I read something about plantir saying they can keep the info for after the situation. I suppose this is why the brother of the firm was sitting on sage.

[super_realist]

Still don't understand what you are worried about Beninho. Your location can be tracked in many ways already and you don't care about that.
Your local supermarket must be out of tinfoil.
Cummings does not give the slightest toss about your personal information. What possible use is it to him?

[beninho]

Still don't understand what you are worried about Beninho. Your location can be tracked in many ways already and you don't care about that.

Many things can be tracked. I'm not overly worried, but I can see why some people may be worried about private companies having data and information. It will be interesting to see what we have to allow access to when the app is installed.

[super_realist]

Like what? You keep saying people worried but you won't say why or what data they are worried about.

[beninho]

They are worried that data will be taken off their phones, similar to Cambridge analytica who got Facebook details, dob, and other personal data which was sold to political parties.

Now, as I've said already, this may not happen again, but unfortunately vote leave have links to Cambridge analytica and this new company through Cummings and the Warner brothers.

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