The summer of cricket 2020

First topic message reminder :

We have actual cricket news for the first time in forever...and some hope that we will see some test matches this summer!

England bowlers began a return to individual training on Thursday, with batsmen and wicketkeepers scheduled to make a return on 1st June, in anticipation of the West Indies series being rescheduled to begin on 8th July (all according to various reports).

There was also reports a few weeks back they might play some one day games, whilst tests are happening too. Not seen anything else about that, but with England’s depth in the shorter format it could be done you’d think players wise (and actually would present a good opportunity to some on the fringes)

ECB is going to confirm the full list of players who will resume training next week. Murmurings about Hales in the one day stuff don’t go away...

So anyways - let’s keep fingers crossed, and hope everyone who posts here is healthy and staying safe too

My (small) money is on the Windies. More in a bit.

Yes, new ball will be crucial. England will need at least three, maybe four, scalps in the first fifteen overs.

Winviz has the Windies at 51%, England 40%, Draw 9% - can't really see Archer and Wood batting through the morning for the draw!

Gooseberry wrote:Big day for Bess potentially, hes shown he can take wickets even without much help. Tuffers was fawning all over him after day 2. If it does break up and if Wood and Archer can find their radar and if that first innings didnt take too much out of Anderson then maybe Stokes wont have to win it on his own.

Goose - you being paid by the ''if''?

guildfordbat wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Big day for Bess potentially, hes shown he can take wickets even without much help. Tuffers was fawning all over him after day 2. If it does break up and if Wood and Archer can find their radar and if that first innings didnt take too much out of Anderson then maybe Stokes wont have to win it on his own.

Goose - you being paid by the ''if''?

If only

Being paid by the "if " in this particular up and down Test Match might be a pretty good deal...

Oddly enough this situation is very close to what I had expected after day 2 - but they got here in rather a convoluted way ! Hard to be too confident predicting today's action.

West Indies won't be happy with the bowling so far this morning. 300 up is more than I'd expected...

Whisper it quietly, but Jof is applying himself pretty well here. His batting at test level has been poor thus far but he does know how to hold a bat.

guildfordbat wrote:My (small) money is on the Windies. More in a bit.

To expand - I doubt we'll be setting them as many as 200 and feel that anything below that will not be enough. Benedict has since informed the Sky audience that the West Indies have never lost a Test chasing under 200 - gulp, didn't know that before.

Also, the pitch was doing a bit yesterday but didn't seem to be misbehaving badly. Whilst Archer and Wood have the potential to send stumps flying, their pace could of course also see runs being leaked. Furthermore, as I and others have said during this Test, although Bess brings value to the England team, I don't see him rattling through the opposition on the last day. Most of all though, I like Holder and feel his captaincy brings a calmness to the West Indies, often missing in their sides in recent and past years.

Perfectly thought out and probably entirely wrong. Anyway, who cares? Great to have cricket back and a cracking match too!

Cooks talked about the 2018 test against India here which followed a similar pattern. A much stronger opposition batting line up and they ended up winning that one comfortably. It did take Broad and Anderson to clean up the top 3 for 22 though.

Wood out ...oh well. Archer can swing free now.

alfie wrote:Being paid by the "if " in this particular up and down Test Match might be a pretty good deal...

Oddly enough this situation is very close to what I had expected after day 2 - but they got here in rather a convoluted way ! Hard to be too confident predicting today's action.

West Indies won't be happy with the bowling so far this morning. 300 up is more than I'd expected...

Hi Alfie - Exactly! To be clear, my last post was a speculative view and not a confident prediction.

Handy 24 added so far...more than I expected. Archer has played pretty soundly for a change ...and I don't think they've bowled too well at him.
Hope they don't overdo the fiddling the strike now ...take every run as it comes I think , Jimmy is as likely to get a couple away as Jofra anyway...

Nice strike from Archer 199 on...

Is he gone now though ? Review called...but I think that's it.

200 to win then...

Side note that Burns and Sibleys scores in this test have put them both on averages over 40. Only other England opener averaging 40 post Strauss is Hammed. All of them are only a shade over that mark, which really makes you appreciate just how special Cook was, hes so far ahead of his contemporaries.
Crawleys test average is now higher than his First class one.

I've criticised Jofra for his batting, but here he's played a very important hand.

29 runs added by England this morning - enough to make them narrow favourites.

The first 15 overs will be crucial and likely decide the test.

Good decision, always worth a review I guess because technology. Wouldve really done Holders blood pressure no good if ultra edge hadnt worked!

Draw is the least favourite result now. Perfect test!

200 to win.

England will need wickets with the new ball as the pitch still isn't doing that much.

Gooseberry wrote:Side note that Burns and Sibleys scores in this test have put them both on averages over 40. Only other England opener averaging 40 post Strauss is Hammed. All of them are only a shade over that mark, which really makes you appreciate just how special Cook was, hes so far ahead of his contemporaries.
Crawleys test average is now higher than his First class one.

Burns average is about 34 right now.

Gooseberry wrote:Good decision, always worth a review I guess because technology. Wouldve really done Holders blood pressure no good if ultra edge hadnt worked!

Draw is the least favourite result now. Perfect test!

Could get a tied test! Nothing would surprise me after last year's summer.

Gooseberry wrote:Side note that Burns and Sibleys scores in this test have put them both on averages over 40. Only other England opener averaging 40 post Strauss is Hammed. All of them are only a shade over that mark, which really makes you appreciate just how special Cook was, hes so far ahead of his contemporaries.
Crawleys test average is now higher than his First class one.

Burns can't have increased his average by that much with a 30 and 40 ? He was on 33 or so before the match , no ? Sibley must be still about 40 but his sample size is pretty small as yet...

Gooseberry wrote:Side note that Burns and Sibleys scores in this test have put them both on averages over 40. Only other England opener averaging 40 post Strauss is Hammed. All of them are only a shade over that mark, which really makes you appreciate just how special Cook was, hes so far ahead of his contemporaries.
Crawleys test average is now higher than his First class one.

Trescothick, Strauss and Cook coming in quick succession did spoil us England fans it must be said.

Strauss being a fairly conservative captain, the KP hullabaloo and then joining the ECB hierarchy seems to have clouded some fans opinion of him. He was a very good opening batsman. 21 centuries and averaging over 40 at a strike rate indicative of him being able to dominate bowlers at times.

During the latter years of Cook's I wonder what he'd have given for a partner like Mark Butcher let alone a Mike Atherton or even Alec Stewart in his early days as an opener!

Wonder if Archer's lively cameo with the bat will flow into his bowling ?
Would be handy if he gets it right this morning !

Gooseberry wrote:Cooks talked about the 2018 test against India here which followed a similar pattern. A much stronger opposition batting line up and they ended up winning that one comfortably. It did take Broad and Anderson to clean up the top 3 for 22 though.

Wood out ...oh well. Archer can swing free now.

Apparently they defended totals similar to this twice in that series to win, and of course Ireland ....

Bodes well for England.

alfie wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Side note that Burns and Sibleys scores in this test have put them both on averages over 40. Only other England opener averaging 40 post Strauss is Hammed. All of them are only a shade over that mark, which really makes you appreciate just how special Cook was, hes so far ahead of his contemporaries.
Crawleys test average is now higher than his First class one.

Burns can't have increased his average by that much with a 30 and 40 ? He was on 33 or so before the match , no ?  Sibley must be still about 40 but his sample size is pretty small as yet...

Yeah youre right Im talking nonsense! Move along

Archer does retain use of the new ball.

Nearly got a wicket first ball, I thought it looked good in real time, but just outside leg.

Then beats Campbell second ball. Encouraging...

Kraigg Brathwaite is a key wicket here it certainly feels.

If England can get into the inexperienced middle order early then they will fancy getting a couple more quickly.

Theres chances....the uneven bounce is going to keep the result open even if west indies do get a stand

Not sure how Campbell survived that first Archer over!

king_carlos wrote:Kraigg Brathwaite is a key wicket here it certainly feels.

If England can get into the inexperienced middle order early then they will fancy getting a couple more quickly.

Agree with that. He won't score fast perhaps but he doesn't half soak up pressure - as we saw first innings here. They've got a few who will hit the ball later if the attack starts to lose its edge...

alfie wrote:Wonder if Archer's lively cameo with the bat will flow into his bowling ?
Would be handy if he gets it right this morning !

Cracking first over from Jofra. Lovely shape across the leftie. Hopefully it is his day.

He does tend to be feast or famine with the ball so far in his Test career - gone wicketless 4 times in 14 innings, but also has two 6fers and a fifer in that time!

king_carlos wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Side note that Burns and Sibleys scores in this test have put them both on averages over 40. Only other England opener averaging 40 post Strauss is Hammed. All of them are only a shade over that mark, which really makes you appreciate just how special Cook was, hes so far ahead of his contemporaries.
Crawleys test average is now higher than his First class one.

Trescothick, Strauss and Cook coming in quick succession did spoil us England fans it must be said.

Strauss being a fairly conservative captain, the KP hullabaloo and then joining the ECB hierarchy seems to have clouded some fans opinion of him. He was a very good opening batsman. 21 centuries and averaging over 40 at a strike rate indicative of him being able to dominate bowlers at times.

During the latter years of Cook's I wonder what he'd have given for a partner like Mark Butcher let alone a Mike Atherton or even Alec Stewart in his early days as an opener!

It sometimes gets forgotten that Vaughan scored a lot of runs opening the batting, ten of his centuries were scored opening.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Not sure how Campbell survived that first Archer over!

Jofra absolutely outclassed him but got nowt. Hopefully not a sign that it's going to be one of those days for England.

Duty281 wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Not sure how Campbell survived that first Archer over!

Jofra absolutely outclassed him but got nowt. Hopefully not a sign that it's going to be one of those days for England.

Well he seems to have got rid of him ...if not perhaps permanently

Getting hit on the toe at that pace is not fun ! Unlucky for West Indies...

Provided Campbell comes back, that's not a bad thing for the Windies. Hope is more likely to be able to soak up the deliveries from the new ball bowlers than Campbell. Campbell could come back later and give the Windies a real push against an old ball.

Soul Requiem wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Side note that Burns and Sibleys scores in this test have put them both on averages over 40. Only other England opener averaging 40 post Strauss is Hammed. All of them are only a shade over that mark, which really makes you appreciate just how special Cook was, hes so far ahead of his contemporaries.
Crawleys test average is now higher than his First class one.

Trescothick, Strauss and Cook coming in quick succession did spoil us England fans it must be said.

Strauss being a fairly conservative captain, the KP hullabaloo and then joining the ECB hierarchy seems to have clouded some fans opinion of him. He was a very good opening batsman. 21 centuries and averaging over 40 at a strike rate indicative of him being able to dominate bowlers at times.

During the latter years of Cook's I wonder what he'd have given for a partner like Mark Butcher let alone a Mike Atherton or even Alec Stewart in his early days as an opener!

It sometimes gets forgotten that Vaughan scored a lot of runs opening the batting, ten of his centuries were scored opening.

Very true, I had forgotten that. Trescothick and Vaughan were a very aggressive opening pair.

alfie wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Kraigg Brathwaite is a key wicket here it certainly feels.

If England can get into the inexperienced middle order early then they will fancy getting a couple more quickly.

Agree with that.  He won't score fast perhaps but he doesn't half soak up pressure - as we saw first innings here. They've got a few who will hit the ball later if the attack starts to lose its edge...

According to this https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29444087/top-batsmen-batting-position hes the worst opener to ever score 3000 test runs!

JDizzle wrote:

alfie wrote:Wonder if Archer's lively cameo with the bat will flow into his bowling ?
Would be handy if he gets it right this morning !

Cracking first over from Jofra. Lovely shape across the leftie. Hopefully it is his day.

He does tend to be feast or famine with the ball so far in his Test career - gone wicketless 4 times in 14 innings, but also has two 6fers and a fifer in that time!

A wicket for Jofra - 6fer nailed on now.

Element of fortune, but Archer undoubtedly deserved that. 7/1.

Gooseberry wrote:

alfie wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Kraigg Brathwaite is a key wicket here it certainly feels.

If England can get into the inexperienced middle order early then they will fancy getting a couple more quickly.

Agree with that.  He won't score fast perhaps but he doesn't half soak up pressure - as we saw first innings here. They've got a few who will hit the ball later if the attack starts to lose its edge...

According to this https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29444087/top-batsmen-batting-position hes the worst opener to ever score 3000 test runs!

A well timed post!

Brathwaite plays on to Archer! Big wicket... Might have kept a little low too?
Pressure on Brooks who played so brightly first innings ...

There's the breakthrough and the important one of Brathwaite.

Archer is bowling well here. As others on these boards have commented he often looks more dangerous when bowling a tad below his fastest but hitting 'the corridor' ball after ball with his bounce and seam movement causing issues for batsman.

In a way I think Jof looks best when bowling a bit like how Curtly Ambrose used to. Except Ambrose had that consistent line and length at an even higher pace than Archer does!

king_carlos wrote:

Very true, I had forgotten that. Trescothick and Vaughan were a very aggressive opening pair.

He's not everyones cup of tea but there was a 2/3 year period when he was sublime and such a classy batsmen to watch, around the same time Thorpe's form skyrocketed no doubt helped by having a decent opening pair for a change.

JDizzle wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

alfie wrote:Wonder if Archer's lively cameo with the bat will flow into his bowling ?
Would be handy if he gets it right this morning !

Cracking first over from Jofra. Lovely shape across the leftie. Hopefully it is his day.

He does tend to be feast or famine with the ball so far in his Test career - gone wicketless 4 times in 14 innings, but also has two 6fers and a fifer in that time!

A wicket for Jofra - 6fer nailed on now.

Hope so, JD. Good and accurate opening bowling from both Jofra and Jimmy. Two in the hutch to put us in a good position even though one can hobble out to the middle once more if needed.

Was good to see Archer getting a wicket with one that was full and close to the stumps. My main criticism of him as a new ball bowler is he just doesn't usually make them play enough...hopefully that success will encourage him to attack the stumps more . Usually pays on a pitch with variable bounce...

7/1 after 7. A fine approach for now for the Windies, but the longer England can drag this chase out the more chance they have of taking 10 wickets on a wearing pitch.

Lovely stuff from Archer. Pitched up and mid to high 80s in pace. 7/2...maybe 7/3 if Campbell can't return.

Jofra follows my instructions Good lad !

Full and straight and too good for Brooks

Don't think West Indies are getting near 200 today...

This is where Archer is so frustrating, the moment he drops his pace and attacks the stumps he becomes a far more dangerous bowler, as of yet he hasn't blasted through any team with pace.

Archer may be inconsistent but when hes on ...

England surely have to win from here

Soul Requiem wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Very true, I had forgotten that. Trescothick and Vaughan were a very aggressive opening pair.

He's not everyones cup of tea but there was a 2/3 year period when he was sublime and such a classy batsmen to watch, around the same time Thorpe's form skyrocketed no doubt helped by having a decent opening pair for a change.

Vaughan was a brilliant player at his best no doubt. Injuries and playing against some very good bowling attacks took their toll later on.

Thorpe was just a class act during an inconsistent era. The lockdown video that Sky did about that era with Hussain, Stewart and Gough was really interesting. There was lots of talent available but inconsistency in selection hindered them. Stewart should have been opening, that could have provided a platform for Ramprakash/Hick to actually settle in lower down the order, etc.

Gough, Caddick, Cork, Headley, Malcolm to rotate in the seamers/quicks. Even Tuffers as a spinner was a better bowler than often given credit for.

The good records of some of those players despite being messed around a bit by selection sums up their class. Stewart and Thorpe standout in that regard as batsman. Stewie should have been opening and that in turn should have given someone like Thorpe the platform to score even more runs.

Interested to see how long Stokes keep Jofra on for here - he is bowling lovely but he is a strike bowler. Maybe he gets two more at an absolute push.

king_carlos wrote:

Vaughan was a brilliant player at his best no doubt. Injuries and playing against some very good bowling attacks took their toll later on.

Thorpe was just a class act during an inconsistent era. The lockdown video that Sky did about that era with Hussain, Stewart and Gough was really interesting. There was lots of talent available but inconsistency in selection hindered them. Stewart should have been opening, that could have provided a platform for Ramprakash/Hick to actually settle in lower down the order, etc.

Gough, Caddick, Cork, Headley, Malcolm to rotate in the seamers/quicks. Even Tuffers as a spinner was a better bowler than often given credit for.

The good records of some of those players despite being messed around a bit by selection sums up their class. Stewart and Thorpe standout in that regard as batsman. Stewie should have been opening and that in turn should have given someone like Thorpe the platform to score even more runs.

They created a bigger problem dropping Russell than the one they had with him in the team. Hick played 65 matches for England and I don't recall him ever having an extended run in the team just like Ramprakash who ultimately wasn't really up to test cricket but Hick should have been.

The bowlers offered a lot of decent variation especially when you throw Fraser into the mix, poor management definitely cost them.