Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

by super_realist Tue 19 May 2020 - 7:58

First topic message reminder :

I'm fine with immigration of people who bring value to the country in one way or another, who wouldn't be? What I'm not in favour of is people who bring nothing to the country in terms of skills, education, money etc. I wouldn't expect the many millions of useless Britons to be able to go the other way either just for balance.

What policy is has actively being engaged to stop people of a particular race unable to enter the country anyway? I've not seen any.

by super_realist Thu 28 May 2020 - 19:54

McLaren wrote:I just think it is one thing to play as locally as possible and another to start embarking on golf trips well away from where you live. People moving between different areas is obviously one way to further spread an outbreak so minimizing travel away from your local area should be adhered to.

You have to think about what else becomes acceptable if you are willing to travel between cities/regions just to play golf and whether that is helping to get the R0 down?

You're being paranoid Mac. I'm more likely to spread/catch it going to the supermarket than I am playing a round of golf.

I agree it's not in the "spirit" but if the SG were seriously troubled about it then they would have been more insistent about the five miles and would enforce it rigidly which they aren't planning on doing. The reason they aren't I believe is that for most people a 5 mile limit means that there are no real benefits to phase one.

by McLaren Fri 29 May 2020 - 13:28

https://www.gov.scot/news/lockdown-begins-to-ease-in-phase-1/

It is pretty clear.

"From tomorrow (29 May), you can now travel short distances for outdoor leisure and exercise but should remain in your local area, suggested to be five miles from your house, although we ask people to use their judgement. People are encouraged to walk, wheel or cycle where possible"

I think it is clear that Fife is not your local area. The leeway around 5 miles is probably in case you live in a rural area not so someone from Edinburgh can travel 1.5 hours to play golf in fife.

by super_realist Fri 29 May 2020 - 21:23

"should" and "suggested" being the operative words and "use your judgement".

It's also not 1.5 hours away.

They might as well have said you can travel 10 metres as it amounts to about the same because it is effectively no change to the status quo of total lockdown for most people if you take it as literally as you. If they were genuinely insistent on it being 5 miles then they would be more careful and more forceful with their language, such as using "must", "insist" and "obligated"

by dynamark Sat 30 May 2020 - 14:07

An awful lot of beer and barbeque coals being sold today.People mainly younger I think are relaxing but you still get the feeling of caution when walking outside shops or passing people .
Lets hope we get the balance right.
Interview with a fella yesterday may well have been our first case and he was in the Italian ski resort where half the village went positive.So its the Italians and the Chinese to blame.

by dynamark Sat 30 May 2020 - 14:07

An awful lot of beer and barbeque coals being sold today.People mainly younger I think are relaxing but you still get the feeling of caution when walking outside shops or passing people .
Lets hope we get the balance right.
Interview with a fella yesterday may well have been our first case and he was in the Italian ski resort where half the village went positive.So its the Italians and the Chinese to blame.

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 6:25

The Italians aren't to blame. It originated in China. Italy was affected for a a number of reasons due to their relationship with the fashion industry and China manufacturing

Odd that Mac would have a go at me for driving for a game of golf, but I bet he's fine with the stupid UK protests outside the US embassy just because its a race matter.Activists are often the worst of people. Nothing but rent a mobs. The man was sacked from his job, and is now on a murder charge. What on earth are they protesting about? Due process has taken place, what more do these idiots want?

You can be absolutely certain that these people are incredibly critical of the UK government handling of coronavirus, but don't seem to notice that what they are doing is threatening a second peak.

by McLaren Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 8:57

super_realist wrote:What on earth are they protesting about? Due process has taken place, what more do these idiots want?

Police to stop killing black people. Do you not support that?

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 9:07

Of course I support that, but the guy has been sacked and is facing a murder charge. What's the point in rioting and what's the point in thousands of idiotic Brits convening at the US embassy? What's it got to do with anyone British?

by westisbest Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 9:09

It is a fking disgrace what happend to George Floyd.
Very sad. Lot been written/said about it in the last week.

I did hear that the officers were beating him up on one side of the car. An officer saw there were cameras, so they took him to the other side of the car to continue. How true that is I don’t know.

The other officers at the scene need to be held accountable to and brought to justice.

Peaceful protests are one thing, but the looting and riots are not helping anyone.

by westisbest Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 9:16

It’s about racism realist. Doesn’t matter where people are from.

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 9:21

westisbest wrote:It’s about racism realist. Doesn’t matter where people are from.

What possible good will it do to protest an embassy in London in regards to eradicating racism from the American police? , especially such flagrant disregarding of social distancing which guaranteed if there's another flare up they'll blame the government and not themselves.

by McLaren Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 9:27

Did anyone really think super would understand this?

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 9:32

McLaren wrote:Did anyone really think super would understand this?

The point is Mac, do you think that protesting in London is going to make any difference to the American police? The answer is probably no, or to out it another way, are the actions of idiotic protestors in London going to result in fewer black people dying in police custody/during arrest? Looking forward to seeing how you will explain it.

by kwinigolfer Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 9:35

super_realist wrote:
westisbest wrote:It’s about racism realist. Doesn’t matter where people are from.

What possible good will it do to protest an embassy in London in regards to eradicating racism from the American police? , especially such flagrant disregarding of social distancing which guaranteed if there's another flare up they'll blame the government and not themselves.

Completely agree.
If the boot was on the other foot, there'd be no protests in the US (partly because most potential protesters wouldn't be able to pick out GB on a map).

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 9:40

Many would find it hard to pick the US out on a map.

by McLaren Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 9:55

In the UK I would question the wisdom of protesting on lockdown grounds but in normal times I say why not offer support? What harm could it do.

In the US, covid or not, the protests are vital. And don't get sucked in by the racists trying to distract you by blowing up some rioting incidents into the main show.

US cops have and will continue to disproportionately kill black people. Some vigorous protesting is totally appropriate.

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 10:09

What good could it do? When have the US ever listened to what is going on outside their borders? Protests are not essential in the UK, especially given that they make the Westminster Bridge NHS gatherings look half reasonable.

Vigorous protest? Care to expand on that Mac, there's never any excuse for anything but peaceful protest.

by kwinigolfer Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 10:11

Mac,
Andrew Cuomo put it very well a day or so ago. Paraphrasing:
The inequality in health care, and the inequality of the criminal justice system are connected.

The problem is far deeper than a rogue cop or even a rogue police force.

by McLaren Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 11:14

Kwini, and when one of the deeper issues is the gerrymandering of voting districts to negate the black vote what option is left other than to protest?

Super

Protesting can turn the political tide. Maybe the UK government puts what, admittedly limited, pressure it can on the US to sort out its race problems. But more importantly they are also protesting for fairer treatment of BAME people in the UK.

I ask you both, would you be happy to be treated like and given the same opportunities as a back person in the US or the UK?

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 11:23

How do you know they are protesting for BAME rights? Where has that been reported?
The US will never listen to the UK in regards to how they ought to run their country , surely even in your naivity you know enough about history to know this?

by kwinigolfer Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 11:31

Mac,
It's not just gerrymandering, or even just the electoral process, it's the entire culture of prejudice against poor Americans, worst for black Americans admittedly.
But violence only reinforces stereotypes drawn by the morons who try to identify disadvantaged populations and keep them that way. (Even if the violence is imported (as seems to largely be the case in Minneapolis) by "supremacist" rent-a-mobs as super suggested elsewhere.)
Just look at who represents the States with the worst social outcomes, whether employment, education, health, and especially women's health & infant mortality, environmental record, etc, etc.

And I can't see this GB&NI government being much better, though perhaps their motives are slightly different.

by JAS Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 11:35

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Did anyone really think super would understand this?

The point is Mac, do you think that protesting in London is going to make any difference to the American police? The answer is probably no, or to out it another way, are the actions of idiotic protestors in London going to result in fewer black people dying in police custody/during arrest? Looking forward to seeing how you will explain it.

In a sense you are correct, no protest in Britain will have the remotest effect on what's happening in Minneapolis BUT in another sense that's not the point. The point is the wider issue of racism in society still being prevalent enough to require protest.

Should that protest be peaceful, yes absolutely it should, should looting be tagged onto it, NO of course not (for many reasons but the prime 2 being a) innocents getting dragged into conflict, b) giving the moral high ground of the argument away very cheaply).

You do seem to have a disdain for the practice and the effectiveness of protest Super. Just try and visualise for a minute where things would be in the world without the Suffragettes, The Tolpuddle Martyrs, Mandela, Rosa Parks, MLK, Hell even Bobby Sands. You could call all the protests they ever made futile. Maybe some were, but most were not. It's not the protest that makes the change, the protest shines a light on the problem. People who protest should be admired for standing up for what they believe in, especially when what they are protesting about involves unnecessary death. The cowards are the ones that turn away and hide when the light is shone on a problem or that defend the status quo when they know it to be unjust (because it doesn't suit their self interest).

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 11:46

I have disdain for people protesting who have no just cause to do so, are hypocrites or are simply professional protestors. The vast majority of protests fit into this description and I'm really struggling to think when the last worthy protest was in Britain.

There have been many worthwhile and noteable protests in history , but most are not and given the way this one has been done in the UK in a manner similar to Mac's preponderance to get offended on other people's behalf and in flagrant disregard for social distancing I deem it to be a 100% worthless protest which will have absolutely no effect on the American police.

by Soul Requiem Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 11:58

JAS

Let's not try suggesting that Bobby Sands was anything more than pure scum and his inclusion alongside Rosa Parks and MLK is an insult to them and what they stood for.

by McLaren Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 12:33

I think at best the effect the UK protects will have on the US is moral support for those protesting in the US.

But super, you seem to be ignoring the fact they are also protesting against the racism that still exists here.

Is that not a "just cause"?

by kwinigolfer Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 12:48

Mac,
Interesting you ignore the points I tried to make about intolerance and far right politics in the US, which after all is at the root of what people take offence at.
Like JAS, I'm all for peaceful protest but have zero tolerance for anything that is allowed to escalate into violence. And I don't see protest leaders having the nuts to rein in the mindless violence that is conducted under cover of protest.

As you rightly suggest, the IRA had a grievance but that didn't justify what ensued.

The answer here and there is the "ballot box", and it's up to the adults to guarantee comprehensive freedom to vote.

by McLaren Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 12:53

Kwini

Don't think I ignored it, certainly didn't mean to. At this point I am sure you know I agree the far right are intolerant. If I have missed something you want me to comment on I am happy to do so.

Also I didn't mention the ira so wonder if you have confused jas's post as mine?

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 12:54

McLaren wrote:I think at best the effect the UK protects will have on the US is moral support for those protesting in the US.

But super, you seem to be ignoring the fact they are also protesting against the racism that still exists here.

Is that not a "just cause"?

You don't know they are protesting racism here Mac, you are simply making a connection, and if that is the case why wait until now and why do it outside a US embassy?

Furthermore you need to learn the difference between an "effect" and "affect"

by kwinigolfer Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 13:05

McLaren wrote:Kwini

Don't think I ignored it, certainly didn't mean to. At this point I am sure you know they I agree the far right are intolerant. If I have missed something you want me to comment on I am happy to do so.

Also I didn't mention the ira so wonder if you have confused jas's post as mine?

Apologies Mac, Yup, definitely JAS with the Bobby Sands reference. Sorry about that.

But institutional intolerance is at the heart of all this nonsense, the black and white divide just a convenient polarising trojan horse.
Andrew Cuomo is right but he knows it goes deeper than that.

Why people in London get involved is bizarre, as is the indifference of the police who tolerate such close-quarters gatherings.

by JAS Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 13:10

Soul Requiem wrote:JAS

Let's not try suggesting that Bobby Sands was anything more than pure scum and his inclusion alongside Rosa Parks and MLK is an insult to them and what they stood for.

From a personal viewpoint I’d agree but I’m also cognisant of the “One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter” argument. Who are we to sit judge and jury? There will be quite a few Afrikaner South Africans who would feel disgust about Mandela being there, similarly there will be more than a few rednecks that would say the same thing about MLK

by McLaren Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 13:22

Kwini

But is it just a convient trojan horse or, as I believe, are things worse for black people. Both in the US and the UK.

In both countries the system isn't blanaced to help the poor but structural racism worsens that injustice for black and ethnic minorities.

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 13:25

Mac, it's very naive (again) of you to lump in UK racism with US racism.

by McLaren Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 13:40

What would be the really naive position would be talk about this subject and not acknowledge the current extent of racism in the UK.

by dynamark Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 13:44

This has livened up the board a bit.Im not sure what smashing windows and nicking a large screen Tv has to do with protest about an unjust death.remember we had that in Croydon years ago.
The footage has obviously fuelled the feelings rightly so.I saw film of him on his feet having cuffs on and it looked fairly civilised presume there was a reason but then something must happen for him to be restrained.
Lets face it there must be incidents,assaults shootings even every day in US.
Any of you scots played golf yet?

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 13:44

I have never at any point said there is no racism in the UK, you're the one pretending that you know this most recent protest is to do with UK racism.

by JAS Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 14:24

dynamark wrote:
Any of you scots played golf yet?

Cheeky wee gross 73 at the weekend Dyna after complete and utter abysmal failures to look like a golfer the previous 2 weekends.

Got an email from Carnoustie at the weekend saying that as things stand they are confident the the Tassie will go ahead as planned in September. Also checked Saunton as that's the next Open I'm booked on (36 holer, last Sunday in July) and their update says visitors and Opens resuming from 15th June and 1st July respectively. Still slightly concerned whether that one will go ahead as Saunton, Croyde and nearby Woolacombe are the prime beaches of North Devon, given a hot sunny June hoards of beachgoers from all over could cause a flareup and consequent local lock down. That's partly already happened in Weston SM, they've had a localised eruption of cases such that their hospital is closed to non-covid cases and their schools haven't reopened today either.

by dynamark Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 15:03

Tidy play JAS I keep getting e mails from the club about cards and handicaps all very odd cant believe anyone is overbothered about qualifying comps .The cups are only 25mm deep apparently?
Range near me at Whetstone golf club is open fully open air so im giving my hip a workout on Wednesday.
Very strange I keep a club in the living room and take a few swings fine but actually striking the ball just causes some slightly different movement very frustrating.

by super_realist Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 16:06

Cups at St Andrews are full depth, however there is a piece of pipe insulation around the flagstick inside the hole which stops the ball dropping so you can just knock it out with your putter.

by BlueCoverman Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 16:15

We had qualifying comps off the back tees on both days at the weekend. Pick and place within 6 inches in the bunkers (No rakes obviously), mark your own card and enter your own score on the Intelligent Golf App at the end of the round. All seemed a bit bizarre really!

The golf club is part of a 200 room hotel complex. Most of the bar staff, waitresses and chambermaids are in the main, young Eastern European women who live in purpose built accommodation within the resort. During lockdown whilst the hotel and golf course was closed many of them took to sunbathing on the adjacent first fairway, mainly topless and wearing the minutest of thongs. Now we have started playing again, no surprise that our first green is the best on the course, its bunkers are immaculate and the fairway is like Augusta. For some reason the two remaining greenkeepers that were not furloughed, seem to have paid particular attention to the first hole on our course! Laugh

by JAS Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 16:31

BlueCoverman wrote:During lockdown whilst the hotel and golf course was closed many of them took to sunbathing on the adjacent first fairway, mainly topless and wearing the minutest of thongs.

What hotel?...asking for a friend...obviously Laugh

by I'm never wrong Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 19:04

super_realist wrote:Cups at St Andrews are full depth, however there is a piece of pipe insulation around the flagstick inside the hole which stops the ball dropping so you can just knock it out with your putter.

My course has installed a plastic base at the bottom of the cups. It is connected to a tube that goes up the flagstick. There is a little sticky out bit on the tube that you pull up with your putter, this lifts the plastic base up with the ball on it, and it rolls onto the green for you to pick up. Simple when you think of it.

by BlueCoverman Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 21:39

JAS wrote:
BlueCoverman wrote:During lockdown whilst the hotel and golf course was closed many of them took to sunbathing on the adjacent first fairway, mainly topless and wearing the minutest of thongs.

What hotel?...asking for a friend...obviously

www.fivelakes.co.uk

I understand that other Eastern European services may also be available! Laugh

by McLaren Mon 1 Jun 2020 - 23:17

"Travel in Scotland may be restricted after hundreds flout rules"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/01/travel-in-scotland-may-be-restricted-after-hundreds-flout-lockdown-rules?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Looks like trips from Edinburgh to St Andrews for leisure will be off the cards on Scotland pretty soon.

by super_realist Tue 2 Jun 2020 - 5:54

McLaren wrote:"Travel in Scotland may be restricted after hundreds flout rules"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/01/travel-in-scotland-may-be-restricted-after-hundreds-flout-lockdown-rules?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Looks like trips from Edinburgh to St Andrews for leisure will be off the cards on Scotland pretty soon.

Mac, do you really think the disgusting Nicola Sturgeon is going to do something which will make her deeply unpopular? She has politicised this whole outbreak and isn't going to risk making herself a pariah now. She's too obsessed with her popularity and relentless lunge towards independence.

5 miles was always a completely ridiculous and niggardly allowance anyway and she's an idiot if she thought it was workable, enforceable or represented any real chance in lockdown conditions. For most people a travel allowance of such a small distance makes really isn't a concession and she might as well not have bothered. Horrible little poison dwarf that she is.

PS, The Guardian is a paper that should never be quoted, it is as bad as The Sun or the Daily Mail.

by beninho Tue 2 Jun 2020 - 7:29

Another black man shot dead. This one in louisville. Really not helping themselves. Shooting bullets into crowds? Saw the video of them handcuffing a guy for no reason, and then finding his fbi card The police charging camera men, targeting journalists. The mineapolis police firing paint at that persons house.

What a dangerous situation. And Trump, is seemingly used a church as a prop to his supporters. Not sure, if he's the man to unite the cou try.

https://twitter.com/safimichael/status/1267066155019223041?s=19
This is a crazy thread on journalists being targeted. Constant slogans of fake media meadiascum has driven this. Unfortunately, it now seems to be more prevalent in the UK aswell.

by super_realist Tue 2 Jun 2020 - 8:53

The media haven't helped themselves.

by Soul Requiem Tue 2 Jun 2020 - 8:59

It looks like India is about to go bang in a big way.

by super_realist Tue 2 Jun 2020 - 9:08

Soul Requiem wrote:It looks like India is about to go bang in a big way.

In what way?

by Soul Requiem Tue 2 Jun 2020 - 9:13

Over 8,000 new cases yesterday in a country testing roughly the same as the UK but with a population twenty times bigger.

by beninho Tue 2 Jun 2020 - 9:14

super_realist wrote:The media haven't helped themselves.

Yep, they deserve to be shot, and assaulted when doing their job.

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