The Covid-19 serious chat thread

[JuliusHMarx]

First topic message reminder :

Self-isolating, social distancing, locked down thread split.

[No 7&1/2]

You also have the issue that people are identified with covid once in hospital. So you're impacting transport services to move ie ambulances. Ambulance services are already stretched to the limit meaning that patients are waiting in community settings longer and often accompanied by other services ie community nursing or police etc.

[Pr4wn]

What I find interesting is that ministers and posters here are very keen to emphasise personal responsibility when it comes to Covid, and rightly so.

But they all appear less keen to insist that the government take responsibility for its own numerous failings.

[LordDowlais]

But they all appear less keen to insist that the government take responsibility for its own numerous failings.

The governments biggest failings were not closing our borders from the outset. Don't get me wrong, we still need to import and export, but stupid things like business meetings, holidays, all should have been stopped.

[Pr4wn]

Until last week, you didn't need a negative test before arriving in the UK. That's absolute madness.

I had to get a negative test to take a domestic flight in the Philippines.

[BamBam]

Marcus Rashford has had a word with the PM

https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1349310804064137218?s=20

Just had a good conversation with the Prime Minister. He has assured me that he is committed to correcting the issue with the food hampers and that a full review of the supply chain is taking place. He agrees that images of hampers being shared on Twitter are unacceptable.

So that means the PM thinks the hampers are Poopie, the company who provided them said they're Poopie and people who received them think they're Poopie.

Wonder what it will take for the right wing internet hard nuts to admit that perhaps arguing for it to be acceptable for hungry children to receive half a pepper for a week might not be the right side of the debate

[LordDowlais]

Marcus Rashford has had a word with the PM

https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1349310804064137218?s=20

Just had a good conversation with the Prime Minister. He has assured me that he is committed to correcting the issue with the food hampers and that a full review of the supply chain is taking place. He agrees that images of hampers being shared on Twitter are unacceptable.

So that means the PM thinks the hampers are Poopie, the company who provided them said they're Poopie and people who received them think they're Poopie.

Wonder what it will take for the right wing internet hard nuts to admit that perhaps arguing for it to be acceptable for hungry children to receive half a pepper for a week might not be the right side of the debate

The government should just issue food vouchers and let the parents get what they know their kids like to eat.

[king_carlos]

A photo from Empty Kitchens, Full Hearts in Edinburgh. A charity setup during the pandemic by chefs out of work due to hospitality businesses being decimated that takes surplus food donations and volunteers, uses them to feed those in need. That is what they prepare for £30. Breakfast, lunch and dinner for 60 people in crisis.

Most depressing of all is that when that charity which now feeds 1000 people a day wrote to the government seeking funding to expand they got back a 3 paragraph template letter signed by the Prime Minister and a Points of Light award - which for those who aren't aware is an A4 piece of paper with Points of Light in a large font.

[BamBam]

For once LD, we agree.

https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1349331054746857476

This is not an acceptable amount of food for a week. To charge the government £15 for a week and provide something that barely costs £5 is scandalous. The fact the government has sent this out as guidance for what they expect for their £15 is even worse

[Samo]

It was very therapeutic watching Piers Morgan rip Hancock to bits over this on GMB this morning.

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1349281812657430529?s=20

The most infuriating bit is that its going to be atleast 3 years until the next election and most of this will be forgotten about.

[Pr4wn]

What an absolutely contemptible human being Matt Hancock is.

[navyblueshorts]

Have you got a bit more info, please? I'm not across all social media and your link is just to a photo w/ a slightly enigmatic comment from Rashford.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/12/not-good-enough-marcus-rashford-condemns-free-school-meal-packages

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-12/free-school-meals-parents-blast-woefully-inadequate-food-parcels-for-children-learning-at-home

This is the best I can do from the traditional media without using the likes of the Sun or Mail, but there's plenty of people tweeting about it if you do use Twitter

Yeah, ta for that. Caught up w/ the story last night. Looks pretty despicable to me if what's being distributed is supposed to be worth £30. In the past, I would normally have been a bit anti simply giving the cash (don't know why w/ hindsight) or adding to existing benefit payments, but doing so would make the most sense.

[navyblueshorts]

I heard on the radio this morning that some London hospitals are sending non-covid patients to the Nightingale Hospital. I am sure that I will be corrected if I am wrong, but wasn't the Nightingale Hospital "built" as a specialist covid unit with all the necessary spacing and equipment to treat seriously ill covid-19 patients.

Surely, freeing up ordinary hospital beds that are being used by covid patients by transferring them to the Nightingale would make more sense? Each "bed "being used for what it was originally designed for.

Staffing is the fundamental issue with all of this and, because of that to be honest doing things this way around seems to make much more sense. Key staff are those trained for intensive care. I would have thought it would be much easier to pull in retired etc staff who are not specialist to staff the nightingale than to pull front line staff from overwhelmed hostpitals.

Aren't the Nightingales, specifically the newly opened London one, being used for long Covid etc rehabilitation and recovery, rather than acute care for Covid patients?

[BamBam]

I heard on the radio this morning that some London hospitals are sending non-covid patients to the Nightingale Hospital. I am sure that I will be corrected if I am wrong, but wasn't the Nightingale Hospital "built" as a specialist covid unit with all the necessary spacing and equipment to treat seriously ill covid-19 patients.

Surely, freeing up ordinary hospital beds that are being used by covid patients by transferring them to the Nightingale would make more sense? Each "bed "being used for what it was originally designed for.

Staffing is the fundamental issue with all of this and, because of that to be honest doing things this way around seems to make much more sense. Key staff are those trained for intensive care. I would have thought it would be much easier to pull in retired etc staff who are not specialist to staff the nightingale than to pull front line staff from overwhelmed hostpitals.

Aren't the Nightingales, specifically the newly opened London one, being used for long Covid etc rehabilitation and recovery, rather than acute care for Covid patients?

I thought the Nightingale in London was shown on TV just being kitted out with beds and ventilators. That was during the first lockdown though, so not sure if its changed

[navyblueshorts]

I heard on the radio this morning that some London hospitals are sending non-covid patients to the Nightingale Hospital. I am sure that I will be corrected if I am wrong, but wasn't the Nightingale Hospital "built" as a specialist covid unit with all the necessary spacing and equipment to treat seriously ill covid-19 patients.

Surely, freeing up ordinary hospital beds that are being used by covid patients by transferring them to the Nightingale would make more sense? Each "bed "being used for what it was originally designed for.

Staffing is the fundamental issue with all of this and, because of that to be honest doing things this way around seems to make much more sense. Key staff are those trained for intensive care. I would have thought it would be much easier to pull in retired etc staff who are not specialist to staff the nightingale than to pull front line staff from overwhelmed hostpitals.

Aren't the Nightingales, specifically the newly opened London one, being used for long Covid etc rehabilitation and recovery, rather than acute care for Covid patients?

I thought the Nightingale in London was shown on TV just being kitted out with beds and ventilators. That was during the first lockdown though, so not sure if its changed

Certainly was for the first spike. Thought I'd read something re. the recent readiness being for long Covid etc to free up space in hospitals more critically in need. Could be my fevered imagination though...

[WELL-PAST-IT]

I heard on the radio this morning that some London hospitals are sending non-covid patients to the Nightingale Hospital. I am sure that I will be corrected if I am wrong, but wasn't the Nightingale Hospital "built" as a specialist covid unit with all the necessary spacing and equipment to treat seriously ill covid-19 patients.

Surely, freeing up ordinary hospital beds that are being used by covid patients by transferring them to the Nightingale would make more sense? Each "bed "being used for what it was originally designed for.

Staffing is the fundamental issue with all of this and, because of that to be honest doing things this way around seems to make much more sense. Key staff are those trained for intensive care. I would have thought it would be much easier to pull in retired etc staff who are not specialist to staff the nightingale than to pull front line staff from overwhelmed hostpitals.

Aren't the Nightingales, specifically the newly opened London one, being used for long Covid etc rehabilitation and recovery, rather than acute care for Covid patients?

I thought the Nightingale in London was shown on TV just being kitted out with beds and ventilators. That was during the first lockdown though, so not sure if its changed

Certainly was for the first spike. Thought I'd read something re. the recent readiness being for long Covid etc to free up space in hospitals more critically in need. Could be my fevered imagination though...

That was my thinking.

[No 7&1/2]

The thought is to use them as step down beds ie intermediate care. Where do the staff come from for those beds though? Community trusts have been undergoing the same qipp/'efficiency savings' measures as the rest of the nhs for the last 10 years. The staff arent there. The other issue that while the initial plan was as basically emergency icus a lot of the nightingales were thus created without patient toilets as ICU patients dont need them. To have them as step downs creates an issue.

[BamBam]

Does anyone know what happened to the £20bn test and trace system? Has there ever been a bigger and more obvious failure by any UK government? I'm relatively young and only started engaging with politics in the last 15 years so I can't remember one

Maybe the anonymous chap who hands out all the dislikes on posts criticising the government would like to respond

[navyblueshorts]

Does anyone know what happened to the £20bn test and trace system? Has there ever been a bigger and more obvious failure by any UK government? I'm relatively young and only started engaging with politics in the last 15 years so I can't remember one

Maybe the anonymous chap who hands out all the dislikes on posts criticising the government would like to respond

The Poll Tax? Trying to appease Hitler? You're right though, it's pretty scheisse and any chat about its use or validity has gone suspiciously quiet.

With you 100% on the anonymous disliker. You'd think they might occasionally engage w/ the posts they appear to dislike, but that would require putting their head above the parapet I guess.

[king_carlos]

If we are taking single isolated fuster clucks then Windrush must be up there as a piece of incompetence.

Years of warnings from Caribbean leaders (on the agenda at the 2013 Commonwealth meeting and Hammond told directly in 2016 whilst foreign secretary) and it still rumbled on until the press picked it up in late 2017, then early 2018 before it reached Parliament.

British subjects wrongly detained, denied rights, threatened with deportation and in some cases deported in the name of the Hostile Environment Policy that just coincidentally made it hostile for a group of predominantly black citizens who had lived in the UK legally for most or all of their life.

[BamBam]

Does anyone know what happened to the £20bn test and trace system? Has there ever been a bigger and more obvious failure by any UK government? I'm relatively young and only started engaging with politics in the last 15 years so I can't remember one

Maybe the anonymous chap who hands out all the dislikes on posts criticising the government would like to respond

The Poll Tax? Trying to appease Hitler? You're right though, it's pretty scheisse and any chat about its use or validity has gone suspiciously quiet.

With you 100% on the anonymous disliker. You'd think they might occasionally engage w/ the posts they appear to dislike, but that would require putting their head above the parapet I guess.

Its pretty easy to see who it is by looking at the volume of likes / dislikes and timestamps of visits listed on the profile and comparing to when posts were disliked

The internet knows everything

[WELL-PAST-IT]

The BBC is reporting that Marcus Rashford and a group of celebrity chefs have written to BJ to get a review of the free school meals policy as they say it is obviously not fit for purpose. They called for a strategy to help "end child food poverty" before the summer holidays. No 10s reply was "No child will ever go hungry because of the Covid pandemic".

Sorry No 10, have you not seen the news lately, CHILDREN ARE GOING HUNGRY NOW because of the governments inability to get anything right, supplying £5 worth of food for £30+ to the supplier. This is because of the pandemic otherwise they would be at school and getting proper meals.

I just cannot see the point in bringing in a middle man who will have overheads and will make a profit even when they do things right in respect of the food, thus reducing the amount of money  to be spent on food for the children. It is a brain fart of an idea that sums up the current thinking of this government, the private sector will always do things better and cheaper than the public sector. Yeh, the railways went well didn't they.

Simple food vouchers or even better cash with their benefits is just so much simpler and better for everyone.  Yes, you will get the off person spending the money on other things, but the vast majority will go on what it is intended for, food for the kids.

[navyblueshorts]

Beginning to quite like The Atlantic. An interesting read:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/01/coronavirus-mutations-variants/617694/

[WELL-PAST-IT]

The BBC has reported that inside China the propaganda machine is now stating that the virus did not evolve in China, but was imported from Italy or Spain. Amazing how much BS people can swallow when all press and media are controlled.

[navyblueshorts]

The BBC has reported that inside China the propaganda machine is now stating that the virus did not evolve in China, but was imported from Italy or Spain. Amazing how much BS people can swallow when all press and media are controlled.

Which clearly explains why it was detected in Wuhan well before it was reported in Italy/Spain. Yep, people will believe a surprising amount of rubbish (see America), but the trouble China has here is that the rest of the World can smell BS on this one...

[lostinwales]

Spanish flu didn't start in Spain if I remember right, it was just the label used by the USA to shift blame.

First cases were reported in the USA.

Nothing changes.

[Soul Requiem]

Spanish flu didn't start in Spain if I remember right, it was just the label used by the USA to shift blame.

First cases were reported in the USA.

Nothing changes.

As a neutral country during the first world war the newspapers in Spain were free to report on it including their King being stricken with it.

[BamBam]

Piers Morgan skewering Brandon Lewis over not wanting to make international comparisons on death rates but constantly shouting about international comparisons on vaccine roll out was particularly amusing this morning. Shame he didn’t get on to the shambles at the NI border that Lewis has some responsibility for as NI minister

https://twitter.com/gmb/status/1351449282679894016?s=21

God they’re just all thick as mince, is there not one competent, decent person in the cabinet who won’t try and lie and squirm out of any difficult questioning?

[navyblueshorts]

Piers Morgan skewering Brandon Lewis over not wanting to make international comparisons on death rates but constantly shouting about international comparisons on vaccine roll out was particularly amusing this morning. Shame he didn’t get on to the shambles at the NI border that Lewis has some responsibility for as NI minister

https://twitter.com/gmb/status/1351449282679894016?s=21

God they’re just all thick as mince, is there not one competent, decent person in the cabinet who won’t try and lie and squirm out of any difficult questioning?

It's good that these people are challenged, but Morgan shouldn't be anywhere near media, and certainly not any prime time TV programme. The man is utter scum:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3716151.stm

[BamBam]

I think he’s a prize Mr Winklechops most of the time but he admitted he was wrong and suffered the consequences, so I’m not going to hold that against him forever

He’s done plenty of other things for me to think he’s a knob, his Trump worship being one of the big ones.

Still good to see him actually challenging the government bs, I’ve got far more of a problem with that than the indiscretions of a TV presenter

[Pr4wn]

End days when Morgan is considered to be the voice of reason.

[navyblueshorts]

I think he’s a prize Mr Winklechops most of the time but he admitted he was wrong and suffered the consequences, so I’m not going to hold that against him forever

He’s done plenty of other things for me to think he’s a knob, his Trump worship being one of the big ones.

Still good to see him actually challenging the government bs, I’ve got far more of a problem with that than the indiscretions of a TV presenter

Kind of agree, re. challenging UKG. However, personally, I think what he did was a lot more than an 'indiscretion'. He's scum and just likes to shout people down to boot.

Great country, this...

[lostinwales]

I think he’s a prize Mr Winklechops most of the time but he admitted he was wrong and suffered the consequences, so I’m not going to hold that against him forever

He’s done plenty of other things for me to think he’s a knob, his Trump worship being one of the big ones.

Still good to see him actually challenging the government bs, I’ve got far more of a problem with that than the indiscretions of a TV presenter

I don't actually think he has admitted to everything wrong that he did. But as for everything else he is at least asking the right questions, something that just is not happening enough.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Another 1800+ dead yesterday and Patel comes out and says that we should have shut the airports back in March. Not strictly related but I thought on the day a record death toll was announced you either shut up or apologise the families of the 90,000 or so that have died, many as a result of the UKG incompetence. You do not say that we got something wrong 10 months ago when they have got just about everything wrong for 10 months. Even now, 7 months after rollout, the £22 Billion, "world class" track and trace system is still failing but Harding is still running it, in any private enterprise should would have been sacked by September 20.

I have to give them some credit though for the vaccine rollout, I wonder if the army are planning it as it seems far to competent for this government.

[Pr4wn]

I don't recall her saying anything about it back then.

Someone is looking for a job post-Boris.

[No 7&1/2]

She called for the stopping of flights from.covid hotspots in march 2020. So not a full ban but she is always pretty pro stopping people coming to the uk, granted normally desperate people in dinghys.

[Pr4wn]

Haha she didn't specify which year. Pretty sure she called for the closure of borders in March 2016.

[No 7&1/2]

She may well done as well. Did so in march 2020 as I've said.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

She may well done as well. Did so in march 2020 as I've said.

No 7&1/2, I think Pr4wn was being just a little facetious with 2016. i.e. she would support a wall being built along the channel coast to keep out all the terrorist and drug runners, otherwise known to sensible people as either immigrants or refugees. Rich coming from a second generation immigrant.

[No 7&1/2]

Ah. Sorry then prawn.

[lostinwales]

She may well done as well. Did so in march 2020 as I've said.

No 7&1/2, I think Pr4wn was being just a little facetious with 2016. i.e. she would support a wall being built along the channel coast to keep out all the terrorist and drug runners, otherwise known to sensible people as either immigrants or refugees. Rich coming from a second generation immigrant.

Did you hear that her dad was a UKIP councillor? Just bizarre.

[BamBam]

The type happy to pull up the drawbridge behind them once they're in. Disgusting rats

[navyblueshorts]

Border closures would have made questionable difference in March, other than to tick a box and say 'Look! We're doing stuff.". It was rife here already and outbreaks were occurring all over the place.

The time that border closures would have made a significant difference was after the initial wave had died back and we didn't do it then either, which is inexcusable even if you give them a free pass around March.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

I do not understand how the vaccination system works with regard to distribution of the vaccine, we are in our mid/late 60s and have a slot on Saturday, friends in their late 70s who both have serious health problems  and are "vulnerable" have been told they will be done in mid February. Why is my local vac. centre in North Bucks centre getting vaccine so far ahead of those in South Bucks that people who are non-vulnerable and 10 years years younger are getting the jab before older more vulnerable people in South Bucks?

[BamBam]

https://twitter.com/pritipatel/status/1352301171684368385?s=20

House parties of 15+ mean a £800 fine which double up to £6400 for repeat offenders.

House parties of 14 are obviously absolutely fine, COVID just does a quick count and trots off to the next house party hoping to find one with 15+ people in it

[Duty281]

She may well done as well. Did so in march 2020 as I've said.

No 7&1/2, I think Pr4wn was being just a little facetious with 2016. i.e. she would support a wall being built along the channel coast to keep out all the terrorist and drug runners, otherwise known to sensible people as either immigrants or refugees. Rich coming from a second generation immigrant.

Did you hear that her dad was a UKIP councillor? Just bizarre.

Stood for, didn't get elected.

Priti Patel started out in the Referendum Party, so not so bizarre.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

She may well done as well. Did so in march 2020 as I've said.

No 7&1/2, I think Pr4wn was being just a little facetious with 2016. i.e. she would support a wall being built along the channel coast to keep out all the terrorist and drug runners, otherwise known to sensible people as either immigrants or refugees. Rich coming from a second generation immigrant.

Did you hear that her dad was a UKIP councillor? Just bizarre.

Stood for, didn't get elected.

Priti Patel started out in the Referendum Party, so not so bizarre.

Yeh, putting her in the same bed as Goldsmith is about right.

[No 7&1/2]

I do not understand how the vaccination system works with regard to distribution of the vaccine, we are in our mid/late 60s and have a slot on Saturday, friends in their late 70s who both have serious health problems  and are "vulnerable" have been told they will be done in mid February. Why is my local vac. centre in North Bucks centre getting vaccine so far ahead of those in South Bucks that people who are non-vulnerable and 10 years years younger are getting the jab before older more vulnerable people in South Bucks?

Dont worry vaccines are being directed away from Yorkshire now to other areas.

[Mind the windows Tino.]

House parties of 14 are obviously absolutely fine, COVID just does a quick count and trots off to the next house party hoping to find one with 15+ people in it

Do you not remember the 22:00 cut off time for pubs?

Covid is f*cking ace at both counting and telling the time.

[Scottrf]

I do not understand how the vaccination system works with regard to distribution of the vaccine, we are in our mid/late 60s and have a slot on Saturday, friends in their late 70s who both have serious health problems  and are "vulnerable" have been told they will be done in mid February. Why is my local vac. centre in North Bucks centre getting vaccine so far ahead of those in South Bucks that people who are non-vulnerable and 10 years years younger are getting the jab before older more vulnerable people in South Bucks?

Obviously it's a lot more complicated than that and will depend on vaccination centre capacity, staffing, population in each age group by area etc.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Reports in S. Bucks are that centres are staffed and ready to go, patients arrive and vaccine doesn't. Money being wasted staffing centres that get no vaccine when it is due.

Johnson now saying that the new variant may be responsible for the higher mortality

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