The golfers' Music Room

by Soul Requiem Wed 03 Jun 2020, 1:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

Cover wise it's hard to look past Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley, not usually my kind of thing but the haunting beauty of his voice is a guilty pleasure, one of the weaker songs on his only true album to be fair.

I love that Prince solo and i've always got to the end and thought the exact same thing 'where the **** did his guitar go?', can't go wrong with a bit of Stevie Ray Vaughan but not a fan of Hendrix being covered, it's near impossible to get the guitar tone right to do him justice but SRV does an admirable job.

by beninho Sat 06 Jun 2020, 11:04 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'd suggest that Grunge came about because of a cultural revolution in the late 80's.

Not sure, just think it was a term coined to lump rock bands together who came from the same area. Not a phrase I like. Soundfsrden, who I love, had been around since the early 80s, and Aic - dirt is obe of the great rock albums - were not really a "grunge" band.

Though, the grunge marketing and Nirvana helped a lot of groups sell more then they probably would have.

Well yes that the grunge scene is made up entirely of bands from the pacific Northwest but it goes far beyond that, it's born from the teen angst of the time and most certainly resulted in a cultural revolution in the youth of the late 80's. Alice in Chains were definitely a Grunge band, they like Soundgarden, Truly, Gruntruck, Love Battery and Green River combined the attitude of punk with the musical sensitivities of heavy metal, nobody encapsulated that more than AIC.

Grunge was a marketing ploy. Alice in Chains,Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden are all different.

by Soul Requiem Sat 06 Jun 2020, 11:10 am

I think you're missing the point of what Grunge is there Ben, it was a musical scene not a genre.

by beninho Sat 06 Jun 2020, 11:26 am

http://www.revolutioncomeandgone.com/articles/1/the-origin-of-grunge.php

Pretty interesting.

by super_realist Sat 06 Jun 2020, 11:29 am

Odd it doesn't mention Husker Du who are widely regarded of being the pioneers of that genre/scene, Bob Mould from that band did some decent stuff with a band called Sugar, which sounds like some terrible teen girl band's name but is worth a listen.

by Soul Requiem Sat 06 Jun 2020, 11:31 am

Interesting if you don't know the history of the bands and their inter connectivity, yes the sound may have varied but the scene itself did exist.

by beninho Sat 06 Jun 2020, 11:46 am

A music scene obviously existed the grunge tag was added on, primarily from Sub Pop it would seem and the term grunge was mainly marketing.

by beninho Sat 06 Jun 2020, 11:48 am

super_realist wrote:Odd it doesn't mention Husker Du who are widely regarded of being the pioneers of that genre/scene, Bob Mould from that band did some decent stuff with a band called Sugar, which sounds like some terrible teen girl band's name but is worth a listen.

Think its mainly on Seattle or Pacific North West bands.

by beninho Sat 06 Jun 2020, 11:52 am

What else we want to discuss?

Anyobe into the 90s dance music, the Chemicals? Fatboy? Just listened again to pacific state, which is still a remarkable song.

Stone Roses fans? John Squire could play guitar!

by beninho Sat 06 Jun 2020, 11:57 am

full on cocaine

by super_realist Sat 06 Jun 2020, 12:00 pm

beninho wrote:What else we want to discuss?

Anyobe into the 90s dance music, the Chemicals? Fatboy? Just listened again to pacific state, which is still a remarkable song.

Stone Roses fans? John Squire could play guitar!

Pacific State is outstanding, never a big Fatboy fan other than Santa Cruz, same with Chemicals other than Star Guitar (which is incidentaly the best music video of all time)

by beninho Sat 06 Jun 2020, 12:07 pm

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:What else we want to discuss?

Anyobe into the 90s dance music, the Chemicals? Fatboy? Just listened again to pacific state, which is still a remarkable song.

Stone Roses fans? John Squire could play guitar!

Pacific State is outstanding, never a big Fatboy fan other than Santa Cruz, same with Chemicals other than Star Guitar (which is incidentaly the best music video of all time)

It began in Africa is a banger. I remember being very stoned listening to star guitar it was like tripping. Great videos, in the same way, is around the world by daft punk. Who have also produced some crackers.

by Soul Requiem Sat 06 Jun 2020, 12:11 pm

beninho wrote:A music scene obviously existed the grunge tag was added on, primarily from Sub Pop it would seem and the term grunge was mainly marketing.

That happens with every music scene or genre, it exists and then gets labelled, whether it's Rock n Roll, Blues, Jazz or Grunge.

by super_realist Sat 06 Jun 2020, 12:27 pm

Speaking of genres, the one I find the worst of all is RnB

by kwinigolfer Sat 06 Jun 2020, 1:48 pm

super_realist wrote:Speaking of genres, the one I find the worst of all is RnB

Weird though isn't it?
When I started to listen to music, American R & B, with a smattering of Jazz and a good helping of the (Delta) Blues, was the genre that influenced and informed our listening habits and the British bands of the day.

It feels as if R & B has subsequently been hi-jacked and old-style Blues just about eliminated.

by super_realist Sat 06 Jun 2020, 1:53 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
super_realist wrote:Speaking of genres, the one I find the worst of all is RnB

Weird though isn't it?
When I started to listen to music, American R & B, with a smattering of Jazz and a good helping of the (Delta) Blues, was the genre that influenced and informed our listening habits and the British bands of the day.

It feels as if R & B has subsequently been hi-jacked and old-style Blues just about eliminated.

Just to clarify, I mean the Beyonce type nonsense

by kwinigolfer Sat 06 Jun 2020, 2:20 pm

Agree, That's what I mean by the thought that the name/phrase has been hi-jacked.
First concert I went to headlined Chuck Berry and included a pre-HOTRS-release Animals. In many ways it doesn't get much better than that.
Edit: Anyone else remember "Mike Raven's R & B Show" on the Beeb. About 50 years ago - essential listening at the time. Seemed he always had some Swamp Rock featured, usually Tony Joe White. Don't hear much of that any more.

by beninho Sat 06 Jun 2020, 2:27 pm

Rhythm and bass rather then rhythm and blues. It was a 90s thing, which I don't think has kept on that much, though I'm not up on popular music.

I wouldn't overly class beyonce in the same sphere, as brandi, usher or sone other the others. Though maybe a bit of destiny's chikd did fall into it.

On Beyonce though, crazy in love is a wonderful pop song. I love a good pop song.

by super_realist Sat 06 Jun 2020, 2:35 pm

beninho wrote:Rhythm and bass rather then rhythm and blues. It was a 90s thing, which I don't think has kept on that much, though I'm not up on popular music.

I wouldn't overly class beyonce in the same sphere, as brandi, usher or sone other the others. Though maybe a bit of destiny's chikd did fall into it.

On Beyonce though, crazy in love is a wonderful pop song. I love a good pop song.

I think you're meaning Drum and Bass Ben, people like Roni Size, LTJ Bukem, Blue Marten etc.

It's the warbling voice of RnB I can't stand. It's so contrived.

by beninho Sat 06 Jun 2020, 2:43 pm

R&b I remember reading that contemporary r&b was more rhythm and bass rather than the old rhythm and blues. I kniw its totally different to Goldie.

by beninho Sat 06 Jun 2020, 9:02 pm

Clapton documentary on BBC, well worth a catchup on iplayer if not seen before. He had such a tough childhood initially

by **navyblueshorts** Sun 07 Jun 2020, 1:08 pm

super_realist wrote:Many musicians annoy me with their insistence they are "artists" or that their product is "art" and serves to be treated as such, doubly annoying when most of those claiming that title are usually on the low end of talent.

Of course it's 'art'. Art, and the liking of given types, is about as subjective as it can be. The fact you don't like something does not mean it's not 'art'.

I've not come across many polymaths, but it's nice to know we have one on here...

by **navyblueshorts** Sun 07 Jun 2020, 1:12 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:Hendrix, while obviously very talented. In general I'm a bit meh.

He's more revered than Prince for instance so surely he must be a genius?

I'm just playing devil's advocate Ben here as genius is so subjective, I mentioned Miles Davis as his use of varying time signatures and all round musical excellence places him at a level above the others mentioned. I'm not big into Jazz but ability wise it's a different level altogether to any rock or pop.

I'm afraid I disagree. If you want odd time signatures, check out Tool, for example. How many 'rock' musicians excel in multiple instruments? Quite a few. I'm not an expert on Davis, but what else did he excel in? Jazz is not some mystically superior musical genre. I like jazz, but the sort of soloing masterbati0n you objected to re. guitarists (Vai, Satriani etc) is exactly what the many of the jazz virtuosos got off on i.e. free-form improvisation etc.

by **navyblueshorts** Sun 07 Jun 2020, 1:14 pm

pedro wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'd suggest that Grunge came about because of a cultural revolution in the late 80's.
Agree, thought about that as well. Did Nirvana make one or two albums? And today they almost have an iconic status. Helped by Cobains suicide of course, but nevertheless pretty mindbaffling. Still, I’m not sure how many would call Cobain a genius?

Groll is pretty talented. Wonder how much of Nirvana were down to his musical input really?

by pedro Sun 07 Jun 2020, 10:26 pm

The great Jimi Hendrix..
https://youtu.be/Wga1nLKVlRs

(As done by the guy from Police Academy...)

by super_realist Mon 08 Jun 2020, 5:23 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:Many musicians annoy me with their insistence they are "artists" or that their product is "art" and serves to be treated as such, doubly annoying when most of those claiming that title are usually on the low end of talent.
Of course it's 'art'. Art, and the liking of given types, is about as subjective as it can be. The fact you don't like something does not mean it's not 'art'.

I've not come across many polymaths, but it's nice to know we have one on here...

I didn't say it wasn't art because I didn't like it. I don't see music in general as art, and I certainly don't see pop acts as artists. I don't think just because you have a voice which is in tune that it makes you an artist, even if you write your own songs, any more than a chef is an artist for making a dish.

by Soul Requiem Mon 08 Jun 2020, 7:07 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
pedro wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'd suggest that Grunge came about because of a cultural revolution in the late 80's.
Agree, thought about that as well. Did Nirvana make one or two albums? And today they almost have an iconic status. Helped by Cobains suicide of course, but nevertheless pretty mindbaffling. Still, I’m not sure how many would call Cobain a genius?
Groll is pretty talented. Wonder how much of Nirvana were down to his musical input really?

I'd wager not a lot considering he hadn't even joined the band by the time Bleach had been released and the bulk of Nevermind had been written.

by Soul Requiem Mon 08 Jun 2020, 7:10 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:Hendrix, while obviously very talented. In general I'm a bit meh.

He's more revered than Prince for instance so surely he must be a genius?

I'm just playing devil's advocate Ben here as genius is so subjective, I mentioned Miles Davis as his use of varying time signatures and all round musical excellence places him at a level above the others mentioned. I'm not big into Jazz but ability wise it's a different level altogether to any rock or pop.
I'm afraid I disagree. If you want odd time signatures, check out Tool, for example. How many 'rock' musicians excel in multiple instruments? Quite a few. I'm not an expert on Davis, but what else did he excel in? Jazz is not some mystically superior musical genre. I like jazz, but the sort of soloing masterbati0n you objected to re. guitarists (Vai, Satriani etc) is exactly what the many of the jazz virtuosos got off on i.e. free-form improvisation etc.

Jack of all trades master of all comes to mind there to an extent. I'd agree to an extent on Tool which is why I regard Danny Carey as most probably the finest modern drummer.

Vai and Satriani is not free form improvisation in the slightest, it's all very choreographed, for improv you want Peter Green or Jerry Garcia.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 08 Jun 2020, 8:31 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
pedro wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'd suggest that Grunge came about because of a cultural revolution in the late 80's.
Agree, thought about that as well. Did Nirvana make one or two albums? And today they almost have an iconic status. Helped by Cobains suicide of course, but nevertheless pretty mindbaffling. Still, I’m not sure how many would call Cobain a genius?
Groll is pretty talented. Wonder how much of Nirvana were down to his musical input really?

I'd wager not a lot considering he hadn't even joined the band by the time Bleach had been released and the bulk of Nevermind had been written.

Fair point. I'm not a Nirvana fan. Except for Smells Like Teen Spirit, I didn't really like anything else I heard.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 08 Jun 2020, 8:33 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:Hendrix, while obviously very talented. In general I'm a bit meh.

He's more revered than Prince for instance so surely he must be a genius?

I'm just playing devil's advocate Ben here as genius is so subjective, I mentioned Miles Davis as his use of varying time signatures and all round musical excellence places him at a level above the others mentioned. I'm not big into Jazz but ability wise it's a different level altogether to any rock or pop.
I'm afraid I disagree. If you want odd time signatures, check out Tool, for example. How many 'rock' musicians excel in multiple instruments? Quite a few. I'm not an expert on Davis, but what else did he excel in? Jazz is not some mystically superior musical genre. I like jazz, but the sort of soloing masterbati0n you objected to re. guitarists (Vai, Satriani etc) is exactly what the many of the jazz virtuosos got off on i.e. free-form improvisation etc.

Jack of all trades master of all comes to mind there to an extent. I'd agree to an extent on Tool which is why I regard Danny Carey as most probably the finest modern drummer.

Vai and Satriani is not free form improvisation in the slightest, it's all very choreographed, for improv you want Peter Green or Jerry Garcia.

Opinion. I've seen Satriani a couple of times and he's plenty impressive. I like Peter Green's playing, but there's another sort of BS mystical reverence for blues, same as jazz. It's not better; just different.

by Soul Requiem Mon 08 Jun 2020, 8:45 am

navyblueshorts wrote:

Vai and Satriani is not free form improvisation in the slightest, it's all very choreographed, for improv you want Peter Green or Jerry Garcia.

Opinion. I've seen Satriani a couple of times and he's plenty impressive. I like Peter Green's playing, but there's another sort of BS mystical reverence for blues, same as jazz. It's not better; just different.[/quote]

I'm not doubting he's not an impressive performer, I saw a G3 show years ago with Vai and I believe Robert Fripp, but I just don't enjoy his playing all that much, I place far more emphasis on the feel that the Blues guys have. Satriani or Vai, there's no real discernible tone to their playing whereas with Green and Garcia there is but you're entitled to your view Navy.

by beninho Mon 08 Jun 2020, 8:57 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
pedro wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'd suggest that Grunge came about because of a cultural revolution in the late 80's.
Agree, thought about that as well. Did Nirvana make one or two albums? And today they almost have an iconic status. Helped by Cobains suicide of course, but nevertheless pretty mindbaffling. Still, I’m not sure how many would call Cobain a genius?
Groll is pretty talented. Wonder how much of Nirvana were down to his musical input really?

I'd wager not a lot considering he hadn't even joined the band by the time Bleach had been released and the bulk of Nevermind had been written.
Fair point. I'm not a Nirvana fan. Except for Smells Like Teen Spirit, I didn't really like anything else I heard.

Wash your mouth out with soap. ( i am not being serious)

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 08 Jun 2020, 1:23 pm

beninho wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
pedro wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'd suggest that Grunge came about because of a cultural revolution in the late 80's.
Agree, thought about that as well. Did Nirvana make one or two albums? And today they almost have an iconic status. Helped by Cobains suicide of course, but nevertheless pretty mindbaffling. Still, I’m not sure how many would call Cobain a genius?
Groll is pretty talented. Wonder how much of Nirvana were down to his musical input really?

I'd wager not a lot considering he hadn't even joined the band by the time Bleach had been released and the bulk of Nevermind had been written.
Fair point. I'm not a Nirvana fan. Except for Smells Like Teen Spirit, I didn't really like anything else I heard.

Wash your mouth out with soap. ( i am not being serious)

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 08 Jun 2020, 1:29 pm

Going back to guitarists/bassists a second, how could I forget Michael Schenker for lead guitar?!? You want some 'tone' Soul, how's about his? Iconic. Forgot about 'Geezer' Butler on bass too.

Also, a nod to John McVie for the iconic bass line leading into Lyndsey Buckingham's solo on 'The Chain'. Talking of Buckingham, quite like the musicality of his playing too.

by Soul Requiem Mon 08 Jun 2020, 1:35 pm

I've not heard a great deal of Michael Schenker's playing, not a big fan of the bands he's been involved with, find them generally a bit meh. Geezer Butler as a heavy metal bassist has no equal, the raw power of his playing alongside Bill Ward is something to be admired, they were even better live, complimented the 'simple' riffing of Tony Iommi perfectly.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 08 Jun 2020, 2:00 pm

Worth checking out 70s UFO featuring Schenker. He went off somewhat (drink), but I love the sound of his guitar. The Schenker-Pattison stuff is good in places, and segues nicely back to the earlier conversation about covers.

Butler, I think, was a lead player prior to hooking up w/ the rest of Sabbath, but Iommi was basically "I'm lead guitar and we need a bassist. Go learn it Bill.". Think his bass playing is interesting because he did a lot of things a lead would do, but on a bass, as well as the basic rhythm stuff.
You're right re. his meshing w/ Ward/Iommi - brilliant. Saw them at Download a couple of times, but unfortunately w/o Ward. That said Tommy Clufetos can't half drum, but not quite the same percussion feel as Ward, who was (obviously) a lot more old school.

by Soul Requiem Mon 08 Jun 2020, 2:08 pm

I'll give them a listen later on today, always on the lookout for new music.

That meshing is something you lose with a rhythm guitarist for me, I think it's Children of the Grave where Butler plays the lead riff and Iommi plays a subtle background riff, Ward hammers away with the precision of a brain surgeon too, they all bounced off each other so well, in their early days they were a very well oiled machine, lost it somewhat as Ozzy succumbed to the lifestyle. Clufetos isn't bad and I don't know why they didn't use him on 13 where Brad Wilk was decidedly average.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 10 Jun 2020, 10:21 am

Having a bit of Staind period just now. Some good anger in there, but they've matured a lot and some cracking songs. Pity they've gone on hiatus...

by Soul Requiem Wed 10 Jun 2020, 10:27 am

navyblueshorts wrote:Having a bit of Staind period just now. Some good anger in there, but they've matured a lot and some cracking songs. Pity they've gone on hiatus...

I only sold my Staind cd's recently, I have terrible collectors OCD so I either have to have all the studio albums of a band or none of them. Break the Cycle was a decent album in fairness with 'It's Been Awhile' becoming a rock classic, 'Open Your Eyes' and 'Outside' were decent too.

by beninho Wed 10 Jun 2020, 10:39 am

Unfinished Symphony by Massive Attack came on radio this morning, i forget who great a dog that is until I hear it again!

Mezzanine is also a great album.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 10 Jun 2020, 1:11 pm

beninho wrote:Unfinished Symphony by Massive Attack came on radio this morning, i forget who great a dog that is until I hear it again!

Mezzanine is also a great album.

Not something I'm familiar with, that. Bizarrely, I was looking them up the other night as I used to go to school w/ someone who I think might have been related to Grant Marshall.

by McLaren Wed 10 Jun 2020, 1:48 pm

beninho wrote:Unfinished Symphony by Massive Attack came on radio this morning, i forget who great a dog that is until I hear it again!

Mezzanine is also a great album.

Mezzanine was the title track for "House" with Hugh Laurie. Great show and an introduction to Massive Attack.

by beninho Wed 10 Jun 2020, 5:59 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:Unfinished Symphony by Massive Attack came on radio this morning, i forget who great a dog that is until I hear it again!

Mezzanine is also a great album.
Not something I'm familiar with, that. Bizarrely, I was looking them up the other night as I used to go to school w/ someone who I think might have been related to Grant Marshall.

You mentioned your Bristol roots in the other thread! Your not Banksy are you?

I would def recommend mezzanine, its pretty dark, but the first track should reel you in. Then teardrop hooks you.

by incontinentia Wed 10 Jun 2020, 6:04 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qPEOX5fAAJA

...further to our earlier chat on bassists. I enjoy this guys youtube channel

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 11 Jun 2020, 11:11 am

beninho wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:Unfinished Symphony by Massive Attack came on radio this morning, i forget who great a dog that is until I hear it again!

Mezzanine is also a great album.
Not something I'm familiar with, that. Bizarrely, I was looking them up the other night as I used to go to school w/ someone who I think might have been related to Grant Marshall.

You mentioned your Bristol roots in the other thread! Your not Banksy are you?

I would def recommend mezzanine, its pretty dark, but the first track should reel you in. Then teardrop hooks you.

I wish - my wife would chuckle at the idea that I can paint/draw. I'll check it out sometime

by pedro Thu 11 Jun 2020, 9:47 pm

There’s never been so much activity on this thread without somebody died..

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 15 Jun 2020, 4:04 pm

beninho wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:Unfinished Symphony by Massive Attack came on radio this morning, i forget who great a dog that is until I hear it again!

Mezzanine is also a great album.
Not something I'm familiar with, that. Bizarrely, I was looking them up the other night as I used to go to school w/ someone who I think might have been related to Grant Marshall.

You mentioned your Bristol roots in the other thread! Your not Banksy are you?

I would def recommend mezzanine, its pretty dark, but the first track should reel you in. Then teardrop hooks you.

Checked this out on YouTube. Not bad overall and one or two really good bits. Not what I would have considered listening to off my own bat, and probably not something I'd have bothered w/ a few years back. Interesting thing as well - after YouTube had finished it, it looped into a load of stuff from Thievery Corporation. Some interesting stuff there and good to just soak up.

by beninho Tue 16 Jun 2020, 5:11 am

The MA album is mood music, probably not something for constant listening to but really fits certain moments. If you didn't hear unfinished symphony, I would also advise a listen to that. Its earlier but also superb. Never heard of Thievery Corporation but will look into them.

Always good to broaden musical horizons!

by incontinentia Wed 17 Jun 2020, 6:00 pm

I ordered an acoustic bass guitar online and will be taking delivery shortly, so excited. Do any of you folks play music? I've played some guitar and ukelele in the past but I really suck. Also played tin whistle in primary school (not sure that counts), and got a harmonica for christmas one year, which was quite intuitive and fun to play.

by beninho Mon 31 Aug 2020, 10:43 am

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/aug/27/the-greatest-hardcore-rave-tracks-ranked?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR01ToWrC4H0QRsqvSz3U3N376UL3h10C5k0Hh5t3kwkPsDD4Vq3CNGAbH8#Echobox=1598538397

Something to dance to on a bh monday

by super_realist Mon 31 Aug 2020, 10:47 am

Sounds like a real contradiction in terms.

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