The summer of cricket 2020

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A very strong position for England with runs on the board and a series lead in hand.

Pakistan going to have to produce something special from here to rescue the series

Feels like a missed opportunity to have given the likes of Livingstone and Sam Curran a game, to me. Especially Livingstone, Denly isn’t going to the World Cup, there’s a chance Livingstone could

alfie wrote:Just not England's night. How on earth Bairstow managed to lose that high catch after he got his gloves under it is beyond me ...

In fact the fielding has been full of errors all round so far.

Stoinis fell to Curran (who has looked the best of the bowlers ) but they really don't have to hurry after getting away to this fast start.  They messed up a chase last Friday but I can't see them making those mistakes again.

Unable to watch tonight's game but that explains a comment I heard - ''Bairstow's keeping makes Buttler look like Alan Knott.''

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:Just not England's night. How on earth Bairstow managed to lose that high catch after he got his gloves under it is beyond me ...

In fact the fielding has been full of errors all round so far.

Stoinis fell to Curran (who has looked the best of the bowlers ) but they really don't have to hurry after getting away to this fast start.  They messed up a chase last Friday but I can't see them making those mistakes again.

Unable to watch tonight's game but that explains a comment I heard - ''Bairstow's keeping makes Buttler look like Alan Knott.''

Ha ! Probably an irresistible line for a Buttler fan last night... though somehow doubt Dom Bess would agree

I am sure England were trying their best all night. But for some reason almost everything was "off" . Normally safe fielders either failing to gather the ball at all or throwing poorly...bowlers , apart from Rashid and Curran , just unable to maintain discipline ... The batting was underwhelming too ; but on a pitch that wasn't easy for playing strokes even 145 would probably have been defended if they had been as switched on as the first two games.

Hard to escape the feeling that something often just goes missing from this England team (yes , even in white ball) when they think they are right on top and just expect to win : look back at the World Cup where it was only the imminent threat of dropping out of the tournament that seemed to spark them into finding top gear - and even then they nearly blew the final against the underdog Kiwis after seeing off the supposed real dangers. Work for the team psychologists I think.

On the plus side , it gives Morgan something to use to rev 'em up for the ODIs

I actually think that Bairstow is the better keeper, he definitely is standing up to the spinners.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Great to see Moeen play an innings like that - he did play a superb hand in one of the games in South Africa too (seems to have gone unremembered amongst media)

Particularly against spin, he’s a great six hitter. You’d think in India that’ll be handy, so hopefully he can continue to keep up some form in the coming year or so.

At the moment you’re probably looking at this as our strongest XI?

Roy
Buttler
Bairstow
Stokes
Morgan
Ali
????
Jordan
Rashid
Archer/Curran
Wood

???? Is the one we need to find! Personally. I would like them to give Livingstone a run at 6/7 with a view to him taking a role there. Banton/Malan waiting in the wings in the batting too, but not sure either suit that later hitter role, and think they’re behind the top order guys at the moment.

Ridiculous options in the batting really. Play them all and chase 250 every innings I say

Don't think much has changed after the Australia series on this, bar probably the man in possession of the ??? role at the moment is Malan, who when everyone is fit would be at 4, and then Morgan/Stokes/Moeen a combination of 5/6/7.
Bit of a disappointing series for Banton. Probably has firmly put himself in the role as top order backup, rather than potentially making the side in the middle order for the moment.
Root is going nicely in the t20 blast, so him and Malan competing over the next 12/18 months will be good to watch.
Seen some suggestions in the media Roy should be dropped...not for me. Since 2018 he's averaging 47 across the 8 innings he's played in t20i at a strike rate of 175. Three fifties in those innings too. His injury record is a bit of a concern mind, does seem to pickup niggles easier than the other bats

I'd be picking Malan over Bairstow at three myself but one the selectors will predictably get wrong.

Malan- 48.71 with one century and seven 50's at 146
Bairstow- 26.34 with five 50's at 137

Not quite sure where the debate is there.

For me Roy has to earn a spot back in the first choice side. Hes only played 3 T20is in the past two years, by the time he gets a chance that'll nearer 2 and half years. His overall record isn't anything to shout about, although he did do well in SA last winter its nothing like the consistency Buttler has shown there. Talking up his performances in a sample of 8 games vs denigrating Malans figures from 14 (now 16) as non representative is exactly the kind of double standards of judgement I was bristling about the other day!

His form this summer prior to getting injured was rank too.

England have invested a lot in Banton over the past 6 months, but one innings aside hes really not delivered that much on promise and talent. Flashes of brilliance but hes just not there yet. How many more chances will he get? I think Roy will be straight back in starting XI this winter, but that doesnt make him a first choice, just given the opportunity to demonstrate if he should be. Thats going to make it very difficult to find a spot for Banton, especially with Stokes needing to get some games in as well.

Banton will probably make the T20 world cup squad, but hes going to struggle to force his way into a starting XI now. As it is hes probably had more games than he might otherwise have done, but the concentration will now be on the first XI and those players who for one reason or another havent had the chance to play many T20is over the past year or so.

As for Livingstone, hes fast becoming one of those players who gets better and better the more he doesn't play. His exclusion though does show the massive amount of faith England have in Moeen, in spite of him now being only a part time bowling option and occasionally having a good game with the bat. In this particular the case the use of Denly seems inexplicable to me, but its pretty clear people in the England leadership rate him in all formats. Maybe an element of wanting more experience in the side with Morgan rested?

God to see Curran having an effective game again. I'd been a bit disapointed by him this summer but is developing a specialist role for England as a death bowler. Again fancy he wont get into a first XI with Stokes back but remains a good option for England. I was surprised Sam didnt get a go though, seems odd to bother to include him at all and surprisingly that England seem to have given up on the idea that they need a left arm option with Willey rather harshly ditched altogether.

The top of the order is a fascinating conundrum for the selectors.

1.Buttler 2.Bairstow/Roy 3.Malan 4.Morgan 5.Stokes 6.Root

My opinion is moving towards that with the tough call being made between Bairstow and Roy opening. I think Root in that 'finisher' role at 6 with the potential to come in earlier if there are early wickets could be a good balance.

1.Bairstow 2.Roy 3.Malan 4.Morgan 5.Stokes 6.Buttler

That would arguably be the easiest route for the selectors to take given how good Buttler is as a finisher, whilst Roy and Bairstow are still excellent openers. I'm increasingly liking Buttler opening though.

1.Buttler 2.Roy 3.Bairstow 4.Malan 5.Morgan 6.Stokes

That is then the more rogue option with the ODI opening pair still in the top 3 alongside Buttler. A top 3 to really attack the powerplay up front then flexibility in when Stokes comes in depending on the situation. If that top 3 are given license to attack everything to get a flying start then Malan could still be very effective in the same role but batting at 4.

Lots of options. Moeen batting so well against the spinners has been a welcome boost given the next T20 World Cup will now be India as well.

Gooseberry wrote:For me Roy has to earn a spot back in the first choice side. Hes only played 3 T20is in the past two years, by the time he gets a chance that'll nearer 2 and half years. His overall record isn't anything to shout about, although he did do well in SA last winter its nothing like the consistency Buttler has shown there. Talking up his performances in a sample of 8 games vs denigrating Malans figures from 14 (now 16) as non representative is exactly the kind of double standards of judgement I was bristling about the other day!

His form this summer prior to getting injured was rank too.

England have invested a lot in Banton over the past 6 months, but one innings aside hes really not delivered that much on promise and talent. Flashes of brilliance but hes just not there yet. How many more chances will he get? I think Roy will be straight back in starting XI this winter, but that doesnt make him a first choice, just given the opportunity to demonstrate if he should be. Thats going to make it very difficult to find a spot for Banton, especially with Stokes needing to get some games in as well.

Banton will probably make the T20 world cup squad, but hes going to struggle to force his way into a starting XI now. As it is hes probably had more games than he might otherwise have done, but the concentration will now be on the first XI and those players who for one reason or another havent had the chance to play many T20is over the past year or so.

As for Livingstone, hes fast becoming one of those players who gets better and better the more he doesn't play. His exclusion though does show the massive amount of faith England have in Moeen, in spite of him now being only a part time bowling option and occasionally having a good game with the bat. In this particular the case the use of Denly seems inexplicable to me, but its pretty clear people in the England leadership rate him in all formats. Maybe an element of wanting more experience in the side with Morgan rested?

God to see Curran having an effective game again. I'd been a bit disapointed by him this summer but is developing a specialist role for England as a death bowler. Again fancy he wont get into a first XI with Stokes back but remains a good option for England. I was surprised Sam didnt get a go though, seems odd to bother to include him at all and surprisingly that England seem to have given up on the idea that they need a left arm option with Willey rather harshly ditched altogether.

Where has anybody "denigrated" Malan's figures? You seem to have constructed this narrative out of thin air. I have him in my current best XI!

Do agree on Willey, he is a good option for powerplay wickets and some lower order biffing. But as you say, they seem to have moved on from him when the bowling attack is at full strength

Soul Requiem wrote:I'd be picking Malan over Bairstow at three myself but one the selectors will predictably get wrong.

Malan- 48.71 with one century and seven 50's at 146
Bairstow- 26.34 with five 50's at 137

Not quite sure where the debate is there.

I'd only go Bairstow at 3, and Malan at 4, because I think Bairstow takes advantage of the powerplay fields better. Ultimately after the openers, England if they wanted, could be flexible with the whole middle order from 3 down to 7!

Apparently Silverwood is in talks with Rashid to get him back for the winter test games. The issues with spinners we have discussed at length, Bess being a bit tepid at home and others not having played first class for an extended period and/or being Moeen.

Englands success in Asia has come with a strong core of wicket taking spinners. Swann and Pannesar in India and Leach, Rashid Moeen in Sri Lanka more recently.

Its far from ideal but you can see why they are looking that way. Also must be a sign that Rashids shoulder issues are fully sorted.

So after the t20 stuff is over and wondering who are the first choice bats going forward I thought I'd take a look at the stats...How much notice should we take of stats in t20 ?

Does Buttler have the outstanding figures (as one might think) ? Not even close...

Averages : Malan 48 Root 36 Morgan 30 Buttler 28 Bairstow 26 Roy 24 Banton 23 (Stokes and Moeen both under twenty , in case you're wondering. ) But of course they bowl - at least Moeen used to

Strike Rates : Roy 147 Malan 146 Banton (!) 143 Buttler 140 Morgan 139 Bairstow 137 Root only 126 (Stokes and Moeen 134)

Not sure if it proves much except that it's hard to overlook Malan ! Not a huge sample size ; but in truth that applies to most of them.

Does suggest that - overall - England have a fair few largely interchangeable bats who might be expected to do a job at the next cup . Also suggests they have injury cover at least across the top six.

Just need to get the bowling set up right , I think. And the main concern I have there is that unless Moeen is going to bowl a bit more than the token one over he's not really adding anything to the attack so is he actually a better bet than Root ? (I'd certainly rate him a safer bet than Root to bowl one over ! But I'd really like to see him tried out a bit more to see whether he can still be relied upon for a serious bowling contribution)
Pace stocks look OK : Wood Archer Curran Jordan ...perhaps Willey ? And I suppose Woakes is still around...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:I'd be picking Malan over Bairstow at three myself but one the selectors will predictably get wrong.

Malan- 48.71 with one century and seven 50's at 146
Bairstow- 26.34 with five 50's at 137

Not quite sure where the debate is there.

I'd only go Bairstow at 3, and Malan at 4, because I think Bairstow takes advantage of the powerplay fields better. Ultimately after the openers, England if they wanted, could be flexible with the whole middle order from 3 down to 7!

Too much emphasis on the powerplay rather than the overall innings for me; the earlier that Malan gets in the more time he has at the crease in top gear. If you have someone who starts slower but then accelerates it's imperative they're at the crease as early as possible, i'd even consider opening with Malan.

The past few weeks i've been racking my brains trying to understand why Malan seems to be an after thought for so many when he is currently the best T20 player England have and that includes Jos Buttler.

Gooseberry wrote:Apparently Silverwood is in talks with Rashid to get him back for the winter test games. The issues with spinners we have discussed at length, Bess being a bit tepid at home and others not having played first class for an extended period  and/or being Moeen.

Englands success in Asia has come with a strong core of wicket taking spinners. Swann and Pannesar in India and Leach, Rashid Moeen in Sri Lanka more recently.

Its far from ideal but you can see why they are looking that way. Also must be a sign that Rashids shoulder issues are fully sorted.

Parkinson's untimely shoulder injury and Mo not being near the Test side means that Dilly being looked at makes sense. Dilly, Bess and Leach would be a solid 3 spinners to take to Sri Lanka. Leach has a very good record on the recent Taunton pitches that turn big.

If Pope doesn't recover in time then it could open the door for Foakes. Buttler batted better at 6 this summer, but Foakes is the better keeper which will be important on sub-continent wickets. Both play spin well.

1.Burns
2.Sibley
3.Crawley
4.Root
5.Stokes (hopefully)
6.Buttler
7.Foakes (wk)

Being pessimistic that Pope doesn't make it, that's still a good batting lineup. 4-7 are all good players of spin. Then that top 3 have earned a run.

Bowlers wise I'd guess we will have one attacking spinner which will potentially be Dilly be the sounds of things. One holding spinner capable of bowling longer spells in either Bess or Leach.

Then 2 from the pack of seamers. I'd presume they will want the pace of Wood or Archer in the side. Then Broad will be very hard to drop from the other seamer berth.

king_carlos wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Apparently Silverwood is in talks with Rashid to get him back for the winter test games. The issues with spinners we have discussed at length, Bess being a bit tepid at home and others not having played first class for an extended period  and/or being Moeen.

Englands success in Asia has come with a strong core of wicket taking spinners. Swann and Pannesar in India and Leach, Rashid Moeen in Sri Lanka more recently.

Its far from ideal but you can see why they are looking that way. Also must be a sign that Rashids shoulder issues are fully sorted.

Parkinson's untimely shoulder injury and Mo not being near the Test side means that Dilly being looked at makes sense. Dilly, Bess and Leach would be a solid 3 spinners to take to Sri Lanka. Leach has a very good record on the recent Taunton pitches that turn big.

If Pope doesn't recover in time then it could open the door for Foakes. Buttler batted better at 6 this summer, but Foakes is the better keeper which will be important on sub-continent wickets. Both play spin well.

1.Burns
2.Sibley
3.Crawley
4.Root
5.Stokes (hopefully)
6.Buttler
7.Foakes (wk)

Being pessimistic that Pope doesn't make it, that's still a good batting lineup. 4-7 are all good players of spin. Then that top 3 have earned a run.

Bowlers wise I'd guess we will have one attacking spinner which will potentially be Dilly be the sounds of things. One holding spinner capable of bowling longer spells in either Bess or Leach.

Then 2 from the pack of seamers. I'd presume they will want the pace of Wood or Archer in the side. Then Broad will be very hard to drop from the other seamer berth.

Worth noting that Broad did not want to play in Sri Lanka last winter, but was put in the squad anyway.

Gooseberry wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Apparently Silverwood is in talks with Rashid to get him back for the winter test games. The issues with spinners we have discussed at length, Bess being a bit tepid at home and others not having played first class for an extended period  and/or being Moeen.

Englands success in Asia has come with a strong core of wicket taking spinners. Swann and Pannesar in India and Leach, Rashid Moeen in Sri Lanka more recently.

Its far from ideal but you can see why they are looking that way. Also must be a sign that Rashids shoulder issues are fully sorted.

Parkinson's untimely shoulder injury and Mo not being near the Test side means that Dilly being looked at makes sense. Dilly, Bess and Leach would be a solid 3 spinners to take to Sri Lanka. Leach has a very good record on the recent Taunton pitches that turn big.

If Pope doesn't recover in time then it could open the door for Foakes. Buttler batted better at 6 this summer, but Foakes is the better keeper which will be important on sub-continent wickets. Both play spin well.

1.Burns
2.Sibley
3.Crawley
4.Root
5.Stokes (hopefully)
6.Buttler
7.Foakes (wk)

Being pessimistic that Pope doesn't make it, that's still a good batting lineup. 4-7 are all good players of spin. Then that top 3 have earned a run.

Bowlers wise I'd guess we will have one attacking spinner which will potentially be Dilly be the sounds of things. One holding spinner capable of bowling longer spells in either Bess or Leach.

Then 2 from the pack of seamers. I'd presume they will want the pace of Wood or Archer in the side. Then Broad will be very hard to drop from the other seamer berth.

Worth noting that Broad did not want to play in Sri Lanka last winter, but was put in the squad anyway.

He might feel different after such a good return this summer though to be fair. He was looking very much like the attack leader during the Pakistan series.

I'd imagine based on how the last Sri Lanka series went Carlos, we'd be looking at a 3 spinner, one seamer + Stokes attack, rather than the two spinners + two seamers and Stokes.

Hopefully Rashid's shoulder would stand up to a red ball and white ball winter. I'd be a bit apprehensive about him playing for that fitness issue only, he's clearly amongst our best spin options if fully healthy.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I'd imagine based on how the last Sri Lanka series went Carlos, we'd be looking at a 3 spinner, one seamer + Stokes attack, rather than the two spinners + two seamers and Stokes.

Hopefully Rashid's shoulder would stand up to a red ball and white ball winter. I'd be a bit apprehensive about him playing for that fitness issue only, he's clearly amongst our best spin options if fully healthy.

I did think that but with a few of the seamer options having had injury troubles I just wonder whether they'd take the risk. Anderson, Archer and Wood have all had recent issues, Broad is 34-years old after all. Then Woakes who is probably the most reliable in that regard would arguably be the one I'd consider last in those conditions.

I also just wonder whether they'd pick all three spinners given Root being reluctant to bowl Bess at times this summer. That sort of situation where if Root had Leach and Rashid would he also want Bess. Or to phrase it differently if selecting Bess and Rashid is making them consider Leach as well, should they just replace Bess. Personally I've been impressed by Bess since his recall and I hope he gets chance on the turning wickets.

It will be interesting to see what they go for.

king_carlos wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Apparently Silverwood is in talks with Rashid to get him back for the winter test games. The issues with spinners we have discussed at length, Bess being a bit tepid at home and others not having played first class for an extended period  and/or being Moeen.

Englands success in Asia has come with a strong core of wicket taking spinners. Swann and Pannesar in India and Leach, Rashid Moeen in Sri Lanka more recently.

Its far from ideal but you can see why they are looking that way. Also must be a sign that Rashids shoulder issues are fully sorted.

Parkinson's untimely shoulder injury and Mo not being near the Test side means that Dilly being looked at makes sense. Dilly, Bess and Leach would be a solid 3 spinners to take to Sri Lanka. Leach has a very good record on the recent Taunton pitches that turn big.

If Pope doesn't recover in time then it could open the door for Foakes. Buttler batted better at 6 this summer, but Foakes is the better keeper which will be important on sub-continent wickets. Both play spin well.

1.Burns
2.Sibley
3.Crawley
4.Root
5.Stokes (hopefully)
6.Buttler
7.Foakes (wk)

Being pessimistic that Pope doesn't make it, that's still a good batting lineup. 4-7 are all good players of spin. Then that top 3 have earned a run.

Bowlers wise I'd guess we will have one attacking spinner which will potentially be Dilly be the sounds of things. One holding spinner capable of bowling longer spells in either Bess or Leach.

Then 2 from the pack of seamers. I'd presume they will want the pace of Wood or Archer in the side. Then Broad will be very hard to drop from the other seamer berth.

Worth noting that Broad did not want to play in Sri Lanka last winter, but was put in the squad anyway.

He might feel different after such a good return this summer though to be fair. He was looking very much like the attack leader during the Pakistan series.

He'd had a very successful summer and tour to SA. He specifically said , based on previous experience, it was a waste of time players like him bowling on Sri Lankan pitches.

England have won games in Sri Lanka with wickets from spinners and sharp pace, the only mid pace seamer to do well out there for them is Anderson. So if they do go with three seamers Id expect it to be Stokes and two from Wood Archer and Anderson, or possibly rest someone and give Stone or Mahmood a go. The likes of Broad, Curran, Woakes are going to struggle to threaten there.

That aside I do think their best chance is going there with 3 fit spinners which is what won them the last series there. They could desperately do with finding a first class tournament for them to play in ahead of it though, only Bess has really bowled any significant amount of red ball in the last year plus and he lacks experience overall.

The India tour comes first mind, and what happens there both in terms of individual success and workload could play a big part in selection for Sri Lanka.




In other news Roys fit for the ODIs.

Agreed that lack of time bowling is an issue for all the spinners. Particularly Leach. I know they needed injury cover in the bubble but Leach carrying drinks whilst Bess didn't get much of a bowl was a shame given he has played so little cricket for a long while.

Roy and Morgan both fit which is great news for England!

1.Bairstow
2.Roy
3.Root
4.Morgan
5.Buttler (wk)
6.Moeen
7.Woakes
8.T Curran
9.Rashid
10.Archer
11.Wood

I'd presume without Stokes they will push Mo up the order to get another bowler in. Billings or Banton at 6 would be a big vote of confidence in Mo's bowling given they'd need 10 overs from him - or a few from Root.

It must be lovely for Silverwood inheriting such a good ODI side. Mostly picks itself, ridiculous batting, lots of bowling options. Not a bad situation to inherit really!

Good to hear Roy and Morgan will be fit for the three match ODI series against the Aussies. Weather looks clear for all three games, which is a blessing in middle September. Incredible stat that England have won 11 of their last 13 ODIs against Australia, including the World Cup semi-final, though England are coming into this one off the back of a loss against Ireland.

Pitch is expected to be slow and conducive to turn, so Moeen and Rashid will both have important roles to play.

Yeah just seen that interview with Morgan, Mo might get more than one over!

I also didnt realise it was so long since Buttler, Wood and Archer had played ODIs, I had thought they might get a rest in this since they've been in the bubble almost constantly (cough Archer cough). Its a long time till the next meaningful 50 over competition but right to point to the importance of getting used to playing on spinning pitches.

Apparently Malan has been added to the reserve list, and although its highly unlikely he will play shows his stock has risen. Silverwood was gushing about him the other day. Whats not been reported so widely is that Denly lost his place as a reserve, which maybe finally means sanity is winning out.

Im assuming they will start with something close to a first choice (sans stokes) side in the first game. The top 5 pretty much picks itself. But then do they go with just 5 bowlers and have Root as the change option? Given they are talking up the importance of spin that could be a serious consideration. Would enable an extra bat between Billings and Banton to be added as a finisher.

Yep, Malan's stock has clearly risen and you'd presume his T20 efforts have gone some way to repairing his and Morgan's professional relationship after Morgan's comments last year about him not running a bye of the last ball of the innings to protect his average. He was left out in the cold a bit after that 'incident'. It will be interesting to see if Malan starts picking up more overseas T20 contracts now.

With Malan establishing himself, Banton getting opportunities and Salt in the reserves it's increasingly difficult to see how Hales ever gets back in. England would be much more likely to bend/break their decision if they desperately needed him back.

The batting talent at the top of the order really is brilliant. Players such as Hain, Bell-Drummond and Duckett who are very good white ball batsmen can't even get a mention.

Crawley and Pope have all the the shots and temperament to be very good one day players as well. They've just both played little white ball cricket in the scheme of things due to being involved with England so early in their career.

Given that Roy and Morgan are confirmed now as fit to play , I think king Carlos has the likely XI there.

Looks OK but before we get too carried away I reckon it is weaker than the World Cup final side : Moeen and Curran replacing Stokes and Plunkett have a bit to do to cover for them. If Moeen is indeed going to do a bit of bowling on a pitch that ought to assist he is probably going to be under some pressure : I suspect the Aussies might be prepared to go after him early.

Recent record says they start favourite tonight but I am not getting overconfident. Smith is surely due a score ...

I think Hales' last chance went with his comments after not getting selected for the world cup. Maybe the change of regime might've given him another shot, but with Morgan staying on theres still more than enough bad blood to keep him out of a white ball squad that already has too many batsmen.

Just noting Alfies earlier post about averages in the T20 side. Buttlers figures are very different when you look at him as an opener, 11 games at 51 with an SR of 157.7! Thats the kind of numbers that even Malan would have to not run a lot of byes to get. Zaltman had some stats that showed he was the most effective opener in the history of T20. Quite simply hes made that spot his own for the forseeable future, and all the logic of him playing down at 6 surely gets overridden by the fact hes scoring more runs at a quicker rate than anyone else as an opener. And wasn't very good as a finisher.

Im still not sure for the 50 overs games if they will go with 6 bowlers, it does leave them a desperate tail especially if it Tom over Sam. Might depend a bit on how they read the pitch, would mean put a lot of eggs in the spin basket but its also a good time to test how Mo reacts to having to bowl a lot of overs if the batsmen are getting at him.

Gooseberry wrote:I think Hales' last chance went with his comments after not getting selected for the world cup. Maybe the change of regime might've given him another shot, but with Morgan staying on theres still more than enough bad blood to keep him out of a white ball squad that already has too many batsmen.

Just noting Alfies earlier post about averages in the T20 side. Buttlers figures are very different when you look at him as an opener, 11 games at 51 with an SR of 157.7! Thats the kind of numbers that even Malan would have to not run a lot of byes to get. Zaltman had some stats that showed he was the most effective opener in the history of T20. Quite simply hes made that spot his own for the forseeable future, and all the logic of him playing down at 6 surely gets overridden by the fact hes scoring more runs at a quicker rate than anyone else as an opener. And wasn't very good as a finisher.

Im still not sure for the 50 overs games if they will go with 6 bowlers, it does leave them a desperate tail especially if it Tom over Sam. Might depend a bit on how they read the pitch, would mean put a lot of eggs in the spin basket but its also a good time to test how Mo reacts to having to bowl a lot of overs if the batsmen are getting at him.

https://twitter.com/mroller98/status/1302649129022164994

Saw this stat on Buttler as an opener too Goose (includes his franchise numbers as well).

alfie wrote:Given that Roy and Morgan are confirmed now as fit to play , I think king Carlos has the likely XI there.

Looks OK but before we get too carried away I reckon it is weaker than the World Cup final side : Moeen and Curran replacing Stokes and Plunkett have a bit to do to cover for them. If Moeen is indeed going to do a bit of bowling on a pitch that ought to assist he is probably going to be under some pressure : I suspect the Aussies might be prepared to go after him early.

Recent record says they start favourite tonight but I am not getting overconfident. Smith is surely due a score ...

Smith is due a score - but won't happen today...he's left out, knock on the head yesterday apparently.

England choose to go with Billings, Moeen as a 5th bowler and Root for a few overs if needed. And will chase!

I think that's a sensible selection, if you're picking Moeen he has to bowl otherwise it's a waste of a place; Billings more than deserves his place off the back of some good displays earlier in the summer but am surprised they went for him over Banton who seems a favourite of the selectors.

Yeah agree to a large extent Soul, they just need to trust the front 5 without Stokes. If nothing else some of them (Mo included) need to get some overs under their belts and the tail wouldve been far too long.

Billings has done as well as he ever has with the opportunities given over the past 18 months, but still feel theres a couple of younger options who couldve been considered ahead of him and maybe an eye to the future. The one worry with the 50 over side has to be how many of them will still be in their prime in 3 years time.

Smith's a huge loss for Australia (obviously!) and it knocks the balance a bit. Bowling-wise they've got a strong 30 overs coming in from Cummings/Starc/Hazlewood, but the remaining 20 are from Zampa/Maxwell/Marsh/Stoinis which looks a weak point.

Would have preferred Banton over Billings for England. Interesting to place a lot of pressure on Moeen, expecting him to bowl 10, cause you don't Root bowling a lot in this format.

Interesting to note that, excluding the Scotland game (because it wasn't a series), England haven't lost an ODI series at home since September 2015.

The problem with Billings has been his on/off use in T20's for England, I just don't think he's suited to that format where batting at 6 he has to go from the first ball, he is however a good 50 over player and should have done more with the opportunities he's been given which in that format have been limited.

Aus very much the bits and pieces operation that turned England over in the last T20, but really does look a bit lightweight without Smith. Pressure on the openers and listening to the pundits sounds like Australia know it. Might be an uncharacteristically cagey start

Apparently Morgans birthday yesterday, now 34. This must be one of the oldest sides that England have fielded in a very long time. Only Archer is under 29.

Does beg a question about the make up of the side for the next 50 over world cup. Its possible that Morgan Mo, and Rashid could keep going but they will all be pushing it. Wood will be 33 which is very much at the end of fast bowlers career unless he can reinvent himself as Plunkett did.

Obviously for now the focus is on players who will be around for the two T20 world cups and just winning the games infornt of them. But certainly post that next world cup we are likely to see the majority of the current squad at retirement age if not already past it. Even the reserves are largely in that age group, guys like Dawson, Denly, Vince and Malan no spring chickens. Be good to see the likes of the Currans, Livingstone and Parkison gets some games over the winter tours.

Great start from England. Tight from Woakes, and lethal from Archer.

Loss of Smith is huge for Aussies. Not as big an issue as in the Tests , but still leaves a big hole. At least his mini-me is there...

Extra batsman for England . So Moeen has to bowl his ten which might be interesting. Though I suppose Root can take over if he gets smashed.

Ripper from Archer to take care of Warner

Archer beginning to develop a Broad-esque record against Warner;

Bowled 73 balls to him in international cricket, Warner has scored 54 runs against him and got out 6 times in those 73 balls.

Gooseberry wrote:Apparently Morgans birthday yesterday, now 34. This must be one of the oldest sides that England have fielded in a very long time. Only Archer is under 29.

Does beg a question about the make up of the side for the next 50 over world cup. Its possible that Morgan Mo, and Rashid could keep going but they will all be pushing it. Wood will be 33 which is very much at the end of fast bowlers career unless he can reinvent himself as Plunkett did.

Obviously for now the focus is on players who will be around for the two T20 world cups and just winning the games infornt of them. But certainly post that next world cup we are likely to see the majority of the current squad at retirement age if not already past it. Even the reserves are largely in that age group, guys like Dawson, Denly, Vince and Malan no spring chickens. Be good to see the likes of the Currans, Livingstone and Parkison gets some games over the winter tours.

This had never occurred to me I must say!

I wonder if the strength of the current England ODI side might lead to a situation similar to Australia in the noughties where players with stellar domestic records would really struggle to get opportunities until later in their careers. Similar to Malan just breaking through now. Perhaps someone like Duckett might return after a long absence. Or the likes of Sam Hain and Daniel Bell-Drummond perhaps getting opportunities.

I'm a big Parkinson fan so I hope he gets fit and takes his opportunities. Mahmood is clearly rated so will keep getting chances I think.

Sam Curran intrigues me as a white ball bowler. He swings the white ball well but once that stops might have the same issues as Willey in that you don't know where to bowl the rest of his overs. I rate Willey but one thing I will say is that he tends to swing the white ball from the hand. Whereas when I've seen Sam play one day cricket with Surrey he can get the white ball to swing later, which is a rarer skill and can claim key wickets early on. He has always gone for runs in all forms, but does tend to take wickets in all forms as well. I guess it will depend on what variety England want in their attack. The old Finn or Bresnan debate from the Flower years.

I suppose I should be careful suggesting Warner is showing signs of last years Test form...he is just as likely to get a fast eighty next week. But he certainly looks to be battling against Archer at present.

Got a couple of damn good balls , to be fair !

Fairly careful start by Australia , with that early wicket ...33 off eight.

That was a heck of a ball from Archer to dismiss Warner. Love to see it.

Just about to say we could do with another wicket!

Now Wood strikes first ball, the dangerous Finch is out cheaply from a nothing shot.

43/2. Advantage firmly with the home side.

Nice start for Wood ! Finch a big wicket ...

Aussies in a spot of bother at 43/2.

Gooseberry wrote:Apparently Morgans birthday yesterday, now 34. This must be one of the oldest sides that England have fielded in a very long time. Only Archer is under 29.

Does beg a question about the make up of the side for the next 50 over world cup. Its possible that Morgan Mo, and Rashid could keep going but they will all be pushing it. Wood will be 33 which is very much at the end of fast bowlers career unless he can reinvent himself as Plunkett did.

Obviously for now the focus is on players who will be around for the two T20 world cups and just winning the games infornt of them. But certainly post that next world cup we are likely to see the majority of the current squad at retirement age if not already past it. Even the reserves are largely in that age group, guys like Dawson, Denly, Vince and Malan no spring chickens. Be good to see the likes of the Currans, Livingstone and Parkison gets some games over the winter tours.

Not too concerned about the age of the batsmen personally Goose, being in your early-mid 30's as a batter not really an issue, I think all should be fine to make it to the next World Cup, and in fact you could argue some might get better with age (Morgan's doing alright!).

Bowlers a touch more of a concern - but think you have seen they're getting some of the young lads like Mahmood, Parkinson, in and around the team and squad. Hopefully they should all make it though.

They clearly made the decision at the end of the last World Cup about these guys, and who should and wouldn't make it to the next World Cup, thus why they dispersed of Plunkett, maybe a year or two before his time, to have a look at other options.

Moeen on. Big period for him personally and the game too. Aus have tended to struggle against spinners in the mid overs, and well Moeen is Moeen.

Moeen getting first shot at the spin attack overs...

Started tidily enough. Hope he can get a good spell in tonight.

Excellent wicket for Wood, Stoinis was really outperforming the other Aussies. 3 down now puts them up against it even if the rate isnt too bad.

Yeah Stoinis had looked pretty good... At three down Australia are in need of some consolidation.
With Marsh in we might see Rashid pretty soon.

Broad's alright on comms, would be a good permanent addition once he retires.

RR's pretty decent for Australia, but three down at this stage will be a concern. Need a partnership from these two to allow Carey and Maxwell a decent platform to attack.

Lbw...review . Close ...maybe UC on impact ?

No , in fact three reds and Rashid has Labuschagne

103/4 and England on top ...

Aussies in danger of bogging down here