The summer of cricket 2020

First topic message reminder :

We have actual cricket news for the first time in forever...and some hope that we will see some test matches this summer!

England bowlers began a return to individual training on Thursday, with batsmen and wicketkeepers scheduled to make a return on 1st June, in anticipation of the West Indies series being rescheduled to begin on 8th July (all according to various reports).

There was also reports a few weeks back they might play some one day games, whilst tests are happening too. Not seen anything else about that, but with England’s depth in the shorter format it could be done you’d think players wise (and actually would present a good opportunity to some on the fringes)

ECB is going to confirm the full list of players who will resume training next week. Murmurings about Hales in the one day stuff don’t go away...

So anyways - let’s keep fingers crossed, and hope everyone who posts here is healthy and staying safe too

So all the talk about Manchester being a bit quicker and more favourable for the likes of Archer and Wood...and neither of them are playing! Meaning it'll be, apart from Stokes, an entirely new seam attack for this second test.

Would like to see England give Robinson the chance, at the expense of Curran.

Sounds like he broke the protocols between the Ageas Bowl and Old Trafford on the way between the venues, not whilst at the venues themselves.

Must've fancied a McDonald's or something on the way

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Archer also out as he’s broken the bio secure rules and thus needs to self isolate for five days as per ECB protocol

Time to fire up the Ollie Robinson hype train???

No room now! Think it would be a bit silly to play Curran and Woakes when you can’t shine the ball properly...

So from my thinking that 3 changes from the first test would be too many for the selectors, we now have 4 - and Buttler still isn't one of them!

As regards something that will surprise no one about my old school reaction to Archer breaking safety protocols, I'm not overly impressed. Leave it at that other than Simmons and Holder probably can't believe their luck as their well organised and professional side gets ready to start what for them could be a series winning test.

Yes, one side is settled, the other one's in a bit of a state. The chance of the West Indies winning their first test series over here since 1988 (!) is closer than ever before.

Wonder if Jofra will face extra punishment from the ECB for what's he done? Barring some sort of emergency which caused him to breach the protocols, it is an act of extreme stupidity and selfishness.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Sounds like he broke the protocols between the Ageas Bowl and Old Trafford on the way between the venues, not whilst at the venues themselves.

Must've fancied a McDonald's or something on the way

ECB confirm he returned to his home in Brighton on the way, instead of going straight to Manchester. Have to admit I assumed they would all be travelling together in coaches up there, ala football teams...

Anyways - being left out here and presumably a fine will suffice. Hopefully be back in contention for the next test

Raining in Manchester. Delayed start likely. Could have plenty of this over Thursday/Friday/Saturday with gloomy conditions forecast; could be a few bad light interruptions, too.

Have to bowl first if you win the toss.

Some "summer" of cricket, yeah? ... he says hoping to jinx the Weather Gods.

50% sure Ian Ward on Sky said the mop-up operation would take 90 minutes.

For a bit of drizzle? Good grief.

They probably need to verify that each blade of grass doesn't exceed the maximum permissible moisture content to ensure player safety.

Honestly... we could be in for a long night, alfie.

JDizzle wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Archer also out as he’s broken the bio secure rules and thus needs to self isolate for five days as per ECB protocol

Time to fire up the Ollie Robinson hype train???

No room now! Think it would be a bit silly to play Curran and Woakes when you can’t shine the ball properly...

Does Robinson have some mgic they don't? hes not a genuine quick and hes very much a county type bowler too from my understanding.

I dont think it was ever in Englands thinking to be playing Woakes and Curran together during this series, but I don't see how its any sillier to have two guys in who have ridiculously good home test records than a lad who's used to bowling in Div 2 (with a ball you can shine properly). And lets be honest, the only thing they aren't allowed to do is put saliva on the ball, they can still use sweat. Since putting jelly beans on the ball was banned if they really want to work it its easier now to have some sun cream (Manchester weather not withstanding) on and transfer that.

The Robinson hype train is running out of control it seems!

As it is England will be going in with broad whos the greatest player ever to have not played in the last test apparently, Stokes who will win the game singlehandedly and three guys who could bat at 6 in the west indies side at 7, 8, 9. Given the amount of cloud around I'm not overly worried, although they may need Bess to learn how to take second innings wickets if it brightens up over the weekend.

On the plus side it should stay dry once they do get started. Rain forecast for Saturday morning which probably means another short day but at least they will be able to sell some day five tickets

12:30 start, 83 overs in the day (lol they'll be taken off when it gets a bit dark at 5:30)

Ah well ...no one ever said fast bowlers had to have a brain

( I'm allowed to say that...used to be pretty quick myself once upon a time )

Jokes aside it doesn't exactly add to the impression that England are really well organised this series. Rather doubt they would be opting for whatever attack they will now end up with were this an Ashes Series. But you never know ... This lot might skittle West Indies cheaply and really give the selectors a problem for match three !

Rain as usual I see...but at least it looks as if we will get a start eventually. As PJ says , anyone in my time zone might have a late night.

Gooseberry wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Archer also out as he’s broken the bio secure rules and thus needs to self isolate for five days as per ECB protocol

Time to fire up the Ollie Robinson hype train???

No room now! Think it would be a bit silly to play Curran and Woakes when you can’t shine the ball properly...

Does Robinson have some mgic they don't? hes not a genuine quick and hes very much a county type bowler too from my understanding.

I dont think it was ever in Englands thinking to be playing Woakes and Curran together during this series, but I don't see how its any sillier to have two guys in who have ridiculously good home test records than a lad who's used to bowling in Div 2 (with a ball you can shine properly). And lets be honest, the only thing they aren't allowed to do is put saliva on the ball, they can still use sweat. Since putting jelly beans on the ball was banned if they really want to work it its easier now to have some sun cream (Manchester weather not withstanding) on and transfer that.

The Robinson hype train is running out of control it seems!

As it is England will be going in with broad whos the greatest player ever to have not played in the last test apparently, Stokes who will win the game singlehandedly and three guys who could bat at 6 in the west indies side at 7, 8, 9. Given the amount of cloud around I'm not overly worried, although they may need Bess to learn how to take second innings wickets if it brightens up over the weekend.

Ollie Robinson has a far superior FC record to both Woakes and especially Curran, albeit they have played Tests in that and Robinson has played a lot in D2. He also shone in the warm up game a few weeks ago taking 2-7 off 9 in the first innings. Was the best bowler for the Lions in Australia over the winter too - taking 7 in the match in the unofficial Test match over there. So he’s not your Rushworth/Stevens type, he has proved it more against higher opposition and in some alien conditions.

He’s tall - which is always a bonus and I really like how he actively has tried to add some pace. Could have easily settled being a gun County operator but he wanted to push himself. He’ll swing and seam it, and whilst he’ll never be Wood or Archer, he’s more quick enough (like I say, not a Rushworth/Stevens/Mark Davies) and he is relentlessly accurate. A better pure bowler than SCurran for my money at least.

So I’d pick him anyway!

JD - my being too lazy to check and thinking you'll know anyway, I'm pretty sure Robinson can also bat a bit. Got a few decent Championship scores, I seem to remember.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:12:30 start, 83 overs in the day (lol they'll be taken off when it gets a bit dark at 5:30)

Further lol, only a one hour session before lunch.

Windies bowling first and are unchanged. Sensible call, I think, even though the pitch looks a little flat. They'll need a few breakthroughs in the first hour.

No Robinson, for England, guess that's expected.

Duty - yeah, despite good canvassing by JD and Olly, Robinson always seemed the one most likely to miss the cut.

Highly unusually for me, I side with Holder choosing to bowl first here in the current conditions. Assuming the necessary fitness checks have been done, I also go along with the Windies choosing the same attack. Sure, it'll be hard work coming so soon after the first Test but 20 England wickets and a win last time out will help energise them.

England will bat deep this time, with Bess at 10 and Broad at 11. Might get a few more runs from six wickets down than they did last time.

Think this first session has the potential to be utter carnage. Very overcast, quite damp, new ball, a fired-up and in-form West Indies seam bowling unit - everything stacked in their favour. If England get to lunch two down or fewer, I think they'll have done very well.

guildfordbat wrote:JD - my being too lazy to check and thinking you'll know anyway, I'm pretty sure Robinson can also bat a bit. Got a few decent Championship  scores, I seem to remember.

Made a ton on debut for Sussex in the CC! Wouldn’t put him in the SCurran/Woakes bracket, but more similar to the Bess and what Archer was purported to be. A useful number 9 for sure.

Yeah the batting is significantly strengthened here with the enforced changes - a good by product of Woakes and Curran being in reserve.

Batting certainly looks deep ! Might need to be ...ball moving a fair bit first over.

Bowling : hmm. I'm not particularly devastated that Archer can't play : to put it in perspective , he's played eight Tests and England have won two of them and lost four so it's not as if he's exactly a talisman. But to have him dropping out on a day when the other extreme pace man in Wood is apparently not fit for purpose - and Anderson likewise - has left the attack looking a bit light. The three that are picked are all good bowlers but perhaps there is a dimension missing ?

Gabriel hasn't found his radar yet ...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Yeah the batting is significantly strengthened here with the enforced changes - a good by product of Woakes and Curran being in reserve.

Yep, Bess going from 8 to 10 should certainly reflect a much stronger tail.

On a different theme and I hope we don't find out the answer for sure until well into tomorrow but which England pair are going to share the new ball?

Awful couple of overs from Gabriel.

Holder needs to haul himself on.

Roach and Gabriel all over the place here so far

Yeah they might be a bit too revved up this morning...rather a waste so far...movement there but they've not done anything with it.

England pair won't mind

guildfordbat wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Yeah the batting is significantly strengthened here with the enforced changes - a good by product of Woakes and Curran being in reserve.

Yep, Bess going from 8 to 10 should certainly reflect  a much stronger tail.

On a different theme and I hope we don't find out the answer for sure until well into tomorrow but which England pair are going to share the new ball?

Test Centurions at eight - and elevenNot that common , I suspect.

Yep, poor bowling by the Windies. However, we're not running away with things. Only 16 off 9 overs and 5 runs came from one wide ball. Hopefully though this will allow Burns and Sibley to settle in and go on properly.

Incidentally, poor bowling doesn't mean Holder made the wrong call on winning the toss.

No. I think Root would have fielded first too. Captain can't predict his bowlers are going to have a rotten start. Conditions might be challenging most of the day anyway : as Benaud used to say , what counts when you put a team in is the score at end of day...

Apparently bowling first under clouds doesnt automatically mean you win the game.

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Yeah the batting is significantly strengthened here with the enforced changes - a good by product of Woakes and Curran being in reserve.

Yep, Bess going from 8 to 10 should certainly reflect  a much stronger tail.

On a different theme and I hope we don't find out the answer for sure until well into tomorrow but which England pair are going to share the new ball?

Test Centurions at eight - and elevenNot that common , I suspect.

Apparently Broad came up in the top 15 of the cricinfo all time number 9 batsmen (its not clear which is him and which is his dad). Must be one of the strongest "tails" in test cricket, although some would argue it starts at Buttler.

One of those "nice to haves" England missed in the last test but which in previous years has bailed them out on a number of occasions. With West Indies being very much a bowling team a swashbuckling 40 from just one the bottom 4 could make a massive difference.

..although now I see a stat that no Old Trafford Test has ever been won by a team that chose to bowl first ! Not sure that can be right ? Surely there have been more than 8 "send in" choices at the ground in all the years Tests have been played here?

alfie wrote:..although now I see a stat that no Old Trafford Test has ever been won by a team that chose to bowl first ! Not sure that can be right ? Surely there have been more than 8 "send in" choices at the ground in all the years Tests have been played here?

Andy Zaltzman on the BBC sport live text feed: "Before today, there had been 19 Tests in a row on this ground where the team that won the toss chose to bat."

Out to the part time spinner with the new ball on a grey day first digs .....

Theyve just been talking on TMS about the Miracle ball Warne test here where Aus put England in and then took most of the wickets with spin!

Yes, Root confirmed he would have bowled first had he won the toss.

Wasn't the wrong call by Holder, quite the opposite, but Roach and Gabriel (the latter especially) bowled terribly with the new ball.

Oh hello, Chase does for Burns with a neat delivery. Burns throws away the review for no good reason. Plumb as plumb can be. Wonder if Chase will take 8-for again?

Still a good session for England, but that's given the tourists a much needed lift.

Why do England play Roston Chase like he's Murali

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Why do England play Roston Chase like he's Murali

Burns playing for spin like he's batting on a day five pitch there...dreadful

Not Burn's best moment . Out to a part time spinner on day one...and also "burns" a referral with a Shane Watson review call.

Lunch. Next session start again. If Chase stays on I hope Sibley continues to find singles to get off strike...

alfie wrote:..although now I see a stat that no Old Trafford Test has ever been won by a team that chose to bowl first ! Not sure that can be right ? Surely there have been more than 8 "send in" choices at the ground in all the years Tests have been played here?

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_fielding_first=2;class=1;filter=advanced;ground=75;orderby=start;template=results;toss=1;type=team;view=results

Seven draws and one loss apparently. The loss containing Warne's famous ball to Gatting.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Why do England play Roston Chase like he's Murali

Burns playing for spin like he's batting on a day five pitch there...dreadful

Don't know what was worse - the way he played it, or the fact that he reviewed it!

Gooseberry wrote:Out to the part time spinner with the new ball on a grey day first digs .....

Theyve just been talking on TMS about the Miracle ball Warne test here where Aus put England in and then took most of the wickets with spin!

The sometimes maligned Lloyd (and tbf sometimes it's justified) had been calling on Sky for Chase to have a bowl before lunch. Good call from him and even more from Holder to go with the spinner. I was getting ready to type that it had been a comfortable settling in reduced session for England - scoreboard looks different now.

A poor and wasted review as well by Burns. He seemed reluctant to use it and Sibley should have told him not to. Just because you have an extra review in this series is no reason to throw it away.

Didn't realise this had started. Then I wish I hadn't checked the score when I see Roston The Wrecker up to his old tricks!

That's some Shane Watson level reviewing there from Burns. A disappointing end to the session shall we say!

If England can hunker down and make a total here then Rory will have to spend a day and a half kicking himself around the changing rooms.

It looks a good batting wicket. I'm not sure which side that favours more. Windies have a bit more pace in Gabriel and they've got Holder's height/class/ability to bowl long probing spells. England have a stronger spinner to hold down an end (though England are making Chase look more threatening than he is...) and Stokes can bowl threatening spells on flatter tracks.

I have a feeling that this England attack will look like lethal if the ball nibbles about but could look pretty innocuous if the pitch really flattens out and it's clear overhead.

I think it will flatten out on days 2 and 3. We need a first innings total on a pitch like this.

Pity about the wicket before lunch.

Some thoughts. Archer? Complete idiot. First Test loss? Should have bowled first, Stokes underbowled himself, would have WI have won if they had been four down before lunch on the last day as they should have been.

This Test - England are usually at their most dangerous having lost a home Test. I can't remember the last time they lost two home Tests in a row. It may be some time back. (Away Tests are a different story).

Still think this current batting line up is the weakest England have had for years in terms of experience and first-class averages. Eng have really only got one experienced and class front-line batsman and he didn't even play in the first Test.

Really hoping that Pope can have a good summer. I would like to see him at 5 and Stokes at 6.

And can we please have less of the "good for cricket that Windies are doing well". I want to see England beating them regularly as they did in the Noughties. Those with long memories will recall that England once went SIXTEEN YEARS without winning a single Test against the Windies.

OFFS

Bring back Denly

Honestly I wonder sometimes why teams don't just play 5 spinners against England everytime

On a seaming pitch WI bowls first...introduces their part-time spinner within the first 15 overs..... who plucks out 2 wickets
Wow.....Long highlights worth watching tonight

Umpires doing better so far this time : umps 2 - drs 0

Now the Windies have binned a review.

But will it matter with prime Shane Warne Roston Chase at the other end? There was speculation earlier that significant cracks could develop on the pitch by day four - England will be in big trouble if that happens.