The summer of cricket 2020

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A very strong position for England with runs on the board and a series lead in hand.

Pakistan going to have to produce something special from here to rescue the series

Anderson moves to 599. Very marginal that one.

Really dark and cloudy out there, so can't imagine much more play. 600 tomorrow?

Sure goose no argument there...worth trying quick young bowlers , one or two might fit the bill.
But we were just discussing Archer , no ? And my question is whether the fact that he took wickets in fairly helpful English conditions against Australia last year is any great indication that he will be able to do the job in Australia...

Not saying he won't . Just that the signs since that debut series are a little bit concerning. We shall wait and see.

Back in the present , Jimmy has 599 and England have two ! Need a few more but at least they've got a shot at a new batsman...

That's a very generous decision from Gough there, looked to be sliding down to me.

Bringing Jofra on is probably going to make the umpire extra twitchy for his light meter.

Marginal yes , but hardly unreasonable. The good thing is in such cases the batting side don't lose their review , which is fair enough.

Bit of reverse happening now ; and Archer recalled to see if he can do something with it to the new batsman. Unfortunately he's going to the short stuff immediately and I can't see the point - unless he's setting him up for the Yorker.

That wretched light meter is on the field so I'm keeping fingers crossed...

Generous but shown to be correct. Couldnt ahve said it was a bad decision if it wasnt given and England had lost the review but Anderson would have had more right to feel aggrieved than the batsman who he beat did.

Light meter keeps coming out. Sigh

Short spell for Archer

But given the light situation rather obvious choice. England would love one more tonight before they're forced off.

Hard to see them getting enough time tomorrow to get a win ; but if they could shift one of these two they'd at least feel they've got one end sort of open...

Oh god Root and Bess bowling to stay on. Bit ridiculous that Anderson gets classed as as dangerous as Archer!

Might as well just go off if it's Root/Bess bowling.

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Archer's pace going up, but he's been incredibly ineffectual so far so it makes no odds.

Almost like he's more effective not being asked to bang it in short at 90mph in England, where bowling short isn't remotely as good as pitching it up despite the media (and seemingly England's) continued obsession with it. As we were discussing a few weeks back, as soon as England see someone with a modicum of pace, they seemingly have to become "the enforcer". Does my head in

Edit: While I do rag on his record a bit in England, this is probably also why Mark Wood struggles here. Certainly when he first came into the side here this was his "role"

But it isn't just the short stuff really , Olly. A lot of his quite rapid deliveries weren't particularly short but they were wide of the stumps and presented no threat. In truth in all the matches this season he's really only looked dangerous in a couple of brief spells and hasn't taken many wickets in any case.

The concern I have is that since his excellent first four games against Australia , Archer just hasn't produced. (He got a five in SA ; but they were mostly junk time wickets at huge cost ) and for all the talk about him providing an X factor we are yet to see it in practice.

This is not unreasonable as he's a young man still learning his trade at the top level and can't be expected to turn it on every time. But one of the big selling points that greeted his arrival was the thought that he would be able to make a huge difference in Australia because of his pace. Now the truth is most Australian pitches are pretty flat these days : so if he can't influence games on flat pitches in NZ or England - why should it be assumed he will magically do so in the next Ashes tour ?

It's still early for him , to be fair. Not going to dismiss his chances yet. But I think there is some cause for concern. The main limitation I see with his bowling is that he really doesn't have a delivery which moves away from the right hander ; and unless he develops one , that will tend to force him to look to the short ball more than we might want. Mind you bowling short at the Aussies worked quite well for Wagner so...

Do not get me started on the obsession with everything must be geared towards winning a series in Australia, Alfie! and for me, our issues with winning down under are just as much about how we go to pot batting down there, as much as the bowling...but that doesn't get raised half as much!

Don't disagree he's having some teething problems (it should be noted he didn't come in with a wealth of first class games under his belt too), but I'm not sure the current management have exactly managed him great since last summer, as the article posted a week or two ago about his workload showed. Do also wonder if he is fully over that elbow injury, or, if that has had a longer term effect on him (hopefully not)

I, personally, think he'd be far more suited to working on getting that movement you mention, a bit of seam movement away (he has the inducker)...but it seems we're more interested in getting him bowling at people's heads, in short sharp bursts (of which Wagner seems to be the only bowler in the world that works for consistently). Right here, ball is beginning to reverse a bit, and we've got him round the wicket bowling into the shoulders...surely better for him to be learning to bowl with a slightly reversing ball, pitched up, no?

Either way, I'm not paid to make those decisions, so we'll see how it plays out in the coming years! Doubt he'll get a huge workload this winter if those tours to India/Sri Lanka do go ahead anyways.

Duty281 wrote:Might as well just go off if it's Root/Bess bowling.

Plenty of runs to spare ; any overs they bowl brings a second new ball closer ; they might fluke a wicket. Worth trying on this occasion.

Off anyway now. Rats.

Have to hope the rain goes elsewhere tomorrow or it might be a dull damp end to the series...

And that's it for the day. 56 overs bowled which is a little more than I was expecting at the start, but the new ball was wasted and the pitch has no life whatsover.

Can't see any more than 50 overs being played tomorrow and, although the new ball is 24 overs away, England probably need another 70-80 or so to take the final 8 wickets.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Archer's pace going up, but he's been incredibly ineffectual so far so it makes no odds.

Almost like he's more effective not being asked to bang it in short at 90mph in England, where bowling short isn't remotely as good as pitching it up despite the media (and seemingly England's) continued obsession with it. As we were discussing a few weeks back, as soon as England see someone with a modicum of pace, they seemingly have to become "the enforcer". Does my head in

Edit: While I do rag on his record a bit in England, this is probably also why Mark Wood struggles here. Certainly when he first came into the side here this was his "role"

But it isn't just the short stuff really , Olly. A lot of his quite rapid deliveries weren't particularly short but they were wide of the stumps and presented no threat. In truth in all the matches this season he's really only looked dangerous in a couple of brief spells and hasn't taken many wickets in any case.

The concern I have is that since his excellent first four games against Australia , Archer just hasn't produced. (He got a five in SA ; but they were mostly junk time wickets at huge cost ) and for all the talk about him providing an X factor we are yet to see it in practice.

This is not unreasonable as he's a young man still learning his trade at the top level and can't be expected to turn it on every time. But one of the big selling points that greeted his arrival was the thought that he would be able to make a huge difference in Australia because of his pace. Now the truth is most Australian pitches are pretty flat these days : so if he can't influence games on flat pitches in NZ or England - why should it be assumed he will magically do so in the next Ashes tour ?

It's still early for him , to be fair. Not going to dismiss his chances yet. But I think there is some cause for concern. The main limitation I see with his bowling is that he really doesn't have a delivery which moves away from the right hander ; and unless he develops one , that will tend to force him to look to the short ball more than we might want. Mind you bowling short at the Aussies worked quite well for Wagner so...

Do not get me started on the obsession with everything must be geared towards winning a series in Australia, Alfie! and for me, our issues with winning down under are just as much about how we go to pot batting down there, as much as the bowling...but that doesn't get raised half as much!

Don't disagree he's having some teething problems (it should be noted he didn't come in with a wealth of first class games under his belt too), but I'm not sure the current management have exactly managed him great since last summer, as the article posted a week or two ago about his workload showed. Do also wonder if he is fully over that elbow injury, or, if that has had a longer term effect on him (hopefully not)

I, personally, think he'd be far more suited to working on getting that movement you mention, a bit of seam movement away (he has the inducker)...but it seems we're more interested in getting him bowling at people's heads, in short sharp bursts (of which Wagner seems to be the only bowler in the world that works for consistently). Right here, ball is beginning to reverse a bit, and we've got him round the wicket bowling into the shoulders...surely better for him to be learning to bowl with a slightly reversing ball, pitched up, no?

Either way, I'm not paid to make those decisions, so we'll see how it plays out in the coming years! Doubt he'll get a huge workload this winter if those tours to India/Sri Lanka do go ahead anyways.

I think we are agreement there , Olly !

And I'm also with you re the problems in Australia. The real key there is making Really Big Scores : get 583 and you can probably bowl them out in reply with a variety of bowlers...and you probably won't lose two days to the weather.

Wonder who will do the bowling in India and Sri Lanka ? Plenty of options and I'm not at all sure which are the best...  If they go ahead indeed.

Aggers on TMS cheerfully talking up the prospects of zero play tomorrow because of Storm Francis. Could well be.

Anderson to get his 600th in front of an actual crowd?

Could well do, but I doubt he'd appreciate the extra wait!

I assume the India series will be played behind closed doors. No guarantee it will happen of course but it looks good as things stand if done on a similar basis to this summer. If he doesn't retire its hard to see Anderson not getting used, hes the only bowler England still have who's ever had success there. 600 will happen.

In terms of the quicks and Aus the obsessions is there because time and again England have come up short with length bowlers. Anderson did play a huge part in the 2011 win, but it really is pushing it to think he might be targeting 700 wickets and still be capable of bowling a 5 match series at 40. Most of the wickets they did take in that series came from quick and/or tall bowlers.

Lots of talk from the bowling pundits that England have been looking for reverse here but not been able to get it because of the humidity making the ball damp, its also why its softened up so much. That isn't likely to be such a problem in Aus and India so we might well see Archer being more effective with length bowling. The reason why they resorted to the leg theory here was the lack of reverse, and Pakistan simply not being comfortable with that. Aus apparently did a lot of short pitched stuff ( even Hazelwood) when they rolled them over. The likes of Abbas really struggled, the few wickets they Pakistan take mostly came from quicks or Shah.

The obsession with finding bowlers who can do something outside England isn't just for the Ashes either. You'll get pitches not dissimilar in India, and they've came unstuck on some pretty flat wickets in New Zealand and the West Indies. Then theres the UAE, although theres some talk of playing in Pakistan I cant see that happening any time soon. We've even seen England getting caught out at home, notably Lords which has a reputation for being a road these days. Guys like Woakes, Curran and even Broad who have great records in England have consistently been useless with the kookabura.

Also wicket taking spinner. The notion of just plugging away with honest toilers and hoping to match India and Australias 600/1 dec (being generous and hoping someone catches something) just doesn't wash.

As noted the batting on dead pitches is also a thing thats been as much of an issue as the bowling, and was a huge part of that 2011 Ashes win. Theres absolutely been an improvement there which seems to stem form a more patient measured approach. Crawleys innings was an absolute masterclass, and Vaughn was pointing to some specific things he reckoned Crawley picked up from his time in Aus.

Gonna take a bit of a miracle to get a result here now. Its due to stop raining early afternoon, but could take an age to get things dry after an absolute deluge and then likely light will stop it before the 7:30 cut off. Damp outfield isnt going to help that sponge they are bowling with either. If we do get play someone needs to slip one of the Pakistanis a few quid to chuck their wicket for Anderson, probably out of Burns or Buttlers match fee.

Is indeed looking like a minor miracle needed to force a win now. Like the weather being better than expected for once . Not holding my breath.

Even if they do get serious overs in , it might be hard work for the bowlers. Still 24 to the new ball so they'd need what , two at least in that period from somewhere and then hope to roll the rest quickly ...hard to see the whole job done under fifty overs and that looks unlikely.

I do go back to my original complaint that England batted too long on day two. More urgency , settling for something like 520 - 540 all out , might have given another fifteen or more overs that night ; and the way Jimmy was going in the evening who knows what would have been left of Pakistan by the close ? But that's done now. Just have to do an anti-rain dance and hope Bess can take an early hat trick

I agree Alfie, I commented on Saturday that they should have been looking to declare much sooner considering the forecast was so poor for the final two days, there was little to lose from going on the attack and hoping to have an extra hour bowling. It would likely not have resulted in a positive result but would have maximised that chance.

Think we had enough time to at least force Pakistan into a collapse. As it is, they've batted well and the pitch is more than a bit flat to go with some less than ideal fielding efforts

GSC wrote:Think we had enough time to at least force Pakistan into a collapse. As it is, they've batted well and the pitch is more than a bit flat to go with some less than ideal fielding efforts

We've had some big surprises in recent times so I haven't totally given up on this game yet but victory chances don't look good.

I was out most of yesterday and saw next to none of the play so can't comment on the pitch but generally agree with GSC. Although I would have declared a few overs earlier on Sunday, I was very content to have Pakistan 3 down for 20 odd at the close that evening. More overs may have meant more wickets or may have meant a different approach from the Pakistan batsmen and less. We'll never know.

One thing we can state with confidence is that Azhar Ali has batted magnificently in this Test. Until Atherton mentioned it on Sunday, I had forgotten that he played parts of the last two county seasons for Somerset; I don't think I saw him play for them but, fair to say, he never set things alight there. Anyway, despite all the merited applause and sympathy respectively so far for Crawley and Anderson, the Pakistan skipper probably deserves to get a draw for his side. Still hoping he doesn't, mind.

Rain, rain, lots of rain. Plenty of rain overnight. Still raining now. According to Aggers on TMS, it will take 4 or 5 hours to clear up the field after it's stopped raining. If that's right, there won't be a restart until at least 16:00. To be honest, I'm only hanging around because I want to see Anderson's 600th.

A year ago today since Headingley 2019 and the greatest of escapes from Ben Stokes (and Jack Leach!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wamtTEVFDiA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sEEDZr03xA

Be shaking hands at some point today before we get any play I think

Rain's stopped, inspection at 13:40.

Not gonna be remotely close to play for a while yet given how wet the outfield is though

True, true, but all we want is a few overs so Jimmy can have a chance to get 600.

Duty281 wrote:Rain's stopped, inspection at 13:40.

Suppose if it doesn't rain again they might get on at some point.

Be a tall order to bowl them out anyway but you never know. Was a match against Sri Lanka a few years back where the last few hours produced a shock result...

But England will at least be thankful they are the team 1-0 up.

It is purely about giving Jimmy as much time as possible to get that 600th wicket, no chance of victory.

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Rain's stopped, inspection at 13:40.

Suppose if it doesn't rain again they might get on at some point.

Be a tall order to bowl them out anyway but you never know.  Was a match against Sri Lanka a few years back where the last few hours produced a shock result...

But England will at least be thankful they are the team 1-0 up.

Yes, I was thinking of that Sri Lanka game, actually nine years ago already! Tremlett and Swann doing the damage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/13593906

Apparently raining again.

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Rain's stopped, inspection at 13:40.

Suppose if it doesn't rain again they might get on at some point.

Be a tall order to bowl them out anyway but you never know.  Was a match against Sri Lanka a few years back where the last few hours produced a shock result...

But England will at least be thankful they are the team 1-0 up.

Yes, I was thinking of that Sri Lanka game, actually nine years ago already! Tremlett and Swann doing the damage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/13593906

And for older members of the forum , a famous Ashes Test in 1968 in which Colin Cowdrey inspired members of the crowd to assist in mopping up the ground so Derek Underwood could bowl England to victory...

Further inspection at 3.

No further rain forecast, so we can remain hopeful of Anderson bowling a few overs today to get his 600th.

If play starts at 3.30 or 4 without tea then there is theoretically enough time to bowl them out however unlikely it is.

There wont be any play today. More rain is forecast for around 4pm. I expect a hand shake at 4:30pm.

eirebilly wrote:There wont be any play today. More rain is forecast for around 4pm. I expect a hand shake at 4:30pm.

All forecasts i've seen suggest that there's little possibility of more rain today.

Not that it matters much other than getting over the whole Anderson 600 thing. 8 wickets in 4 hours isnt totally impossible, just implausible?

Be nice if they could at least make it a tense finish, the summer deserves it after a great start. Weather has robbed us of a lot of time this summer so getting 4 results isn't too bad but still a disappointment if it just fizzles out to a torrid blockathon.

On that lifeless wicket with tired bowlers and a decent batting line-up, 8 wickets is 99% not going to happen. If England had took 3/4 more yesterday, it might have been an interesting conclusion to the test 'summer'.

Sun shining in Southampton now. I think they're hoping for a restart between 4-5, then we can have Anderson get his 600 and shake hands on the draw.

I'd like to see them get back on ; but I'm not sure having Jimmy get number 600 in these circumstances is really great theatre...

Imagine he will go on until next year in any case so might he not prefer to get it in a meaningful situation ? Different if there is enough time for some sort of push for victory ; but could be a bit flat if they're just out there for half an hour and shaking hands.

And I see it looks clear enough now. Worried about damp patches on the outfield I guess but I'm sure the fielders would accept whatever risk they might incur as long as conditions aren't ridiculous.
Plenty of cricket is played on less than ideal outfields all over the world. Presume they have a plentiful supply of sawdust...

alfie wrote:I'd like to see them get back on ; but I'm not sure having Jimmy get number 600 in these circumstances is really great theatre...

Imagine he will go on until next year in any case so might he not prefer to get it in a meaningful situation ?  Different if there is enough time for some sort of push for victory ; but could be a bit flat if they're just out there for half an hour and shaking hands.

Ordinarily perhaps true but the combination of age and not knowing when they're playing next makes it imperative he gets there sooner rather than later; for arguments sake if he ruptures his Achilles tendon in the coming months he won't be playing for a fair old time.

Further inspection at 15:35. Might be getting closer, or the umpires might abandon on safety concerns.

Would agree with Soul on the above. There's no guarantee Anderson will play another test for England. He's had injury problems before and he could break down without getting another game for his country. I'd hate for him to be stuck on 599, especially after four drops off his bowling in this test.

Suspect they might just call it.

Not sure England are particularly keen on running into a gale off a wet outfield either

Yeah I'd not like Jimmy to be stuck on 599 either. But the thing I really didn't like was Ramps saying it would be good for the selectors if he got the 600 now : only his opinion of course but the implication that it would be a "good thing" to have the selectors feel free to discard him sooner rather than later annoys me .
The man has just taken five (despite drops) and frankly looked as good as he has been for the last few seasons. And surely still , along with Brioad , England's top pace man - certainly at home.
Time will get us all in the end but I do expect Anderson to be playing next season whatever Ramps might prefer...

Popes having his shoulder scanned. Not great news.

Marking the pitch now ; sort of suggests they are leaning towards a start if things look OK in ten minutes.

It's the hope that kills you

Gooseberry wrote:Popes having his shoulder scanned. Not great news.

Didn't like the look of that injury right from the start . At least he will have time for whatever damage he has incurred to heal before he would be due to play again.

Hopefully scan will reveal better results than it might be ...

alfie wrote:Yeah I'd not like Jimmy to be stuck on 599 either.  But the thing I really didn't like was Ramps saying it would be good for the selectors if he got the 600 now : only his opinion of course but the implication that it would be a "good thing" to have the selectors feel free to discard him sooner rather than later annoys me .
The man has just taken five (despite drops) and frankly looked as good as he has been for the last few seasons. And surely still , along with Brioad , England's top pace man - certainly at home.
Time will get us all in the end but I do expect Anderson to be playing next season whatever Ramps might prefer...

I took a slightly different take on the ramps opinion. His concern was mostly around the prospect of Jimmy playing beyond his years and implying that the selectors wouldnt feel able to overlook him if he kept going. We saw an element of that last summer when he was picked half fit for the ashes and then again in the winter both with disastrous results.

the ideal for everyone is that Anderson is selected for games because hes the best option, when fit, and that he goes out on a high. The last thing he, the team or the selectors want is even the perception that hes being selected because they dont dare not.

I would absolutely see him as part of a touring party in the winter as the only bowler England currently have who's delivered on the sub continent. But Ramps was basing his opinion on a thought that those tests might not happen, and being realistic about how fit Jimmy really will be with another year in him.

Regardless it really would be nice if he could just get that wicket today. Theres a few England catchers who will owe him a drink or two if not.

Restart at 4 apparently, 40-50 overs to be bowled

Inspection at 4, hope to resume at 4:15. Another inspection suggests there's areas of the ground the umpires are unhappy with, so could still go either way.

Would mean about 40 overs.

GSC wrote:Restart at 4.apparently, 40-50 overs to be bowled

Hope the 4 .15 pm start happens ! After all this waiting calling it off then would be the last straw.

I doubt they could take 8 wickets in thirty-forty overs (surely won't get more ?) ; but if a couple went down it might at least finish the series with a bit of suspense...