The summer of cricket 2020

First topic message reminder :

Great ton from Morgan. Came in at 44/3 - now victory looks assured for England after this partnership.

(Spoiler: It wasn't.)

king_carlos wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:
Carlos - a much earlier example but a standout one I recall from radio comms and grainy black & white tv news coverage was John Snow down under in '70/'71. Ask your dad!

I'm sure I've mentioned it many times but I grew up watching VHS recordings my grandfather made of cricket from previous decades. A strange upside of little cricket on terrestrial TV whilst growing up was ending up with a strangely good knowledge of 70/80/90s English cricket courtesy of my granddad. Dead 19 years god rest him but as an Essex CCC member I still reckon he could put forward a passionate argument for Mark Waugh being a better batsman than Steve.

John Snow in Australia was one of the earlier (and jumpier) VHS recordings available but some good footage nonetheless. An excellent bowler and fascinating character/career. He was many things but boring wasn't one of them. Even his action seems menacing watching that old footage. Almost a combination of Bob Willis and Bret Lee.

Not much from those archives can beat recordings of Hampshire games from the 70s and 80s it must be said. Barry Richards and Malcolm Marshall remain two of the most remarkable overseas performers in County Cricket. I'll throw my usual mention for Mike Procter at Gloucestershire into that mix as well of course!

Carlos - no issue at all with telling a good story more than once and especially when it involves a tribute to a wonderful late grandfather.

I had never thought about it before but there was definitely something of Snow in Willis' action. As a fairly young rookie, Willis was called out to Australia as an injury replacement for that '70/'71 series where Snow excelled. Possibly Snow's action and the success he had with it influenced Willis' own action.

Back in the day when overseas stars graced our county game for several years Hants were at the forefront of quality signings. As well as Richards and Marshall, they also had Gordon Greenidge and Andy Roberts for some seasons.

Btw, I would have been disappointed without a reference to Procter.

guildfordbat wrote:

VTR wrote:Ha, it is like the old days. Anyone who did anything of note based solely on looking at County scorecards, ignoring the fact they might be over 40, the performance was a complete aberration in a mediocre career, or in some cases that they aren't even English, get them in the team!

Back in the '70s the last game of the county season was usually the Gillette Cup final, a one day match of 60 overs per side, played at Lord's with the powers that be of English cricket all watching. It was often felt that a good performance in that game could result in a player being called up for England's winter test tour notwithstanding the format being entirely different!

To be fair Robinsons performance last week in the Bob Willis might get him a cap over James Anderson!

On the whole I do think England have moved on a lot from treating the County game with any relevance to England selection beyond getting a chance in the development squads. It does seem to be the potential and coachability they see in those camps that enables people to step up. I suspect that the reluctance to pick Sibley last summer despite him having scored well for the Lions in the previous winter and making a huge number of runs in the CC were the issues with his fitness. When he was given the chance hes quickly made changes to his technique and shed some lard and has referred himself to the gulf in standards and expectations between the county game and the international one. There was also a lot of talk form pundits around the time players spent in the extended training squad at the start of this summer, Cook believed many of the players will have learnt more and developed better there than they would've done playing on the county circuit where theres little time for focused training and even pre season fitness work is a bit of a joke.
Long held view still remains that the County system is long overdue an overhaul and reduction in the number of fully professional sides with more quality and intense competition concentrated in a small number of teams. Less games in all formats and more Lions/under 21s games at home. Drive standards up.

Goose

Some interesting thoughts - it definitely seems that the route to the England side is more through the age group teams and less from the county game than it used to be. The problem with this is that it misses out those who are late developers, although I think sufficient weight of numbers in the CC, especially division 1, will eventually persuade the selectors to give a player a chance.

Definitely agree that the gap between the county game and international cricket is too big at the moment - too many wickets being taken by medium pace with a bit of swing or seam. I do wonder if the structure of the Bob Willis Trophy points to a way forward - the county game playing at a regional level early season, with players then being selected for representative regional sides (maybe 4 regions), who would then play each other in a series of 5 day matches (same setup as Tests)- ideally, the England players could be involved in some of the games.

In other news theres an interview on Cricinfo with James Anderson where hes adamant hes not retiring and sees passing Cooks 161 caps as the last meaningful milestone, which would mean touring this winter. Having a fit Anderson for Asia would be important for England, Broad/Woakes/Curran dont exactly have great records out there.

He is realistic enough to understand though that he could be dropped, and I suspect if he doesnt play in the next two tests or plays badly/struggles for fitness when he does he will call it. It would be sad to see him go out in this way after a year of injuries.

king_carlos wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:
Carlos - a much earlier example but a standout one I recall from radio comms and grainy black & white tv news coverage was John Snow down under in '70/'71. Ask your dad!

I'm sure I've mentioned it many times but I grew up watching VHS recordings my grandfather made of cricket from previous decades. A strange upside of little cricket on terrestrial TV whilst growing up was ending up with a strangely good knowledge of 70/80/90s English cricket courtesy of my granddad. Dead 19 years god rest him but as an Essex CCC member I still reckon he could put forward a passionate argument for Mark Waugh being a better batsman than Steve.

John Snow in Australia was one of the earlier (and jumpier) VHS recordings available but some good footage nonetheless. An excellent bowler and fascinating character/career. He was many things but boring wasn't one of them. Even his action seems menacing watching that old footage. Almost a combination of Bob Willis and Bret Lee.

Not much from those archives can beat recordings of Hampshire games from the 70s and 80s it must be said. Barry Richards and Malcolm Marshall remain two of the most remarkable overseas performers in County Cricket. I'll throw my usual mention for Mike Procter at Gloucestershire into that mix as well of course!

My Grandfather (with my mother's help) was the main driver behind me getting into cricket. As told before, I still remember watching the 76 WI tour through the window of Rumbelows. Our childhood memories drive much of what we become. While I am sad to be unable to remember my toddler visits to New Road and thus Sir Garfield, I do have fond memories of Bradford (again in 76) being my Grandfather's last cricketing summer and watching Chris Old lumbering in. I have had a fond affection for that sort of lumbering trundler ever since.

Strongest memories though are the JPL, and watching Barry Richards with that mane of blond hair and the exquisite commentary from John Artlott. I so wanted to be a flamboyant opening batsman - sadly the Yorkshire genes came through and I was a strokeless limpet with the bat, and a brisk bowler just a little short of a decent pace (though quick enough to make someone who went on to appear over 100 times for England stumble and fall).

Gooseberry wrote:In other news theres an interview on Cricinfo with James Anderson where hes adamant hes not retiring and sees passing Cooks 161 caps as the last meaningful milestone, which would mean touring this winter. Having a fit Anderson for Asia would be important for England, Broad/Woakes/Curran dont exactly have great records out there.

He is realistic enough to understand though that he could be dropped, and I suspect if he doesnt play in the next two tests or plays badly/struggles for fitness when he does he will call it.  It would be sad to see him go out in this way after a year of injuries.

Would be good if he can make it to next summer, and can go out in front of a packed home crowd and be given a Cook-esque send off, one he richly deserves!

Weather looks pretty awful all the way through Thursday-Monday in Southampton.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2637487

Robinson added to the squad for the 2nd test instead of Stokes, Curran and Wood also included. So no real clues as to what the bowling lineup will be in the squad announcement!

Also this is a very interesting read on Archer - following on from the debates on here earlier this week

https://wisden.com/analysis/cricviz-how-should-england-use-jofra-archer/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Also this is a very interesting read on Archer - following on from the debates on here earlier this week

https://wisden.com/analysis/cricviz-how-should-england-use-jofra-archer/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Backs up what I say every single test; he takes wickets bowling line and length not through express pace or bowling short. If I can see that without a breakdown of statistics like in the link how are the England management team not seeing it?

Worth noting that after all his whinging about being dropped Broad is one demrit point away from getting a suspension thanks to swearing when his dad was listening.

A list of bowlers I can remember being given the ‘enforcer’ role for England - Harmison, Plunkett, Broad, Rankin (!), Archer, Wood. This is an idea that has spanned captains and coaches, it’s not just a Root/Silverwood thing which makes it more bizarre.

Neil Wagner is about the only bowler I can think of who bowls that much short and is successful and I still have no idea how he does it. Almost like bowling full and seaming it at 90mph is tough to play...

Root has just confirmed in his press conference that Anderson will play the 2nd test, which I have to admit is a bit of a surprise to me...third straight test, poor performance last week - I'd have given him a week off here and brought him back for the final one personally.

Might be the same XI, bar Crawley for Stokes? Curran for Archer maybe? Doesn't really make much sense why they brought Robinson into the squad/bubble and away from a Sussex game if he isn't going to play...

Hmm!

Maybe they just fancy that Robinson should be involved with the squads and it’s better for him to do that than be part of a Sussex game. Granted that’s a touch selfish.

I'm surprised that Anderson will play. Surely Woakes and Broad won't be rested after recent performances and with a series to win.

Curran for Archer if they want the left arm angle? Wood for Archer if they still want pace whilst rotating Jof?

If Robinson were to come in then nearest like-for-like would be replacing Woakes. It'd be a big call to leave him out after his recent performances but he is a key player for England in all 3 formats now. Perhaps they might rotate him? Of the bowlers across all formats Woakes and Jof are in the bracket of being important to the red ball and white ball sides. I'd argue Woakes is more vital to the Test side than Archer in home series.

I suppose if we go by Anderson having had much less cricket and thus much less rhythm than he’s used to, games and ones in quick succession could be very useful.

He’s had one meh game, the obituaries possibly need to slow down

Pakistan all-rounder Mohammad Hafeez has been placed in isolation following a biosecurity breach where he posed for a photo with a member of the public.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I suppose if we go by Anderson having had much less cricket and thus much less rhythm than he’s used to, games and ones in quick succession could be very useful.

He’s had one meh game, the obituaries possibly need to slow down

Hes had a pretty meh summer all round, and his fitness has been a problem prior to this year. He's struggled in the second innings of the tests he'd played.
I think the real surprise is that it was stated they were going to rotate the bowlers and manage their loads. If Anderson were too knackered after the first test of the summer its a bit of a head scratcher that he's now fit to do two in a row after looking tired in the last one.
But really its looking at the risk they now carry going into the third test. No Stokes and potentially all of their first choice bowlers having played the last three ( and some four) tests and all being in need of a rest. Do they end up with woakes curran robinson for the thrid test? Or is one of Archer Broad Woakes getting rested for this one, which would seem a bit off.
It just feels like they are maybe scared to rest Anderson incase its seen as dropping him, or incase it becomes a de facto dropping and career end.

Obviously the best case scenario ( unless you're a sky exec) is that he comes good in this test and everyone only has to bowl a handful of overs as they run through Pakistan in three days, and he goes to his best for another couple of years.
It just feels a touch optimistic for england to expect that and its hard to see how they are managing their seamers in this series. The west indies made a mess of that themselves. Its also a thing Pakistan really need to think about in regard to their two quicks.

Equally surprised that Anderson is playing, mainly because of his fitness concerns. Hope he doesn't break down again. According to Cricinfo, the only unforced change England are contemplating is Wood in for Archer, although Wood suffered a 'knock' in training. Crawley will of course come in for Stokes.

Pakistan look pretty settled, although specialist bat Fawad Alam might come in for leg-spinning all-rounder Shadab Khan.

I think we can all agree that, with the sweltering heat engulfing the country, tomorrow is very much a bat-first day!

There will be plenty of cloud, just for once Old Trafford actually has a better forecast than most places in Britain just when the tests move away from there. The selection issues might become a bit moot if it does rain a lot, although likely it will be short heavy showers rather than the on off all day drizzles we've had for much of the test season.
Might be a big gamble for Pakistan to leave out Khan who not only was one of the more successful batters but also helps take some load off their seamers. Expecting their two quicks to bowl through 3 back to back tests...hmm.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I suppose if we go by Anderson having had much less cricket and thus much less rhythm than he’s used to, games and ones in quick succession could be very useful.

He’s had one meh game, the obituaries possibly need to slow down

I think you have hit nail on head there , Dolphin...

Have always felt Jimmy , while he may sometimes have tired towards the end of a series , actually bowls better when he has a a few matches under his belt. (I mean warm up games normally , rather than Tests - but obviously this year is different)
If he hasn't taken harm from overuse - and the load in the last game wasn't heavy - it probably makes more sense to keep him running now rather than have him in and out again over the last two matches.

Could be some of the pensioning off comments floating around will also help ginger him up for the game - though I doubt he really needs extra motivation.

Will also help if the slips hang on to the early chances this week ...

Seems like a decision based on partly on Anderson's comments rather than what is best for the team if i'm honest.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Maybe they just fancy that Robinson should be involved with the squads and it’s better for him to do that than be part of a Sussex game. Granted that’s a touch selfish.

Be taking the mick a bit if they do this for me. Can appreciate a "training camp" type thing would be good to get him involved, but for a day or two of bowling in the nets...don't see how that is better than bowling in an actual county game. I hope he does get a go, but not sure who for now...unless they rest Broad.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Maybe they just fancy that Robinson should be involved with the squads and it’s better for him to do that than be part of a Sussex game. Granted that’s a touch selfish.

Be taking the mick a bit if they do this for me. Can appreciate a "training camp" type thing would be good to get him involved, but for a day or two of bowling in the nets...don't see how that is better than bowling in an actual county game. I hope he does get a go, but not sure who for now...unless they rest Broad.

Strikes me its just unfortunate how the fixtures land. Probably wanted him as an option looking at how the first choice bowlers were doing fitness wise, but given the last game only finished yesterday he couldn't reasonably have played in that and then play in a test had someone been a bit tired or whatever. Same goes for the next fixture which starts on the 15th and then ends on the 19th, only two days before the third test. With the first choices having been run pretty hard over four tests the reserves are almost certain to be wanted for that. It wouldnt be such a problem if the Bwilis fixtures were starting on the same days as the tests, but the way they are staggered just isnt leaving a gap for seamers to rest up if they did play in it.

Its worse for those hanging out as concussion subs for both series like Leach and Bracey.

Curran in for Archer, Crawley for Stokes.

Alam in for Shadab for Pakistan, who win the toss and bat.

Crawley and Curran in. Stokes and Archer out.

Fawad in for Shadab too.

All three changes make total sense. Pakistan look more balanced in this game.

So unsurprisingly Crawley back as #3. Slightly bigger surprise that the only change in the bowling is Sam Curran in for Archer - Jimmy looked tired and not in great form last week, so we won based really with just two in form bowlers, one of whom also proving the hero with the bat.

Not unexpected. Both sides wanted more batting.

Pakistan may miss a bowling option but Shadab wasn't particularly effective last week. As for England the only thing they might be missing is someone to bowl a lot of short and nasty stuff if they run out of inspiration. I had actually expected Wood , to be honest...but Sam has a pretty good record of providing occasional magic and playing in winning teams...

Guess Wood didn't recover from his knock then. Good chance for Crawley and Curran to underline their credentials.

Fawad Alam, then. Nearly 35 years old. Played three tests...all of them in 2009. Made his last appearance for Pakistan in 2015 in ODIs. Has scored over 12,000 FC runs at an average of nearly 57 with 34 centuries.

The selectors continue to lack the balls to pick the better keeper, apparently two simple drops and a ballsed up stumping mean nothing if you're in the inner circle.

Warne thinks this will suit spin later on...which makes it a good toss for Pakistan to have won.

Mind you Warne always expects spinners to play a big part

Don't think England will want to concede a big first innings lead again though.

If you think Buttler will score more runs then you pick him over Foakes, certainly in England when the keeper will be back most of the times

JDizzle wrote:If you think Buttler will score more runs then you pick him over Foakes, certainly in England when the keeper will be back most of the times

So we ignore the 100 runs his drops cost and the drops in the Windies series too?

8 balls for Jimmy to get the breakthrough. Past it!

Soul Requiem wrote:

JDizzle wrote:If you think Buttler will score more runs then you pick him over Foakes, certainly in England when the keeper will be back most of the times

So we ignore the 100 runs his drops cost and the drops in the Windies series too?

Depends if you think Foakes catches all those chances 100% of the time and Buttler drops them 100% of the time, both of which seem unlikely.

Speaking of drops - Sibley shells a fairly basic one off Broad. Some are flying through this morning so maybe they could take a step or two back.

JDizzle wrote:Speaking of drops - Sibley shells a fairly basic one off Broad. Some are flying through this morning so maybe they could take a step or two back.

Should've been taken no matter where they are standing that one - bad drop

Yep. Doing plenty this morning too, hope they don’t rue the chance to get Babar in early.

JDizzle wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

JDizzle wrote:If you think Buttler will score more runs then you pick him over Foakes, certainly in England when the keeper will be back most of the times

So we ignore the 100 runs his drops cost and the drops in the Windies series too?

Depends if you think Foakes catches all those chances 100% of the time and Buttler drops them 100% of the time, both of which seem unlikely.

Do I think Foakes is dropping any of those chances? No

First drop was bad, second was utterly criminal. Crucial to take chances on what looks a good batting day.

Soul Requiem wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

JDizzle wrote:If you think Buttler will score more runs then you pick him over Foakes, certainly in England when the keeper will be back most of the times

So we ignore the 100 runs his drops cost and the drops in the Windies series too?

Depends if you think Foakes catches all those chances 100% of the time and Buttler drops them 100% of the time, both of which seem unlikely.

Do I think Foakes is dropping any of those chances? No

I disagree but there we go. I’m sure Foakes will play this winter in India, fingers crossed it goes ahead, in spinning conditions for sure.

Burns drops an absolute dolly. Get Rikki Clarke in as a specialist slip!

JDizzle wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

JDizzle wrote:If you think Buttler will score more runs then you pick him over Foakes, certainly in England when the keeper will be back most of the times

So we ignore the 100 runs his drops cost and the drops in the Windies series too?

Depends if you think Foakes catches all those chances 100% of the time and Buttler drops them 100% of the time, both of which seem unlikely.

Do I think Foakes is dropping any of those chances? No

I disagree but there we go. I’m sure Foakes will play this winter in India, fingers crossed it goes ahead, in spinning conditions for sure.

Burns drops an absolute dolly. Get Rikki Clarke in as a specialist slip!

Hearing reports Ben Foakes would've taken that one as well

England's fielding this summer has looked very rusty. In both the Test and ODIs it's been below their usual standards.

Those misses could be very costly. England have bowled better than being 41-1.

I need to remember not to dare to say anything negative about the mighty Jos Buttler.

I like Jos Buttler's hair. Always wears a cap but never has hat hair when he takes it off. Quite a skill.

Slip fielding hasn't been a strength for England lately. Hasn't helped the cordon keeps changing. Root missed a match , Stokes , Crawley...

Actually surprised Crawley wasn't at third with Sibley second today. He looks the most natural to me. But they've all been missing them.

Might be regretting those errors as Pakistan seem to have weathered the early storm despite that quick strike at the start. If they can get through to lunch it might be hard work for the home team this afternoon.

Apparently England have the second worst slip catching rate since 2018. Pakistan number one

Raining. And lots of rain forecast through the five days. Miserable.

Its sunny in Manchester . Has there been a test summer in recent years with this much disruption? Just as well all the sides involved have been stronger at bowling than betting so we haven't really needed 5 full days of play.

Bowled nicely, couldn't catch a cold...feels like a huge missed opportunity, especially to get Babar in at 7-2 early on against Broad/Anderson, Pakistan would be really teetering.

As it is, need to just chip away this afternoon, in between the inevitable rain breaks...