The Covid-19 serious chat thread

[JuliusHMarx]

First topic message reminder :

Self-isolating, social distancing, locked down thread split.

[navyblueshorts]

'Nuff said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/01/boris-johnson-covid-pandemic-lockdown/617546/

[WELL-PAST-IT]

My apologies to BJ for thinking it would be later this week when the lock down would begin, just three weeks late, not 3 and a half.

NBS, just thinking of those businesses that had to close down overnight and getting the message out to their employees about whether they were to turn up today, get any home working organised, things like that.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

'Nuff said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/01/boris-johnson-covid-pandemic-lockdown/617546/

I haven't read the article, but the headline is perfect when you think that Sunday schools were going to open, Monday they were all closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/05/school-boris-johnson-national-lockdown-prime-minister-mistakes

[navyblueshorts]

'Nuff said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/01/boris-johnson-covid-pandemic-lockdown/617546/

I haven't read the article, but the headline is perfect when you think that Sunday schools were going to open, Monday they were all closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/05/school-boris-johnson-national-lockdown-prime-minister-mistakes

It's worth a read. I particularly like the following bit, especially the last paragraph (my highlight) that has been implicit all along but too many people - UKG(?) and definitely the public w/ their behaviour - have totally ignored:

Johnson’s alibi now is that he did learn the lessons of the first wave—he just got unlucky. His argument, articulated in the evening broadcast announcing the lockdown, is that a new and far more contagious variant of the disease emerged in England this fall, destroying the government’s successful suppression of the virus. The government’s strategy, he said, would have worked if it weren’t for the new strain.

And this is, at least to some degree, true. Evidence suggests that the new strain is more contagious and could well be partly responsible for the rapid surge in cases across Britain. As one expert noted to me, it has been a bit like someone who was managing just fine with mortgage payments while interest rates were at 4 percent suddenly, and without warning, having to make payments when the interest rate rises to 6 percent, a 50 percent increase.

Yet isn’t the point that homeowners—let alone governments—must plan for these scenarios? Governments cannot blame the failure of their policies on viruses not behaving as expected, just as homeowners cannot complain to the bank if they can’t afford their mortgage.

In any case, the higher the prevalence of the virus, the more likely it is that significant mutations will occur. By not suppressing COVID-19 more effectively, Britain was increasing the chance of a mutation doing exactly what it did. It is not even the only variant in Britain—another has been imported from South Africa, seeping through the country’s porous borders with apparent ease.

This is a new human pathogen. It's still adapting to/optimising within its new host. If we don't get a variant that escapes the current vaccines, I'll be surprised. Current behaviours by too many of the general public here, in the US and some other places is not conducive to preventing this sort of thing from happening.

[navyblueshorts]

My apologies to BJ for thinking it would be later this week when the lock down would begin, just three weeks late, not 3 and a half.

NBS, just thinking of those businesses that had to close down overnight and getting the message out to their employees about whether they were to turn up today, get any home working organised, things like that.

I think UKG placed too much hope/faith that they would dodge this bullet. It was a political calculation to a large extent when there were no 'good' solutions. Could we have had a longer lockdown, earlier? Yep, clearly we could and IMO we should have extended the Nov lockdown more stringently through Christmas. I think there was a feeling that, despite the nonsense British stereotype of 'stiff upper lip' (maybe it once existed; not now though as too many far too selfish), too many were going to ignore advice and have a 'good' Christmas period whatever.

I agree re. businesses etc. Must be nigh on impossible to know what's going on from one week to the next just now.

Johnson's tendency is to promise too much and then have to row back. However, everyone hates the inevitable disappointments that such an approach brings. Much better, IMO, to start hard and then, if appropriate, ease off a little. That way people don't get their hopes up and see the little relaxations as unexpected, but welcome, bonuses. Johnson seems to be simply a worse version re. this sort of behaviour than most other politicians - in general, they can't resist over-promising in the first place.

[navyblueshorts]

'Nuff said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/01/boris-johnson-covid-pandemic-lockdown/617546/

I haven't read the article, but the headline is perfect when you think that Sunday schools were going to open, Monday they were all closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/05/school-boris-johnson-national-lockdown-prime-minister-mistakes

It's an interesting Guardian opinion piece, I'll grant you (and I agree w/ a lot of it) but I can't help feeling that the tone of it (as is common in too many of these things these days) doesn't help the wider political narrative at all, especially now. It's, frankly, actively insulting in its tone while being dressed up as 'funny' or 'witty' (it's not). OK, I guess, if one buys into Johnson auto-hatred, but otherwise not. The tone of it will likely make those who lean right politically simply dig their heels in and become more entrenched.

I'd far rather read a well-written and researched piece that's written in a coldly clear manner, w/o the insults and the poor attempts at sarcasm etc.

[lostinwales]

The number one failure all the way through has been communication.

[navyblueshorts]

The number one failure all the way through has been communication.

To a good extent, I'd agree. A lack of a realisation of how selfish too many British people now are (and to therefore set policy in accordance) has also been a major problem, even though no politician dare say so publicly.

[lostinwales]

The number one failure all the way through has been communication.

To a good extent, I'd agree. A lack of a realisation of how selfish too many British people now are (and to therefore set policy in accordance) has also been a major problem, even though no politician dare say so publicly.

Yes that is a factor, but I think it would have been less of a factor if the government had worked harder to get everyone onboard with what is going on - which goes back to communication. Of course there are always people who won't give an F.., but a lot more don't because the government doesn't seem to either. Not hanging Cummings out to dry when he went to Barnard Castle will have been responsible for far too many deaths.

I know I have said this before but compare and contrast with Cuomo in NY who, despite a very difficult situation (and it seems a number of very serious mistakes early on), managed communication much better, largely got on top of the situation and kept his popularity.

Johnson just seems to have such a poor command of facts and detail. Its all hopes, dreams and verbal flourishes.

[BigGee]

Well i have just had my AZ jab today

Lets hope it works!

[Samo]

The number one failure all the way through has been communication.

To a good extent, I'd agree. A lack of a realisation of how selfish too many British people now are (and to therefore set policy in accordance) has also been a major problem, even though no politician dare say so publicly.

Yes that is a factor, but I think it would have been less of a factor if the government had worked harder to get everyone onboard with what is going on - which goes back to communication. Of course there are always people who won't give an F.., but a lot more don't because the government doesn't seem to either. Not hanging Cummings out to dry when he went to Barnard Castle will have been responsible for far too many deaths.

I know I have said this before but compare and contrast with Cuomo in NY who, despite a very difficult situation (and it seems a number of very serious mistakes early on), managed communication much better, largely got on top of the situation and kept his popularity.

Johnson just seems to have such a poor command of facts and detail. Its all hopes, dreams and verbal flourishes.

Johnson (like most right wing politicians these days) is a populist. He has never offered anything other than soundbites and catchphrases. He says what the people want to hear to advance his career. He's always done it, he always will do it. Unfortunately for him a national crisis is a death knell for populism. Platitudes and pithy slogans dont work during crises.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

The number one failure all the way through has been communication.

To a good extent, I'd agree. A lack of a realisation of how selfish too many British people now are (and to therefore set policy in accordance) has also been a major problem, even though no politician dare say so publicly.

Not an excuse for their behaviour, but the lack of action on the Cummings fiasco and the other untouchables (BJ father included) misdemeanours had an effect on how people reacted towards the "rules"

Another anomaly that I heard was that paramedics are not being offered the vaccine in line with other front line staff. Perhaps BigGee can conform this or otherwise. These are the people in first contact with infected people and are just as much as risk as any other NHS personnel, especially if they are treating people in their ambulances.

One other anomaly I saw was that staff treating the patients in general Covid wards are not being given the same masks as those on the ICU wards. Is the virus less infectious on the general wards? The people are not as sick, but I would not thought the virus was any different.

[lostinwales]

'Nuff said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/01/boris-johnson-covid-pandemic-lockdown/617546/

I haven't read the article, but the headline is perfect when you think that Sunday schools were going to open, Monday they were all closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/05/school-boris-johnson-national-lockdown-prime-minister-mistakes

It's an interesting Guardian opinion piece, I'll grant you (and I agree w/ a lot of it) but I can't help feeling that the tone of it (as is common in too many of these things these days) doesn't help the wider political narrative at all, especially now. It's, frankly, actively insulting in its tone while being dressed up as 'funny' or 'witty' (it's not). OK, I guess, if one buys into Johnson auto-hatred, but otherwise not. The tone of it will likely make those who lean right politically simply dig their heels in and become more entrenched.

I'd far rather read a well-written and researched piece that's written in a coldly clear manner, w/o the insults and the poor attempts at sarcasm etc.

To be fair Marina Hyde's job is just writing funny/satirical pieces like that. Her standard is surprisingly good but she has written better than that.

[navyblueshorts]

Well i have just had my AZ jab today

Lets hope it works!

Yeah...

[navyblueshorts]

The number one failure all the way through has been communication.

To a good extent, I'd agree. A lack of a realisation of how selfish too many British people now are (and to therefore set policy in accordance) has also been a major problem, even though no politician dare say so publicly.

Not an excuse for their behaviour, but the lack of action on the Cummings fiasco and the other untouchables (BJ father included) misdemeanours had an effect on how people reacted towards the "rules"...

To be fair to Johnson, he can't be held responsible for his father's actions and it's wrong to link them, except insofar as to perhaps look to explain the PM's behaviour in light of his father's i.e. Boris is somewhat a product of his upbringing.

I understand the link w/ Cummings' behaviour etc etc, but two wrongs never made a right. I suspect many are/were looking for justification for behaviours they were already undertaking, or wanted to justify. It's just an excuse and a pretty poor one at that. To be clear, the Cummings issue (in particular) and the way Ministers defended his conduct made me absolutely furious. I still haven't used it as an excuse to act like a d!ck though.

[navyblueshorts]

'Nuff said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/01/boris-johnson-covid-pandemic-lockdown/617546/

I haven't read the article, but the headline is perfect when you think that Sunday schools were going to open, Monday they were all closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/05/school-boris-johnson-national-lockdown-prime-minister-mistakes

It's an interesting Guardian opinion piece, I'll grant you (and I agree w/ a lot of it) but I can't help feeling that the tone of it (as is common in too many of these things these days) doesn't help the wider political narrative at all, especially now. It's, frankly, actively insulting in its tone while being dressed up as 'funny' or 'witty' (it's not). OK, I guess, if one buys into Johnson auto-hatred, but otherwise not. The tone of it will likely make those who lean right politically simply dig their heels in and become more entrenched.

I'd far rather read a well-written and researched piece that's written in a coldly clear manner, w/o the insults and the poor attempts at sarcasm etc.

To be fair Marina Hyde's job is just writing funny/satirical pieces like that. Her standard is surprisingly good but she has written better than that.

If it's her job, she should be sacked; or the Editor should be. It's not remotely constructive and just contributes to the continual lowering of journalistic standards and politics. Only plus point is she's simply writing for all those that already agree and/or think she's witty; I doubt many right-leaning readers would ever read her opinion pieces in the Guardian. I found it about as funny as, well, Covid to be honest.

[Pr4wn]

'Nuff said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/01/boris-johnson-covid-pandemic-lockdown/617546/

I haven't read the article, but the headline is perfect when you think that Sunday schools were going to open, Monday they were all closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/05/school-boris-johnson-national-lockdown-prime-minister-mistakes

It's an interesting Guardian opinion piece, I'll grant you (and I agree w/ a lot of it) but I can't help feeling that the tone of it (as is common in too many of these things these days) doesn't help the wider political narrative at all, especially now. It's, frankly, actively insulting in its tone while being dressed up as 'funny' or 'witty' (it's not). OK, I guess, if one buys into Johnson auto-hatred, but otherwise not. The tone of it will likely make those who lean right politically simply dig their heels in and become more entrenched.

I'd far rather read a well-written and researched piece that's written in a coldly clear manner, w/o the insults and the poor attempts at sarcasm etc.

To be fair Marina Hyde's job is just writing funny/satirical pieces like that. Her standard is surprisingly good but she has written better than that.

If it's her job, she should be sacked; or the Editor should be. It's not remotely constructive and just contributes to the continual lowering of journalistic standards and politics. Only plus point is she's simply writing for all those that already agree and/or think she's witty; I doubt many right-leaning readers would ever read her opinion pieces in the Guardian. I found it about as funny as, well, Covid to be honest.

The Editor should be sacked? Mate, get a grip. It's satire. That's what it's for. And Hyde is a multiple award-winning columnist, so she's going nowhere.

[Pr4wn]

As for this "pile on the government, hate everything they do" argument, it's a straw man. They've completely buggered up the response to this virus to the point that the UK had over 60,000 new cases yesterday alone. There's just no excuse for that.

[navyblueshorts]

'Nuff said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/01/boris-johnson-covid-pandemic-lockdown/617546/

I haven't read the article, but the headline is perfect when you think that Sunday schools were going to open, Monday they were all closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/05/school-boris-johnson-national-lockdown-prime-minister-mistakes

It's an interesting Guardian opinion piece, I'll grant you (and I agree w/ a lot of it) but I can't help feeling that the tone of it (as is common in too many of these things these days) doesn't help the wider political narrative at all, especially now. It's, frankly, actively insulting in its tone while being dressed up as 'funny' or 'witty' (it's not). OK, I guess, if one buys into Johnson auto-hatred, but otherwise not. The tone of it will likely make those who lean right politically simply dig their heels in and become more entrenched.

I'd far rather read a well-written and researched piece that's written in a coldly clear manner, w/o the insults and the poor attempts at sarcasm etc.

To be fair Marina Hyde's job is just writing funny/satirical pieces like that. Her standard is surprisingly good but she has written better than that.

If it's her job, she should be sacked; or the Editor should be. It's not remotely constructive and just contributes to the continual lowering of journalistic standards and politics. Only plus point is she's simply writing for all those that already agree and/or think she's witty; I doubt many right-leaning readers would ever read her opinion pieces in the Guardian. I found it about as funny as, well, Covid to be honest.

The Editor should be sacked? Mate, get a grip. It's satire. That's what it's for. And Hyde is a multiple award-winning columnist, so she's going nowhere.

I'm not sure I'd call is satire and I wasn't seriously thinking they should sack the Editor. It's a scheisse piece and doesn't remotely further decent discourse. Its tone is pathetic. If that's an example of what she produces in winning awards, I respectfully suggest the award isn't worth a lot.

[dummy_half]

The number one failure all the way through has been communication.

To a good extent, I'd agree. A lack of a realisation of how selfish too many British people now are (and to therefore set policy in accordance) has also been a major problem, even though no politician dare say so publicly.

Not an excuse for their behaviour, but the lack of action on the Cummings fiasco and the other untouchables (BJ father included) misdemeanours had an effect on how people reacted towards the "rules"...

To be fair to Johnson, he can't be held responsible for his father's actions and it's wrong to link them, except insofar as to perhaps look to explain the PM's behaviour in light of his father's i.e. Boris is somewhat a product of his upbringing.

I understand the link w/ Cummings' behaviour etc etc, but two wrongs never made a right. I suspect many are/were looking for justification for behaviours they were already undertaking, or wanted to justify. It's just an excuse and a pretty poor one at that. To be clear, the Cummings issue (in particular) and the way Ministers defended his conduct made me absolutely furious. I still haven't used it as an excuse to act like a d!ck though.

That's probably because you aren't a d1ck in the first place. Unlike our next door neighbours, who have basically ignored the lockdown restrictions throughout.

I agree that Cummings can only be blamed directly for his own actions, but it clearly sets a bad example and tacitly gives a green light to others who want to ignore the rules.

[lostinwales]

'Nuff said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/01/boris-johnson-covid-pandemic-lockdown/617546/

I haven't read the article, but the headline is perfect when you think that Sunday schools were going to open, Monday they were all closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/05/school-boris-johnson-national-lockdown-prime-minister-mistakes

It's an interesting Guardian opinion piece, I'll grant you (and I agree w/ a lot of it) but I can't help feeling that the tone of it (as is common in too many of these things these days) doesn't help the wider political narrative at all, especially now. It's, frankly, actively insulting in its tone while being dressed up as 'funny' or 'witty' (it's not). OK, I guess, if one buys into Johnson auto-hatred, but otherwise not. The tone of it will likely make those who lean right politically simply dig their heels in and become more entrenched.

I'd far rather read a well-written and researched piece that's written in a coldly clear manner, w/o the insults and the poor attempts at sarcasm etc.

To be fair Marina Hyde's job is just writing funny/satirical pieces like that. Her standard is surprisingly good but she has written better than that.

If it's her job, she should be sacked; or the Editor should be. It's not remotely constructive and just contributes to the continual lowering of journalistic standards and politics. Only plus point is she's simply writing for all those that already agree and/or think she's witty; I doubt many right-leaning readers would ever read her opinion pieces in the Guardian. I found it about as funny as, well, Covid to be honest.

The Editor should be sacked? Mate, get a grip. It's satire. That's what it's for. And Hyde is a multiple award-winning columnist, so she's going nowhere.

I'm not sure I'd call is satire and I wasn't seriously thinking they should sack the Editor. It's a scheisse piece and doesn't remotely further decent discourse. Its tone is pathetic. If that's an example of what she produces in winning awards, I respectfully suggest the award isn't worth a lot.

That is a subjective view. We don't have to agree. It is an opinion piece not news anyway.

It is hard keeping up a good standard for that kind of writing, and on average she does very well.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

When referring to Johnson's father, I was not suggesting that Johnson is responsible for his actions, but the party apparatus all came out to say that what he had done in going to Greece was okay instead of saying that they were disappointed and that as the PMs father it would have been good if he had set an example to us all, rather than mimic Cummings.

On another note, there has been 1 case of covid-19 reported in Brisbane; they have gone on a three day lockdown as a result. As the now quite rightly defunct character "Mr Punch" used to say "THATS THE WAY TO DO IT!"

[Samo]

Johnsons father on GMB this morning after receiving his SECOND dose of the vaccine whilst many key workers and vunerable people cant get their first - despite repeatedly flouting lockdown rules.

Get in the Frak bin. Hypocrisy, cronyism and elitism that is a hallmark of this shamble of a government.

[No 7&1/2]

Johnsons father on GMB this morning after receiving his SECOND dose of the vaccine whilst many key workers and vunerable people cant get their first - despite repeatedly flouting lockdown rules.

Get in the Frak bin. Hypocrisy, cronyism and elitism that is a hallmark of this shamble of a government.

Post code lottery. The Pfizer vacc is difficult to move to only certain areas have actually received it.

[king_carlos]

On another note, there has been 1 case of covid-19 reported in Brisbane; they have gone on a three day lockdown as a result.

The UKs daily death toll due to covid is now well in excess of the total death toll in Australia across the whole pandemic. Farcical.

[navyblueshorts]

Johnsons father on GMB this morning after receiving his SECOND dose of the vaccine whilst many key workers and vunerable people cant get their first - despite repeatedly flouting lockdown rules.

Get in the Frak bin. Hypocrisy, cronyism and elitism that is a hallmark of this shamble of a government.

Really? I didn't see it - assume he said he'd had dose two. It's possible - he's 80 and therefore in first tranche for vaccine. If first person was Dec 8th and three weeks between first and second doses, that would make it Dec 29th, at earliest, for the first individual to get both doses. Just coz it's Johnson sr., don't let your biases influence you too much.

[navyblueshorts]

On another note, there has been 1 case of covid-19 reported in Brisbane; they have gone on a three day lockdown as a result.

The UKs daily death toll due to covid is now well in excess of the total death toll in Australia across the whole pandemic. Farcical.

Goes to show what bit more forceful leadership, plus a population w/o a sense of FU entitlement, can do.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Johnsons father on GMB this morning after receiving his SECOND dose of the vaccine whilst many key workers and vunerable people cant get their first - despite repeatedly flouting lockdown rules.

Get in the Frak bin. Hypocrisy, cronyism and elitism that is a hallmark of this shamble of a government.

Really? I didn't see it - assume he said he'd had dose two. It's possible - he's 80 and therefore in first tranche for vaccine. If first person was Dec 8th and three weeks between first and second doses, that would make it Dec 29th, at earliest, for the first individual to get both doses. Just coz it's Johnson sr., don't let your biases influence you too much.

What are the odds on Johnson Snr being one of the very first people to receive both doses of the vaccine without any favouritism? He is 80, therefore there are hundreds of thousands of people older than him who have not received a first dose, never mind the second.

What happened to this 12 weeks between doses, that is supposed to be beneficial? That Johnson Snr has had his at three weeks makes me wonder if that is a load of the usual BS we get from this government.

[Soul Requiem]

Man in receiving vaccine shocker.

[No 7&1/2]

Johnsons father on GMB this morning after receiving his SECOND dose of the vaccine whilst many key workers and vunerable people cant get their first - despite repeatedly flouting lockdown rules.

Get in the Frak bin. Hypocrisy, cronyism and elitism that is a hallmark of this shamble of a government.

Really? I didn't see it - assume he said he'd had dose two. It's possible - he's 80 and therefore in first tranche for vaccine. If first person was Dec 8th and three weeks between first and second doses, that would make it Dec 29th, at earliest, for the first individual to get both doses. Just coz it's Johnson sr., don't let your biases influence you too much.

What are the odds on Johnson Snr being one of the very first people to receive both doses of the vaccine without any favouritism? He is 80, therefore there are hundreds of thousands of people older than him who have not received a first dose, never mind the second.

What happened to this 12 weeks between doses, that is supposed to be beneficial? That Johnson Snr has had his at three weeks makes me wonder if that is a load of the usual BS we get from this government.

Patients are simply pulled from a query. It's only 80s and over at present so doesnt matter of you're 80 or 120 you stand as much chance in areas which have the vaccine on being first up. Re the 3 weeks it's now confirmed from now people wont get a second in 3 weeks. Before now it was possible. Understandable to be cynical given how deeply corrupt this government is however.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

That BJs father just happened to be one of the first of hundreds of thousands over 80 to get the jab, the first was on 8th December, it was on 1st January that the government announced the 12 week period. Therefore Johnson Snr. must have had his first jab on the 8th or 9th of December.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55503739

The 12 week period has as far as I am aware not been approved by Pfizer who have only tested the vaccine over 21 days, so the government scientists are not following the scientific evidence of the manufacturer. I would not like to be them if it turns out not to be as effective after 12 weeks. It's bad enough with the UKG messing things up continually to give us the highest death rate in Europe, we don't need the so far reliable scientists doing the same.

Did anyone see that report about some fund in Bristol trying to buy up unused doses of the vaccine and offering NHS personnel £5K per dose or a similar donation to a charity of their choosing. £5K A DOSE?????????

One hell of a lucky chap, sort of like a reasonable win on the lottery sort of odds.

[Soul Requiem]

The difference between 95% for two doses efficacy and 91% for one dose is huge isn't it.

[No 7&1/2]

That BJs father just happened to be one of the first of hundreds of thousands over 80 to get the jab, the first was on 8th December, it was on 1st January that the government announced the 12 week period. Therefore Johnson Snr. must have had his first jab on the 8th or 9th of December.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55503739

The 12 week period has as far as I am aware not been approved by Pfizer who have only tested the vaccine over 21 days, so the government scientists are not following the scientific evidence of the manufacturer. I would not like to be them if it turns out not to be as effective after 12 weeks. It's bad enough with the UKG messing things up continually to give us the highest death rate in Europe, we don't need the so far reliable scientists doing the same.

Did anyone see that report about some fund in Bristol trying to buy up unused doses of the vaccine and offering NHS personnel £5K per dose or a similar donation to a charity of their choosing. £5K A DOSE?????????

One hell of a lucky chap, sort of like a reasonable win on the lottery sort of odds.

Quite possible. There were only a a relatively small amount of places where the vaccine could be transported and for it not to degrade. If he has a house there and hes not broken the rules to go to Greece.

[navyblueshorts]

Johnsons father on GMB this morning after receiving his SECOND dose of the vaccine whilst many key workers and vunerable people cant get their first - despite repeatedly flouting lockdown rules.

Get in the Frak bin. Hypocrisy, cronyism and elitism that is a hallmark of this shamble of a government.

Really? I didn't see it - assume he said he'd had dose two. It's possible - he's 80 and therefore in first tranche for vaccine. If first person was Dec 8th and three weeks between first and second doses, that would make it Dec 29th, at earliest, for the first individual to get both doses. Just coz it's Johnson sr., don't let your biases influence you too much.

What are the odds on Johnson Snr being one of the very first people to receive both doses of the vaccine without any favouritism? He is 80, therefore there are hundreds of thousands of people older than him who have not received a first dose, never mind the second.

What happened to this 12 weeks between doses, that is supposed to be beneficial? That Johnson Snr has had his at three weeks  makes me wonder if that is a load of the usual BS we get from this government.

Good grief. It's 80+. There's no differentiation within that group as far as you or I know. The early first jab people had their second jabs, which had already been arranged, completed. I know at least two couples who're 80+ and friends of my mum who've now had their second jabs. No, they're not related to Boris Johnson. Stop it w/ the conspiracies; it's embarrassing.

[navyblueshorts]

That BJs father just happened to be one of the first of hundreds of thousands over 80 to get the jab, the first was on 8th December, it was on 1st January that the government announced the 12 week period. Therefore Johnson Snr. must have had his first jab on the 8th or 9th of December.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55503739

The 12 week period has as far as I am aware not been approved by Pfizer who have only tested the vaccine over 21 days, so the government scientists are not following the scientific evidence of the manufacturer. I would not like to be them if it turns out not to be as effective after 12 weeks. It's bad enough with the UKG messing things up continually to give us the highest death rate in Europe, we don't need the so far reliable scientists doing the same.

Seriously, stop it.

Did anyone see that report about some fund in Bristol trying to buy up unused doses of the vaccine and offering NHS personnel £5K per dose or a similar donation to a charity of their choosing. £5K A DOSE?????????

One hell of a lucky chap, sort of like a reasonable win on the lottery sort of odds.

Yeah, pretty scummy trying to buy up vaccines just because you're loaded in order to jump a queue. There are no "unused" doses just now.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Johnsons father on GMB this morning after receiving his SECOND dose of the vaccine whilst many key workers and vunerable people cant get their first - despite repeatedly flouting lockdown rules.

Get in the Frak bin. Hypocrisy, cronyism and elitism that is a hallmark of this shamble of a government.

Really? I didn't see it - assume he said he'd had dose two. It's possible - he's 80 and therefore in first tranche for vaccine. If first person was Dec 8th and three weeks between first and second doses, that would make it Dec 29th, at earliest, for the first individual to get both doses. Just coz it's Johnson sr., don't let your biases influence you too much.

What are the odds on Johnson Snr being one of the very first people to receive both doses of the vaccine without any favouritism? He is 80, therefore there are hundreds of thousands of people older than him who have not received a first dose, never mind the second.

What happened to this 12 weeks between doses, that is supposed to be beneficial? That Johnson Snr has had his at three weeks  makes me wonder if that is a load of the usual BS we get from this government.

Good grief. It's 80+. There's no differentiation within that group as far as you or I know. The early first jab people had their second jabs, which had already been arranged, completed. I know at least two couples who're 80+ and friends of my mum who've now had their second jabs. No, they're not related to Boris Johnson. Stop it w/ the conspiracies; it's embarrassing.

I am not aware of any conspiracy theories being aired, I merely put forward the facts and let other people make up their own minds. The vaccine was rolled out starting on 8th December, i believe that in the first few days they took it slowly, one to get the procedures right and two due to their being only a limited amount of vaccine available.
so I simply asked, what are the odds on Johnson senior being in the first few hundred people vaccinated out of all the hundreds of thousands of over 80s.

What is worse in my opinion is his attitude / lack of knowledge as to what he believes he can now do:

"I am very much looking forward to it. I'm going to be fancy free after that.

"One thing that is not quite clear to me is what rules will apply to people who have [had both jabs], will we get a get out of jail free card?

"We'll still have to be locked down even though we've been notionally been released."

This is the father of the PM, he should now exactly what he should be doing and making sure he does it in an exemplary manner to act as a role model for others.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

That BJs father just happened to be one of the first of hundreds of thousands over 80 to get the jab, the first was on 8th December, it was on 1st January that the government announced the 12 week period. Therefore Johnson Snr. must have had his first jab on the 8th or 9th of December.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55503739

The 12 week period has as far as I am aware not been approved by Pfizer who have only tested the vaccine over 21 days, so the government scientists are not following the scientific evidence of the manufacturer. I would not like to be them if it turns out not to be as effective after 12 weeks. It's bad enough with the UKG messing things up continually to give us the highest death rate in Europe, we don't need the so far reliable scientists doing the same.

Did anyone see that report about some fund in Bristol trying to buy up unused doses of the vaccine and offering NHS personnel £5K per dose or a similar donation to a charity of their choosing. £5K A DOSE?????????

One hell of a lucky chap, sort of like a reasonable win on the lottery sort of odds.

Quite possible. There were only a a relatively small amount of places where the vaccine could be transported and for it not to degrade. If he has a house there and hes not broken the rules to go to Greece.

7&1/2, this was in lockdown 1 in July when he wasn't "allowed" to go. He said he went to ensure that the house he has in Greece and lets out was "Covid" proof.

One, there is no such thing as a house that is covid proof, it depends on the people living their

Two, his local agent in Greece will know far more about local restrictions and what is necessary than he will.

I seem to remember other transgressions by him as well.

To top it all, now his son has made such a mess of this country he has applied for a French passport

[navyblueshorts]

Despite my continued view that there's really little excuse for the general public not behaving re. Covid, it's amazing how Johnson et al either don't get, or don't give a 4X about these sort of optics, regardless of whether he might even be technically OK:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-cycle-7-miles-downing-street-olympic-park-b827961.html

[WELL-PAST-IT]

NBS, I was just going to link that as well. Travelling outside of his locale 7 miles I believe, cycling along chatting to another man, no mask. 4 security police following, can't blame them, essential work, but BJ forcing others to break the rules to accommodate him.

Downing street refuses to say whether he was driven to and from the park, but he certainly would not have cycled there and as, despite what he might personally think of himself, he is not Superman and cannot fly, so driven, unnecessary journeys.

After Cummings you would think even the thickest politician would learn, but apparently not. Do as I say, not as I do.

Unless of course he was testing his eye sight in a park rather than on the roads which is more sensible if just as unbelievable than Cummings.

EDIT

I have corrected the above, the picture that came through on my phone was apparently a stock photo, so I do not know if he was wearing one or not.

[navyblueshorts]

NBS, I was just going to link that as well. Travelling outside of his locale 7 miles I believe, cycling along chatting to another man, no mask. 4 security police following, can't blame them, essential work, but BJ forcing others to break the rules to accommodate him.

Downing street refuses to say whether he was driven to and from the park, but he certainly would not have cycled there and as, despite what he might personally think of himself, he is not Superman and cannot fly, so driven, unnecessary journeys.

After Cummings you would think even the thickest politician would learn, but apparently not. Do as I say, not as I do.

Unless of course he was testing his eye sight in a park rather than on the roads which is more sensible if just as unbelievable than Cummings.

Tend to agree, although masks aren't compulsory outside. Was he ~2m from anyone else?

I think this sort of thing just highlights the lack of self-awareness and/or FU narcissism that exists in far too many British people. Politicians, as a whole class, unfortunately are just a mirror or sample of the wider population and the idea that one should be in any way an exemplar as a MP these days has long since vanished.

[BamBam]

At least Tory donors are doing well out of this crisis. They've surpassed themselves this time round - £30 for hungry kids meals actually means £5 of food and £25 of "associated costs" directed into their own pockets

https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1348749702729244679?s=20

The previous voucher scheme was obviously a terrible idea, having those "used as payment in crack dens" is far worse than having them directed into Tory donors pockets !

Its not even whole vegetables ffs, who the Frak decided halving a pepper and cutting the end off a cucumber was acceptable?

[lostinwales]

At least Tory donors are doing well out of this crisis. They've surpassed themselves this time round - £30 for hungry kids meals actually means £5 of food and £25 of "associated costs" directed into their own pockets

https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1348749702729244679?s=20

The previous voucher scheme was obviously a terrible idea, having those "used as payment in crack dens" is far worse than having them directed into Tory donors pockets !

Its not even whole vegetables ffs, who the Frak decided halving a pepper and cutting the end off a cucumber was acceptable?

It is important that the money is spent in Conservative sponsored crack dens.

It is appalling. The DFE are now apparently looking into this, but I'd bet it is only on the back of the uproar that the food parcels have caused. Just for once you'd like to think they were ahead of the curve but no.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

....and who will be held to account for this feed the rich and starve the poor for profits contract, NO ONE thats who.

I was lucky, despite a very working class up bringing, I never went hungry. My wife on the other hand did, she relied on her school meal for the only meals she was likely to get that day. Weekends it was possible she would get virtually nothing. She is going mental over this.

[navyblueshorts]

At least Tory donors are doing well out of this crisis. They've surpassed themselves this time round - £30 for hungry kids meals actually means £5 of food and £25 of "associated costs" directed into their own pockets

https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1348749702729244679?s=20

The previous voucher scheme was obviously a terrible idea, having those "used as payment in crack dens" is far worse than having them directed into Tory donors pockets !

Its not even whole vegetables ffs, who the Frak decided halving a pepper and cutting the end off a cucumber was acceptable?

Have you got a bit more info, please? I'm not across all social media and your link is just to a photo w/ a slightly enigmatic comment from Rashford.

....and who will be held to account for this feed the rich and starve the poor for profits contract, NO ONE thats who.

I was lucky, despite a very working class up bringing, I never went hungry. My wife on the other hand did, she relied on her school meal for the only meals she was likely to get that day. Weekends it was possible she would get virtually nothing. She is going mental over this.

I suspect you're right, but let's wait and see. People have a chance to make MPs accountable every 4/5 years, but they either don't or they can't w/ our utterly childish electoral system.

[Derbymanc]

It's the picture of the food parcels sent out to families that needed it, apparently it's worth 30 quid

[BamBam]

Have you got a bit more info, please? I'm not across all social media and your link is just to a photo w/ a slightly enigmatic comment from Rashford.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/12/not-good-enough-marcus-rashford-condemns-free-school-meal-packages

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-12/free-school-meals-parents-blast-woefully-inadequate-food-parcels-for-children-learning-at-home

This is the best I can do from the traditional media without using the likes of the Sun or Mail, but there's plenty of people tweeting about it if you do use Twitter

[WELL-PAST-IT]

NBS

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9137379/Marcus-Rashford-blasts-unacceptable-food-parcel-supposed-feed-family-three-days.html

This is one of many floating around the press

[No 7&1/2]

At least Tory donors are doing well out of this crisis. They've surpassed themselves this time round - £30 for hungry kids meals actually means £5 of food and £25 of "associated costs" directed into their own pockets

https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1348749702729244679?s=20

The previous voucher scheme was obviously a terrible idea, having those "used as payment in crack dens" is far worse than having them directed into Tory donors pockets !

Its not even whole vegetables ffs, who the Frak decided halving a pepper and cutting the end off a cucumber was acceptable?

My local crack den is still accepting slightly off bananas post brexit so quids in.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

I heard on the radio this morning that some London hospitals are sending non-covid patients to the Nightingale Hospital. I am sure that I will be corrected if I am wrong, but wasn't the Nightingale Hospital "built" as a specialist covid unit with all the necessary spacing and equipment to treat seriously ill covid-19 patients.

Surely, freeing up ordinary hospital beds that are being used by covid patients by transferring them to the Nightingale would make more sense? Each "bed "being used for what it was originally designed for.

[lostinwales]

I heard on the radio this morning that some London hospitals are sending non-covid patients to the Nightingale Hospital. I am sure that I will be corrected if I am wrong, but wasn't the Nightingale Hospital "built" as a specialist covid unit with all the necessary spacing and equipment to treat seriously ill covid-19 patients.

Surely, freeing up ordinary hospital beds that are being used by covid patients by transferring them to the Nightingale would make more sense? Each "bed "being used for what it was originally designed for.

Staffing is the fundamental issue with all of this and, because of that to be honest doing things this way around seems to make much more sense. Key staff are those trained for intensive care. I would have thought it would be much easier to pull in retired etc staff who are not specialist to staff the nightingale than to pull front line staff from overwhelmed hostpitals.

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