Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

I'm fine with immigration of people who bring value to the country in one way or another, who wouldn't be? What I'm not in favour of is people who bring nothing to the country in terms of skills, education, money etc. I wouldn't expect the many millions of useless Britons to be able to go the other way either just for balance.

What policy is has actively being engaged to stop people of a particular race unable to enter the country anyway? I've not seen any.

[super_realist]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Just had that exact debate (not on here) and your point is bang on regarding the apparent abandonment of social distancing whilst protesting, just like the press hounds clambering over each other breaking the rules to film a guy who broke the rules. Just waiting for the protestors to use the lame excuse of “well Cummings broke the rules” when the R rate starts ticking back up. For everybody else every life matters and causing an up tick in R rate is not in line with demonstrating that every life matters.

Strange that these same people were also not protesting in support of the Gilet Jaune, Hong Kong democracy protestors or ethnic minorities treatment in China. Very ironic that the group contains the words "lives matter", but apparently they don't when it means you can have a jolly good time on a rally that isn't even related to this country.

[beninho]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

I don't think its the same thing. I know you like to point out differences, I'm sure you can see those. I think Cummings broke the law at the time, I was looking at legislation.com and couldn't find what law was broken in the protests. It seems attending is not against the law, and not an offence, same as everyone attending the beaches over the last few weeks.

I have not seen you raise issues with that though, i may have missed it though.

[Soul Requiem]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Just had that exact debate (not on here) and your point is bang on regarding the apparent abandonment of social distancing whilst protesting, just like the press hounds clambering over each other breaking the rules to film a guy who broke the rules. Just waiting for the protestors to use the lame excuse of “well Cummings broke the rules” when the R rate starts ticking back up. For everybody else every life matters and causing an up tick in R rate is not in line with demonstrating that every life matters.

I had the exact same debate on Facebook too, my point the same as yours was that the protests will affect everyone in the coming weeks and that merely saying #blacklivesmatter doesn't negate that and in this country in particular we should have more sense than that.

[Soul Requiem]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

I don't think its the same thing. I know you like to point out differences, I'm sure you can see those. I think Cummings broke the law at the time, I was looking at legislation.com and couldn't find what law was broken in the protests. It seems attending is not against the law, and not an offence, same as everyone attending the beaches over the last few weeks.

I have not seen you raise issues with that though, i may have missed it though.

Do get over yourself FFS, if you can't see that these protests are far worse than one person driving elsewhere then to be honest you're an idiot.

[super_realist]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

I don't think its the same thing. I know you like to point out differences, I'm sure you can see those. I think Cummings broke the law at the time, I was looking at legislation.com and couldn't find what law was broken in the protests. It seems attending is not against the law, and not an offence, same as everyone attending the beaches over the last few weeks.

I have not seen you raise issues with that though, i may have missed it though.

You didn't look very hard then did you? Groups of more than 6 are not permitted and social distancing has not been observed.  Why were the police not breaking this up? Scared of attack possibly? Scared of being called "racist"? Anyway, at what point did anyone claim they broke the law, rather than their behaviour is ridiculous and those criticising Cummings have been strangely silent on something which puts far more at risk?

Yes, I have criticised those on the beach.

This merely adds to my previous point that many of the activist groups are just hypocritical morons.

[beninho]

can you find the legislation?

My reading was that attending was not an offence. But, i know legislation is not always easy to read.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/7/schedule/22

My reading, is attending is not a crime, though can't see any reference about actual numbers.

[beninho]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

I don't think its the same thing. I know you like to point out differences, I'm sure you can see those. I think Cummings broke the law at the time, I was looking at legislation.com and couldn't find what law was broken in the protests. It seems attending is not against the law, and not an offence, same as everyone attending the beaches over the last few weeks.

I have not seen you raise issues with that though, i may have missed it though.

Do get over yourself FFS, if you can't see that these protests are far worse than one person driving elsewhere then to be honest you're an idiot.

More people at the crowded beaches over the last weeks then the protest. Heck, probably more people at the lido near my house.

People do appear to be more het up over black people protesting then geberally white people sunning it up.

[super_realist]

can you find the legislation?

My reading was that attending was not an offence. But, i know legislation is not always easy to read.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/7/schedule/22

My reading, is attending is not a crime, though can't see any reference about actual numbers.

Why are you trying to defend them? No one claimed it was an offence, but are you unwilling to accept that this demonstration is been conducted disgracefully and those attending in the middle of a pandemic are flouting government rules?

Government guidelines are gatherings of more than 6 are not permitted, and 2 metre distancing should be maintained, can you see that in this demo?

[super_realist]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

I don't think its the same thing. I know you like to point out differences, I'm sure you can see those. I think Cummings broke the law at the time, I was looking at legislation.com and couldn't find what law was broken in the protests. It seems attending is not against the law, and not an offence, same as everyone attending the beaches over the last few weeks.

I have not seen you raise issues with that though, i may have missed it though.

Do get over yourself FFS, if you can't see that these protests are far worse than one person driving elsewhere then to be honest you're an idiot.

More people at the crowded beaches over the last weeks then the protest. Heck, probably more people at the lido near my house.

People do appear to be more het up over black people protesting then geberally white people sunning it up.

I've seen plenty photos and criticism of people (who aren't just white by the way) at pools and beaches, but that wouldn't suit your agenda.

[Soul Requiem]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

I don't think its the same thing. I know you like to point out differences, I'm sure you can see those. I think Cummings broke the law at the time, I was looking at legislation.com and couldn't find what law was broken in the protests. It seems attending is not against the law, and not an offence, same as everyone attending the beaches over the last few weeks.

I have not seen you raise issues with that though, i may have missed it though.

Do get over yourself FFS, if you can't see that these protests are far worse than one person driving elsewhere then to be honest you're an idiot.

More people at the crowded beaches over the last weeks then the protest. Heck, probably more people at the lido near my house.

People do appear to be more het up over black people protesting then geberally white people sunning it up.

Oh yes that's it it's because of race.

Now that is whataboutery.

[beninho]

can you find the legislation?

My reading was that attending was not an offence. But, i know legislation is not always easy to read.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/7/schedule/22

My reading, is attending is not a crime, though can't see any reference about actual numbers.

Why are you trying to defend them? No one claimed it was an offence, but are you unwilling to accept that this demonstration is been conducted disgracefully and those attending in the middle of a pandemic are flouting government rules?

Government guidelines are gatherings of more than 6 are not permitted, and 2 metre distancing should be maintained, can you see that in this demo?

Personally, I wouldn't drive to a crowded beach, I haven't driven any real distance more than a few miles for months it seems. I wouldn't protest in a blm protest. But, if it was something that I felt personally strong about, or something that I felt impacted me as a person, I would consider protesting if I could.

On the guidelines thing, I think you've answered your own question on why the police didn't break it up. Its not illegal.

[beninho]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

I don't think its the same thing. I know you like to point out differences, I'm sure you can see those. I think Cummings broke the law at the time, I was looking at legislation.com and couldn't find what law was broken in the protests. It seems attending is not against the law, and not an offence, same as everyone attending the beaches over the last few weeks.

I have not seen you raise issues with that though, i may have missed it though.

Do get over yourself FFS, if you can't see that these protests are far worse than one person driving elsewhere then to be honest you're an idiot.

More people at the crowded beaches over the last weeks then the protest. Heck, probably more people at the lido near my house.

People do appear to be more het up over black people protesting then geberally white people sunning it up.

Oh yes that's it it's because of race.

Now that is whataboutery.

Unfortunately for some people, it probably is. Not saying anyone on here specifically.

[Soul Requiem]

That's just a lazy excuse for something that shouldn't be happening but you can't spin it politically your own way so you don't care.

Barry Gardener has just destroyed Labours stance on the return to parliament, brilliant.

[beninho]

To be fair, I think Alok Sharma has made the return to parliament thing look a daft idea already.

[super_realist]

can you find the legislation?

My reading was that attending was not an offence. But, i know legislation is not always easy to read.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/7/schedule/22

My reading, is attending is not a crime, though can't see any reference about actual numbers.

Why are you trying to defend them? No one claimed it was an offence, but are you unwilling to accept that this demonstration is been conducted disgracefully and those attending in the middle of a pandemic are flouting government rules?

Government guidelines are gatherings of more than 6 are not permitted, and 2 metre distancing should be maintained, can you see that in this demo?

Personally, I wouldn't drive to a crowded beach,  I haven't driven any real distance more than a few miles for months it seems. I wouldn't protest in a blm protest. But, if it was something that I felt personally strong about, or something that I felt impacted me as a person, I would consider protesting if I could.

On the guidelines thing, I think you've answered your own question on why the police didn't break it up. Its not illegal.

Yet, they've broken up thousands of gatherings of BBQ's , Parties, large groups, people at the beach etc, so why not this? They have the power d to do so by the way.

So if there's no problem with such large gatherings, then just allow people to attend football matches, golf tournaments, concerts, open up all the shops let everyone go back to work etc? You haven't thought this one out have you?

[Soul Requiem]

It does sum up the country and highlight that the opinions of many are based purely on political stance rather than actually giving a toss, such uproar over one man and his immediate family driving elsewhere but excuses made for large crowds of people gathering because they think it looks good on them to be seen as caring.

I'll be brutally honest here, I didn't care a great deal about the Cummings situation beyond the effect it will have on the Tories at future elections but the protests however and the idiots gathering on beeches will not only impact on my chances of going on holiday but thousands around the country, that may not be a priority to you Ben but it's so important to so many people.

[Davie]

Is it no longer illegal to throw missiles at police and punch them then?

[super_realist]

Is it no longer illegal to throw missiles at police and punch them then?

Clapping essential workers on Thursday. "F*ck the police" on Wednesday. Unbelievable.

[beninho]

Is it no longer illegal to throw missiles at police and punch them then?

Think that's still illegal

[Davie]

Yet you couldn't find what law was broken ..

[beninho]

Yet you couldn't find what law was broken ..

In terms of the gathering and social distancing. That was what I thought the discussion was about. Its pretty obvious that assault is still assault.

[super_realist]

Yet you couldn't find what law was broken ..

In terms of the gathering and social distancing. That was what I thought the discussion was about. Its pretty obvious that assault is still assault.

So there was nothing wrong with the gathering and social distancing? You do realise that it doesn't have to be a law for the police to act right?
If there's nothing wrong with this gathering, then why isn't everything back to normal?

[navyblueshorts]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Past giving a XXXX now. For the record, I think they're just as wrong, but maybe they get a pass as they're being woke?

[navyblueshorts]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Just had that exact debate (not on here) and your point is bang on regarding the apparent abandonment of social distancing whilst protesting, just like the press hounds clambering over each other breaking the rules to film a guy who broke the rules. Just waiting for the protestors to use the lame excuse of “well Cummings broke the rules” when the R rate starts ticking back up. For everybody else every life matters and causing an up tick in R rate is not in line with demonstrating that every life matters.

But that's the whole point re. what Cummings did...

[Soul Requiem]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Just had that exact debate (not on here) and your point is bang on regarding the apparent abandonment of social distancing whilst protesting, just like the press hounds clambering over each other breaking the rules to film a guy who broke the rules. Just waiting for the protestors to use the lame excuse of “well Cummings broke the rules” when the R rate starts ticking back up. For everybody else every life matters and causing an up tick in R rate is not in line with demonstrating that every life matters.

But that's the whole point re. what Cummings did...

That's rubbish and you know it, there were beach gatherings for instance before the Cummings incident came to light, it's just imbeciles using it as an excuse rather than a reason why they're being idiots.

[westisbest]

I’d hazard a guess that a lot of the folks on the beaches in Bournemouth and nearby beaches were people who didn’t live in Bournemouth, or even Dorset.

Didn’t agree with the rule that you could travel far distances.

[super_realist]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Past giving a XXXX now. For the record, I think they're just as wrong, but maybe they get a pass as they're being woke?

That's it precisely, Ben was frothing at the mouth to condemn Cummings, but said next to nothing about this group or the beach idiots, also made no mention of the lack of condemnation by Labour for all their lockdown breaches. Funny that.

[incontinentia]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Its the rank hypocrisy of what Cummings did that gets him so much heat compared to BLM protesters super. He is in a position of leadership during a national crisis and is rightly held to a much higher standard of accountability than regular Joe protesters. But of course you're right about the ludicrousness of having such protests outside of the US at all.

[super_realist]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Its the rank hypocrisy of what Cummings did that gets him so much heat compared to BLM protesters super. He is in a position of leadership during a national crisis and is rightly held to a much higher standard of accountability than regular Joe protesters. But of course you're right about the ludicrousness of having such protests outside of the US at all.

I get that, but if you are rabidly condemnatory of Cummings you should be similarly condemnatory of these idiots. Wjy isn't Barry Gardiner being criticised for breaking lockdown rules? Aren't we supposed to hold opposition MP's to the same standard?

[incontinentia]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Its the rank hypocrisy of what Cummings did that gets him so much heat compared to BLM protesters super. He is in a position of leadership during a national crisis and is rightly held to a much higher standard of accountability than regular Joe protesters. But of course you're right about the ludicrousness of having such protests outside of the US at all.

I get that, but if you are rabidly condemnatory of Cummings you should be similarly condemnatory of these idiots. Wjy isn't Barry Gardiner being criticised for breaking lockdown rules? Aren't we supposed to hold opposition MP's to the same standard?

Probably because BLM'ers are motivated by a noble cause and Cummings was motivated by his own selfishness (disguised as concern for his daughter). And also it's taboo to criticise those protesting George Floyd's death.

[super_realist]

Whether or not its a noble cause is entirely irrelevant. It doesn't mean it usurps lockdown conditions.
Lots of people have far better reasons than these clowns and they haven't broken guidelines.

[incontinentia]

Whether or not its a noble cause is entirely irrelevant. It doesn't mean it usurps lockdown conditions.
Lots of people have far better reasons than these clowns and they haven't broken guidelines.

But it does affect how commentators speak about it, which was your original question. Few would have the balls to say anything critical given the huge groundswell of support for the black rights movements in the last week. Here in Ireland, there is a criminal investigation into the protests that took place. I presume there is something similar happening in the UK?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/why-is-there-a-criminal-investigation-into-the-black-lives-matter-dublin-protest-1.4270112

[super_realist]

No chance Inco. The government would be too scared to do that.
Plenty correspondents in media criticising it, but whenever they talk to an MP or some representative of civil rights groups they refuse to condemn their behaviour.
The only brutality I've seen so far is from the protestors.

Khan doing a terrible job as usual. Tweeting about cycle paths instead of his loss of control.

[beninho]

What I like about you realist, is your unwavering belief that everyone should have the same views as yourself and if not they are wrong.

[JAS]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Just had that exact debate (not on here) and your point is bang on regarding the apparent abandonment of social distancing whilst protesting, just like the press hounds clambering over each other breaking the rules to film a guy who broke the rules. Just waiting for the protestors to use the lame excuse of “well Cummings broke the rules” when the R rate starts ticking back up. For everybody else every life matters and causing an up tick in R rate is not in line with demonstrating that every life matters.

But that's the whole point re. what Cummings did...

I get that Navy (and for the record I do think Cummings is a grade a c***) but using idiocy as an excuse for further idiocy which puts even more lives at risk (of any ethnic origin) is infact...idiocy!!

[super_realist]

What I like about you realist, is your unwavering belief that everyone should have the same views as yourself and if not they are wrong.

How can you not think that these protests are idiotic in a number of ways?

[super_realist]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Just had that exact debate (not on here) and your point is bang on regarding the apparent abandonment of social distancing whilst protesting, just like the press hounds clambering over each other breaking the rules to film a guy who broke the rules. Just waiting for the protestors to use the lame excuse of “well Cummings broke the rules” when the R rate starts ticking back up. For everybody else every life matters and causing an up tick in R rate is not in line with demonstrating that every life matters.

But that's the whole point re. what Cummings did...

I get that Navy (and for the record I do think Cummings is a grade a c***) but using idiocy as an excuse for further idiocy which puts even more lives at risk (of any ethnic origin) is infact...idiocy!!

I wasn't sure why people were having a go, sounded like everyone was in agreement (except for Ben)

[navyblueshorts]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Just had that exact debate (not on here) and your point is bang on regarding the apparent abandonment of social distancing whilst protesting, just like the press hounds clambering over each other breaking the rules to film a guy who broke the rules. Just waiting for the protestors to use the lame excuse of “well Cummings broke the rules” when the R rate starts ticking back up. For everybody else every life matters and causing an up tick in R rate is not in line with demonstrating that every life matters.

But that's the whole point re. what Cummings did...

That's rubbish and you know it, there were beach gatherings for instance before the Cummings incident came to light, it's just imbeciles using it as an excuse rather than a reason why they're being idiots.

No, I don't know it. The point re. Cummings is he was a central part of the message - and he trashed it. And you know it...

[Soul Requiem]

Strange that those who rightly had a go at Cummings are oddly silent about the BLM protest in London which is putting a lot more people at risk. Is it because they aren't in the government?

Just had that exact debate (not on here) and your point is bang on regarding the apparent abandonment of social distancing whilst protesting, just like the press hounds clambering over each other breaking the rules to film a guy who broke the rules. Just waiting for the protestors to use the lame excuse of “well Cummings broke the rules” when the R rate starts ticking back up. For everybody else every life matters and causing an up tick in R rate is not in line with demonstrating that every life matters.

But that's the whole point re. what Cummings did...

That's rubbish and you know it, there were beach gatherings for instance before the Cummings incident came to light, it's just imbeciles using it as an excuse rather than a reason why they're being idiots.

No, I don't know it. The point re. Cummings is he was a central part of the message - and he trashed it. And you know it...

That's what you believe, idiots look for any excuse for their idiocy, the protests yesterday had nothing to do with Cummings driving up to Durham and you know it...

[beninho]

What I like about you realist, is your unwavering belief that everyone should have the same views as yourself and if not they are wrong.

How can you not think that these protests are idiotic in a number of ways?

Quote me, when I have said I am in agreement?

You have made up your own argument.

[McLaren]

Is it no longer illegal to throw missiles at police and punch them then?

Clapping essential workers on Thursday. "F*ck the police" on Wednesday. Unbelievable.

F*ck the police every day as far as I am concerned.

[beninho]

Is it no longer illegal to throw missiles at police and punch them then?

Clapping essential workers on Thursday. "F*ck the police" on Wednesday. Unbelievable.

F*ck the police every day as far as I am concerned.

Coming straight from the underground?

They have the authority to kill a minority

[super_realist]

Is it no longer illegal to throw missiles at police and punch them then?

Clapping essential workers on Thursday. "F*ck the police" on Wednesday. Unbelievable.

F*ck the police every day as far as I am concerned.

What an idiotic thing to say Mac.

[super_realist]

Is it no longer illegal to throw missiles at police and punch them then?

Clapping essential workers on Thursday. "F*ck the police" on Wednesday. Unbelievable.

F*ck the police every day as far as I am concerned.

Coming straight from the underground?

They have the authority to kill a minority

When? We are talking about UK here.

[JAS]

Meanwhile...are we starting to see a divergence between Scottish numbers and UK numbers? The past 3 days have seen the Scottish deaths come in at 1,12 & 9 whereas the UK numbers have been circa 350ish each day. I would expect the UK figure (based on the population ratio + earlier stats) to be 10-15 times the Scottish one, I know its been slightly more that that at times over the piece but this week, on average Scottish deaths are running about 1/50th of UK ones. Similarly with new infection, the Scottish figure today is 49, proportionately the UK one should be around 500 to 750, however its been more than double that every day this week.

All very anecdotal but IF those differences are as a result of Scotland having had a slightly longer and tighter lockdown then we could be about to see the UK figure start to accelerate upwards when the beachcombers start falling sick.

On the other hand the statistical anomaly on infections could be explained by perhaps a proportionately higher volume of testing in England. I suppose the grim reality of the death stats will tell us over the coming weeks.

[McLaren]

Maybe the protesters have picked the optimally strategic time to protest. If the government really cared about getting the R0 down and black rights they would give the protesters something as quickly as possible to end the protest and just do what black people deserve.

They could easily announce some legislation that even things out for black people and agree that the queen and boris would give a joint apology for the British colonization and enslavement of Africans. If they were feeling really nice they could throw in something about only allowing the US access to the massive new post brexit trade deals if they adhered to human rights around arrest and treatment of black people.

[beninho]

Is it no longer illegal to throw missiles at police and punch them then?

Clapping essential workers on Thursday. "F*ck the police" on Wednesday. Unbelievable.

F*ck the police every day as far as I am concerned.

Coming straight from the underground?

They have the authority to kill a minority

When? We are talking about UK here.

Not a hip hop fan?

[JAS]

Is it no longer illegal to throw missiles at police and punch them then?

Clapping essential workers on Thursday. "F*ck the police" on Wednesday. Unbelievable.

F*ck the police every day as far as I am concerned.

Well that helps!! FFS Mac. One day you might need them, what if they turned round and said "F**k you Mac"

[McLaren]

Super, what a spoon.

[super_realist]

Maybe the protesters have picked the optimally strategic time to protest. If the government really cared about getting the R0 down and black rights they would give the protesters something as quickly as possible to end the protest and just do what black people deserve.

They could easily announce some legislation that even things out for black people and agree that the queen and boris would give a joint apology for the British colonization and enslavement of Africans. If they were feeling really nice they could throw in something about only allowing the US access to the massive new post brexit trade deals if they adhered to human rights around arrest and treatment of black people.

You are absolutely hilarious Mac. Why should anyone apologise for slavery now? It's been over 200 years.

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