The summer of cricket 2020

First topic message reminder :

We have actual cricket news for the first time in forever...and some hope that we will see some test matches this summer!

England bowlers began a return to individual training on Thursday, with batsmen and wicketkeepers scheduled to make a return on 1st June, in anticipation of the West Indies series being rescheduled to begin on 8th July (all according to various reports).

There was also reports a few weeks back they might play some one day games, whilst tests are happening too. Not seen anything else about that, but with England’s depth in the shorter format it could be done you’d think players wise (and actually would present a good opportunity to some on the fringes)

ECB is going to confirm the full list of players who will resume training next week. Murmurings about Hales in the one day stuff don’t go away...

So anyways - let’s keep fingers crossed, and hope everyone who posts here is healthy and staying safe too

https://twitter.com/cricvizanalyst/status/1281596090085670912

Can't have been many English seamers in recent times who were demonstrably better away from home, than at home, as Wood is? I can't really think of one...maybe Tremlett?

guildfordbat wrote:Tbf to Bess, I see his value and he would be in ''my Test side'' at the current time. Valuable runs from him first dig as well. As you say though, he's no Swann and we shouldn't jump to the mistake of thinking that 2 or 3 first innings wickets will equate to 4, 5 or 6 in the second.

Anyway, he's going again now ....

Nearly broke through again...very hot return catch and he couldn't hang on to it.  Hit his hands at a rather awkward angle so not surprised he spilled it...but again he has tempted a batsman into error...

Too late now but I really do think Stokes should have persevered with him against Dowritch when he first came in. Might have been costly - might have got a result. We will never know.

But we do know that this partnership has gone on to fifty odd anyway...

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Tbf to Bess, I see his value and he would be in ''my Test side'' at the current time. Valuable runs from him first dig as well. As you say though, he's no Swann and we shouldn't jump to the mistake of thinking that 2 or 3 first innings wickets will equate to 4, 5 or 6 in the second.

Anyway, he's going again now ....

Nearly broke through again...very hot return catch and he couldn't hang on to it.  Hit his hands at a rather awkward angle so not surprised he spilled it...but again he has tempted a batsman into error...

Too late now but I really do think Stokes should have persevered with him against Dowritch when he first came in. Might have been costly - might have got a result. We will never know.

But we do know that this partnership has gone on to fifty odd anyway...

Think you get our commentary, Alfie - anyway, I liked Holding's comment that the umpire would have been pleased Bess got his hands in the way of the ball!

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Tbf to Bess, I see his value and he would be in ''my Test side'' at the current time. Valuable runs from him first dig as well. As you say though, he's no Swann and we shouldn't jump to the mistake of thinking that 2 or 3 first innings wickets will equate to 4, 5 or 6 in the second.

Anyway, he's going again now ....

Nearly broke through again...very hot return catch and he couldn't hang on to it.  Hit his hands at a rather awkward angle so not surprised he spilled it...but again he has tempted a batsman into error...

Too late now but I really do think Stokes should have persevered with him against Dowritch when he first came in. Might have been costly - might have got a result. We will never know.

But we do know that this partnership has gone on to fifty odd anyway...

Think you get our commentary, Alfie - anyway, I liked Holding's comment that the umpire would have been pleased Bess got his hands in the way of the ball!

Yes Guildford, especially since he is not wearing a perspex covid screen like Oxenford.

On the subject of covid too... interesting stat there regarding the lack of swing compared to recent years. OK, no Stuart Broad but no saliva either.
Or is it just that the conditions aren't all that conducive for it at present but may come into play in the final session?

Hi Guildford ...yes when they hit them back that hard the umpire might wish he had a helmet on ! Hard to dodge from a standing start...

What do you fancy for close of play score now ? Looks likely West Indies are going to last the day unless the new ball does wonders so I'm thinking England are going to need a big second innings to get out of this one.

Two wickets, door ajar, the Windies close it again. Excellent graft and grit by Chase, while Dowrich has added the tempo sorely needed by the West Indies.

England haven't been attacking enough in the afternoon, and will have to hope the new ball enables them to take the last five wickets for not very much, otherwise this test will get away from them. Noticeable how little swing there has been, even taking into account the old ball factor.

Still 38 overs left in the day and, if the light holds, nearly three hours to get them all in. If the West Indies add another 70+ from here, they win. If England can capture the remaining five wickets whilst the lead is in two digits, it's right in the fun zone.

Duty281 wrote:Two wickets, door ajar, the Windies close it again. Excellent graft and grit by Chase, while Dowrich has added the tempo sorely needed by the West Indies.

England haven't been attacking enough in the afternoon, and will have to hope the new ball enables them to take the last five wickets for not very much, otherwise this test will get away from them. Noticeable how little swing there has been, even taking into account the old ball factor.

Still 38 overs left in the day and, if the light holds, nearly three hours to get them all in. If the West Indies add another 70+ from here, they win. If England can capture the remaining five wickets whilst the lead is in two digits, it's right in the fun zone.

Pretty fair summary

alfie wrote:Hi Guildford ...yes when they hit them back that hard the umpire might wish he had a helmet on ! Hard to dodge from a standing start...

What do you fancy for close of play score now ? Looks likely West Indies are going to last the day unless the new ball does wonders so I'm thinking England are going to need a big second innings to get out of this one.

My thoughts at the start of the day of the Windies getting a lead of 50 to 60 before being all out looks somewhat disrespectful to our visitors. They lead by 31 now and still have 5 wicket left.

At risk of stating the bl**ding obvious, we need a couple of wickets pronto. Still reckon we could be batting tonight but we could be 100 in arrears. That'll be hard to turn around even with the Windies batting last.

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Two wickets, door ajar, the Windies close it again. Excellent graft and grit by Chase, while Dowrich has added the tempo sorely needed by the West Indies.

England haven't been attacking enough in the afternoon, and will have to hope the new ball enables them to take the last five wickets for not very much, otherwise this test will get away from them. Noticeable how little swing there has been, even taking into account the old ball factor.

Still 38 overs left in the day and, if the light holds, nearly three hours to get them all in. If the West Indies add another 70+ from here, they win. If England can capture the remaining five wickets whilst the lead is in two digits, it's right in the fun zone.

Pretty fair summary

Only just seen this. Yep, verdict of ''pretty fair'' from me too.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://twitter.com/cricvizanalyst/status/1281596090085670912

Can't have been many English seamers in recent times who were demonstrably better away from home, than at home, as Wood is? I can't really think of one...maybe Tremlett?

Hi Olly - not sure about ''demonstrably'' but Flintoff did ok with the ball away from home. Someone else you'll know (although not as a player) is Tony Greig - he was successful bowling overseas although perhaps more with spin than seam.

This is pretty crap from Anderson and Archer

guildfordbat wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://twitter.com/cricvizanalyst/status/1281596090085670912

Can't have been many English seamers in recent times who were demonstrably better away from home, than at home, as Wood is? I can't really think of one...maybe Tremlett?

Hi Olly - not sure about ''demonstrably'' but Flintoff did ok with the ball away from home. Someone else you'll know (although not as a player) is Tony Greig - he was successful bowling overseas although perhaps more with spin than seam.

There was a chap called Tyson who managed fifty odd wickets in a short career in Australia , NZ and SA , and only about twenty at home. Though he only played a handful of home games.

A bit before Olly's time though

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:This is pretty crap from Anderson and Archer

A little harsh I think ! Have been some loose balls but they have to attack while its new. These two bats have played them well though.

Actually the commentators are discussing the length issue as I type...

Whatever , West Indies are surviving and thriving. Have to give them credit .

Think Archer's been pretty poor with the new ball (again!). Anderson's bowled a few decent deliveries, but looks massively frustrated with proceedings.

100 lead? Might be closer to 200 if this carries on!

I fear England are starting to look a little resigned in the field now...really hasn't been fire and brimstone since tea has it ?

Here's a chance though ...looks close , Jimmy likes it : yes !

Keep going forever Jimmy.

Don't think the umpires have got the bounce of this pitch pegged at all yet. Archer's LBW hit him above the kneeroll from a tall man in Holder and was hitting, and the Campbell one last night from a smaller man in Anderson was going over. And they judge another 'height' one wrong there.

Needed that : understatement ! Where would we be without Jimmy ?

On your Archer point , Duty : I actually do not rate him particularly highly with a new ball - at least at this stage of his career. Even last year in the Ashes series I fancy he did more damage in second spells and even later. They don't seem to fancy Wood with a new ball either so the omission of Broad - and Woakes - continues to confound...

Thank goodness for DRS, eh? Certainly works better than VAR.

But it may already be too late. Joseph and Gabriel both average in single figures, Roach about 12 - even so, Holder and Dowrich should be able to take their side to a triple digit lead.

alfie wrote:Needed that : understatement !  Where would we be without Jimmy ?

On your Archer point , Duty : I actually do not rate him particularly highly with a new ball - at least at this stage of his career. Even last year in the Ashes series I fancy he did more damage in second spells and even later.  They don't seem to fancy Wood with a new ball either so the omission of Broad - and Woakes - continues to confound...

Agreed. Expect we'll see Broad back for the second test at Manchester.

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:Needed that : understatement !  Where would we be without Jimmy ?

On your Archer point , Duty : I actually do not rate him particularly highly with a new ball - at least at this stage of his career. Even last year in the Ashes series I fancy he did more damage in second spells and even later.  They don't seem to fancy Wood with a new ball either so the omission of Broad - and Woakes - continues to confound...

Agreed. Expect we'll see Broad back for the second test at Manchester.

That was always going to happen anyway but I suspect hes sat watching this with a sense of complete smug self satisfaction right now.

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://twitter.com/cricvizanalyst/status/1281596090085670912

Can't have been many English seamers in recent times who were demonstrably better away from home, than at home, as Wood is? I can't really think of one...maybe Tremlett?

Hi Olly - not sure about ''demonstrably'' but Flintoff did ok with the ball away from home. Someone else you'll know (although not as a player) is Tony Greig - he was successful bowling overseas although perhaps more with spin than seam.

There was a chap called Tyson who managed fifty odd wickets in a short career in Australia , NZ and SA , and only about twenty at home. Though he only played a handful of home games.

A bit before Olly's time though

The Typhoon.

Duty281 wrote:Thank goodness for DRS, eh? Certainly works better than VAR.

But it may already be too late. Joseph and Gabriel both average in single figures, Roach about 12 - even so, Holder and Dowrich should be able to take their side to a triple digit lead.

Lead at 67 so they need to rattle through them from here , yes. And Anderson is spent for now so the younger men really have to step up if they're to do so...

Maybe it's the lack of a crowd but I'm not getting the sense of menace that all this much vaunted pace should be producing at a vital stage. Just feels somehow a little flat ? I guess the pitch has flattened out too , to be fair.

Fifty for Dowritch A good - and important - innings. May be taking his team to a winning lead.

Dowritch putting in an early claim for MotM. Valuable runs today and some good catches yesterday.

Stokes gets Holder hooking to deep square ...well held by Archer after slightly misjudging it and having to take it low down

One end open perhaps ? Only 77 on so if England could wrap up the tail they aren't quite out of it yet...

First West Indian not to make double figures. Up to Dowrich now.

guildfordbat wrote:Dowritch putting in an early claim for MotM. Valuable runs today and some good catches yesterday.

Yes he's having a good match . Sometimes looks a bit awkward behind the stumps but he held all the catches ...his take of Buttler was particularly agile. Longer he stays the more this lead is likely to be decisive.

With seven down now might Jimmy have one more short spell in him ? Though maybe Wood can pitch it up now and shoot a few rabbits...

alfie wrote:Stokes gets Holder hooking to deep square ...well held by Archer after slightly misjudging it and having to take it low down

One end open perhaps ? Only 77 on so if England could wrap up the tail they aren't quite out of it yet...

I wonder if both sides would take the West Indies having a 100 lead if offered now.

Well done to Stokes, had been thinking we could have done with him bowling a bit more today.

Lead crosses the 100 mark. But Joseph gets his stumps rattled on the very next ball.

He amassed a useful 18 runs, though.

Time for Dowrich to get hold of a few and frustrate the English even more.

Stokes has Dowritch at last , four wickets for him

Was a bit of a strangle but he'll take it.

And Wood gets one at last so it's a lead of 114. Think Gabriel prefers bowling

Lovely yorker from Wood to wrap up the innings. Best way to bowl to tailenders!

Lead of 114 - should be match-winning. West Indies strong favourites from here. And they won't begrudge having 40 or so minutes at the English batters tonight. Two or more wickets tonight will put them firmly in the pound seats.

A strong advantage for the tourists. Not totally overwhelming perhaps - batting looks likely to be a bit easier tomorrow than yesterday : but a few wickets tonight could really put England in a hole.
Solid batting effort from most of their players. Disappointment for England in the much heralded two express bowlers taking 1/135 between them.
Dare I sit up for the fourteen overs or turn in and hope to wake to not much damage...hmm...

Not much fear of 14 overs, probably only time for eight or nine.

Burns away with a thick edge to the rope.

Alfie - play ends here 7pm so I reckon we'll only get about 9 overs to face. Vital Burns and Sibley see that through.

As you say, a strong advantage for the tourists and about double what I was expecting before play started today.

England need to step up. Its not as big a lead as the gulf between the teams has felt and in theory England get the better of conditions now. No more excuses, deliver.
In terms of the windies its comforting on some ways that only two of their bowlers really troubled england and one of them faded. But terrifying to think what will happen if roach turns up this innings.

Gooseberry wrote:Overly specific stat of the day ...Anderson is the 3rd player to take 100 plus wickets over the age of 35, all of them had a better average over 35 than in their younger days. Andersons taken 107 at a shade under 21. Quite a thing.

Stokes dropped again ...

Just to note Andersons first innings figures maintained that post 35 sub 21 average.

That was a sensational opening over from Gabriel.

Only thing it lacked was the edge of Burns' bat.

Have to say watching Burns and Sibley trying to weather the new ball is not exactly relaxing.
Both have shown some promise in their short Test careers so far but they aren't quite Cook and Strauss in their prime...

4 overs gone. Maybe six more ?

alfie wrote:Have to say watching Burns and Sibley trying to weather the new ball is not exactly relaxing.
Both have shown some promise in their short Test careers so far but they aren't quite Cook and Strauss in their prime...

4 overs gone. Maybe six more ?

They can't waste time by claiming someone in the crowd is moving by the sightscreen.

Gooseberry wrote:England need to step up. Its not as big a lead as the gulf between the teams has felt and in theory England get the better of conditions now. No more excuses, deliver.
In terms of the windies its comforting on some ways that only two of their bowlers really troubled england and one of them faded. But terrifying to think what will happen if roach turns up this innings.

Roach was the pick of the bowlers in the first innings despite not taking a wicket, Gabriel and Holder benefited a lot from the pressure he was putting on the batsmen.

Nine overs done. One more to see off...

So they survive and will resume trailing by just 100. Makes this evening session England's best so far for the match ...

Rather be in West Indies shoes ; but still all to play for.

Goodnight all

Very engrossing mini-session. Just about won by Burns and Sibley in spite of some excellent bowling, in particular from Gabriel.

Had the West Indies 65-35 ahead at stumps yesterday; think it's 80-20 now.

Decent effort that from Burns and Sibley; both tend to look in more trouble than they actually are with the plays and misses. If England can get to parity before Pope comes in I make them favourites.

Down but not out.

Can we bat all day tomorrow and beyond? If so, the draw comes into the equation which few would have expected with these line ups.

If England can bat lon enough then we also get to find out if their reading of the pitch was correct. There has been quite a bit of variable bounce, and if it breaks up and speeds up under the sun of the next two days it could get very spicy.
Regardless England have to collectively turn up with the bat and rely on a bit more than Stokes who really is dragging England along almost single handedly so far.

Criticism of the Broad/bat first decision can wait till we have seen if they can actually deliver. Regardless of who gets picked those players need to front up. They have a second chance.

Yep big opportunity for them to right the wrong from the first innings with the bat - clearly not going to be easy, but if they can set WI something over 150 they are in the game at least, I’d fancy anything over 200 to be a winning total (albeit then the draw is coming into the game more...)

Two days ...assuming full overs available and scoring rates similar :

If England can bat all Saturday they should be about 180 ahead. So a lead of about 220 might be possible an hour into day five.
That would make for an intriguing fourth innings chase with all results possible.

In fact I don't expect this England lineup to manage that many ( hope I'm wrong !) so I do still make West Indies strong favourites. But as Olly says even a 150 chase could be tricky...

The other question is whether this England bowling group is good enough to defend a low target. Anderson may struggle to back up as well second innings after a short break ; and with no Broad around they will need a much better performance from Wood (who was fast , but a bit erratic in length ) and particularly from Archer , who really didn't offer anything apart from one economic spell yesterday afternoon. Bess did a good job but I am not sure he's a fourth innings wrecker ...skipper might have to use himself a bit more ?

Anyway you can't say it hasn't been interesting : proper Test cricket and haven't we missed it !

I think we'll end up with an England lead of somewhere between 100-150, and the West Indies polishing it off with 5/6 wickets to spare. England need to bat the day to get a positive result, but I'm not sure they have the disclipline and form to do just that. On the other hand, if the Windies bowl as well as did in the first innings, it could be game over tonight.

Pitch not playing any tricks yet...should be a decent batting day , with plenty of sun about. Unfussy start to the day...you'd think West Indies might have to work harder for their wickets this time around. 25/0 after five overs added today.

But I will never underestimate the ability of England to collapse so am watching with a measure of foreboding nonetheless...

Openers are doing well wearing down the bowlers, always get the feeling with the Windies that their attack will eventually tire and become a bit blunt. Burns looking a bit busier so far and is a surprisingly quick runner between the wickets.