The summer of cricket 2020

First topic message reminder :

Stokes gone at last...and Roach gets one at last ! Bit fluky , reverse leg side edge but I think Kemar was entitled to dome good fortune...

Hell of an innings from Stokes

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:3 6 9

Damn you fine

Hi Dolph - maybe you could have been a bit more gracious but still decent of you to acknowledge.  I am sure it will be appreciated by our Norfolk correspondent upon his return.*

Importantly, we now get the advantage of playing 5 frontline bowlers having sacrificed a batter for the partially incapacitated Stokes. Aim now should be to dismiss the Windies for under 170 and have the option of enforcing the follow on. I would almost certainly enforce it but I'm getting too ahead of myself!

* Hopefully with a stumping to silence his critics of last week.

Three snaffles behind the stumps today, in a 32 run victory. Ran myself out on 1 when batting though...

But glad to see you backing me right against that Hammers fan. Just watched the highlights, looks like another good day for England, really just the weather that can save the WIndies in this game now.

I know we’re fairly stingy with praise, but bar the first innings in Southampton, England have played pretty well this series, no?

Cheers, Olly. Three catches behind and sacrificing yourself in the quest for quick runs (I'm sure it was that) plus a win for the team - sounds like a good day's work.

With regard to your highlighted question - it sure seems that way but let's get this game done before confirming things. Never good to assume too much. Bringing that Hammers fan back in - as the England players headed home after the '66 World Cup win, hat-trick hero Geoff Hurst said to his manager, ''See you next time, Alf.'' Ramsey replied, ''If selected.''  

Good game for you then , Olly ?  Delighted to see you're getting out on the field and playing again as well. Impressed you are managing to do so given the severe effects of the virus across the UK. I really hope we get our club cricket happening this coming summer : way to go yet , but all the spreading inflections here in Melbourne are a concern.

Watching that Manchester weather as no doubt the players will be . If Monday is indeed The Day of the Deluge there are only 180 or so overs left max...should be enough. But if the follow on is avoided things might get tricky for Root.
Consider : say a lead of 175 after about an hour and a quarter tomorrow. Then how many ahead do England need to get before they are comfortable declaring ? 350 ? Or more - considering Root can't help but remember that match from the last tour ; and if some play was surprisingly available on Monday after all the West Indies would have plenty of time ...
Frankly I think a 300 lead would be ample ; but I'm not going to be barbecued in the press if I present the opposition with a win !
Given England's own wonky batting , adding say 200 might take the rest of the hypothetical day three ; so they would leave themselves only Tuesday to bowl West Indies out ...might be OK ; but light and odd showers ? Hmm. Better to get them back in Sunday night - if they can.

Makes that follow on look quite important , I think ?

alfie wrote:Good game for you then , Olly ?  Delighted to see you're getting out on the field and playing again as well. Impressed you are managing to do so given the severe effects of the virus across the UK. I really hope we get our club cricket happening this coming summer : way to go yet , but all the spreading inflections here in Melbourne are a concern.

Watching that Manchester weather as no doubt the players will be . If Monday is indeed The Day of the Deluge there are only 180 or so overs left max...should be enough. But if the follow on is avoided things might get tricky for Root.
Consider : say a lead of 175 after about an hour and a quarter tomorrow. Then how many ahead do England need to get before they are comfortable declaring ? 350 ? Or more - considering Root can't help but remember that match from the last tour ; and if some play was surprisingly available on Monday after all the West Indies would have plenty of time ...
Frankly I think a 300 lead would be ample ; but I'm not going to be barbecued in the press if I present the opposition with a win !
Given England's own wonky batting , adding say 200 might take the rest of the hypothetical day three ; so they would leave themselves only Tuesday to bowl West Indies out ...might be OK ; but light and odd showers ? Hmm. Better to get them back in Sunday night - if they can.

Makes that follow on look quite important , I think ?

Good to get back out there, albeit we were very wet by the end! (The 1st team on the top pitch had been off for a half hour before we finished...). All a bit weird, but actually not too bad providing you follow the guidelines. And we’re quite lucky that Norfolk has been one of the least hit areas, and certainly now has very small cases (being cut off from most of England finally paid off!), so the risk is certainly reduced here, than say if we were playing in a big city.

On the less important game...the forecast for Monday might allow for 30-45 overs by the looks of it. I think providing they pass the follow on, we bat again to get a lead around 375-400 (obviously as quick as possible Mr Sibley), and then look to bowl them out the final two days.

Forecast is showing a full day today and Tuesday so time realy isn't a big concern for England. Enforcing the follow on might depend on how the ball behaves this morning, if its really moving then it makes sense to keep bowling. If its not then they might not get through the west indies tail in enough runs anyway.
Worth noting that the new ball has been absolutely lethal in the hands of fresh seamers in this game.

If they do bat again I doubt England will push for a lead much above 300. They are absolutely about winning this game rather than avoiding defeat. Again how long they do bat could well depend on overhead conditions and how the balls behaving. Ideally they'd want to get a spell at the west indies tonight in the gloom then another go at them with fresh bowlers and a ball thats only 10 overs old.

Theres still a risk of the weather worsening of course but as it stands england are absolutely in a should win position now and the west indies look broken.

I see yet another failure for Shai Hope yesterday - that Headingley teat match surely one of the most baffling anomalies in a career, of all time?

Outside of 2017 (the england tour and one to Zimbabwe where he did alright) in the five other years he’s played tests he averages 18.26 across 24 matches (44 innings) with only two fifties and a high score of 67!

We can talk rightly about their lack of rotation in the seam department, but it is crazy they have given Hope and Campbell all three games, when the only guy who made runs in the warm up (Josh Da Silva), doesn’t get a sniff

The BBC is going for a dry day, the Met Office is going for heavy showers in the afternoon.

Think the draw is likely, unless England can enforce the follow-on. That will be England's aim this morning, the West Indies will be hoping Holder can get himself back in and that they can bat through the morning session.

Its fair comment Olly, but perhaps says something about the lack of confidence in batting resources that a struggling reserve keeper ends up batting three for an entire series. I'm sure the England selectors will be able to empathise with that dilemma.

Theres something to be said for sticking by a team when theyve played as asked and tbf West Indies werent expected by anyone to make 300 at any time in this series, yesterday was the first time we've seen them get really steam rolled as a unit. This series has been pretty decent for the standard of player they have, theres only really 3 out and out batsmen in the side at all. Braithwaite talked about the standard of batting in their first class game during the previous test in less than glowing terms and mentioned its even having a knock on effect to the bowlers who don't have to develop a full range of skills (like bowling short) because they know if they just aim near the stumps the batsmen will get themselves out without the ball even needing to move. Players are unsurprisingly more concerned with being power hitting all rounders for the CPL.

Perhaps even more concerning for the west indies is that these batsmen arent exactly young, Hopes the only one under 28. I do feel they need to bite the bullet and get some kids in to learn their cricket in tests in the way Crawley is and be exposed to better coaching, competition and a more intense environment.

But they really do have a big problem with their top 6 and need to start unearthing a developing some new batsmen in the same way England have managed to in the past year. 12 months ago Stokes was still finding his feet as a proper bat, Burns was just getting going, Pope had been dropped, Crawley was a kid having an OK domestic season and Sibley was being overlooked. Things changed pretty rapidly for England, partly thanks to the illnesses in SA ...but it still took Stuart Broad to go bonkers for them to get a good score here.

Test cricket through and through really!

Duty281 wrote:The BBC is going for a dry day, the Met Office is going for heavy showers in the afternoon.

Think the draw is likely, unless England can enforce the follow-on. That will be England's aim this morning, the West Indies will be hoping Holder can get himself back in and that they can bat through the morning session.

Even the met office is only showing a 50% chance of rain at the worst. And forecast is dry for day 5. A very pessimistic view is 140 overs of cricket, which makes an England victory the only likely result unless they give an overly sporting declaration or holder gets another double century.

Well I see it is dry for the start... These forecasts seem to change rapidly so I guess we should just wait and see what happens . But I'll be surprised if they don't lose a fair amount of time over the next few days so the first hour this morning might prove pivotal.

Follow on and I reckon England are highly likely to win. Otherwise it's anyone's guess.

Archer in the midst of an over so has to start. Broad the other end ?

Would get Broad and Woakes to start, after Archer completes his over.

If the West Indies do avoid the follow-on, and they should, I wonder how Root will treat today. Will he send his side out to bat as though it's day four - quick runs and aim to declare at least an hour before the end? Or bat as though it's day three and carry right through to stumps?

Holder's looking good. Best I've seen him bat all series (admittedly not a high bar).

Batsmen not looking troubled this morning. Surprised neither Broad nor Anderson have started...with not a lot of runs to spare , I'd have rather at least one "tight" bowler.

Also didn't like that opening field for Archer to Dowritch - no slip ? Too much short stuff...think we can forget the follow on already.

Not a good first twenty minutes from messers Archer and Woakes - might be time for some Anderson and Broad

alfie wrote:Batsmen not looking troubled this morning.  Surprised neither Broad nor Anderson have started...with not a lot of runs to spare , I'd have rather at least one "tight" bowler.

Also didn't like that opening field for Archer to Dowritch - no slip ?  Too much short stuff...think we can forget the follow on already.

Part of my fear without stokes being able to bowl this test was they’d just pigeon hole Archer into the short stuff role...not sure Root captains him greatly in that regard sometimes.

alfie wrote:Batsmen not looking troubled this morning.  Surprised neither Broad nor Anderson have started...with not a lot of runs to spare , I'd have rather at least one "tight" bowler.

Also didn't like that opening field for Archer to Dowritch - no slip ?  Too much short stuff...think we can forget the follow on already.

Yes, they're overdoing the short stuff and trying to be too clever. It's overcast, murky conditions with the floodlights on - get plenty of slips in and pitch the ball up. Sometimes the basics are more than enough.

Fifty partnership up and no alarms this morning. Not like yesterday...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

alfie wrote:Batsmen not looking troubled this morning.  Surprised neither Broad nor Anderson have started...with not a lot of runs to spare , I'd have rather at least one "tight" bowler.

Also didn't like that opening field for Archer to Dowritch - no slip ?  Too much short stuff...think we can forget the follow on already.

Part of my fear without stokes being able to bowl this test was they’d just pigeon hole Archer into the short stuff role...not sure Root captains him greatly in that regard sometimes.

Is it Root ? Or the coaching staff ? As a plan it isn't my favourite...I reckon Archer bowls an awful lot of short balls - has people oohing and aahing over the spectacle - but doesn't actually get a lot of good batsmen out with it. I'd much rather he pitched up and used the short ball as a shock weapon. Stokes probably has better success with the bouncer tactic.

It looks a bit flat this morning so may have made no difference. But I think it's daft not to have one of the two best bowlers on at the start.

Woakes for heavens sake keep your blasted heel behind the line ! What a waste...

And such a fine catch too ! At least it probably saved some runs

Oh dear, that sort of morning. Think it was a no-ball, but thought doubt could reprieve the bowler. Mind you, a West Indian in the first test didn't get any doubt either, so I suppose it's consistent.

i shouldnt have mentioned that holder double century!

Apparently only woakes second no ball (called) in nearly a thousand overs in test cricket

Follow-on avoided. Good luck winning from here, England.

West Indies batting through the session might have seemed quite unlikely at the start; now it looks very probable. Holder now on his highest individual test score since his 202*.

Root not looking happy. He'd be disappointed with this ... But in truth they've not played this well this morning.
Holding suggesting they were planning to keep the two old boys on ice for the second innings - which is plausible ; but indicates overconfidence , perhaps based on the way Dowritch was struggling last night. But that needed a full on assault first up ...and it rather looked as if Archer was less than fired up at the start today.

In fairness the ball is old now , and the pitch is flat. But I can't help thinking they could have been a bit more aggressive from the first ball . Got a feeling they were almost expecting it to just happen...

Now I wonder how close West Indies can get to the England score ?

Didn't take Broad long...

Fifty minutes to get him on. Criminal. And I'm not being wise in hindsight.

England's best bowler makes the breakthrough. Surprise, surprise.

Wonder what Cornwall's like with the bat? West Indies will still be hoping to get to within 150 of England.

alfie wrote:Didn't take Broad long...

Fifty minutes to get him on.  Criminal. And I'm not being wise in hindsight.

Root often does it when England return to the field at the start of a new day. I think he thinks it makes Broad more 'fired-up' than if he got him on at the start. Can't say I agree.

Duty281 wrote:Follow-on avoided. Good luck winning from here, England.

West Indies batting through the session might have seemed quite unlikely at the start; now it looks very probable. Holder now on his highest individual test score since his 202*.

Well that's a nice jinx , Duty Well done .

Indeed winning from here will be tricky. Not impossible , mind. But it needs three things to go right.
1/ Knock over the last three.
2/ Bat with purpose
3/ get enough dry weather.

And of course judging how long to bat...

Excellent hour for West Indies

Nice four to get Cornwall off the mark ! Timing good ...and plenty of weight behind it

Got the feeling he's going to score quite quickly...

Broad on the money again... Cornwall was unlikely to last too long I guess ; but again the merits of pitching the ball up and aiming at the stumps are displayed...

Five for Broad...

Who thought it was a good idea to leave him out at Southhampton ?

Thank the Lord for Stuart Broad. Has a Michelle now.

Replica of yesterday, really. West Indies had the better of the first hour - but Broad leads the telling counter-attack.

Do wonder if staring with woakes and archer was a gamblrnon knocking the windies over quickly then having broad and anderson fresh to take the new ball on after making windies bat again.

As it is we are into plan b territory and whilst the weather gods can still have a say its really still englands game to mess up. The test has shown that batting against the new ball is incredibly difficult so I don't five west indies top order much hope on day 5, then its just a case of methodicly chipping through what little is left.


England showed in the last test they arent likely to be over cautious with the bat second up when in a dominant position as they maybe had been in the past.

Good low catch from Root too.

We cannot know of course ; but you have to wonder if they might not be bowling already in the second innings had they started with the right bowlers ? Of course they were forced to start with Archer as he was in the middle of an over - and he did have Dowritch worried last night. But I did fear too much short stuff might lead to easy runs.

Still if they can get this last one quickly they can embark on stage two. Still 176 ahead and it isn't raining. ..

I think you bat for the rest of today, then use whatever overs you get tomorrow and the full day Tuesday to bowl them out again - looking at 90 overs minimum to get through them that way, plus whatever bonus overs you get on Monday.

Obviously if Stokes or Buttler get going later today, we might be able to have a half hour tonight...but cross that bridge if it happens!

6/31. Outstanding from Broad.

Lead is 172. Think Root will want a 350 lead from here, minimum, unless the weather intervenes before we get there.

And six for Broad

Following on his 62. Might be a while before he gets left out again

The only position Ben Stokes hasn’t batted in a Test match is #2. Time to right that wrong here Joe!

alfie wrote:And six for Broad

Following on his 62.   Might be a while before he gets left out again

Not on here (I think) but elsewhere people were extremely critical of Broad's interview between T1 & T2. Pretty clear he hs backed up his words with actions (notthat he needed to imo).

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I think you bat for the rest of today, then use whatever overs you get tomorrow and the full day Tuesday to bowl them out again - looking at 90 overs minimum to get through them that way, plus whatever bonus overs you get on Monday.

Obviously if Stokes or Buttler get going later today, we might be able to have a half hour tonight...but cross that bridge if it happens!

Ideally want to be bowling tonight. But converting a lead of 172 into a "safe" target in time seems a tall order. Doubt West Indies will be racing through their overs.

Say 4 overs to lunch , 27 next session , so 31x 3+ , maybe a lead of 270 at tea ? Then go wild and add another 80 : would they be game to risk a 350 target ? I doubt it.

More likely they'll seek to bat all day and add a few more tomorrow in the doubtful event they get on the field...

Of course they might get bowled out anyway

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I think you bat for the rest of today, then use whatever overs you get tomorrow and the full day Tuesday to bowl them out again - looking at 90 overs minimum to get through them that way, plus whatever bonus overs you get on Monday.

Obviously if Stokes or Buttler get going later today, we might be able to have a half hour tonight...but cross that bridge if it happens!

Ideally want to be bowling tonight. But converting a lead of 172 into a "safe"  target in time seems a tall order. Doubt West Indies will be racing through their overs.

Say 4 overs to lunch , 27 next session , so 31x 3+ , maybe a lead of 270 at tea ? Then go wild and add another 80 : would they be game to risk a 350 target ? I doubt it.

More likely they'll seek to bat all day and add a few more tomorrow in the doubtful event they get on the field...

Of course they might get bowled out anyway

Whisper it quietly, getting bowled out for 150 fairly quickly might be the best thing for england to win this...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I think you bat for the rest of today, then use whatever overs you get tomorrow and the full day Tuesday to bowl them out again - looking at 90 overs minimum to get through them that way, plus whatever bonus overs you get on Monday.

Obviously if Stokes or Buttler get going later today, we might be able to have a half hour tonight...but cross that bridge if it happens!

Ideally want to be bowling tonight. But converting a lead of 172 into a "safe"  target in time seems a tall order. Doubt West Indies will be racing through their overs.

Say 4 overs to lunch , 27 next session , so 31x 3+ , maybe a lead of 270 at tea ? Then go wild and add another 80 : would they be game to risk a 350 target ? I doubt it.

More likely they'll seek to bat all day and add a few more tomorrow in the doubtful event they get on the field...

Of course they might get bowled out anyway

Whisper it quietly, getting bowled out for 150 fairly quickly might be the best thing for england to win this...

That is perfectly true. Just like the collapse yesterday was an enormous boost for England's prospects, otherwise England might have batted until yesterday evening, and they'd only just be getting started on bowling the West Indies out for the first time.

Think we'll see England bat pretty normally until tea. They'll likely only up the aggression after then.

Nasty injury for Holder on the third ball - might have broken or dislocated his thumb?

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I think you bat for the rest of today, then use whatever overs you get tomorrow and the full day Tuesday to bowl them out again - looking at 90 overs minimum to get through them that way, plus whatever bonus overs you get on Monday.

Obviously if Stokes or Buttler get going later today, we might be able to have a half hour tonight...but cross that bridge if it happens!

Ideally want to be bowling tonight. But converting a lead of 172 into a "safe"  target in time seems a tall order. Doubt West Indies will be racing through their overs.

Say 4 overs to lunch , 27 next session , so 31x 3+ , maybe a lead of 270 at tea ? Then go wild and add another 80 : would they be game to risk a 350 target ? I doubt it.

More likely they'll seek to bat all day and add a few more tomorrow in the doubtful event they get on the field...

Of course they might get bowled out anyway

Whisper it quietly, getting bowled out for 150 fairly quickly might be the best thing for england to win this...

You might think that ; I couldn't possibly comment

People need to stop thinking its r20 all the time. England have most of two sessions today, the ideal time to get the new bsll is with about 10 overs left in the day.
To make the most of that time and allow the power hitters in the middle order to play freely they need to see offthe new ball, both teams have struggled to bat against it and then found scoring against the old one much easier. Pppe and buttler didn't last long agaibst the wrst indies second

Gooseberry wrote:People need to stop thinking its r20 all the time. England have most of two sessions today, the ideal time to get the new bsll is with about 10 overs left in the day.
To make the most of that time and allow the power hitters in the middle order to play freely they need to see offthe new ball, both teams have struggled to bat against it and then found scoring against the old one much easier. Pppe and buttler didn't last long agaibst the wrst indies second

Agreed !

Two weird decisions from Holder to bowl have tipped this series overall. Especially with an undermanned bowling unit.

Rain should be the only barrier to a comfortable win but the WIs have contributed to their own downfall since the first test

Broad's been the difference with the ball since being brought back in. Amazing player.

Always worth giving Broad a chip on his shoulder.

Well that was a satisfying last hour or so after some rather meandering third innings consolidation...
Burns and Sibley played solidly enough and as Root supplied the fireworks later I am not too critical of their slow scoring : would seem churlish to complain after we have all been complaining about dodgy opening pairings for what seems like years.
(Just a little concern that the next tour is - probably - to India : might be a bit of an issue for them if trial by spin becomes the norm ; but we can worry about that later)

Pleased at the sensible decision to accelerate and get the half hour in the field...and obviously delighted to see Broad back it up in such an emphatic manner ! He has had a wonderful couple of days...

I gather The Rain is still set to wipe out Monday : but you'd hope a possible 98 overs on Tuesday is enough to finish the job. Really shouldn't need 58 given the West Indies are looking like they're ready for the plane home.

And on that note should also thank the West Indies for competing in this series in such difficult circumstances , far from home. And congratulate them for making it such an interesting contest. They haven't had much luck with injuries ; and even if they do fall to the defeat I am (with apologies for presumption) predicting , they have done better than a lot of folk would have expected on this trip. We all needed a lift , I think - and these three matches has provided it

Pretty perfect day for england yesterday too - good to see Burns back in the runs this match, seems to have found a little success with the sweep against the spinners...I remember he did it fairly well in Sri Lanka on debut too. Be nice if Sibley can develop that shot too. (Hopefully they do tour India Alfie!)

Met office forecast is pretty much set for rain this morning, but if they get a bit lucky this afternoon we might be able to get some overs in later in the day. Appears to be a few showers about on Tuesday too...we’re very much in the laps of the weather gods...

Hi folks - I was at the Oval yesterday (exclusive report* coming up soon on the Surrey thread) so only followed the Test now and again courtesy of TMS and cricinfo. I'm not sure how much was careful planning and how much was good fortune but it certainly turned out nice again for England.

I'm inclined to say it was good planning ... if only because Root ended up doing what I wanted from early in the last session; i.e. wear 'em down in the field, keep 'em wondering (Olly and Alfie know the script) and then let Anderson and Broad loose for a handful of overs before stumps. So often it seems easier to pick up an opener and the night watchman in those closing overs than in 90 minutes or even a full session. Curran almost did it in the last Test and would have done with a review.

Anyway, we are well on top and, subject to tomorrow's weather, should win the series. I'm regarding any play today as a bonus.

* Tempter - including reference to a recent England Test player not with Surrey.